OK, this is going to probably come out wrong but what I hear you saying is Sure he's a fixerupper, but if I train him properly, there might be a chance for us.......

And I guess my question is after being through what you've been through why not get someone who's emotionally healthy and available to begin with?

OK,...... I've been a thorn in your side enough today and I'm gonna hit the road anyway....... I do apoligize for the "Farm Out" comment, obviously with the limited info I had, I shouldn't have jumped to that........

That was never really the issue. I wasn't DYING to pin him down. I would have been fine with ANY description, but I always felt off-balance cuz I didn't know what the ground rules were. Is it OK for me to date others? Do I have to tell you that I am? If I meet someone can I give them my number? Are you still shopping for someone else? If you go out with your friends are you still meeting other women and getting their phone numbers?

I just never really knew what was fair or unfair. And the frustrating part for me was that I would be OK either way I JUST WANTED TO KNOW! It was definetly not worth pursuing because I constantly got labeled as pressuring him.

[color:"red"] This is soooooo on the money it isn't funny!! He's never said I'm pressuring him...actually what he did say was that he "wasn't sure where he was with work and everything and that we needed to broach it again at a later date" and I dropped it at that. [/color]

OK, this is going to probably come out wrong but what I hear you saying is Sure he's a fixerupper, but if I train him properly, there might be a chance for us.......
And I guess my question is after being through what you've been through why not get someone who's emotionally healthy and available to begin with?

[color:"red"]This is so wrong on so many levels but I don't have the energy to mind set to get into this right now. I'll leave it at...Both of my ex-husbands were fixeruppers...been there done that not doing it again. J is a good guy and I'm probably more of a fixerupper than he is at this point.[/color]



OK,...... I've been a thorn in your side enough today and I'm gonna hit the road anyway.......[color:"red"] I do appreciate you caring enough to share you opinions with me..thank you![/color] I do apoligize for the "Farm Out" comment, obviously with the limited info I had, I shouldn't have jumped to that........[color:"red"] Thank you for apologizing..apology accepted [/color]

I interpreted allurin to mean that when she voices her concerns, as we all should do, he is responsive to her needs.

So after all is said and done, what is the plan?

You said:


So if you are not expecting exclusivity, will you still plan to have him exposed to your kids, and keep having sex with him?

I am worried that you are being a bit dishonest with yourself here - I don't think you will be happy in a non-exclusive sexual relationship, and that your new laissez faire attitude will last not more than a few days. Thoughts?

AGG

I interpreted allurin to mean that when she voices her concerns, as we all should do, he is responsive to her needs.

[color:"red"]Absolutely that's what I meant [/color]

So if you are not expecting exclusivity, will you still plan to have him exposed to your kids, and keep having sex with him?

[color:"red"] Yes and Yes. Mind you he doesn't stay the night with my kids here and my kids have not been to his home at all.[/color]

If I were you -- try this:

At one time I decided to change my tactics. Its darn near impossible to get those dreaded "relationship talks" started. I decided that rather than get these guys to communicate about expectations and crap -- I'd just lay it out there instead.

I'd say:
"Here's what I'm gonna do -- just see you and no one else, see how it goes, give it my best shot. I'm going to stop trying to meet other people, if someone asks for my number I'll tell them that I'm seeing someone. I'd like it if you did the same. What do you think?"

Then all they have to do is say yes or no. Makes it easier on these poorly skilled communicators! LOL

Are you going to be happy with that, or will you be building up resentment about how much you are giving to him without getting back what you want (exclusivity)?

I'll give them some thought Lexxy...thanks hon!!!

GG I am going to try my damnest to be happy with that. I can't predict what the outcome will be I can only hope for the best. If I get burned I have no one else to blame but myself. But at least I'll know I tried and it will be another lesson learned.

"Poorly skilled communicator" is an excuse guys use to make women think that they simply can't verbalize their thoughts. In reality, guys are perfectly aware of their thoughts.

When a guy is sleeping with a woman, but is also browsing dating sites, and not willing to commit to exclusivity with her, he is communicating quite clearly.

It becomes the woman's job to hear what he is communicating to her, instead of burying her head in the sand and hoping that he will change his thoughts or feelings.

AGG

BUT I am browsing dating sites too..with the only difference being I KNOW my intentions..which is just out of boredom but I can't read his mind when he's doing it. which is where the over analyzing comes to play.

The danger of this is he is getting what he wants without giving her what she wants, and what's going to make him change? What's going to push him off the fence?

allurin ALREADY said... EARLIER in this thread... that she was going to make some changes. It's easy for some of us to think that she needs to take a stance, stop sleeping with him, and force him to make a commitment or leave her. But that may not be the solution. She is going to make some adjustments and see how things go. That is MUCH better than "doing the same thing over and over expecting different results".

Just like you've already decided.... DO something different, allurin... k?

hugs,
Faith1

Usually by now knowing that this is his busy day and he won't be getting online until after 10pm I will have left him 3 or 4 offline messages on yahoo..I haven't left any today. It's hard not to...but I HAVE to do this.

