Hurting:

Sad to say, though...

I've since learned that my FWH was just making up excuses...

The fact was that he wasn't finished with her...

He knew that it would end with her but he wanted to keep having FUN (or whatever) for as long as possible...

He FELT he could do this as long as he had me holding on...

He really did not make his major move back home until HE THOUGHT THAT I WAS REALLY MOVING ON WITHOUT HIM..BUYING A HOUSE ON MY OWN...

You see what I mean? Your H sees the LS as giving him more time...and he thinks he has you appeased...

That's why staying DARK now is especially important...

When my FWH was REALLY FINISHED...HE JUST DID IT....

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS...He even says this about himself now..."Watch my actions..don't go by my words"...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,

I see what your saying. Staying dark is no problem. He told me he knew these last 2 months I had not given up and he didn't contact me because he knew thats what I wanted but yet he knew I was still hanging on to hope.

After our conversation on friday he knows I am still waiting and hoping. I did tell him though I could not and would not wait forever no matter how much I loved him.

I am staying out of the way of this A so it can implode. I won't intefer with it at all. As much as I would like to I won't. If by chance I do see him or hear from him I will repeat to him , Until OW is gone we have nothing to talk about. No me until OW is gone......

...and my husband didn't say "I'll do whatever it takes" until the night before our first court date.

There were multiple breakups with OW btwn the first time there was a break in the fog to the time when he really chose our marriage.

Hurt,

This post of BR's is very short and right on target. Commit it to memory. In my case, the Xws tried to come back at least 7 times....maybe up to 10....stopped counting after 7 because it just got tooo much of the same 'ol routine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> A w/PBR August 2000, D/d Nov 2000, 1st return (false recovery: April 2001).......current recovery: August 2003.

I recommend you don't go there.

Now Mimi is giving you the benefit of her real life experience as the rest of us but her coaching is designed to help you avoid some of the pitfalls we went through. Learn from this.

Easier said than done but if you do, then your experience for yourself, your family, this board and others who you will later meet can benefit immensely from what you are going through right now.

1. Stay dark.
2. Let him come and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt to you. When you share it with this board it s/b convincing enough for even the most scruntizing skeptic posters here (we got a couple, you know = <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) to see recovery. That c/b your measuring tool to help you stay stable.

3. Remember you and your family are 'priceless'. You all deserve t/b treated with love and respect.

4. If he has to think about anything negative in regards to his return (ws babble), then he isn't ready to come back.

5. If he is scared about his future with his family vs living with the OW, let him he know he doesn't have a future with his family right now. That's babble.

6. Learn to counter babble with fact. Don't be afraid to talk against the babble. He wants to give you fear and guilt, give it back. U can do this. Don't let him undermine your stability.

7. Keep your mind and heart in sync. You have your goal. You have your mission. Don't let the WS sidetrack you.

8. When you see sightings of your H, acknowledge it
but don't make plans on it. Not yet. Too unstable.

A good way to disarm the harmful effects of the A is to not get your hopes up. Easy to say and very hard t/d but worth the effort.

Hugz,
L.

Orchid,
Thanks for that list. I will keep everything in mind thats for sure.

As things happen I will let everyone here know whats going on. I know I will need insight and help making the right descions.

Your right its hard not to get my hopes up but I am trying not to.

I do wonder though how will I know when he truly means what he says.

I know him leaving OW and committing to N/C is the first step but as we have all seen sometimes that does not work either. They can commit and send the letter and still fall back into the A. How can you be sure?

I think some of the fog is lifting but he still has a good way to go. I just hope some of what I saw and heard was because of fog lifting.... I'm just so afraid of being hurt again that I am afraid I will overlook and not believe the truth when it comes. My defenses are up so high. How will I be able to tell?

As hard as this may be for a woman like you, you have to MAKE HIM BEG YOU to take him back...

He has to evidence DESPERATION....

You will be hard to reach...you will be hard to find...

He will be almost panting to make it CLEAR to you...

Like BR's H, asking "WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO?"

Then, you say, "I'm not sure, I'll think about it..I'll get back with you on my decision, etc."....

As some folks on here may recall, my H started trying to buy me things...like a car...a BIGGER HOUSE than the one I moved out of....

Mimi,

Glad you posted those things to me.

I guess I will know when its true.

Thanks again....

Hi Hurting,

Will you be getting your phone on soon? And if so will WH get the phone #?

I don't know why I thought of that???...just wondering.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

Lady,

I hope to have the phone done by the end of the month. Yes he will have the number because of the kids. But I have an answering machine and caller id.... So I can avoid calls if need be.

Only call I want from him is the right one.... and i don't expect that any time soon......

Only call I want from him is the right one....
I don't blame you there. But I bet thats when you will be hearing from him, if not sooner.

Mimi, is so right when she says he needs to be begging. It can't be like yesterday he left, and then walk back in the door the next, like nothing happened. You have to make him beg, and make him know it's a privalege to come back home.
He has to be in total remorse, and repentative.

Maybe there was too much talk at the court house between the two of you...I don't know. But... I don't think any of us thought of something like that happening, and you didn't expect it either....so you weren't prepared for it.
Maybe you "shoulda woulda coulda" just handed him the plan B letter at court.

What do you think?

Lady

lady,

I don't know , there may have been to much talk but I handled it well and told him all I had to say.

