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Love this threat. Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> What's a threat ??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Shaddup! THREAD! It was a typo from typing on my laptop (can't type on laptop keyboards <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) and the threat is that I'm also on dialup which keeps disconnecting. I don't have time to speil <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> check. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> That is way more than you asked for, huh? Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Susan; 10/20/05 09:27 AM.
Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail.
~ Kinky Friedman
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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />what's this spell check thing everyone is always talking about.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
glad I don't neeeed soemthang like that........
threadjack threadjack threadjack threadjack
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Curious: Susan, how did you engineer registering for MB pre-internet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Susan is actually .... Al Gore ... inventor of the internet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .... bet you didn't know that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
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Susan is actually .... Al Gore ... inventor of the internet
.... bet you didn't know that! I always did think he looked like a 'Susan.'
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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I always did think he looked like a 'Susan.' ... well, the REAL 'proof' is in the funny accent .... and the sloooooow talkin'
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Al Gore ... inventor of the internet<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> good one !
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BOB:
What I find missing with you and others is FAITH.
Faith defined as "trusting in what is unseen and unknown".
I know that I have developed tremendous FAITH in GOD.
I don't know how to help a person develop this except through prayer. I pray this for you.
My favorite verse from PROVERBS is:
"Trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and HE will direct your paths...."
This is the FAITH that I have..
Regardless of what I am going through and will go through, in my darkest hours, I know that HE will take care of me and that HIS PLAN is for MY OWN GOOD...or the GOOD of others..
I believe that we are all interconnected in working on HIS PLAN...
This belief is popularized in the movies "CRASH" and "GRAND CANYON" and in the novel THE FIVE PEOPLE YOU MEET IN HEAVEN ....how good can come from bad somewhere down the line in GOD'S PLAN....
Last edited by mimi1254; 10/20/05 12:21 PM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Mimi, I love the movie Grand Canyon. I even have it on DVD. Makes me feel good ever time I watch it.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Mimi
Faith in WHAT ? Exactly what ?
Faith that God will do what I ask in prayer ? That he will deliver me from my troubles ?
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ahhhhhhhhh good threadjacking ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Soz pep. Mimi made me do it !
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Bob, the following is Martin Luther's definition of faith: Faith is not what some people think it is. Their human dream
is a delusion. Because they observe that faith is not followed by
good works or a better life, they fall into error, even though they
speak and hear much about faith. ``Faith is not enough,'' they
say, ``You must do good works, you must be pious to be saved.''
They think that, when you hear the gospel, you start working,
creating by your own strength a thankful heart which says, ``I
believe.'' That is what they think true faith is. But, because
this is a human idea, a dream, the heart never learns anything
from it, so it does nothing and reform doesn't come from this
`faith,' either.
Instead, faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives
new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us
completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits,
our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with
it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this
faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't
stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone
asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without
ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an
unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good
works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are.
Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many
words.
Faith is a living, bold trust in God's grace, so certain of
God's favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it.
Such confidence and knowledge of God's grace makes you happy,
joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The
Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you
freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve
everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who
has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to
separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from
fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard
against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they're smart enough
to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools.
Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without
faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.
_________________________________________________________________
This text was translated for Project Wittenberg by Rev. Robert E.
Smith and is in the public domain. You may freely distribute,
copy or print this text. Please direct any comments or
suggestions to:
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Faith that God will do what I ask in prayer ? i suppose that depends on exactly what you ask for in prayer. do you specifically ask for this or that? do you presume to know what is best for yourself and for the overall plan of things? That he will deliver me from my troubles ? He never promised life would be trouble free. Pray for serentiy, courage, wisdom ( The Serenity Prayer ). Pray for strength, guidance (God, You and I dance), patience. you posted about how you are not a God loving person as much as a God fearing person. i personally think that is where you have to keep digging.
