This is the question that needs to be answered FIRST!!

Ok, I am going to express my opinion and I'm kind of surprised that others haven't thought this also. Is or was your H having an affair? I know you said you did not think so, but for someone's personality to change so drastically like you say his did it makes me wonder. You describe a man who sounds mean and cold hearted, IMO. Not buying gifts, not sleeping in your bed, etc... Just something to consider.

Nothing excuses what you did. The A was wrong and leaving your husband was wrong. I would suggest marriage counseling if your H will go. That will be the only way to maybe get him to open up honestly. You are going to have to do A LOT of the work! Prove to him you want to be married and be a good wife. He is hurt by your A I am sure. At some point he will also have to put forth some effort if your marriage is going to work.

You will get a lot of good advice here. Just try to sort through it and use it to make your situation better.

Interesting ... but I suspect he is hurt and equally lost as to what the he ll to do in order to make his wife happy ...

and if he has experienced little or no admiration for his efforts ... most men quit trying

This is all interesting...and relevent to her finding out if she can save her marriage.

But, none of it should be discussed until she has revealed to her husband her infidelity and has sent a NC letter, vetted by her husband, to the OM.

All other talk and speculation is pretty much pointless until that happens.

In His arms.

Yeah, that's what I thought too...I said to my H, "please stop pushing me away"...what I never said was, "because I am about to have an affair"...no, I never gave him a voice in the choices I was making in our lives at all, just gave him half truths, and expected him to fix what was wrong in my thinking...bet you did the same, huh? I wish you the best, keep working on YOU and HONESTY...

Mrs. Wondering

Tiny - your story sounds so much like mine leading up to the A - except I never left and H and have worked through things and are doing great finally.

I got out of surgery (which by the way - anesthetics can lead to depression ya know) and H was going through so much - he ignored the things I was going through - i tried to tell him, beg him, but you know what - i am far enough away from OM and my A now that I see - I would approach him with the I feel, because you did attitude - it would raise his defensive wall and once that was up - I was ignored. So H ignored my attempts to change the marriage before I had an A, but can't you see some of that was my fault? I expected H to understand, listen, etc - WHILE I attacked him with the I feel, but you did...

You know what I do now - I approach him with the what can we do different as I am starting to feel and never make it about something he did - i choose my worlds and how I say things carefully and GUESS WHAT - H doesnt get defensive and so he listens and for once in 7 years we get things solved - not because he changed - but because I CHANGED!!!

First and foremost - you have to get away completely from OM - I know you aren't really "seeing" him like you used to...but it's important to completely be away from OM - otherwise you will never see things clearly (I know you may think you see it clearly now - but trust me on how clear things get once you finally let go of OM)

Start by reading the links in my signature - one is my story - one is a recovery guide.

Start looking at what you can change, and what you need to do - even if your husband never changed - you can change the way he reacts and behaves towards you by changing how you deal with him and approach him.

Thanks Dorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Pepperband & MM-- I have not communicated to H the nature of the affair.
Lost-- H is not mean or cold-hearted imo. He is just so detatched. Almost no tears during this whole process. I see emotion from him in other situations, but long ago and even now, I see no emotion at all. I can hear in his voice anger at times, but other than that....????
Mrs. Wonderings-- my communications to him about the problems I could see were not accusatory. I told him I was lonely... I need you.... I miss you... please share some time with me.... can you sleep with me tonight?.... pretty needy sounding, I know, but I didn't lay all this out in one big dump, I did not blame him for the way I felt. I just wanted him back. I asked him to open up to me and share with me "something, anything". I got either no response at all or he would tell me that I needed medication. At one point I was exasperated and told him to at least grunt to acknowledge that he heard me speak, that got a look, but nothing more. Mind you all of this was pre A as well. I could not see the A coming. Call me blind or stupid or whatever, I did not. I did not plan it out, like others I am sure. I don't want to give it the old "it just happened" line, but.... It WAS a conscious decision that I, and I alone allowed to happen. i know I am responsible for my actions whether they are right or wrong. Boy I have done some wrong too. I read someone on another post say that if Jack the Ripper would have paid them a little attention that would have been it, and I probably would have too. MY mistake and mine alone. So I admit it, isn't that a first step?
Dorry-- My thing was a minor op surgery (emergency tonsilectomy). He did go with me to the hospital and then dropped me off alone at the house while he went on to work at his job #2. That was on Thursday. Grandparents had the kids, so I was home alone for 4 days. he came home at night after I was asleep and went back the next morning. Did not even call to see if I was ok. He said if I needed anything, he figured I would call. I had some major complications, home for almost 3 weeks, he didn't even call to see if I was still alive. Due to his working so much, some days I didn't even see him at all. I just felt abandoned.... it was shortly after that the A started.
Tiny