Oh boy... hehe... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I agree that a woman can pick up on a man's heart by his actions... but it's also dangerous to assume ANYTHING. Assuming that one doesn't care much because he doesn't call as often as we'd like... or that he's clingy because he calls too much... etc etc... just 2 examples.

Is it a man's job to know that we'd LOVE for you to go hunting with your guy-friends this weekend, but we have a family birthday party to attend instead? No. You assume we don't care about your need to hunt with the guys, unless we SAY one way or another.

MOST men ASSUME too much, and DON'T communicate enough.

ASSUMING "she's knows I care about her". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> So they don't send flowers NEARLY enough. They don't make that short, sweet phone call in the middle of the day. And they don't communicate as relationships progress so that we KNOW where we stand. "Honey, I want you to know that I'm not looking at ANY other women. You have my full attention. I'm not saying I'm ready to get married or anything - don't get scared <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> - but I want you know that you mean a lot to me."

This is NOT our JOB to assume or pick up on this. Even though it may be what he's thinking.

In the case of allurin's guy, yeah, his actions pretty well show his commitment level, so she needs to accept it. When/if she's ready to ask him to get off the fence, she will. When she's ready to think more highly of herself and want his FULL attention or let him go, she'll ask him to stop looking around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But she really doesn't know what he thinks about her or their relationship... all she knows is that he looks at dating sites.

I don't think you are over analyzing at all.

I think you are working over time trying to rationalize away the red flags and warning signs, or, as I said earlier, to ignore what he is basically communicating to you.

You know that you want him more than he wants you. And, unfortunately, he knows it too. This is what I call a very uneven relationship, and usually those are doomed.

I am not preaching to you, Alluring, one of my worst relationships has been one very similar to yours, where I kept waiting and hoping for the woman I was dating to become "exclusive" with me. Unfortunately, I am sure that my feelings were well known to her, and so she was perfectly happy to be taken out, wined and dined, without giving anything in return, except empty promises. I tried to call her less or e-mail less, but I am sure it was very transparent, and she knew exactly how to reel me back in - all it took was one sweet phone call, and I was hooked again. Only when I finally found her browsing the dating sites did I pull my head out of where the sun didn't shine, and told her to go %(*^# herself. It was the most liberating and uplifting moment I had for the prior three months.

So I am just speaking from experience when I say that cutting back from 3-4 Yahoo messages is not likely to do the trick. IMO, you need to do something major to change the dynamics; not anything manipulative, but also something that will make the relationship more even. One place I would start is to NOT cancel your dating subscriptions, and to actually start going out on dates. Not to threaten or push your guy, but to start living your own life instead of waiting for him to "warm up" to you.

AGG

I agree. I never said she should assume anything. I said when a man is communicating, it is her job to hear what he is saying, not that it's her job to assume.

A man browsing the dating sites is communicating quite clearly that he is not exclusive with her. Ergo, any attempt to squeeze out promises of exclusivity from him is a sign that she is not hearing what he is telling her.

AGG

When she's ready to think more highly of herself and want his FULL attention or let him go, she'll ask him to stop looking around. [color:"red"] Talk about a kick in the a$$...LOL [/color] But she really doesn't know what he thinks about her or their relationship... all she knows is that he looks at dating sites. [color:"red"] and that's not crime...just a oranged flag...for all I know he could want an exclusive but is afraid to go there and is buying time for whatever reason...When it comes down to it...I'm not going anywhere...I don't expect him to be going anywhere so why not just enjoy what we have now and worry about having more as it progresses. And this conclusion only came with the help of everyone here helping me process my thoughts and pointing out things I may not have thought about which was what I was wanting...so Thank you to everyone from my heart.

Another thing that I've thought about as maybe his reasoning for not wanting exclusive is his recent (within a year) diagnosis of having MS and possibly not wanting to burden me with it although he knows that I am willing to stand beside him through this...my best friend in the world also has MS and between the two of them letting me ask questions and learn it's helped tremendously...Time will tell[/color]

One place I would start is to NOT cancel your dating subscriptions, and to actually start going out on dates. Not to threaten or push your guy, but to start living your own life instead of waiting for him to "warm up" to you.

[color:"red"] Actually I'm letting them go due to finances and the current lack of responses...not because of him. I would go out on dates if I had someone to go out with...you wanna come to Pennsylvania AGG??? LOL [/color]

That would be fine if you truly enjoyed what you have now, but your posts clearly show that you are frustrated with the situation.

My memories of my "uneven" relationship are still quite vivid, and I remember how many times I also tried to convince myself to just relax and enjoy things day by day, but I also remember that the pain and desperation of hoping for her to "warm up" almost never left my side.

I suspect, from your posts, that you too will not be able to be happy with the scraps he is giving you. I could be wrong, but your posts tell me otherwise.

AGG

Not if you are having sex with another guy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />