waiting, it is time to have a serious heart to heart with her. You need to ask her why she is sleeping in the other room and if she realizes how hurtful it is to you. It sends a troubling message to your children and is disrespectful to you. Part of radical honesty is telling her how you feel when she is cruel and thoughtless.

I would ask her what she intends on doing to repair the damage in your marriage from the affair. What is her plan? Because the things that she is doing is eroding your feelings for her and harming the marriage. As I said before, with freedom comes responsibility, and she can't expect to have all the benefits of a married woman while she carries on like a single woman with no husband and no children. When you told her she had the "freedom" to do leave, you never meant that you would tolerate the freedom to be hurtful and thoughtless to you.

Waitingonlove

I'm going to advise a little bit of restraint.

If you really feel that you need to have a discussion to 'clear the air' then, before you wade into the discussion (and get tempted into a bunch of DJ's and SD's) have a plan in place for what you're trying to accomplish with the discussion.

You see, I'm worried that your 'unstated goal' of this discussion is to 1.) tell your wife how much she's hurting you and 2.) ferret out of her some apology or plan to make things better for you. I just see this heading towards LB land at an alarming pace.

Consider a few things before you have this discussion:

- Telling her how you feel about her actions last night is likely to make her very defensive because there's really nothing she's going to be able to do to UNDO what's happened. The best time for that discussion would have been BEFORE she went and while she still had a chance to modify her behavior to take into account how you felt about it.

She's probably going to feel as though you are trying very hard to lay a guilt trip on her that she can't escape or that you are lurking around waiting to shout AHA!!! I CAUGHT you doing something WRONG and now I want to punish you for it!!! Now, I'm not saying that IS what you're doing (of course) and I'm certainly not trying to minimize your pain at all. I'm just trying to alert you to what is very likely going to be going on in her head regarding the conversation.

And, let me normalize this for you a little bit. As I've mentioned, I've not dealt with infidelity (so if you want me off the thread because of my lack of experience, just ask <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) but I know that in my relationship if my H or I would do something like that - say go somewhere - even if something was said before hand, then be called to the carpet because of it in much stronger terms (like move out if that's what you're going to be doing) then neither one of us would appreciate it very much and we'd be very defensive. And, this is without infidelity!

Now, this doesn't mean that you can't express your feelings but be very, very careful to keep it about you and not about disrespectful judgements about her. Telling her she's not acting like a 'wife should' is a very disrespectful judgement towards her. Telling her your feelings are hurt and YOU are sad about what happened last night is sharing your feelings. Also, if you have something you'd like her to do to soothe your feelings, then tell her what that is but be very careful not to make it something that's impossible like - her not having gone in the first place or her changing her mind about whether or not she should have gone (DJ territory). It might be her not going to such events in the future if you think she'll agree to that but I think that's unlikely at this point. If I were you, I'd leave it at a boundary where YOU will communicate more strongly things that hurt you BEFORE she does them in the future - ie if this is a 'move out issue' tell her that BEFORE she goes. Give her the information prior to her making the decision.

- After a barrage of your hurt emotions, she's going to be in a defensive state of mind and is NOT going to want to enter into negotiations. Anything you ask of her at that time is likely to come across as a Selfish Demand. Think about it. If the first part of the conversation is "THIS IS HOW YOU HURT ME!!" then you start trying to negotiate, she's going to feel as though you are trying to manipulate her.

True negotiations have both parties as EQUALS in the conversation. If she's feeling 'dressed down' or 'chastised' she can't come into the negotation as an equal party. If you are trying to impose your way on her without allowing her to come to the table as an equal 1.) it won't work and 2.) that's not called negotation and 3.) it's a huge LB.

So, I suggest you pick one goal of the two. Either go into the conversation with the intent of revealing your feelings in a non-judgemental, non-LBing way or go into the conversation with the intent to negotiate better terms. Don't try to do both in the same conversation! I suggest you pick the first one. Clear the air about your emotional state. Then, disengage, and give her TIME to come to the negotiating table with a list of HER WANTS so that when you sit down to figure out what to do about the issues she's equally represented and has some buy in. She might agree to do it your way if you do it all at once, but until she's getting something of equal or greater value to her in her own mind then she probably won't stick to it AND she'll resent you for 'making' her agree to something she never wanted to do in the first place.