"I have not communicated to H the nature of the affair."

imho, it is essential that you come clean for both you and him. It wouldn't be fair to him or yourself trying to reconcile with a polar bear-sized lie breathing down your neck all the time. What will you do when you feel reconciled and he finds out later the "nature" of your affair? All effort(s) will then be wasted.

I really don't see how you can expect trust from him unless you start doing your part to get his trust.

It's one of the hardest things you'll ever do but you'll be glad you did no matter what the outcome.

he's a MAN

that's how men are

stoic
strong

wouldn't it be terrible if he were weeping and hysterical and falling apart in a crisis?

I did not want or expect weeping and hysterical, but I also did not expect indifference. He has mad adn pitiful down pat, but anything else is non-existant.

Tiny

and you married him because you love him

"wouldn't it be terrible if he were weeping and hysterical and falling apart in a crisis?"

I've been shot at several times and have been in some very bad situations and not once did I weep or become hysterical.

But I cried like a baby when I found out about my wife's affair. I actually think I suffered a small nervous breakdown.

Well in my case it was pelvic reconstruction with a 1 week stay in a hospital and 3 weeks at my moms, then 3 weeks rest at home....H kept telling me it was no big deal and to tough it up - I had even lost my uterus in the surgery - didn't take any time to come down to be with me for the surgery - insisted that his partner needed him when in reality he didn't trust his partner to let him leave for 4 days or so...so I did it all on my own with parents...they took care of the kids... within months, the A started....

You know what recovery has shown me - H thought I was tough - he really thought he could worry about everything else and I would be fine - why? Because I have always given him the impression I was independent, tough, strong...never was as vulnerable with him as I really was...so guess what - he supported the family - work was #1 to him...and based on the illusion I gave him, he had no clue how much I really needed him....and when i tried to tell him - it didn't come off as I just need you right now it came across as - work is more important than me, why cant you do this for me, blah blah blah....making H feel like he does nothing right, while in fact he was working for ME and the family...see how saying things can change everything???

Have you really sat down and thought about how you have said things in the past - you may think you are a good communicator - heck I thought I was the best as I talk alot - i realized I was one of the worst communictors in the world - in fact I over talked things so no one ever really knew what I needed. It's been a very hard overhaul learning to communicate differently - but funny enough the world around me is changing....or is it just the effect of me changing??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You can't change your husband...he has to change - but the thing is - you married him for a good reason...people change - but the root of us is always the same - you do love him, he loves you - and honestly - you rejected him (yes he rejected you - but trust me - it's not the same as this betrayel) and now he just wants to know that you love him for him - even if he failed at making changes - could you love him...that's what he wants to know...are you showing him that?

Meanwhile the only person you can change is you...you are still early on - as you still have contact with OM, and you are still partially blaming your husband whether you think you are or not...blaming him for neglect, etc...but like FL said - in alot of cases - you allowed what you allowed...You could have stopped the neglect anytime had you known how to...but you didn't take the initiative to figure out how to, instead you had an affair...so how bout you try it the right way this time...and trust me - you will get very different results...it'll hurt, it;ll take time, but it's worht it - changing yourelf...

One of the things I picked up in the conversation is Tiny's husband telling her that she needs medication.

<<<Guilty of doing the same (in the past anyway)

I use to fear my wifes emotions because I felt responsible for them, but I couldn't handle the responsibility. So my answer was maybe you need to see the doctor about some medication. I had a mother who abused me emotionally and made me responsible for her emotions growing up. Naturally I felt I always had to take control for my wife's emotions, but there reached a point where I could no longer deal with them. So new answer, take medication. Of course now I know I'm not responsible for her emotions and I have learned to deal in a different way. The conversation is focused on Tiny, but I think her husband also has some things he can learn as well.