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Bob: You asked "FAITH IN WHAT?" My answer: FAITH IN GOD. This quote from what FF provided says it all for me: Faith is a living, bold trust in God's grace, so certain of
God's favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. This is the way I feel...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Mimi, FF when you trust in God's grace what does that mean?
What is this 'god's favour' that you would you risk death for ?
Would you step off the observation tower atop the Empire State building trusting that God's grace and favour will save you ?
Would you not call the fire service when your home catches ablaze, because you trust in God's grace to douse the flames ?
If not these when WILL you trust in God alone as I am exhorted to all the time ?
Or do you accept whatever fate throws at you trusting that God intends that fate for you and so it must be for His good ?
Help me understand. I do not want to be person who 'excuses' God when prayers fail. I want to know how God works so that I may expect His response truly. I want to know how some followers consider God 'daddy' when IME God does not behave as my own father did.
Help me.
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Bob: I've been trying to tell you that I personally don't have the words to explain this to you or to help you to "HAVE FAITH"... I have developed FAITH through being personally touched by the hand of God.... I have turned to HIM and HE has ALWAYS been there for me..through much ADVERSITY in my life... I have called on the HOLY SPIRIT..listened for what the SPIRIT had to tell me and FOLLOWED...HIS direction... It's like opening your heart to HIM.... Would you step off the observation tower atop the Empire State building trusting that God's grace and favour will save you ? I have FAITH right now as I type this that my Lord and Savior would not ask me to do this... Would you not call the fire service when your home catches ablaze, because you trust in God's grace to douse the flames ? The Lord has blessed me with free will, knowledge, a telephone, etc. to know to call him... However, if my house burned down to the ground if I couldn't reach the fire department, if they couldn't come on time, I would have FAITH IN HIM to know that this happened for a reason that would be too AWESOME for me to understand.. If I could understand God's reasoning, how could I believe in HIM and HIS POWER? We have to BE STILL and KNOW that HE IS GOD... My son right now can't comprehend why we don't let him stay out until 3AM. He wants us to try to explain this to him. We have to say that: "In due time you will understand this. You have to have FAITH to KNOW that we are LIMITING to you in this respect because we know better. We are doing this because we LOVE and CARE for you like no one else does, not out of meanness or our NEED TO CONTROL you". That's what he thinks. We say, "in due time, you will understand. It will be made clear to you". That's my viewpoint on GOD. In due time, I have FAITH that it will ALL be made clear to me. If not in this life, it will be made clear to be in HEAVEN..... I want to know how some followers consider God 'daddy' when IME God does not behave as my own father did. How did you father behave differently than we do in the example given above?
Last edited by mimi1254; 10/20/05 01:36 PM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Bob, you know the story about the guy in a flood that refused a boat, helicopter etc saying God will rescue him only to have God ask him why did he refuse his help when he sent the boat, helicopter etc.? Same thing. No I would not let my house burn down or my children starve in the name of God providing. God provides for our needs in generally very ordinary ways. It is confusing because there is so much suffering in the world and at times we wonder why am I so blessed when other's have nothing? Those are mysteries we cannot understand until we are standing in front of Him. Why did He save my DS's life knowing the kind of life it would be? We cannot possibly think like God because we are human, KWIM?
Bob, the best book I ever read for this in by Dobson "When God Doesn't Make Sense" I can tell you personally at my lonliest, darkest hours He was with me. I felt His presence in my heart and soul.
It is not that He does not answer prayers, Bob, it is that we don't get those answers in the way WE think they should be answered and in OUR time. Remember He has the big picture. He knows what is the plan. It is in His time.
God bless you in whatever it is you are stuggling with.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Mimi I do not doubt God's existence, Nor his power. What I ned to know is how I can expect him to help me in adversity. My expectations so far have been dashed.
I see a near-random sprinkling of blessings and bad stuff affecting sinners and saints alike in this world. Muslims, Atheists , yogic fliers, Mormons, 7th day adventists, Scientologists, Kaballaists, Sufi's, Matabele shamans, lamas and Christians. So Christians don't have the exclusive rights to miraculus intercession. Thats understandable, we're ALL God's children, not just the saved ones.