As much as you might be "right" in this and what you're asking for, that doesn't mean that imposing that on her or demanding that she do it is going to work now anymore than it has for the last few months.

Just my $.02.

Mys

mys, good ideas! I don't think he should use any lovebusters in his conversation, however, being honest about his feelings and his boundaries are not inherent lovebusters. It is not a selfish demand or a dj to state that going out alone is not condusive to marital recovery.

The goal is not to punish her or exact an apology [after all, he did agree to this!] but to redefine some sadly defined boundaries that have been pushed out of all recognition resulting in an appalling lack of respect. I do agree that this should have been addressed before she went out alone, but it wasn't. Unfortunately, I think he has contributed to her sense of entitlement by sitting silent while she treated him disrespectfully.

Being honest about his feelings and boundaries are of vital importance! In fact, it's a LB (dishonesty) NOT to be honest.

But, his boundaries can only be about HIS behavior. His boundaries can't be about what SHE DOES because he has no control over what she does. He needs to decide what types of actions he wants to take when <whatever> happens. But, he can never decide for her what actions she gets to take (wouldn't it be nice if he could? Ah well.).


No, but it's also not going to go anywhere. At worst, it's trying to 'educate' her which can be a lovebuster in it's own way. At best, it's just a vague statement. The only way it becomes NOT vague is to send it INTO SD territory by saying "... and therefore you SHOULDN'T... " which isn't much help.

Perhaps a better way to frame it would be something like: I'm not going to be able to recover in this marriage if you continue to go out alone. So, if that's what you choose to do, then I'm going to choose to <actions> in order to protect my <feelings, love for you>.

Make it about him, his feelings and HIS ACTIONS.


I agree. It's just that I don't see that he has those boundaries clearly defined going into the conversation (maybe I'm wrong) and that worries me a bit. It's an emotional conversation. The best strategy is to have what he wants to accomplish clearly defined FIRST rather than wading in unprepared - which is just tempting LB's. (I'm not saying that to cast aspersions on you, waitingonlove, ANYONE would have that problem.. it's just being human.)


Yep, and there's not use trying to lock the barn door after it's all ready burned down. Learn from it and move on...


.. by choosing not to remain silent anymore in the future.

Mys

Mel, BK and Lady,

I have read all your posts and 24 hours from last night the pain is less. Lady I do think I need to let her know what I think about her sleeping in the other bedroom for our boys sake. I don't think it will make a difference to her though.

She has maintained that I have been controlling and overprotective. I really do not see that. I do see that over the years I have been brow beated into thinkng that I am controlling and overprotective, when in fact, I have been responding (probably with LB techniques) to her independent behavior. That has been a negative on our relationship and probably is why I have been so resentful of her horse show hobby. I saw it as independent behavior amoung other things.

I never saw myself as being (pardon me lady's) henpecked but I have been. That has probably made me feel less than a man and angry and then I would LB.

I have to let her know but in a way that is not LBing. I plan on studing the last several posts to me quit a bit to learn new techniques in communication with her.

Thanks.

Myschae

I really do appreciate your contribution this morning. I read all the posts early this morning but have been unable to repsond until now.

1st let me say. Please do not leave my thread. Your information has been very helpful. Reading between you and Mel has given me some new insight.

I am afraid I would have entered into DJ had I said something last night. I do need o learn to keep it about me and my hurt rather than her.

I should have said something before. I have just been conditioned to be afraid to tell her the truth about how I feel because I have come to believe something is wrong with my feelings all along. When I look back at her fathers behavior over the years with how he treated his wife, it is identical to my wifes. And in fact his wifes ( MY MIL) would do exactly like me. Not say anything before, but gripe later about it and LB to my FIL.

My gosh, I wish I learned all this before now. There should be a course that we should take before marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BK,

Your the best. I realize there is probably nothing I can do about her sleeping in the other bedroom, but I do think it is a bad idea for the boys to see.

