Shaddup!

THREAD!

It was a typo from typing on my laptop (can't type on laptop keyboards <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) and the threat is that I'm also on dialup which keeps disconnecting. I don't have time to speil <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> check. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That is way more than you asked for, huh?

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />what's this spell check thing everyone is always talking about.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

glad I don't neeeed soemthang like that........

threadjack threadjack threadjack threadjack

Susan is actually .... Al Gore ... inventor of the internet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

.... bet you didn't know that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I always did think he looked like a 'Susan.'

... well, the REAL 'proof' is in the funny accent .... and the sloooooow talkin'

Al Gore ... inventor of the internet

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> good one !

BOB:

What I find missing with you and others is FAITH.

Faith defined as "trusting in what is unseen and unknown".

I know that I have developed tremendous FAITH in GOD.

I don't know how to help a person develop this except through prayer. I pray this for you.

My favorite verse from PROVERBS is:

"Trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and HE will direct your paths...."

This is the FAITH that I have..

Regardless of what I am going through and will go through, in my darkest hours, I know that HE will take care of me and that HIS PLAN is for MY OWN GOOD...or the GOOD of others..

I believe that we are all interconnected in working on HIS PLAN...

This belief is popularized in the movies "CRASH" and "GRAND CANYON" and in the novel THE FIVE PEOPLE YOU MEET IN HEAVEN ....how good can come from bad somewhere down the line in GOD'S PLAN....

Mimi, I love the movie Grand Canyon. I even have it on DVD. Makes me feel good ever time I watch it.

Mimi

Faith in WHAT ? Exactly what ?

Faith that God will do what I ask in prayer ? That he will deliver me from my troubles ?

ahhhhhhhhh

good threadjacking !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Soz pep. Mimi made me do it !

Bob, the following is Martin Luther's definition of faith:

i suppose that depends on exactly what you ask for in prayer. do you specifically ask for this or that? do you presume to know what is best for yourself and for the overall plan of things?

He never promised life would be trouble free.

Pray for serentiy, courage, wisdom ( The Serenity Prayer ). Pray for strength, guidance (God, You and I dance), patience.

you posted about how you are not a God loving person as much as a God fearing person. i personally think that is where you have to keep digging.

Bob:

You asked "FAITH IN WHAT?"

My answer: FAITH IN GOD.

This quote from what FF provided says it all for me:



This is the way I feel...

Mimi, FF when you trust in God's grace what does that mean?

What is this 'god's favour' that you would you risk death for ?

Would you step off the observation tower atop the Empire State building trusting that God's grace and favour will save you ?

Would you not call the fire service when your home catches ablaze, because you trust in God's grace to douse the flames ?

If not these when WILL you trust in God alone as I am exhorted to all the time ?

Or do you accept whatever fate throws at you trusting that God intends that fate for you and so it must be for His good ?

Help me understand. I do not want to be person who 'excuses' God when prayers fail. I want to know how God works so that I may expect His response truly. I want to know how some followers consider God 'daddy' when IME God does not behave as my own father did.

Help me.

Bob:

I've been trying to tell you that I personally don't have the words to explain this to you or to help you to "HAVE FAITH"...

I have developed FAITH through being personally touched by the hand of God....

I have turned to HIM and HE has ALWAYS been there for me..through much ADVERSITY in my life...

I have called on the HOLY SPIRIT..listened for what the SPIRIT had to tell me and FOLLOWED...HIS direction...

It's like opening your heart to HIM....




I have FAITH right now as I type this that my Lord and Savior would not ask me to do this...




The Lord has blessed me with free will, knowledge, a telephone, etc. to know to call him...

However, if my house burned down to the ground if I couldn't reach the fire department, if they couldn't come on time, I would have FAITH IN HIM to know that this happened for a reason that would be too AWESOME for me to understand..

If I could understand God's reasoning, how could I believe in HIM and HIS POWER? We have to BE STILL and KNOW that HE IS GOD...

My son right now can't comprehend why we don't let him stay out until 3AM. He wants us to try to explain this to him. We have to say that: "In due time you will understand this. You have to have FAITH to KNOW that we are LIMITING to you in this respect because we know better. We are doing this because we LOVE and CARE for you like no one else does, not out of meanness or our NEED TO CONTROL you". That's what he thinks. We say, "in due time, you will understand. It will be made clear to you".

That's my viewpoint on GOD. In due time, I have FAITH that it will ALL be made clear to me. If not in this life, it will be made clear to be in HEAVEN.....



How did you father behave differently than we do in the example given above?

