hang tough waiting

Thanks BK. I am doing much better. Not as high as yesterday, but still have a very good outlook. She seems better this morning in a pretty good mood when I left for work.

Now that I have a better perspective I think I will be able to concentrate on trying to be more creative on meeting at least 2 of her top 4 needs. Conversation and Honesty/Openness. Of course no creativity needed for HO.

I will have to be very very creative with Affection and SF since she wants nothing to do with either. I am not sure that is even possible <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but would sure like to try. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I leave to go to South Dakota next week Pheasant hunting for 4 days. I would love to get some kind of response from her before I leave but I know that might be asking too much too soon.

God is Good and I Praise Him for giving me strength to make it this far. Thanks guys for all you do. These boards are as important if not more so than the MC and MB counseling with SH. It truly is a Godsend to have special people such as yourselves willing to give up your time to help a fellow BS or WS. What a community.

One of my favorite verses! I like that you are using this scripture right now; it is very powerful in fighting adultery.

I think that she believes that there is empowerment in victimhood. But instead it has kept her down all these long years. If she allows someone to prevent her from "being herself," then she is not a victim, but a volunteer, because no one but she has the power to be herself.

She is the one with the power in her hands. And as her Big Poppa Daddy, you are hereby bequeathing back to her the power to "be herself." Just give her back the power, waiting. Tell her it all hers to be herself or whoever ****** she wants to be. She can be Puff Daddy if she wants! She has that freedom! From this day forward, she has the power!

Now, I want to know how long she has been manipulating you with this inappropriate guilt? And, does the MC recognize that she is shifting blame for her choices to you?

I see I am a day late and a dollar short and just read your post about the MC. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I am so glad you feel relieved. Do you think it is because it has been such a burden being responsible for her moods and happiness all these years? I think you said earlier that you had felt you were a hostage to her moods. And you know what, there truly is empowerment is taking responsibility for oneself so I bet she benefits from your new approach. She will feel more in control and less resentful of you.

Well Mel,

To be bluntly honest I have felt burdened and guilty by her moods. She actually transfers is to our children too, but I have not noticed it until now.

Just about the time you responded to my post she came into my office and tried to small talk with me. I knew she had this wild look on her face. More in her eyes. It is almost like an animal looks when they are fearful and angry at the same time. She told me she does not want to SH tomorrow in our session. I asked her if that meant tomorrow as in tomorrow or SH anymore.

She said she did not want to talk to him period and did not want to do what SH and I was telling her she had to do. I asked for clarification on what I was making her do and she said she could not do Affection or SF without feelings and was not going to. She doesn't believe it will work. I reminded her that I have not asked her to do anything and also that SH used the example of training for a 10K road race. If you are out of shape you don't go out and run a 10K the first day (ie SF) you go out and do what you can do, walk 1/2 mile or run a 1/4 mile or 100 yds (ie hand holding, kiss goodbye in the morning or something similar) Then work you way up to the 10K.

She said she is tired of butting her head against a wall doing things that are not working. I asked her to tell me what she has done of my Top 4 EN's that she has butted her head against the wall on. She said she has been honest (ooooouuu her honesty comes in the form of non caring hurtful things toward me she does not want to do) Boy that really is meeting my EN. And she says we have recreated together. (wow, we have watched some football on tv together with the kids).

She says to do A or SF without feelings and when she does not want to violates the Honesty/Openness part.

She also says our sitch is different in that her heart is like stone. I told her it is not because I see her interact with the kids. Same heart.

I did not try and talk her into talking with SH but I did push her on what her goal was. At 1st she said is was to feel peace inside and not hurt anymore. I asked her how have I caused her to not have peace. She could not come up with a good answer.

I asked her if she wanted a happy marriage with me. She said she would like to think that is possible. I asked her again, do you want a happy marriage with me. She said yes it would be better for all concerned, her, me the kids and everyone.

I then asked her what her plan was to have feelings for me if she was not going to follow the MB principles. She said she did not know, but she was not going to do A and SF if she had no feelings. She wanted to know if she said ok, lets go home and have sex right now, what would I do. I told her I would not do it because I am not in the mood at the moment. She says she is the same way but she wants intimacy before sex. I said I understand that and that is why you start slow and do what you can.

She is just really hung up on A and SF. I then asked if she was comparing me to someone else and of course she says no, none of this is about anyone else. I then asked if that meant we were going to quit going to our other MC, and she cocked her head with a sh*t eating grin and said no. I asked why, and she said because Lorie (our MC) is not telling her to do something she does not want to do. She is telling her to be honest with everyone.

I told her I was going to go ahead and talk to SH because it is paid for at the moment and I am at least going to try to do what he suggest. The program is world renowned for its success. She says he is telling us what we want to hear. I told her he has not told me anything I wanted to year yet. To be perfectly honest everything I have heard is pretty difficult to listen to. It shows me how far off base I have been.

I really felt like crying, but I did not. I keep telling myself, don't cry, don't beg and I did not. I am sure I looked very disappointed but I did not beg her to talk to SH.

I really do not know where this is going. I don't know if the OM is still in the picture and that is her hangup or she is just so darn stubborn and has read too much from the Oprah magazine and watched too much Oprah on TV and read too many relationship articles. I really don't know. I do know this, that the wife that was smart, reasonable, had plenty of common sense and would never hurt anyone has turned into a careless, selfish, self centered, irrational woman. I know the same good in her is still there because I see it with other people, but it is just not there for me at the moment.

Phil 4:13, Phil 4:13, Phil 4:13

God give me the strength today for my load is heavy.


PS Earlier this morning I asked if she was coming to church and she quickly said nope.

waiting, don't let this alarm you. SH can still guide you through this without her participation. Let him assess this development and tell you how to proceed. It is not unusual for recovery to go up and down, up and down, it usually is NEVER easy.

This development might be much better than having her go through the motions pretending to work the program and then blaming you for her decision. It's better for her to take accountability for her actions than blame you. I am sure SH will have lots to say on this.

But don't despair, waiting, this is never easy. You will have good days and bad days.

Thanks for offering the encouragment.

I forgot to mentin this tidbit of info.

Oh she told me she did not see how doing A or SF without feelings was going to make her feel any better. I told her it was not for her. It was for me. She really did not like that. I told her the 4 things I was supposed to do was to help her have feelings for me. I knew I might be able to do 3 of the 4 since SF is totally out of the picture at the moment but I was going to keep trying 1-3. C, HO, A.

At the end of our debate, conversation or whatever it was, I told her I was going to continue the program and talk to SH and try to learn more and be a better husband. I then told her hopefully the things I do will give her some feelings before I loose my feelings for her.

The conversation pretty much ended and she left the office. She went to her grandmothers to help with her Christmas decorations and I called her a few minutes later and she went to the local park and cried it out in the car she said. I did not ask anything or ask her for anything. I also reminded her in a text message that for her to remember I did not ask her nor tell her what she was going to do, I was just asking for information.

I do hope SH has something up his sleeve for me.

You know...I'd tell her to just quit worrying about SF for now. Tell her that you're not worried about that either. At this point, it would simply be nice if she'd hold hands with you...even if she didn't feel like it. An occasional hug, a kiss on the cheek...small things.

Tell her that worrying about SF is the last thing she needs to do. It will happen when/if it happens. Right now, just show you the same kind of physical affection that she would show her mom, the kids, etc...

Between us, that IS the basics to start with. First, you have to be allowed back 'in her space'. She has to get comfortable with the idea of allowing you within her personal space again. The occasional non-threatening hug, the holding hands, etc...these little things will get her accustomed to that. Once these begin to become a little more natural for her, things can progress from there...but don't tell her that.

It's like courtship all over again. When you first started dating, you had to work up the courage to get within her space. So you'd touch her shoulder, brush her hair back, etc... And she would subtly let you know that it was ok for you to do so, by not reacting negatively to it. This is where the two of you have to start again.

I had to do the same with my wife after her EA. Slowly getting into her space in ways that were non-threatening. Finally get to where she'd let me touch her hair, neck, face, etc... When she was really crying hard she got to where I could hold her. Then finally one evening she was complaining about how bad her back felt from sleeping on the couch...so I got some lotion and massaged her back. NOTHING else...although I could tell that my massage was getting to her in that way. A few days later, the same thing...only this time it did get more personal. But still not SF. That took a good while to work up to.