I am glad you are able to get this all out here. And I think you do have some valid issues. But you still have not said when yo uare going to do the first two things that are absolutely necessary...that are required before doing ANYHTING else:

1. Tell your husband everything;

2. Send NC letter to OM, after husband approves it.

So, I am still askign when this is going to happen. Once you do these things, only then can we help you and only then can your marriage issues be addressed with any hope of doing anything about them.

In His arms.

Pepperband wrote:


Wow, Pep, you sure know how to push an FWW's buttons. Pep, didja happen to catch how the behaviors her H displayed happened BEFORE the A even started? He ignored her, repeatedly (BIG LBs), moved out of their bed (another LB), and did nothing for her after her surgery (sounds LBish to me). All these show a total lack of care for her. She made every effort to communicate to him that she felt there were problems in the M. His response: to tell her to go get some meds (another BIG LB).

He ignores her pleas for help, treats her like a doormat, implies that she is mentally ill, and now, he feels it's perfectly okay to verbally abuse her in front of the kids, yet she is supposed to express ADMIRATION? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I don't see an awful lot to admire here, Pep, but perhaps I am missing something. Perhaps other BSs might pipe in here and say whether they, too, feel it is admirable for a BH to abuse his WW because she had an A.

Tiny has acknowledged that the A was wrong, she has acknowledged that she needs to go NC, yet Pep and MM and others continue to vilify her. And we wonder why so many WSs get scared away from this place.

Tiny, I know how you feel. I've been there. I was taken for granted, verbally abused, and yes, even left alone after surgery. But my A was wrong, just like yours was. I can only thank heavens my H was willing to forgive and to work on things.

Tiny, you need to do a couple things right away: come clean about the PA and send the NC letter. I personally see that you are trying to do the right thing. Heck, you were trying before the A even happened. It's too bad the BSs here don't see that. I hope they don't scare you off. There are some compassionate FWSs here that are willing to help you and not string you up the way others have here.

Finally Tiny, you can't change your H. He needs to do that himself. But you can work on you, try your best to meet his needs, and perhaps he will see that he needs to put forth some effort as well.

Yes I did, and still do. (tearing up) Here is more to the story....

I can not sit by and watch him turn into his father. H has a medical condition that is not serious, but requires meds from time to time. H, I believe, is a fully (???) functioning prescription drug addict. I referred to some things he was hiding from me earlier... well, these are the things he is hiding. Prescriptions, medication, doctor appointments. there is no affair for him, only the one with his pill bottles. He ws on a concoction of 3 or 4 different kinds, he kept them hidden with the labels removed so I don't really know what all he was on. I know one was a sleeping pill "to help the others work better", one a pain pill percocet and I am not certain about the others. I once saw one for morphine and oxycontin. I don't think he is taking them as much now, at least he says he isn't. I think he may be on an anti-depressant now but I am not sure. i don't want him to think I am interrogating him because I don;t want him on all this crap. This would explain his behavior in full, only the behavior started before the meds. He sees (as far as I know) only one doctor who control his dosage to "maintain a comfort level". THe problem is that his comfor level is now numb he was turning into a complete zombie. I didn't know about all the meds until I moved out, because that was when I found some of the bottles he had hidden. That's how I know what he was taking. I have been with him to the doctor, the whole nine yards, asked about it and he would always say that the doctor said the same thing. I knwo that is the reason he is not interested in S, well that and all the porn he watches, how could I compete with pills and porn? Hope this sheds some light.
Tiny

Those are some very large prescriptions and oxycotin is one of the most highest addicting out there - it's why so many docs here in Canada will no longer prescribe it. it also explains alot of his behavoirs towards you before your A.

On terms of reconcilation, for you - NC letter and full truth to husband, and for him, seeking out help for drug addicts...perhaps going to AA together (as the 12 steps will help you as a recovery FWW as well believe it or not).

I think this will be very important in your recovery...that both of you get your problems under control as you come back together.

MM, i first posted here in Dec 2003, my first confession finally occured in mar 2004 and the complete confession Oct 2004. i'm not saying she should take that long!! but IMHO it is unrealistic for her to dash home this very second and confess.

i think we can help her a lot before that confession occurs.

now complete and NO CONTACT. that should happen immediately, i don't disagree with you on that.

but she needs some time to understand and take all of this in. don't ya think?