The most important comment you made to me was what would SH say. I plan on asking him on my next appointment.

Tonight she is pretty withdrawn and quit. I wish everyone could see, but she lays down in our chair across the den and basically hides behind a pillow. I can't see her face at all the way she is lying. It is like she wants to be seperate but together.

We are in the same room bu not communicating at all. That is why I am on the laptop. She is not even aware I am typing and reading. I am so sad that we living like this.

Ladysheep,

Do you really think she will come around? Do you really think she loves me and is just "paying me back"?

I considered all that was mentioned to me this weekend about what I should tell her, not tell her, avoid doing and all. It was a lot to consider and non of it seemed easy. Well the easy thing would have been to do nothing, but that would have accomplished absolutely nothing at all.

I did not mention anything during the day at all. Timing was either not right as we were finishing our tree or the kids were around.

Last night as we were getting ready to go to bed my wife passed through the bedroom and said good night as she walked past the bed. I asked her to come back in so I could talk to her. She sat down on the bed. I took a deep breath and just started. I asked her if she was sleeping in the other bedroom and she said yes. I told her I was very hurt by that and was also concerned at what it was teaching our sons. I told her that my Grandmother and Grandfather slept in different bedrooms and as a child that was very disturbing to me and I am sure our children feel the same way.

I asked her how long she thought she was going to do it. She said she did not know and did not have a time table but she needed to get some sleep. I told her I understood but what was it about sleeping in bed with me that made her not sleep. I told her I did not want anything or even to touch her, but I was just wondering. She said it was difficult because she would lay there and think about us and feel guilty and not sleep. By being in the other room she did not think about it as is able to sleep. I don't expect tonight to be much different. I told her I was not looking forward to going out of town Tuesday night till Sunday. She asked why and I told her I would prefer to stay here and work on our marriage but I had to go. (It is a hunting trip out west with 3 other guys and I am kinda in charge of it and can't miss it) She said she understood.

I told her just remember I am not asking or telling her what to do, I just wanted to let her know I was hurt and concerned about the kids. She said she did not want to hurt me and again said she was not mad at me anymore. I told her I was glad she was not mad. We said good night and she asked if I wanted the light out. I told her no, I was going to read and not sleep for a little while. She walked on the other side of the bed and reached to give me a hug. It was more of a comforting hug she offered, nothing romantic, but it did feel good. No kissing or talking just a hug. It felt good to have some physical touch. We said good night again and she left the room.

This morning I got up to wake the boys and take care of the puppy and get breakfast ready. When I came back upstairs she was in our bed. I believe it was more because our oldest son uses that bedroom to get ready in the morning, but she was in the bed. I brought the puppy upstairs and in bed with us. We talked about the puppy for a little while and she asked me if I wanted her to hold the pup while I showered.

After that the morning was pretty routine. No relationship talk. No affection, but civil and talkative sort of. I took the kids to school and drove to the office.

She is here now and we both are just doing what we do at work.

I know the above does not mean much, but at least it is something. I hope while I am gone she will have some things to think about.

I just had 2 conversations with wife. The last one was the most gut wrenching.

1st Conv: She wanted to have relationship talk again and to save space and fewer details, it was WS Babble mostly. Said she was still miserable, unhappy, blah blah blah. I felt like Peppermint Patty at school listening to it, I have heard it so much. I Reverse Babble with her. I am actually starting to get the hang of it. It is amazing to see her reaction. It is like this look of "what the heck just happened here" from her. I think she expects me to cry, be sad, beg or something.

You will love this one. She said and I quote, "I don't think God ever intended on anyone living like this everyday" (duh) My response was and I quote, "Your right, God never intended on anyone living like this". Silence for about 30 seconds.

She asked about Recreational Ques. that SH wanted us to complete. I then directed her to the website and she pulled it up and printed it and started completing it. Then she talked some more. She said she did not intend on doing any of it. I asked her was she know going to do anything the rest of her life. I felt like she would. She said well obviously she would do something for fun, but she just could not see us doing anything together. She said we did not do anything all weekend together. I then asked her whose fault was that. I am willing anytime to do something. She smarted off and said that "weaving and canasta" were hardly substitutes for horse shows. I did not respond at all.

