OK....back to basics....unless this man gets his mental health issues taken care of....there will be no one that can count on him...you or any OW. He will have broad mood and behavioral swings. His affairs may be some type of "fix" to help him adjust his moods, rather than working on finding medication that works. Was he on medication during the three fairly good years that you had?

Some people I've know who have bi-polar disorder talk about not really wanting to give up the "high" times (manic). They don't want the depression, but they like the energy, the buzz they get when they swing the other way. So, some will sabotage their medication regime, saying it doesn't work. Or, the medication may even out their moods, but it feels abnormal to them, so they stop their meds. There are people whose condition is medication resistant. But, there are all sorts of medication combinations, that can be tried. This requires commitment to sticking out the time frames for the meds to get in your system, and following through with your psychiatrist.

Unless your WS gets into some counseling, in-depth counseling, I don't know that he will ever be able to attach to anyone on a long term basis, bi-polar or not. He had too many years of "practicing" non-attachment for childhood survival. This doesn't just go away with "enough love". Rather than deal with the survival fear of attachment, it's easier in some ways to just move on to the next source of love...and on....and on...and on.........If they feel like they're getting too close, too attached, they will often self-sabotage to set up a distancer, and "non-attach" again.

I'm so glad you're in therapy. It can feel pretty "crazy- making" to live this kind of relationship lifestyle. Intellectual understanding doesn't make it all go away. (If it did I would be one of the healthiest, sane people in the world! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) These survival skills are often pre-verbal...developed in early childhood. Developed when one feels powerless to protect themselves, change their world. Think of one of the worst days you've ever had in terms of fear and anxiety. That's a small taste of what they would feel if they started to acknowledge, feel and heal their attachment issues. While OCD has some brain chemical component, the rituals involved are thought to help ward off recognizing or feeling those underlying fears.

You are up against a very difficult situation. You've seen your husband when he's been a "better", more loving man. You know it's inside him somewhere. But, with the emotional and mental issues he's struggling with, the likelihood of that "man" coming back are diminishing over time.

Only you can decide how much you can handle. If you're similar to me, that will vary from day to day...or minute to minute! Take time at the end of each day to remind yourself of something positive you did that day for yourself. Even if you didn't change a thought or behavior, it may be progress that you didn't "back-slide" that day. Give yourself credit that you completed household tasks that day. Or that you did some good internal self-talk that day about yourself and the relationship, even if your feelings haven't changed much. Maybe you refused a phone call from your WS, or at least kept the conversation shorter than usual. My job coach would tell me "1% to 2% change is still change!"

Keep coming here for support. You deserve it!

Thanks, Heartmending-
WH has always been a quiet, moody, person with kind of a
negative perspective on life (sees the glass "half empty")
as long as I've known him (10 years), which I initially
figured was "just him". (he was on no meds)
Three years into our marriage (and five years after getting together) he was screened for depression during an annual physical, and was diagnosed with having depression and OCD. They had him start meds, and since then he's been on 7-8 different AD's. I notice that his moods seem more stable on any of them than with no meds, but he says he can tell no difference, hence he talks to the Dr and they try another. He's also not liked the side effects on some, re: one made him gain weight, one made him so sleepy he couldn't stay awake,etc.
At the time they started him on meds, they also suggested he
do counseling. He has been very resistant to that (he does'nt like talking in general, and especially not about
feelings and personal issues) but did give it a try with
two different psychiatrists. One was into everything being related to the "inner child", and one was very "freudian"
and wanted WH to come three times a week to analyze everything from birth- both turned him off and he hasn't been willing to go since.
Earlier this year, WH tried another AD, something which is
a brand new medication. He took it for 3 months, which was
to be long enough to get it "in the system" and see how it
worked. During this time, I thought WH's behavior seemed
even more erratic than normal, although some of this might
have been the A FOG. When he finished the initial 3 mos
trial, WH elected to go off the meds "cold turkey", and has
not gone back on any meds since- because he feels nothing
helps and that he feels just the same when off them, as when on. (to me though, he is more grouchy, more moody, and is more easily agitated, and less patient when on nothing).

With everything else that was going on, I started reading and researching about mental health and thought it sounded like WH "fit" the profile of numerous disorders including bi-polar, SA, narcisstic, etc. (although I'm sure most of
us have some characteristics that fit some of these profiles).
Since starting my IC, I have told IC of WH's behavior and
history and she has felt he definitely has issues, although hard to determine exactly what- he seems to be "all across
the boards". She does feel he has a very "addictive" type
personality (described as "push-pull"), and fits the traits
of OCD for sure- what else she really can't say-
I just have wondered if he has been mis-diagnosed and really might be bi=polar, so has been taking the wrong
kind of medicines and been treated wrong for his disorder ?
Wonder if the depression is more a result of frustration with his other issues, instead of the "source" ?
I also wonder if I am giving more "credit" to whatever his
disorders are than are actually in play here ?

IC has suggested WH really needs to be evaluated to see exactly what his issues are and to develop the proper meds and treatment plan, and I've gently suggested this to WH.
So far, he has not been interested. I also have recently
said "wouldn't you like to get a counselor" and while he
hasn't done it, he has not totally rejected the idea.
I think he knows something is not right, but he either is
scared of finding out what, dreads treatment, or has other resistance to it (maybe as you've said- he likes the "high"
side).

You sound like you are have dealt/are dealing with a similiar situation ? I'd love to hear about your situation.
I know that I can't "fix" H, but sure would like to help him want to "help himself", if possible. I guess I still
keep a little hope because I do see "glimpses" of the
"old" H who was a loving, caring, kind, more "normal"
person !
You are very right about changing from "day to day" and
"minute to minute". I have been trying to treat myself well,
work on developing more a life without WH, and not let
myself get drawn into some of his "drama". (All the events
last week were WAY too much drama for me).

The rest of yesterday was okay, although I felt very tired and extremely down. I just assumed that was due to last
week's "revelations" and my fighting a cold too. WH stopped by in the afternoon to show me the outfits he bought for
his D12 birthday, picked up some fall clothing, and played with the dog. I was surprised to see that he also took his
wedding ring (which has been at home in the jewelry box for
a couple of months). Don't know if that meant anything ~

I called WH in the evening and left a message, relaying a
phone message to him. He called back to say thanks and
acknowledge it- didn't talk talk for long.

Did some "self talk" to remind myself that nothing has really changed. Maybe WS is no longer with OW or maybe he
is trying to get back with her. Maybe WS has already found someone else to hook up with. Maybe WS really is taking time and living alone to think about things and what he
wants to do, but I'm still doing my own thing, and am
reminding myself to stay detached-
I'll do my best today to do a good job at work, will go to
rehearsal tonight (I sing in a group) and will try to get some extra sleep.
Slammed

This is the enabler's fantasy. You are too close in to provide the help that he needs.

It's nice he wears his wedding ring. It's nice that he stopped by.

But none of these are any indications that he is grappling with his issues.

I would guess he is coming to you because he knows the welcome mat will be out, and right now he could use one. It's all about him. Again.

Slammed
I know this site is intended to help recover any M that might have hope and it's hard to judge which ones do. Your WH sounds like a nightmare. I'm afraid for you and the OW. It sounds like he has been a little more kind to OW and she may be less of a threat.

Just one person's opinion, but I think this person sounds like someone to distance yourself from as much as possible. I'm sure you didn't spend time in this post telling of the wonderful things he has done but the word "creepy" stood out in your post to me.

Keep yourself safe. Does he have a key to your house? Do you have people close by if you need help or get scared? Does anyone know about what he's been doing that knows you personally? Maybe he's in a fog or maybe this is the REAL person he is. I think you deserve better and could find happiness if you can move beyond this sick person.

MWC

A.M.- thank you for your reply.
I guess I originally thought that really loving H, being a
"super" wife who took care of everything, and being loving
and supportive would be enough incentive to make H want to
be a good H in a good M, but obviously that hasn't been the
case. I guess I will never understand how a person would want to continue life feeling miserable and unhappy, hurting
other people, and leaving a path of destruction behind them,
and not realized and been willing to get help, but then again I've never had an addiction controlling my life.

I do feel like WH is grappling with his issues, but whether
or not that will bring about any change, I don't know.
I have seen him struggling in the past, like he's really
been trying, but apparently he hasn't been able to keep it up.
I realize that him wanting to live alone to "think about things" could be true, or could just be a ploy to keep in
touch with OW, or try to hook up with someone else.


Married with Children- Thanks for the support and thoughts.
WH's behavior has been horrible and I hate the things he's
done, but I do still love the person. I am very tired though, of having to worry, "second-guess", analyze and
try to figure out what H is doing, if he's being honest,
if he's on the internet, if he's on the phone, where he is,
etc and found it much more comfortable to me to be able to
detach from that and do my own thing. I realize, though,
that we can't just be seperated and in "limbo" forever,
and decisions are going to have to be made to resolve our
R one way or the other.
I am not scared of WH- I know I've probably made him out to
sound like a monster, but in person he's just acts like a
"normal" person and is not violent. He does have a key to
our house and I can't legally change the locks since he is
a co-owner. He hasn't come over though, unless hes told/asked me in advance. He's not been there much except
to drop off receipts, pick up his mail, get belongings, etc.
I do have lots of good friends and family here in case I
need help, and my best friends do know what is going on.
I don't know if his behavior is all FOG, his mental issues,
or a mixture of both, and I don't know if he can ever be
back to "normal" again, and that's what makes this so hard.
I am trying to think forward to a time when I won't have to
deal with all this and find some positive, but it's sure
hard. Today I am filled with confusion and sadness.
Slammed

There is a book I have read, that you simply must read, called "Women Who Love Too Much". Go to amazon.com and order this book TODAY. It really helped me - and I think it is exactly what you need right now.

This comment of yours:


this is really huge. That book applies to this thought process.

It has been awhile since I have read the book, so it will be hard for me to paraphrase it right now, but it basically talks about how women are "relational" and we tend to feel like our success comes from having successfull relationships. We will stay in a bad realtionship for way too long in the hopes that we can fix it - or fix him. One reason we do that is that perhaps we had a bad realtionship years ago - perhaps even with a parent - and as an adult we try to "fix" our adult relationships to make up for that bad one in the past that we could not "fix". It also talks about how we sometimes stay with a man that we are trying to "control" by loving him, and supporting him, trying to make him become a good H and trying to force him to participate in a good M, when in reality, that just isn't the life he wants.

In my case, I don't beleive that I was a "Woman Who Loved Too Much" with my WxH, but I do think this book saved me from making a big mistake in another R that I got into, right after my D. I got involved with a man who was all ready putting me thru the whole rollercoaster. He would call me every day for a week - then he wouldn't call at all for a week. I had all ready decided that he was just "hurt" from his own D and that I would be the one to turn him around, and save him from himself. I tolerated a lot of crap from that man, and I made excuses for it all. After I read that book I realized I was trying to save this R becuase I felt like I had failed in my M. I came to realize this other guy was just not good for me! I realized that I would be beter off in "no relationship" instead of spending every day wondering if this guy was going to call, and did he really love me but juat didn't say so, etc.

Once I finally cut myself loose from that, and decided to start healing myself, instead of everyone else, I eventually met, and married, a wonderful man! My new H is always kind, I don't have to tip toe around his moods, he treats me with respect, I never have to guess what he is feeling about me.

Slammed, please heal yourself. Quit making excuses for your WH. Yes, he is self medicating with OW. Yes, he is depressed, and meds would likely help. But right now he is not struggling with his issues the way you wish he was. You hope that he is saying to himself "I want to be a better H" I suspect he is actually thinking "I need to find another OW quickly, becuase this one is cutting me loose!"

Slammed
After reading my post to you I feel I was a little judgmental and made it sound like it should be easy to detatch yourself from him, which I know it's not.

After last night my WH sounds like more of a nightmare and more callous than yours. I just found out that he was on a "date" with the OW. People that we both knew saw them together and told me. When I confronted him about this he was very self absorbed with little concern about my feelings.

I can't tell you what happens to a person that is dealing with mental issues when a "normal" person can go through such a change. I don't recognize this person anymore and that scares me. It gives me NO motivation to rebuild our marriage. I know how "limbo" feels. We have been there about 3 months since D day. Sometimes it seems that it would be better to know it won't work than to continue hoping it might.

The one thing that I said in my original post that I stick by is that it is hard for any of us "to know whether the M is worth saving or not".

I pray that your WH comes to see how important he is to you before you loose all feeling for him. You might let him know that this will eventually happen and it scares you because you care so much about him.

Good luck.
MWC

Thanks MWC,
It surely is a nightmare for all of us, dealing with these
WS that become "totally different people" !
How much of my WH's current behavior and actions are his A fog, and how much are his mental issues, I just don't know.

One of the things that has made it hard for me to detatch
from my WH has been knowing the "old" him who was loving,
kind, sensitive, and really seemed to be making an effort
in our M. I feel like I see "glimpses" of that once in
awhile and that makes me think the "real" him is still in
there, but don't know if he will ever be whole again and
don't how long I can wait.

My feelings have been so up and down just in the past week,
which I suppose is totally normal given all the information
I found out from OW, more lies that were confirmed, feeling
a bit of hope for a couple days, then going back into the
"limbo" mode.
I am sorry that your WH is also very insensitive about your
feelings- seems like they just think they are in some kind
of magical "bubble" where everyone and everything revolves
around them and there are no consequences !

Despite all his horrid behavior and showing absolutely no concern or care towards me or our M, my H still has moments where he seems like he doesn't want to lose me. I told him last night that I would honor his request to be left alone so he can "think" about things and decide what he wants to do. I told him it seems to me that he has already made his decision and that I need to get used to being without him and getting on with life on my own. He seemed to "back
peddle" some and said "it's fine if you want to call me,
and fine if we talk", he just didn't like to ask a lot
of questions or ask him the same things over again" (about
our R). Said he wasn't 100pct decided and that he did know
he had to make a decision because we couldn't stay in limbo
forever. He also called just before bed, to basically say
the same thing. It felt good, of course, I also had to
remember that he may have went to lunch, dinner, or spent
the evening with the )?)FOW or even someone new.

Havent talked today, and I won't call him. I'm worn out
and just want to have a peaceful evening with the dog,
a book, and a bath.
Best wishes to you and hang in there too !
Slammed

He doesn't need time to "think" about things. The Harleys point out that that is a red flag for wanting to spend more time with OPs.

I don't know that that is true, but it would be unwise to ignore it.

This is something I'm afraid of- but don't know what to do
about it.

To recap the recent events:
OW called me Thurs to say she had kicked WH out. (he said
he broke it off with her). He spent the night in the guest
room at our house. The next day, he got his belongings from
her house, rented a "room" at a place near the house he is having renovated and called several times, telling me all
about it, asking if I would want to see it, etc.

Although I wasn't sure I wanted him to come home, I did
wonder about why he didn't ask or apparently want to come
back home ? I am nervous about him staying alone, as he is
not good at entertaining himself, so wonder what he would
be doing ?

Sat. we talked several times, but he didn't want to do
anything together. Sun. he called too, and stopped by in
the afternoon, but didn't want to do anything together.
When I asked about his feelings/plans, he said he needed
time to decide what he wanted to do, and think about things.

He says he is not having contact or trying to get back with
OW, but I am not totally confident about this. I do believe
he is out of her house. With him knowing she has called me,
I wonder if he is avoiding getting together with me, for fear she may be checking up on him ? She has not called me since last week.
Or- perhaps he is not with me or the OW, and has hooked up
with someone new-

Guess I had a brief couple days of hope, knowing the A had
apparently ended and thinking it might lead him to want to
reconcile, but since he hasn't gone that way, I know don't
know exactly what to think.

I've been not calling, not contact him, and just trying to
do my own thing, which makes me less anxious but doesn't
seem to be producing any results, if any are even possible.
Any thoughts ?

Slammed,
It sounds like your H is far from reconsiling...

Nevertheless, I am sorry if this will be harsh, but reading your posts it just sounds like you really want him back and if he said today that he wants to come back you would say ok....I may be wrong...either way, do you have a plan incase he does decide to come home?...

Look, I read your posts and there is so much distrust there...you don't trust that he is not with OW...then even if he is not with OW, you don't trust that he is not with another OW...do you have a plan to deal with this!?

Sorry, don't mean to be harsh, but it is something I have been thinking about myself. A couple of months ago I was at a place, where I would have been happy if H said I am coming back home. Now, I am not so sure. I still want him to work on the M, but I have so many issues to work out (and so does he) that I don't want him living with me now (if he was to say he wanted to)...I have some conditions!

I know you want to reconcile, but be careful that you don't have a false recovery if WH comes back...just worried about you...

{{{{{{slammed}}}}}}}

Daisy

Thanks Daisy-
It's so hard to know what to do or what kind of a plan to
make. I kind of thought I had figured out WH's "mindset"
for awhile there, until all the changes last week- like
OW calling, the supposed break up of the A, and WH moving
out to his own place. Now my mind is in a "jumble" and I
have no clear ideas of what WH is thinking or feeling, and
I feel totally out of my "comfort zone".

After finding out that the A had supposedly ended, I guess
I expected WH would say he wanted to reconcile and come back
home and have been surprised that he didn't. This is what
makes me wonder if he is still trying to get back with OW
or if he is in pursuit of another OW. Makes it hard to know if I should be going back to more of a "Plan A" , trying to
show him that things/people can change and that it could
be possible to have a new and improved M, or if I need more
of a "Plan B", to see if it "forces" him to make a choice ?
(have never exactly done the Plan A/B due to involvement
of some possible mental issues/addictions).

To me, it appears that he is "fence-sitting". We talk to
each other, but he doesn't seem to want to do anything together (why?) Then when I really back off, he seems a little panicky and bothered. For example- he called me Mon
afternoon in regards to some bills and paperwork. I tried
to say or ask something about our R, and he was very short
and grouchy about it- said "this is why I don't like to talk
to you" and hung up aggravated.
I called back and left a message saying - "I was sorry I
had tried to talk to him about our R. That I had felt like
we had so much potential, still cared about him, and could
have had a fresh start, but that he had apparently made his
decision and I would be leaving him alone, would just work
on getting used to not counting on him or having him in my
life".
Immediately- he called back and left me a message- Said "it wasn't that we couldn't talk, and it was fine for me to call him anytime, he just didn't like me to ask a lot of questions, because he was trying to "work on his things", think about things, did "miss" some things (about us) and had not made a decision".
I went on to an evening event, and after I got home and
was getting ready for bed (3 hrs later) he called. Said pretty much the same thing as his message.

Yesterday, I emailed him the list of monthly bills, so he
could transfer funds over from his business account to our
checking account- strictly a business-like message.
Didn't hear anything from him during the day. Went home
after work, changed, and took the dog out for a walk.
Phone was ringing when I walked back in the house and it
was WH- saying "where have you been ?" Said he had tried
the house a couple of times, as well as my cell phone !
I said I'd just come back from walking the dog. He said
he'd been over checking on the house he is having renovated.
While on the phone, I also passed along a message that his XGF had called, asking if he would please call their daughter for her birthday (which was yesterday) then he said "OK" and we hung up. Went on with my evening, and later Wh called to ask phone number to call his daughter (which I have given him more than once recently). Said
he was at his "room" and just watching tv at that time.

Today, WH has called in regards to the bill list and some
money he is tranferring. I asked if he wanted to eat lunch
with me, but he said he was too busy today.

I'm kind of stuck, not knowing if it's better to keep on
trying to show some interest (in case that "shows him a
way home"), or to not show interest- or whether or not
either is even going to matter.

Like you, I do wish WH would work on the marriage, and I
definitely want him to work on his issues. I don't know if
he really is attempting too, or if he is saying this as a
"stall" or just a cover to deal with OP. With all the
distrust, it would definitelly be hard to have him at home
unless he was actively and sincerely working on things
and doing counseling- among other boundaries.

I'm not feeling very hopeful about all this, and don't
want to stay in "limbo" forever- it's just so hard to be
up and down all the time- some days with hope, and some
days totally without. I think I'd just rather end things
and be in the path to recovery alone than have a false
recovery and go back through all the drama ! (probably
you too).
Slammed

This is where I've been since the end of July. These WS send such confussing messages. It's strange how alike they all seem though. After telling my husband that I felt we had no hope of restoring our marriage after he was seen in public on a "date" with the OW, my husband has called to check on our daughter, to chat, to invite me to eat with him at a reopened restraraunt we went to when we first started dating, came to my Dr.s appointment to see how the baby is coming along.....

Why does he do all this when I'm ready to give up? I'm not sure but I'll tell you that your feelings do start to change slowly for them. I "loved" him as much as I always had when I found out about the A. I was just very hurt, disappointed and shocked. That love is changing the more I catch him in the lies that you were talking about. They can't be too honest or they wouldn't have been cheating on their wives.

One good thing about the place that I am at is that I'm not hurting as deeply as I was because my love has changed for him. I still find it hard to be cold and distant to the person I spent 16 years thinking I knew. I don't know if that person will ever return and I'm sure he never fully can. He was such a loving husband and father.

I'm not sure WHERE the point of no return is for salvaging a marriage. I'm afraid we're there. I at one time couldn't imagine us NOT getting back together and thought we were meant to grow old together. Now I can't imagine us getting back together and being able to make it work.

I hope your WH doesn't let things go that far with your M. You have no children together, right? That is a blessing, yet at the same time my daughter has been my sunshine to bring a smile and happiness these days.

I have wondered myself if my husband is having some sort of mental issues so I can't even imagine how confusing it must be for you.

Good luck!
MWC

Plan A and Plan B are irrelevant.

Slammed, what we've been trying to tell you is that this is not an MB situation at present. He has pre-existing problems and sexual addictions that preclude ANY reconciliation.

If he comes home, it will be as a pit stop, and not as a commitment. Then you are likely to go through this whole cycle again, because nothing has been solved.

Whatever problems your marriage had, they are dwarfed by his personal problems. "Plan A" is to show that whatever problems created the climate for the affair -- you are willing to work on them. It makes no sense here, because the issues are not yours. HE has to make a commitment to working out his problems, or YOU will be pulled into his maelstrom.




Exactly. You are stuck. You need to pull out of this mess and move on with your life. If he wants to sign on, he will have to win his way back into your life, with real changes.

You don't want him coming home till he has solved his issues.

You need to back out of this drama.

The Harleys are quite clear that MB doesn't work with addicts and the mentally unbalance.

And please protect yourself from this mess.

Thanks, A.M.,
I know that my situation doesn't really fit the "mold" to
follow the MB principles, but it has still been a great
help for me to read of other's situations and find a lot
of support in the MB community.

While it has been very hard to know how much of WH's "fog"
and eratic behavior are the A and how much might be mental/
emotional problems or addictions, WS has frequently talked/
operated on the same "script" of many of the WS here ~
so having some insight of what's "behind the scenes" or
what might be coming up have been helpful too.

WH has been diagnosed with depression and/or OCD, but the
possible other issues such as SA, bi-polar, etc, have only
been "diagnosed" or speculated on by me- who is not a mental
health expert by any means (just a BS wanting to understand
WS !)

Last night, WH told me he was interested in knowing what
our insurance would cover as far as counseling, and would like a list of the authorized providers (we just changed to new insur). Today I have gotten that information and faxed it to him. Doesn't guarantee he will do anything with it, but it made me feel {slightly} encouraged that he knows he needs to do something and might take a step that direction.

Other than that- nothing really new. He acts like he is
planning on staying in his new "place" until the house he
is having renovated is ready (another 30 days or so).
I asked if he wouldn't like to get a small microwave for
his "place", and he said he didn't want to spend the money,
which I found quite humorous considering the enormous amount
of money he's spent/charged on "entertaining" the Ow !!!
Even though he is in his own "place", I feel pretty certain
at this point that he is either talking to the (F)OW and/
or other of his internet "friends".

I find it easiest to just do my thing and to be as detached
as I can be, so I am out of the drama. Right now, I'm just
doing my best to work, take care of the house, yard, dog,
be kind to myself, keep up my IC, and think/read/pray about
H and situation.
I appreciate continued support, thoughts,ideas, and prayers.
Slammed

Dear Slammed,

ANY conversation with your WH will be hurtful to you now or in the future. He will not hear through the fog.

You will just end up feeling bad later about what you said, didn't say and could have said differently.

OW is not your friend. She doesn't have your or your H's best interests at heart. All She cares about is Herself. Do not talk to her. I found out the hard way. Don't be me.

Change the locks,(if you LOST your key you would have to change the locks right?)call a different lawyer and go to
plan B set the boundries now.

you are in my prayers tonight,
VTY

Thanks VTY- I agree that I don't get anywhere with trying to
talk to WH- he is too foggy and I don't trust what he says to be honest anyway !
Once in awhile when I think of something I want WH to know,
like how much this all hurts, how much I miss our old life,
how much he is losing, that I still love him, etc. I stop myself because I realize that he does already know these things. They haven't stopped him from the lies and affair,
they haven't made him decide to get counseling or work on
the M, and there isn't any point in my saying them- so I
just write them in my journal instead !

I haven't heard any further from OW. I don't know if this is
a sign that WH is still involved with her, is NOT involved
with her, or if she got all she wanted from me when she
called last week. She talked real "big" about not needing
"a man", being such a "strong, independent, successful, and
attractive person as she is" and about not having much
vested in relationship with WH, but I'm sure she might be
missing him as her "sugar daddy" (since she hooked up with
him thinking he was a wealthy bachelor, I think the $$$ is
what she was looking for). He on the other hand, may have
had some days of withdrawal last week (the day he moved
to his own place, felt "weird", called me alot) and that
may have motivated him to contact her, beg him way back
to get some attention or a "bootie call". Even if he
gets back with her I don't see if lasting long- as now
that she knows he lied, is not divorced, is not wealthy,
etc. I'm sure she will be suspicious, watching, and
monitoring his every move. (she was already getting into
his cell phone and listening to messages)- so big LB's.
If not with her, (or maybe even with) I wouldn't be surprised if he is also talking to others of his little internet "connections".
I do have Caller ID on the home phone now, so will not be
getting any "surprise" calls- if she tries again.

I'm in a "limbo" state but realize I can't keep this up too
much longer. My IC has said there is no guideline or set
timeframe she can give me, but that I'll know when I've
had enough and decide to give up. Getting to that point is
the hard part- lots of empty hours, lonliness, sadness,
things that could have been done differently or better by
me in our M, feelings of failure, feelings of having wasted
10 years of my life and having nothing to show for it.
I think my depression has gotten worse in the last week, partly because of the passing of time (feeling like the longer we are seperated, the less likely we would ever
get back together), plus the upcoming of holidays making
me feel more sad about the situation.

Although we are not exactly fitting in the MB "mold", I am
basically doing a Plan B now. I can file a legal seperation
although haven't done so both because I'd have to pay the
filing fee, and because the lawyer advised there isn't much
point in doing one unless WH starts to balk about paying the
bills and expenses.Fortunately, he has been good about that.
I can change the locks, but would be required to give WH a
new key, as I am not legally allowed to keep him from the
house (he is co-owner). He rarely comes over, and when he
does advises me ahead, so hasn't really been a problem-
(he comes to pick up his mail, drop off receipts, pick up
other clothing, etc.)
Thanks for the prayers- I need them for sure. I think of
and pray for the others here too- so sad that so many are
in such situations.
Slammed

Although my WH has depression and possibly other mental/
emotional issues which complicate the A and my situation,
I do find that WH frequently follows the same "script" as
many of the WS here.
Since the OW called me (two weeks ago tomorrow) and the A
was "exposed", my WH and OW have supposedly broken up.
WH moved out of her house and into a room by himself in
a different part of town.
WH has said he realizes that he can't be "married, but
acting like he isn't" (sounds like a good description
of cake-eating out of his own mouth, huh ?) and he is
trying to "think about things, work on his issues" while
he is living alone. I definitely do agree that WH needs
to be working on his many issues before "we" can even
possibly get anywhere, and encourage him to get to the
bottom of his "issues", but I am also skeptical about
him living alone, in case he is just using it as a way
to keep contact with OW or start up with someone new.
At least not living with OW is an improvement.

Last week, WH asked if I could let him know what our
insurance would cover as far as counseling. (just got
new insurance plan). I got the details on coverage, and
sent him a list of the "network providers" he could use
and am hoping and praying he will take the step to start
getting some help.

Did not hear from Wh during the day on Fri. and did not try
to contact him either. I was watching a movie Fri night
when OW called my house- twice ! (about an hour apart).
Thanks to the Caller ID I just had turned on last week, I
was able to avoid taking the calls, but am curious why she
was calling. I assumed a couple of things- one being that
WH was not out with her that night, or she wouldn't have
called, and that she must at least have some contact with
WH or wouldn't have any reason to call. (I wondered if WH
is trying to still see her and is telling her that he and
I have no contact and she was trying to get verification
from me !) Perhaps not reaching me made her think WH was
out with me or there at the house, because she didn't
leave a message !
Later than night, WH called me. Didn't say much about what
he had been doing that evening, but was back at his "room"
by a little after 10pm. I didn't tell him that OW called-
as he doesn't know I added the Caller Id and didn't want
to let him know that just now.

Sat morning, WH called to "touch base" as he often puts it.
Said he was going to run some errands and would talk to me
later. A couple hours later, he called from the store,
asking my opinion on what microwave he should buy- ?
This made me laugh, as originally he said he didn't want
to spend any money to buy a microwave - after all the
ton of money he's spent on entertaining the OW !!!
I did like that he was buying it because it makes me feel
like he does intend to stay at this rented room and not
move back with OW(the room did not have cooking facilities).
Didn't talk to him the rest of the day-

Yesterday, WH called early. Asked if I'd like to come see
the place he's staying, and go over to the house he is having renovated. The room was nice- just very "impersonal"
and hotel like. The house had a lot of improvements and was
coming along nicely, but didn't know exactly what to say-
he originally bought it to "rehab" and sell, but lately
has said he intends to keep it and live in it. The funny
thing is that he asked my opinion on colors, some of the
interior renovations, and is putting in things like an
oval soaking tub, water fountain the back yard, and hot
tub outside- all things I love and we discussed as items
for our future "dream house". While there, he got a phone
call and went outside to talk. When he came back, I asked
if it was OW, and he said yes. I asked why they were still
talking if they had broken up, or were they back together ?
He said they had broken up, but still talked a little and
were "friends", and she was upset because her horse was
sick. I kept my cool, didn't want to LB, but just said, "well she certainly isn't someone I'd consider a friend - to you or to our marriage".
Afterwards, we went out to breakfast and had a pleasant time. I was really happy to hear that WH has a job offer
to go back to his old job. He left there in April and has
been trying to do his own business since, which has been
very difficult on our budget. He sounds like he is thinking
of going back, and still doing the start up business "on
the side'. This seemed like a bit of an improvement, and
maybe an indicator he was coming a bit out of the fog !
I left to run errands and head home, and he said he'd e over to our house later to do his laundry, get his mail, visit the dog, etc. I went about the rest of my normal day, but was very surprised and somewhat concerned as he never did show up or call the rest of the day.
My concern was that OW's call and their "friendship" may
have led him to go over to see her and ended up being an
all day "get back together" !!?

Haven't heard from him today and am not making the move to
contact him. I am enough used to being detached from him
that I don't react as emotionally and get as upset as I
used to, and don't feel particularly hopeful that things
will work out, but I guess there's always a little spark of hope when I see some slight improvements- like him letting
me see his rental place, the rehab house, going out to eat,
being a little more honest about him talking to OW, saying
he wants to get a counselor, etc. but still a LONG way to
go.
Guess I just wanted to vent and always appreciate input
thoughts and prayers from everyone.
Slammed

Slammed,


I am not sure how much you mean this or not, but if you really do then it has me worried a bit.

I am in a similar situation, H comes and goes as he pleases, sees me for several days in a row then does not call for a week....frastrating....

I see the same in your posts, but I as yet do feel emotional (I don't show him anything) but I do find the situation frastrating and am trying to give him more time, but I know that this cannot go on for long.....I cannot have this turn into the norm! I don't want to be married and at the same time my H is out there doing whatever then comes to 'hang out' at my house and then hits the rode like the police were after him within moments after the movie is over.....I tell myself that I don't want to rush things and that I can give this some more time....but I know that this cannot go on for too long....

I may be wrong but when I read those lines I was worried that you are accepting this as that is how our M is now (as the norm)..... I hope that is not the case...I guess I saw a lot in your post that reminded me of my case.....

Also, I wish that dam woman would stop calling you!!! Cause now, you wonder why she is calling and then if she does not you'll wonder why did she stop and will she call again in 2 weeks.....I really think she is a B***h....sorry, but she really makes me angry because she just does not get it that contacting you is hurting you.....that whatever she sais (positive or negative) you will question....so why not just leave you alone! Arrgggg! Makes me mad.....

Slammed, try not to think too much about what is going on with you WH and OW.....you cannot know....

Best to you....

Daisy

Hi Daisy ~ nice to hear from you again !
Our H's have seemed so similiar, and you and I in much
of the same "boat" with H's who "come and go", call or
not, that I really think you know how I feel.
I too, have been willing to give WH some time to try
to figure things out, but know that I can't keep
going like this too much longer either ~
I didn't mean to say I was accepting the situation or
okay with things as they are- I am very frustrated,
disappointed, hurt, and just really worn out with it all,
but I have "detached" enough that I know now not to take
it personally, take the "blame", or try to figure out
what things mean since there is no apparent logic in WH !
More than anything in the world, I want WH to work on our
M and I want my old H back, but don't know if the he can
ever come back or is gone for good !

Today, I did finally call WH, as I got truly worried last
night that he hadn't shown up all day after saying he would
come over. He was defensive at first, saying he had watched
football, just didn't feel like going out later due to bad
weather, but then did say he was sorry- would have been more
considerate to have called and let me know. Talked a little
about the nice time we had together yesterday, and he said
he had been hesitant about having me come see his "place",
and come see the progress on the house renovations, because
he was "damned if he did, damned if he didn't". Asked what
he meant by that and he said he knew this was hard for me,
didn't want to hurt me,didn't want to send "mixed messages"
by doing things or not. I said I wasn't getting a message
either way, but just wanted him to be honest about things
including whether or not he was still involved with OW.
He then made reference to him still being upset that I had
talked to OW. I reminded him that SHE had called me, and
said she was the last person I wanted to talk to again
because she was not a friend of me, our marriage or even
him. He said it was hard to know who was a friend or not
(between her or me) and I said "no, it really isn't".
(Guess this means he still has some hard feelings about his
being exposed, and my bursting the "fantasy bubble" of the
A).
He said he knew I thought "all this" was easy for him, but
that it wasn't- it was far from easy. I said I knew that, but that he had elected to act the way and do the things
he had done, and I had not had a choice in the matter.
He said- "at least you have the house to live in". I said
yes, but he could be there and had elected to move out.
Said it wasn't easy for me, especially with holidays coming
and not even knowing what was happening in my life or where
I'd be in a few months...
H said he just needed to be left alone and have a chance to
think, work on his own issues- and I said fine, that's what I am letting you do. I asked if he had worked on finding a
counselor yet and he said NO, but he might still have time
to make some calls today. (not holding my breath on him
doing this).

I hope I won't get any more calls from OW either.
The first call was enlightening with all the details and
information that verified lies the WH had told me, but
the more I thought about it afterwards, I regretted much
of what I had told WH, feeling like OW just wanted some
"ammo" she could use against WH, me or our H, and wanted
to find out my mindset and whether or not I'd take WH back.
I realized later, too, that OW is not the innocent victim
she tried to portray ! Now that I have the Caller Id,
I won't be taking any of her calls, and that will probably
put an end to her calling-

If you're like me, some days are just tougher than others,
(especially so when I'm tired) and today has been one of
them for me. It seems like you are doing well, and hanging
in there- I'm glad to listen for you anytime too.
Thanks,
Slammed