I let him know in no uncertain terms what I wanted and that OW had to be gone from his life before there will ever be an us again. He know he will not be allowed to cake-eat.

He also knows how hurt I have been and that I won't allow it anymore. Actually he also knows my feelings on OW. When he mentioned about her becoming angry at just my name even being mentioned, I let him know that as far as I was concerned she was nothing to me and that as far as I w as concerned she had fallen off the face of the earth. I let him know I have no repsect for her or her actions. I told him she knew you were married and she knew me and any woman who allows herself to become involved with a married man was not worth anyones respect. I said I know she was not the reason for our marriage problems but once she bacame involved with him she bacame part of this whole mess. Now I did all of this speaking with grace and dignaty. I never once LB'ed him or her. I never used any bad language or called any names. I just stated my feelings. Now I will tell you if i had spoken about her like this 2 months ago he would have defended her. He listened and never said one word. No defense for her at all. I was shocked.

So yes maybe more was said than should have been but I got a lot of things said that needed to be said to him. Your right I sure didn't expect this to happen, we were suppose to be seperated but with the judges scheduale being over booked we ended up in the hallway for over an hour together alone. The one thing though is he never once tried to justify anything or he never got angry at anything I said. He listened and instead of looking away and avoiding my face he looked in my face the whole time and never waviered. This has not happened since d-day. He actually looked me in my eyes and didn't turn away. So maybe some of what I said got through. We will see

Hurting,

I think you handled it well too, considering the situation.

I remember prior to court, you were so worried how you were going to handle it if you saw him. I think your God given intuition told you you were going to see him, and more.

Well he is on the road again this week with more to think about. Hope and pray more of the fog will lift.

But it does sound like he is making preparations to leave OW. That is a plus. We'll see...hopefully soon.

Lady

lady,

I hope and pray he is doing just that. As you said we will see....

DD just came in here and asked me if i had heard from WH today. I told her no and I don't expect to he knows how I feel. She said for some reason she has a gut feeling he will try to come by tonight on his way out of town. I don't think he will myself. I pray not anyway. I do know he is only going about 250 miles on this trip so he won't leave until late tonight. But I seriousy doubt he would come by here.

Anyhow I am feeling a lot better tonight. I have been busy today went shopping with my MIL for christmas. She wanted to get me some new clothes and I had to try them on. Since i have lost so much weight we had no idea what size to get. So anyway I about fell over when I finally found some jeans to fit me. Now I don't want to tell my weight from before but I have to tell this just to brag a little. I was wearing like a size 18 jean in June when all t his crap started , well today the jeans I got were a size 12. I was so happy...... IN fact WH said yesterday how wonderful I looked and that I had not been this small since before our first child was born. I can say he has never complained about my weight and always was attracted to me even as a large woman... but this made him turn his head big time.....

Lets keep praying Lady that things are turning around for WH and myself and he is trying to come out of the fog......


Hurting

Wow Hurting,
You have lost a lot of weight! You must feel so much better too. Sad to say though...it takes something like to for it to happen. WH sees you making great changes in many ways!! And...I'm sure he is very impressed!!


Not saying it's gonna happen, but what would you do if your WH stops by tonight before going OTR?

Lady

Lady,

For one thing I don't think he will come by here. If he does I woould just state to him that until he leaves OW we have nothing to discuss.

Sometimes I feel like he may be wanting my help but I can't help him, he made this mess and he has to be the one to fix it. I was not the one who made him do this he was, so its all up to him. As much as I would like to fix it I know I can't.

I think DD is wishing to much, she knows we spoke at court yesterday so I think she believes we are on the track to recovery because I spoke to him after so long. She keeps saying mom he is going to come home, I just know it. He is not happy.

But like I said I don't think he will even try to come here.

Yes, It sounds like DD has her hopes up too, can't blame her. It's probably her dream.

And...No you can't help him out of it. He needs to do it himself. He needs to take the right steps.

And... Yeah he says OW is not all he expected...whatever... But.....He needs to feel the remorse of his actions before returning. He needs to acknowledge what a terrible WH he has been. He needs to acknowledge, that his actions have been devastating to all! He can't be just like...well OW didn't do...so I'm goin' home. Do you know what I mean??

I'm wondering...do you think you should have a copy of Plan B letter available just in case he does come by at any time? Just hand it to him, or have someone else like DD hand it to him?

Lady

Lady,

I have copies of the planb letter already printed out. I did that this afternoon just in case.

Something tells me I may have to hand a few out.

Maybe after a few more of those he will finally get it. I do wonder though if he moves out from OW do I still plan b?

I know he is not moving out anytime soon I don't think but you never know. I guess when/if he moves out I will know what to do.

I know what you mean, he has to admit he messed up and hurt everyone. He did acknowledge friday he knew he hurt me but I still don't think he gets how much and the devestation it caused us all. I think in tme he will figure it out but he is still a ways from that ....

Oh thats good, you have a the plan B letter ready. I have a feeling you are going to need it too.

Yeah, he doesn't seem in a desperate remorseful state yet. You will need to see that. He is a traveler...which is more difficult I think....He just thinks wherever he goes he is welcome.

Well I hope his eyes and ears open this week Hurting. I really want to see him crying, begging for your forgiveness to come home.

Lady