She then acknowledged she is not putting anything into our relationship. She said she did not want to do anything with me. I told her that hurt and I knew that. It hurt me when she did not want me to go to the wedding Saturday or her parents party. She said she was sorry and was not trying to hurt me. I told her she is not trying to avoid it either.

She told me she didn't think I wanted a wife that was this miserable everyday. I told her she was right and one more thing, I did not intend of having a wife long term that was this way. (her reply and expression was priceless) She said " I don't blame you."
She said what I told her Friday for powerful. What I told her is it was her decision to make. I had already made mine. Mine was to work on the marriage. She said she knew she was not working on anything and was not. She says the way she sees it is she has 3 options. Choose to not be unhappy by working on the marriage and trying to have feelings, Choose to stay unhappy, not work on the marriage and fake it and stay married or Choose to not work on the marriage and leave. I said "Yep, you have choices."

That was pretty much the end of the conversation. She went about completing the rest of the form.

Then a few minutes later as she was leaving my office, she came in shut the door and wanted to have relationship talk again. Once again, Blah, Blah Blah, nothing really significant until she was about to leave.

She almost walked out and then turned around and came back in and said she needed to be honest with me about something and not hold it in anymore. I asked her what, She told me she went to see an Attorney about 3 weeks ago. I asked her who and it was someone she found on the Internet and out of town. I asked her why out of town. "This is very important too me, let me know what you think thought"

She said it would have been all over town if she went to someone local and she did not want to do that in case we worked things out. HUMMMM? Very interesting.

I asked her how she felt about it and how much did it cost her. She said it made her sick to her stomach and sad and she did not feel good about it at all. I asked her why she went and she said she wanted to know how the process went. She also said that she thought it was only fair for me to know that she had thought about that and filing for divorce. I told her I was not surprised by that, but I am surprised about where she went to someone she did not know. She told me the atty told her the process about the Sheriff serving the papers and all. She did not want anything like that. She also said she told him she had a brother and sister that went through and divorce and had to go to court and have a judge decide everything and she hoped that we could work those things out without court. The attorney told her that was a pipe dream and just not possible and would most likely not happen. ( I told her good, he is right, I don't do divorce, I do marriage and she can put that in her peace pipe and smoke on it awhile) She seemed disappointed but surprised. I guess she thought she would be able to p*****y whip me into what she wanted. (sorry Lady's, my apology for previous statement <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

I told her that I was glad she was honest with me. (She had said she knew she should tell me if we are going to work things out by being honest) ( On one hand she is saying she does not want to try and on the other hand she makes a statement like that and completes a questionnaire) I reminded her it is her choice to make, not mine, I have made my choice. She said she did not want to be the one that quit and then she caught herself and said, but I guess that is what I am doing. Standing flatfooted and being stubborn. I did tell her while I was glad she told me that her timing stinks. She seems to always bring stuff up and the worst time. I stand to go out of town for the week and she lays this brick on me. I tell her this and she slumps and lowers her head and says she did not think about that and was very sorry. She did not mean to do that and hurt me and have bad timing. I just said "whatever", more slumping and head lowering.

She said, it is my choice to make. (babble but potentially useful info also) I said, It is your choice to make. (reverse babble. that one was easy)

She said, "I guess I just need an internal overhaul inside". I said, "I won't touch that statement with a 10 foot pole" She said, oh yea, that would be stupid, sorry about that.

Then she got up and left and as she was walking out the door, she said, Hey, one positive. She did not cry and I did not either. I said yep., that is a positive.

That is my story for today so far. Is this progress that she told me?

What do you vets think?

I really need some good feedback for tonight and before I leave?

Oh yea, One thing I left out and this is very painful to admit, but I have come to the conclusion the my WW is dishonest and a liar. No other way to put it. I can hear you guys laughing at me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> now, go ahead, I can take the bwahauhahahhha's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but it is like I have become a new person at accepting things. Before I knew it but just would convince myself otherwise, that she is my soul mate, best friend, total confidant, etc.....