Bob, you know the story about the guy in a flood that refused a boat, helicopter etc saying God will rescue him only to have God ask him why did he refuse his help when he sent the boat, helicopter etc.? Same thing. No I would not let my house burn down or my children starve in the name of God providing. God provides for our needs in generally very ordinary ways. It is confusing because there is so much suffering in the world and at times we wonder why am I so blessed when other's have nothing? Those are mysteries we cannot understand until we are standing in front of Him. Why did He save my DS's life knowing the kind of life it would be? We cannot possibly think like God because we are human, KWIM?

Bob, the best book I ever read for this in by Dobson "When God Doesn't Make Sense" I can tell you personally at my lonliest, darkest hours He was with me. I felt His presence in my heart and soul.

It is not that He does not answer prayers, Bob, it is that we don't get those answers in the way WE think they should be answered and in OUR time. Remember He has the big picture. He knows what is the plan. It is in His time.

God bless you in whatever it is you are stuggling with.

Mimi I do not doubt God's existence, Nor his power. What I ned to know is how I can expect him to help me in adversity. My expectations so far have been dashed.

I see a near-random sprinkling of blessings and bad stuff affecting sinners and saints alike in this world. Muslims, Atheists , yogic fliers, Mormons, 7th day adventists, Scientologists, Kaballaists, Sufi's, Matabele shamans, lamas and Christians. So Christians don't have the exclusive rights to miraculus intercession. Thats understandable, we're ALL God's children, not just the saved ones.

But what I believe must support what I see. God should not need excusing. I Have HUGE faith in Gods existence an dpower. I do not have faith that God will save me if I ask, if that is not His will.

Earnest prayer for mercy can be answered with death; prayer for safety met with devastation. Curses met with blessings for Christians as well as for anyone else. sometimes when his children ask for bread they DO get a stone.

I prayed daily in thanks for my marriage and in protection of it. And look what happened. I am not saying God 'let me down' I am saying that God has a plan for us , and if that plan is not best served by meeting our immediate needs or wants, or by our prayers being answered in the way we hope, then it will not happen.
I prayed that my Mom should not get cancer. She did. I prayed that Mom should recover from it. She didn't. I prayed my Dad shouldn't die at only 72. He did.

THIS is why I fear to lean on God without any secular 'safety net' that I may be able to fashion. Because if it is not in God's plan to stop me from falling then shall I fall. Hard. And I can never know until I fall if my safety is in God's plan or not.

I do not doubt God's existence, presence or love. What I fear is God's focus on doing HIS thing when it is so contrary to what He nows I would desire.

So I pray " I would like THIS Lord, but not MY will, but YOURS be done".

Leaning on a God who won't be leaned on if it doesn't suit His plan is a risky business. And sometimes perhaps my secular safety net - whatever it may be of my own strength and construction - might just be how God intends to deal with a certain situation.

Ark says God doesn't cause tragedy, but it is some failing in us that does, thats a valid POV. But if that is so WHY PRAY other than thanks and praise? If God will not intercede in cases where man's weakness or devil attack has caused suffering. and if he DOES intercede in some, why not in ALL ?

I just read " wild at heart" and "cherished" by Eldredge. he talks lovingly about God as being not just a FATHER figure, but a DADDY figure.

I have real difficulty with this.

My mortal Dad would have DIED before he let me down: Before he let me fall or suffer consequences of someone elses evil action. I am to talk to God as "daddy" knowing that as often as not he will grant blessings to evildoers and give me a stone when I ask for bread if bread does not suit His plan. That is the measurable outworking of God's action on earth is it not?
If God does not intercede in support of our prayers every time, or even any time more than non praying folk, how can we lean on him without fear ?

I DO NOT DOUBT my God, jut the interpretation of His nature that I am given. I am told by MANY with a greater faith than mine, Ark, pep, Mimi,FF , FL ( almost everyone ! LOL ! ) that I can trust God and lean on him. How can I do this when I have been let down so often?


So that is why I am a God fearing man. God is omnimpotent and fearsome, and can be loving and capricious. His plan, as with Job, is not easy for us to equate with our prayers or best interests.

Thats why when I read entreats to lean on God like that from Ark, it stings me. because I must lean on God without any expectation that he will do as I would ask.

Myself and others are constantly called upon to lean on God in adversity rather than relying on their own sometimes precitable and estimable strength and resources. I fear to do that as I do not expect God to help me, at least not in manifest ways.

I am envious of others who have faith to lean on the uncertain.

Bob, if your children wanted permission from you to do something you did not feel was in their best interest, would you not want them ot discuss it with you anyway? Wouldn't you want them to come to you and ask instead of plowing ahead with their notion of what is best for them? That is our relationship with God. He wants, desires conversation with us. We do so with prayer, solitude and meditation upon His word. He may not give us the answer we are seeking but given the chance He will direct on the right path.

God hasn;t told me yet how its in my best interest for my marriage be polluted and heart be smashed, or what lesson He was trying to teach me. And I've listened closely. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />