I think what Mimi is getting at is that God takes the bad (ie Squids A)and turns it into something good. as in Squid becoming a better mother and mate to Bob.

FF, i believe the same.

i was hearing in bob's posts that God purposely let this happen.

my posts were trying to get across my belief that God does not purposely let or even want bad things to happen to us.

To me, that belief seemed to be what Bob was missing and what might help him. assuming that belief is correct, which i truely believe it is.

with how the conversation was going... i was not seeing if others agree or dis-agree with this belief.

and i am very curious to know.

i also never saw Bob specifically address what i was saying.

also, i'm not sure mimi believes God merely takes the evil and transforms it into good. to me it looks like mimi believes God purposely puts these situations into our lives.

I know FL, sometimes the conversation is on different levels of thinking. For the record, MHO is that though God knows us intimately he does not know the choice we will make. He gives us the ability to make decisions for the better or worse for our lives. However...He can turn those bad decisions into growth, fruit if you will, IF we allow Him to. The point is you cannot force a WS to stop an A by praying because they have to WANT God to intervene.

Mimi, I understand in some ways how you feel. I have such a passion for Jesus that some days I want to tell people "I am in love"! Even thought I do not understand His ways my love for Him is passionate.

FL in truth I see my advisors here as inarticulate in describing the real NATURE of God's involvement with humankind as I am.

Some infer God allows or sends evil to befall us to teach us lessons or that some greater good may follow. But this is not uniformly borne out in my experience so it cannot be the only description of God's interactions with us.

Then it is inferred that blessings come from God but evil does not. Does this mean when evil happens, God is not in charge at that Moment but Satan is? I can't believe that. Satan asked God's permission to plague Job, and God allowed it. I can only assume that is the case for everyone, not just Job.

Then it is inferred or stated that we can rely utterly on God, but I am yet to see explained exactly WHAT we can lean on God to do. We have already determined in this discourse that God does not usually prevent oncoming troubles, despite petitionary prayer. Not all the time at least. Not like a mortal Dad would anyway.

So we can only rely on God to protect or uphold that which we pray for or care about until it is targeted for evil attack or for a harsh lesson being taught, at which time he will bite his lip and grieve as the train smashes the school bus ??

SURELY that can't be the right interpretation ?!

So some also say we can rely on God to heal us from the hurts caused by evil attack , bad choices or happenstance. But as I said good Christians' children starve to death in their arms every day. So in what way can LEAN on God ?

I am NOT seeking to break anyone's faith. I WANT a great faith Like Mimi and FF show here BUT it must be borne out in my life.

My expectations for God MUST be real and accurate else I will be disappointed in God and thats just wrong.

Pep, SQUID chose to have an affair, so despite year sof earnest prayer to sustain my marriage, God allows her to pollute it. If People choose eveil, perhaps I should have Prayed to Squid ( petitioned Squid) to sustain our marriage instead of God?

If God does not intercede in response to prayer, why pray other than to praise and worship?

If God is "ABBA - father" why does He behave in a way that would see mortal fathers carted off to prison for neglect ?

I need to know what to expect from God. Then I can lean up to my expectations upon him.

I think I need to read my Bible and pray for insight.

Hi all,
Love this thread…thought I throw my 2 cents in.

Just like bob I straggled with the same issue for a along time….when I was younger I would look at all the things that were happening to me and think why did God let this happen to me and I asked God to help me and HE did not and I blamed him etc…

Over time I wanted to have some understanding of God that I could live with …I had a hard time reconciling the Old Testament with the new…a vengeful God vs. a loving God…

I wanted to understand how could a child be raped and killed. I always think of this example and it puts to rest any thoughts of God is letting it happen for some other plan.
Seriously, I cannot believe in a God that would just let it happen…

God gave us a chance to live without pain and worries but we did not take it....he wanted to take care of all our pain and worries and trust in him…we did not take it…so now he let us have what we wanted…the ability to make a choice…and he lets the wave ride out…for everyone…he does not pick and choose who to help where to act…he gives all of us the chance to do as he showed us to do…do the right thing live the right life…trust in him to get through it all…some of us choose the right path some don’t…since we live in a society we have to live with the choices that PEOPLE make…we have to live with the killers, kidnappers, robbers, adulteress, (bad drivers!)….etc… God is giving us free will to follow his word…just as he gives it to the spouse that is faithful, he gives it to the spouse that is not…He chooses not to interfere in the adulteress path and to stop him from what he/she is doing…they, just like the BS, have the free will to make a choice and take an action….

I believe God is watching and he is present in our lives and if we reach out to him and believe in him and have faith we can find peace in what at times feels like an insane world….

I believe God hurts when he sees the wrong paths taken by some of us….you can ask why does he not act…but HE DID ACT…that is why Jesus came, to save us no matter what we do…that is how much he loves us….