It may have been true at one point, but now, it is not true. I would like to think that somewhere inside her an honest person lives, but at the moment, I can't see it. Hey, I sound like her now. Get it, at the moment I can't see it. That was she says about us.

Also, I am fully prepared to find out later that NC has been broken and the EA/PA was more than kissing and hand holding. I have nothing to prove otherwise, but it would not surprise me in the least at this point. Also, BTW, when she spilled the beans about wanting to come clean on the attorney thing I asked her several times, was there anything else she wanted to come clean about or get off her chest. She immediately told me no she has not contacted anyone, this is not about anybody else, blah blah blah. I said, OK are your sure there is nothing else. She said no again and she knew I was referring to the sex question.

It just pains me to have to admit, but I guess that is healthy for me.

Wow, that was an awesome breakthrough! Now we know what she was hiding. I really felt that she was keeping some secret from you and I bet this is it. This is good news. You can deal with the truth, but when you don't know what she is thinking, it is hopeless.

You did VERY GOOD by reinforcing to her that you WILL NOT make it easy for her to divorce you.

Now, I think you should focus on changing this terrible image she has of you. She views you as a mean ole daddy whose mission in life is to spoil her fun. I think you have started to change this image by reminding her that she is not a kid but a grown woman who is fully responsible for her own choices.

I think this is one of the more promising developments I have seen so far, waiting. She is confused and on the fence, but she is leaning over towards you as you can see. She says one thing out of one side of her mouth and then says the opposite.

I would reemphasize to her how very hurtful it is for her to sleep in the guest room.

Thanks Mel,

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully that is the only thing she is holding back, but like I said, I am trying my best to be prepared for more.

I will say that tonight about the other bedroom. I leave to go out of town tommorow evening. Hopefully there will be a hug or something. If it happens I will try and update you guys from the airport tommorow evening.

I hope she has fun while I am gone being taxi driver and single parent while I am gone. Hopefully everything will be hectic for her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Something I am thinking about but not sure I should do.

I am seriously thinking about telling her something like this statement.

I am going out of town tommorow night, and will be back Sunday. I am going to tell her I want to talk to the boys while I am gone, but I don't know if I want to talk to her because it is too painful.

Also, knowing this is Christmas time and she may be thinking, (I need to at least gut it out till after Christmas), I am thinking about telling her to either be ready to move out when I get back from my trip Sunday or be committed to working on the marriage because right now her not staying is hurting me and the kids way too much.

I can take it(her behavior) at the moment and I have not lost love for her, in fact I still love her very much, but I am developing resentment at the moment and I know that is the precusor to lost love feelings.

Is it time for Plan B is what I am thinking? I am not sure. I know I may be jumping the gun a bit with the latest developments but I was wondering if anyone thought the trip (time alone to think things through) combined with the Holidays as a crowbar.

Is this a gamble and not a plan B. I only want to do a MB plan. I am also conserned about not doing something SH would recommend but I would love to have your thoughts.

My thoughts are this. Do I appear to her tp be someone sure of myself? Is that appealing to her? I am not controlling her. She has been given a choice even though I am giving her a timetable. One thing is for sure. She is not sure of herself or she would have jumped off the fence and left a long time ago.

Would taking the deal off the table off the table work? Deal being working on our marriage.

I am just seeking some guidence. Not sure I am ready for this or even if the timing is right, but I am curious as to what others have to say.

I believe it was more because our oldest son uses that bedroom to get ready in the morning, but she was in the bed.

Also, BTW, when she spilled the beans about wanting to come clean on the attorney thing I asked her several times, was there anything else she wanted to come clean about or get off her chest. She immediately told me no she has not contacted anyone, this is not about anybody else, blah blah blah. I said, OK are your sure there is nothing else. She said no again and she knew I was referring to the sex question.