Basically, this is the info you need. SHE needs to feel less threatened by the SF thing...so take it off the plate now, and simply work on OTHER means of physical affection. SF will follow once she has relaxed enough to allow some of those feelings to return.

And as far as her feeling all of this pressure...ask her to simply stop worrying about it. There is no reason for her to be stressed out over all of this...all she needs to do is to RELAX, and stop fretting over what she does and doesn't feel. She needs to just relax, learn to spend time with you and the kids again, and let the feelings either come on their own, or not. And quit worrying about it right now.

My thoughts at least...hope they help.

I can't get over this feeling that she is hiding something. Do you sense this, waiting?

I haven't read the entire thread but the last few posts indicate there's a great internal struggle. Seems like this BS is doing good at confusing the WS. All that anger the WS has at the BS is because the BS is undermining the A.

Any WS who says they won't have an A or SF is babbling. Pure BS babble.

Waiting has done well in his retorts to the WS. He needs to keep his appointment with Steve and set a plan for himself and his family. No plans for the WS, except to keep his family safe from her backlashes and outbreaks. He needs to expect that it will happen.

He is doing good and glad to see is having good support. Keep up the good work, Mel.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks, Orchid.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes Mel I have felt the same way and have done everything I can to try to figure it out.

She may be hiding that she plans on leaving after Christmas, I don't have any proof of that nor do I see her making any plans.

She may be hiding that they actually did have sex and does not have the courage to tell me, once again I have no proof and everytime I bring it up she denies it completely.

She may be hiding that she is still in contact with OM. Of course she denies that and says this is about her feelings for me and nobody else.

I don't know. It may be that she is not and I am just paranoid. Who the h3ll knows these days.



Owl,

I have and mentioned that this morning but she even says the A would be a lie and she does not want to lie.

Orchid,

I plan on keeping my appt with SH. That is the only thing I know to do.

Thanks guys.

I must admit and I having a hard time finding my stronger self. I haven't given up, but this put me in a real downer funk at the moment. Makes me feel sad again. Even though I knew something like this would occur the pain is still here. (point at my heart).

Thanks a million guys. I don't know where I would be without all of you.

waitingonlove,


So...She feels like she is lieing if she shows you affection and SF, because she doesn't feel it in her heart. Or she likes to play games with your head, and have you chase after her.

I wouldn't even try anymore, just wait for her to come to you. You can't make someone want you. You've said enough. But in time you will know if it's just a game she is playing, when she finds you giving up the chase, and hopefully then she will come to you.

I guess all you can do is work on the other needs until then.

It looks like you have been waitingonlove for a long time...hopefully not much longer.

Lady

Thanks Lady

I don't think it is about games. I do think it is about her and her being her own boss so to speak. It is definately all about her at the moment. I don't think she really cares if I quit trying to meet any EN's at this point. Well I guess that isn't true. If I were to quit bringing home a paycheck or doing stuff for the kids or something like that she wouldn't like it, but as far as A, SF, RC, she could care less.

But I am going to keep on trying to chip away at her granite heart.

Waiting,
I have followed your thread since day one when I encouraged you to move to this forum. You have done very well my friend.
One piece of advice.....take it for what its worth. I would stop asking her about contact or any other details. Go completely stealth. If she is in contact she is not going to tell you. I totally believe that stealth is the way to go so that you know your enemy.
In my early days before I found MB I was way too inquisitive. I was not going to get the honesty at that point. If I had it to do all over again I would not have driven the A underground by not being covert in my actions.
Other than that I think you are doing great. You have a chance. And a chance is all that a bs can expect at this point.

Blessings to you!

I wonder what would happen if you stopped bringing home a paycheck because "your heart wasn't into it?" That would be ok, wouldn't it?

Mel is allsome! Keep listening closely to her! She KNOWS the enemy!

Thanks Texas! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I wonder what would happen if you stopped bringing home a paycheck because "your heart wasn't into it?"

LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That's an excellent point Melody...I think waitingonlove should relay that one onto his wife.
Maybe she needs some good old 180 stuff too...!

Lady

I would think she would be pretty ticked off rather than being apathetic that I did not bring home a paycheck.