I read your response and realized this might have some personal relevance to YOU Low, and your current sitch ...

so i replied in such a way NOT to argue with you, but to hopefully nudge you into not accepting "I'll try" anymore <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ya get me?

I thought so too ... she made the same point as I !!!

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I don't think I understand this at all.

To me, if my wife were to say "I'll try"...that is vastly more hopeful than "I'm not willing to try." I think a switch from a long track record of not trying to actually trying woulld be MONUMENTAL progress...not to be sneezed at.

Of course, the key is ACTION in follow-up. If my wife were to say "I'll try to go out with you and enjoy it", I'd be ecstatic. True, I might prefer some guarantee ("I am committed to going out with you and enjoying it."), but I would take "I'll try" over "I won't try" any day.

To me, "I'll try" has always meant EXACTLY what the terms imply...that I will act without any assurance of success, but I'm willing to TAKE ACTION to resolve the problem. I'm willing to give it a shot, even when I'm not yet sure. The course of action is, in fact, A TRIAL.

Now, I would expect that when someone says they will try, there actions will reflect a good faith attempt. So I suppose I would expect a committment to the trial...

It's not the "I'll try" that the real problem, but the lack of action thereafter.

Low

Low said :
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


ah-choo

It's a delay of committment not a commitment to actually do anything ... it's leaving the excuse to exit door FIRMLY OPEN ! LOL

"I TRIED ... what else do you want?"

ummmmm success and committment maybe?

ummmmm...continued effort until the desired results are in effect?


and persistence and perserverence and continued efforts ...


But if she said, as you were leaving ... "I tried to want to go out but I just don't feel like it. I'll try again tomorrow."

What good is "I'll try" anymore ????



Go ahead and take it ... but don't buy into believing "I'll try" means any more than "I don't know if I will."

It's the same thing without a committment.


Which means ... "I am not sure" ... so don't put your faith in what I say because I may not actually do what I say.



I underlined EXPECT....

And here lies the lie ... how does one tell a good faith attempt???

This is the "expectation" I was pointing out to the BS's here who take the WS'sd "I'll try" ... and place an expectation upon that weak phrase ... only to be run over with yet another disappointment when ... lo-and-behold ... there is still contact and the expectations were dashed.



Bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> EXPECTATIONS


You are agreeing with me, you DO know that don't you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When my husband said "I want to try":

He:

Attended marriage coaching with Steve Harley
But also,
Refused to move home
Continued to run personal ads and dated (alot of dating)
Refused to open his life to me
Made little attempt to meet any of my ENs
Continued abusive LBs

"Try" meant, "I'll include you as an option, but I won't deny myself the others either, just in case you don't feel as good as the other options".

Steve Harley told me to divorce him. "Try" was not a step towards recovery.

When my husband was ready for recovery, the word TRY was no where in his vocabulary.

He promised to take actions that proved his willingness to committ to our marriage, period.

He willingly:

Moved home.
Opened his life to me. (Talk about details, give me the whys)
Gave me all passwords to email, voicemail, etc.
Closed his cell phone acct, and opened one jointly with mine.
Became accountable for all of his time.
Closed separate bank accounts and opened a new account with both of our names, and put his entire direct deposit into it.
Immediately made plans for a family vacation to make amends for time lost with kids.
Put on his wedding ring, and told his entire work place that he was moving home and repairing his marriage.
Began learning and attempting to meet my emotional needs and trying to repair his neglect and hurt of me.

There was no "try". There was a whole lot of "do".

The WS that says "try" is not ready to commit.

It's sorta funny that Low and I see things the same about this. This is where I really hope that seeing inside our foggy (at the time) heads can give some insight.

You're completely right Pep "I'll try" doesn't mean anything other than "I don't know." is correct.

But that is where a newly discovered WS is. To me "trying" meant we made an immediate appointment (that day - D-day) with an MC, out of the phone book and she turned out to be a wonderful, pro marriage, counsellor. The "trying" meant reading everything on MB (but FAR too scared to post lol), reading "Relationship Rescue", reading "His Needs Her Needs", all before d-day. I knew there was going to be a d-day, I was preparing for it when my H found out anyway (ironically by finding the above books hidden in my dresser drawer).

I agree BrambleRose, the WS that says "try" is not ready to commit but I hoped, prayed, was DETERMINED that my "try" would turn into a "commit".