She said she did not want to be the one that quit and then she caught herself and said, but I guess that is what I am doing. Standing flatfooted and being stubborn. I did tell her while I was glad she told me that her timing stinks.

Yes...I agree these are some great breakthroughs waiting, but you're right, the timing stinks, it shoulda been sooner.
But...it just had to be today.

And her doing the questionaire was good too!

I wouldn't think of plan B yet. See what she is like when you get home.

Have a good work trip, enjoy it while you can! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

I would not do this. A good Plan A is critical to a successful Plan B and you are not yet there. First off, she might take you up on it and you are not at the point where you need to go into Plan B yet. You don't want her to take you up on that right now when she is still so detached. You must stay in Plan A a little while longer.

I know you don't see it, waiting, but some really good things are happening here in the way you communicate with each other. She has run over you on certain things and manipulated you with guilt on others. She then blamed you for her choices. That dynamic needs to be allowed to change because I think it is what has led to alot of conflict in your marriage. I see her changing, I see you putting down boundaries and it is all very new.


I don't believe this. Do you really mean this or are you saying it to get a reaction?

Do not Plan B until SH tells you it is time. From my observations he will tell you to continue Plan A until you are absolutely ready and convinced yourself it is time for Plan B. Besides with the above statement I think she is finally getting it...that recovery is a choice...that Love is a verb. Combine her statement above with this statement:


And I think you've got her heading in the right direction...finally. She is understanding that for it to work both parties have to "try" and she is internalizing that she is the "quiter" here. She can see your calmness...that you are no longer trying to force or "guilt" recovery. It's here choice...her time to sh|t or get off the pot!!!


You are in Plan A meeting her top 3 needs whenever and however you can. I presume communication is a top need as well as or in the alternative honesty. You should not hammer her/guilt her for ever communicating with you...despite the timing. There is no time like the present for all communication. When a WW wants/needs to talk you must be ready to listen. Catch her internal withdrawal roller coaster whenever and whereever it's ready to work out some things with you. Don't try to concentrate to much on the reverse babble. Sometimes the best reverse babble is simple...like "yes, dear that's interesting" or "mmmmm, I'll have to think about that" then turn the conversation back to her so she can babble some more. The more she talks and you actively listen the more Love Bank deposits you make...regardless of the quality of the information exchanged.

BTW, the information about seeing an attorney was not that shocking...plenty of WW and BS seek attorney counsel to figure out their positions. I was a BS (and I am an attorney - albeit tax attorney) and I went to a divorce attorney a couple days after D-Day just to get a handle on my position. It would be interesting to know if she retained him with a deposit, paid for the consultation or just got a 1 hour free consultation. If she retained him/her than she may have been preparing documents. But it is really irrelevant to your attempts to recover your marriage. It is her choice that you can't control so forget about it.



I've used this statement in the past and it is completely inappropriate for a marital relationship. Very disrespectful. It was a LB for sure. You were beating her down as a follow up to punishing her for her so-called bad timing. I am glad you told her you appreciated the honesty but the information obviously got under your skin and you REACTED to the information. Try to keep your emotions under control. Remember to...ACT, DON'T REACT. Plan A.

I hope you can possible have some good late night phone calls with your wife while you are out of town. Though hunting with the guys might not facilitate that. Sometimes the phone can give the WW some distance and safety to open up a little. You can try. However, really try to enjoy yourself. You need a break from this and the MB plan is very much about your own personal recovery. What better way for you to recharge you brain than by relaxing and sharing time with friends. You can't change anything at home so have fun and make certain WW does not think you spent the whole week analyzing your marriage. As a forewarning...Don't blame her for ruining your weekend...that would be your choice.

Mr. Wondering

Lady

Thanks so much for your thoughts. After reading your post along with Mel and Mr. Wonderings I aggree that I am not ready for Plan B and I did not feel good about doing it if I had recieved positive feedback on it. I am very glad she did the questionaire.

Thanks for taking the time to let me know what you thought again.

WOL

BTW,

You are not planning on discussing your situation with your buddies are you????

I know I talked to way to many people about my problem last spring but mostly that was cause I felt so alone (I failed to post here and get support/advice).