But what I believe must support what I see. God should not need excusing. I Have HUGE faith in Gods existence an dpower. I do not have faith that God will save me if I ask, if that is not His will.
Earnest prayer for mercy can be answered with death; prayer for safety met with devastation. Curses met with blessings for Christians as well as for anyone else. sometimes when his children ask for bread they DO get a stone.
I prayed daily in thanks for my marriage and in protection of it. And look what happened. I am not saying God 'let me down' I am saying that God has a plan for us , and if that plan is not best served by meeting our immediate needs or wants, or by our prayers being answered in the way we hope, then it will not happen.
I prayed that my Mom should not get cancer. She did. I prayed that Mom should recover from it. She didn't. I prayed my Dad shouldn't die at only 72. He did.
THIS is why I fear to lean on God without any secular 'safety net' that I may be able to fashion. Because if it is not in God's plan to stop me from falling then shall I fall. Hard. And I can never know until I fall if my safety is in God's plan or not.
I do not doubt God's existence, presence or love. What I fear is God's focus on doing HIS thing when it is so contrary to what He nows I would desire.
So I pray " I would like THIS Lord, but not MY will, but YOURS be done".
Leaning on a God who won't be leaned on if it doesn't suit His plan is a risky business. And sometimes perhaps my secular safety net - whatever it may be of my own strength and construction - might just be how God intends to deal with a certain situation.
Ark says God doesn't cause tragedy, but it is some failing in us that does, thats a valid POV. But if that is so WHY PRAY other than thanks and praise? If God will not intercede in cases where man's weakness or devil attack has caused suffering. and if he DOES intercede in some, why not in ALL ?
I just read " wild at heart" and "cherished" by Eldredge. he talks lovingly about God as being not just a FATHER figure, but a DADDY figure.
I have real difficulty with this.
My mortal Dad would have DIED before he let me down: Before he let me fall or suffer consequences of someone elses evil action. I am to talk to God as "daddy" knowing that as often as not he will grant blessings to evildoers and give me a stone when I ask for bread if bread does not suit His plan. That is the measurable outworking of God's action on earth is it not?
If God does not intercede in support of our prayers every time, or even any time more than non praying folk, how can we lean on him without fear ?
I DO NOT DOUBT my God, jut the interpretation of His nature that I am given. I am told by MANY with a greater faith than mine, Ark, pep, Mimi,FF , FL ( almost everyone ! LOL ! ) that I can trust God and lean on him. How can I do this when I have been let down so often?
So that is why I am a God fearing man. God is omnimpotent and fearsome, and can be loving and capricious. His plan, as with Job, is not easy for us to equate with our prayers or best interests.
Thats why when I read entreats to lean on God like that from Ark, it stings me. because I must lean on God without any expectation that he will do as I would ask.
Myself and others are constantly called upon to lean on God in adversity rather than relying on their own sometimes precitable and estimable strength and resources. I fear to do that as I do not expect God to help me, at least not in manifest ways.
I am envious of others who have faith to lean on the uncertain.
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Ark says God doesn't cause tragedy, but it is some failing in us that does, thats a valid POV. But if that is so WHY PRAY other than thanks and praise? If God will not intercede in cases where man's weakness or devil attack has caused suffering. and if he DOES intercede in some, why not in ALL ? Bob, if your children wanted permission from you to do something you did not feel was in their best interest, would you not want them ot discuss it with you anyway? Wouldn't you want them to come to you and ask instead of plowing ahead with their notion of what is best for them? That is our relationship with God. He wants, desires conversation with us. We do so with prayer, solitude and meditation upon His word. He may not give us the answer we are seeking but given the chance He will direct on the right path.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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God hasn;t told me yet how its in my best interest for my marriage be polluted and heart be smashed, or what lesson He was trying to teach me. And I've listened closely. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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