All I can say about the outcome of all this is that I've just come home from the hairdresser and my H said "oooh, look what that's just done to me." *blush, blush* And I gave him a big hug and a kiss and just felt so blessed to have this man in my life.

Jen

LowOrbit,

Thanks for your input on this thread. It has been helpful understanding where WH might be.
I think I could accept "I want to try" if there were actions backing it up. After a year of WH saying "I am trying as best I can" and still continuing contact (albeit a little more secretively) with OP, I've had enough.

A real "I want to try" with the actions that truly showed that WH wants to try would be welcome, but do not look likely at this point in time.

WS called me asking to come home, told her the rules, etc. lasted 3 days. Evidently his (om) pain was greater than mine or our daughters. It's all about them (ws)...

Speaking as a former professional bullsh** artist, the professment of "try" from a fellow bullsh** artist is usually bullsh**, though. "I'll try" usually means, I hope this is enough to shut you up and get you off my back without committing myself to anything. If I truly were committed, I would say I was going to do it and I would do it; there wouldn't be any "try" about it.

{We all get that "I'm trying" line don't we?

I got "once we are able to connect again, then I'll end contact with OW. I'm trying to connect with you, but I just can't."!

Hallo?

My reponse: "I'm not going to connect with you until you end contact completely and forever to Skunkypoo and can prove it". }


Wow, it's a script. My Pom says he is not getting enough from me to make him sure that I want him. I said that I wont want him until he stops hurting me with his daily contact with OW. Although he denies there is anything between them, he gives me reasons why he wont burn the 'back up plan' bridge yet.

You've almost convinced me to send the plan B letter.

Since I started reading your threads, Pep, I gave up counseling. Your advice is better than hers.

... this sorta scares me .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

my advice is strictly opinion ~~~ I can be dead wrong ~~~~

Mojo, that is EXACTLY what I thought when I read the thread title. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I remember reading (I think in a John Bradshaw book) a story about a therapist. Her client was "in recovery" from an addiction, but every week when she questioned him on his status, he would say "I'm trying"--which meant, of course, that he was still acting out. She then told him "Try to get up out of your seat." He stood up. "No, no, no. Sit back down. Now try to get up out of your seat." Same response. They went through it several times before the client got the point: trying is not doing. "Trying" is often (not always) a mental bargain: "I feel bad about this behavior, but I want to continue it. So by 'trying' I alleviate my guilt and get to continue enjoying doing it."

I did think Jen and LO gave a good account of the perspective of the "trying" WS. I think it's important to be grounded in the reality of the other side and not demonize them.

Another thing occurred to me reading it, though. There are two relevant questions cheating presents to the WS:

"Do I want to continue cheating (aka be with both at the same time), or stop and commit to fidelity with one person?" and

"Which person do I want to be with?"

You can't answer the second question without answering the first. Because if the answer to the first is "I want to continue cheating" then it makes the second question totally irrelevant. Question 2 only has meaning if the answer to Question 1 is "I want to commit to one person." But a WS doesn't want to openly address Question 1: in fact, their self-image hinges on avoiding that question at all costs if the honest answer would be "I want to continue cheating." So as long as the unspoken answer to the unasked Question 1 is "I want to keep cheating"--Question 2 can't be answered. But meanwhile, usually both the BS and OP are pressuring the WS to answer Question 2.

"I'll try" is the means to avoid answering Question 2 (which requires an honest answer to Question 1 of "I want to commit to one person.")

When I was finally ready to stop accepting the deferrment of "I'll try" it eliminated Question 1--because continuing to have both was no longer an option. Which left only Question 2.

The thing is, for Clark at least, Question 1 was the hard one to answer. Once it was eliminated, Question 2 was really, really easy. It actually made things simpler and clearer for him. He was being honest, in a roundabout way, in saying he didn't know who he wanted. The truth was, he couldn't even address that question till he decided whether to stop cheating or not.

For the WS, at worst, once the question to cheat or not is eliminated, they only have one question to be confused about and figure out, if in their case it's a confusing and difficult question.

OK, I fully understand that the 'Try' statement is a bit of a crock, I'm receiving it myself at the moment and believe it's just a way of WW justifying not really trying.

However, if it allows me to work on the Plan A aspect, and demonstrate to WW the changes I am making to myself to be a good husband, not just the great father she freely admits I am, and also to better myself, is it not sufficient to accept it, initially, and allow WW to see that even though she offers nothing I can give much and from there move towards a firm commitment to the marriage and recovery?