I suggest you let your friends be your friends. They have no power to change your situation and contact with them may be compromised in the future as your recommited wife may feel uncomfortable around them.

Let us be your support for now.

Mr. Wondering (not Wonderings) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mel ,

You are so right. After I wrote this and had time to think about it, I was wanting to take control and "show her" the new self confident self, but that was the wrong way to do it that could have backfired and I think she might have taken me up on it.

She has blamed me for her choices and I have LB'd because I did not give her upfront information prior to her doing something that I knew was going to be a LB for me. I was afraid of upsetting the apple cart. I am doing much better. Tonight as I was packing I came upstairs and she had already gone to bed without telling me goodnight. I went in the guest bedroom and she was in there trying to sleep.

I asked her if she was sleeping in here (guest bedroom). She said yes. I told her that was very hurtful for me. She said she was sorry. I said ok, good night and started to walk out of the bedroom. I turned and told her, you know I love you. (Nothing needy, just to reassure her)

As I was leaving the room she called my name and asked me to come over to the bed. As I got close to the bed she opened her arms and said, will I come here and give her a hug. I leaned over the bed and she hugged me at length. Rubbed my back and my hair and kissed me on the jaw and I kissed her on the hair. She kinda chuckled, rubbed my shoulder and called me scruffy and my face tickled her. (I have not shaved for my trip for several days, I is 18 below zero where I am going in South Dakota). Any, I hugged her one final time told her I love her one more time and then told her good night and walked out.



Mel you are right. I was not saying it for a reaction out of you guys or her. After thinking about it, I guess it was more venting outload to someone about how I felt at the time. You know, kinda like, "ok, so you don't want to have anything to do with me.. I'll show you. I don't want to have anything with you"

You got me. Thank goodness I vented here.

Mel, I read these post downstairs on my phone while I was packing and I nearly hit the floor weeping. Not and sadness but overwhelmed at how much total strangers care on this board for each other. I feel I have so many friends that I don't know and may never know, but friends I have been more transparent with than anyone ever, except God. It is very freeing to be able to do that.

I truely thank God for you guys and MB and what it stands for. Even if my marriage does not work out, I can't see leaving this community. In fact, if my marriage works out, I have already told my wife, I will never stop learning here. This has been a life changing experiance for me. A way of life change. Like someone that finally changes their eating for good.

Thank you so much for your help.

Well I don't plan on discussing it with them while I am gone, but one of them is my brother who knows and the other is my very best friend who knows. The other guy is a friend in our Sunday School class. I do not plan on mentioning it to him or anyone else. I have a small circle of friends I have talked to. This has been the best place for me. See my post above this to Mel. It is meant for everyone here. You guys have meant the world to me.

Total strangers giving their heart and efforts to each other at the most trying times for most.

BTW, I am not doing what I asked about earliers. I plan on staying with Plan A.

Thanks for the reminder about DJ and the guilt thing. I had never viewed the "whatever" comment like that before.

I will be careful of how much R. babble I do also. Thanks for the reassuring comments above.

Also, see my notes on my responce to Mel. Tonight as we are going to bed there was another small breakthrough. Not much, but there was one.

Thanks again.

aaaaaaaaaargh! I just wrote a long post and lost it. grrrrrr

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I very much understand your gratitude about this forum, waiting. I feel exactly the same and know that my marriage would not be what it is today without the grace of God and the truly fabulous guidance on this forum. They taught me a whole new way of life! I would not have such a wonderful, joyful marriage had I not found Marriage Builders and I mean that sincerely. I am very glad that you found it too and have similar hopes for your marriage.

I know you might find that hard to believe right now, but there really is good progress in your situation. Today was a GOOD DAY, waiting, in that your W told you her secret. Even though it was painful, she felt open enough to share this and you were honest with her about your feelings. That is a huge step forward!

When are you leaving to go hunting? Where to and what are you hunting for? My son, who goes to college up in Michigan caught his first deer a few weeks ago. It is an 8 point buck. He just sent him's momma [ME!] a picture tonight: Chris' deer