By that action alone I cannot believe God stands by and lets bad things happen…he saw our actions and did not like it….was angry (and who could blame him), frustrated with us and sure at times wanted to give up and be done with us, yet he still comes through and than boom he sends his son to save us…Blows my mind….certainly not something one could foresee…


I don’t pray for God to fix a specific problem……I reach out to find peace in my mind to do the best I can…have him by my side to deal with all that is going on ... Most of us don’t need God to know what is right and what is wrong… I believe in God and trust in God to have peace in my mind and have strength in my heart…

What is God’s plan? I don’t know….when God says I have a plan I don’t imagine that all my choices have been taken away and my life is already planned out….I cannot believe God would do that…it just sounds so boring….and unimaginative…I believe God is so out there that I cannot even imagine what his plan could possibly be….Just like the whole concept of GOD is impossible for me to comprehend – and I just have FAITH, so is his Plan and I have faith in his Plan….

I still get to make my choices and God has his mysteries….


Hey, go easy on me, hard to some up something inexpressible in one page….

Daisy

all of this is really making me examine my beliefs and for that i thank all that have shared.

but more than that... i brick just hit me in the head. i realize that although i can say i believe the things i have said here, i realize don't even come close to letting that belief guide me in life.

it's kinda like the light-bulb moment (maybe that is better than a brick) i had when i realized that although i truely felt i have always believed in God's love, i never felt like it was meant for me. i was outside the scope of His love. that light-bulb moment occured because of something my IC and I talked about. and it really made a huge difference in me. it was shortly after that light bulb moment and partially (if not entirely) because of it that i was finally able to confess everything else to my H.

i wonder how much more i can accomplish if i allow this light-bulb moment to take deep root in me too.

have a great weekend all.

Hi W_D.

So you pray " Lord, sh*t will happen, but grant me peace in the storm" ?

Can we really expect nothing from God but salvation and settled mind? Is that IT?

So what does the sermon Ark posted mean, that to receive our blessing we must trust in God so completely that we 'take up our pallet' ( our worldly safety net) if God provides salvation, peace of mind and nothing else?

I am so confused by this !

At my church we had a visit once from a man called Oliver Raper who was a bigwig in Reinhard Bonkke's ministry.

Have gave us witness of the worders God was working in rural Africa. He had seen new eyes fill empty sockets, and crippled limbs made straightened. WITH HIS OWN EYES.

Now assuming this Godly man wasn;t lying, HIS God is one who intercedes physically in evil circumstances.

How is that reconciled to this 'God who offers salvation and peace of mind only and stands by while trains crash".

THIS is what confuses me. Is it something I am doing wrong ?

Hi Daisy, great post. thanks!!

Hi Bob, i just saw your post too. as you can see, you are certainly not doing that!!

Bob, it may be tomorrow before I can get back here but I won't to answer that last question best I can because the God I believe CAN heal the sick, the lame, the sinners however only He knows what is really best for us. The problem you are struggling with is why he allowed your M to be damaged. He didn't, Squid did. You CAN lean on him Bob but you have to use the tools he provided you as well. Anyway, I have Dobson's book at home and I will find what I am trying to say and post it. {{bob}}

Bob,
Good comeback!

Bob, sh*t does happen! And I don't hate God, blame God, wonder why He lets it happen etc... To me he operates on a whole different level than you and me. Yes, your instict would be to save someone from a train crush, and stop someone from choosing to be with a married man/woman and stop someone from cheating...etc..but to me that is not Gods way...would it have been your way to send your only son to the cross? Probably not! God works in ways we cannot possibly understand...and it does not bother me, I am not angry at him for not stopping half the crazy people in this world...when I know HE CAN!...

that is my belive, my conviction...and I am sharing it with you...with it I love God, trust in him, have FAITH...

FAITH is a tough one, and it is even harder to explain...

I think it is so hard to express that others can always find a 'loop whole', which does help me to think about my FAITH and just wonder and ponder on it more...


See Bob, I don't view it as "that's it"!
Can you get that from anyone else? What I get from God it hard to explain and I will have to think more on it...but salvation, if you take that alone, is that not prity big?!

Daisy

W_D if you dont expect god to intervene in your favour in worldly issues, why do you petition Him in prayer ?

Salvation is, of course, the ultimate mystery and grace. But it is not the imediate answer to every situation we might call upon God for.

Bob,
As I said this is very hard to explain...I don't pray to God to 'bring my H home'...I just trust in Him being in my life...that is the best way I can say it now...I don't pray to stop all the insanity in this world...if he wanted to do that - wouldn't it be already done?...I do my best not to participate in the insanity and I trust in His strength to get me through..
I don't view praying for X as being the same as trusting and having faith in his love! I just don't and I will not be able to explain it to you otherwise....FAITH defies logic and hence I cannot use logic to explain any of this...

Lastly, let me say that I don't pretend to understand God...I question and ponder and form in my mind my best (not complete!) understanding at any given time that I can.....
I don't expect that this is the right way! ...God may just be shaking his head as he reads this....

Daisy

God may just be shaking his head as he reads this....
but smiling I guess !

Thanks W_B. I'm off to bed. Its 1 am here !

Bob,
I hope he is smiling!

Enjoy your weekend!

Daisy

So Pep, howa' bean?!?!?!?

L.

good