She is not being vilified. In my case, I have asked three different times when does she plan on telling her husband and going no contact with the OM. And what have we gotten? No answer. Several people on here, including Dorry and Mrs. Wondering (who are FWWs) have expressed the very same sentiments.

Now, when Dorry first came on here, did I talk to her the same way I talk to her now?Nope. Why? Because a WW in the fog or just coming out of the fog has no concept of reality. None! Thus, if you couch reality in a bunch of nice, hair-stroking "I cares," the reality will get lost in trying to understand why she did this.

We all understand her husband has been less than perfect. While he was horrible, jsut like you pointed out, Pep and others believe that there may have been actions by her that may have helped start all of this. Dorry spelled out in her posts exactly how that can happen.

I was guilty somewhat of this also. My wife also had been hospitalized...once with our third child and once for another surgery. Both times, I came and went...checking on her...but leaving to take care of the kids or work or other family business. To her, she felt this was abandonment. That I didnt care. She felt I should have been there by her side for a good portion of that time. Me, I thought I was taking care of her. Being responsible. I would be there for her, but would leave to take care of family issues. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT SHE REALLY NEEDED! Sure, she would say "stay." But what I heard was that she was just being needy and that she would be okay. Afterall, I was taking care of her and the kids and our business. It wasnt like I was leaving her to go bowling with the guys, right?

I didnt know. Sure, all the signs were there. But when the signs are written in Russian, it just doesnt make much sense to us guys. So what did I do? I began to shut down. Felt unappreciated. Felt like I was busting my butt for her and our family, and all she wanted was more, more, more. In reality, she didnt want more...she just wanted me. But I did not understand that. So, as I pulled away and locked down into work, and kids baseball, etc...she began to really think I didnt care. The more she saked and whined for my attention, the less she got! We were in a viscious cycle downward...and it was both of our fault. At some point, you just begin to think that you can never do right in your wife's eyes...and you really quit trying.

So, what Pep and others are saying is...what did Tiny that helped contribute to this? My wife could have changed the way that she approached me...and I would have responded to it. I could have tried to see her perspective...and she would have thought I cared (I really did care!).

So, where are we pounding on Tiny? We are speaking the truth. But I say again, it all doesnt matter until she does the two things she needs to. Until then, all the rest will be just a history lesson.


This is all absolutely correct!

In His arms.

Is it not my understanding that there is different approach towards couples that are dealing with infidelity as well as drug addciton???? I thought I read that somewhere in one of the books that Dr. Harley wrote????

Mm--today is my first posting day, give me a break, I don't have a plan together yet. I haven't talked to OM in a while. a couple of "you doing all right? type e-mails and that was it. Heard thru the grapevine that he picked up some of his stuff at his house over the weekend and didn't have on his ring. He made choices too, that is not my concern. I have to be selfish at some (another?) point, he is on his own. We are friends, what happened happened, I think of him fondly, but he is just another man who needs work too. His major assett is communication skills, but that can be learned. I just have to get my head out of my a$$ and figure out what I am doing.
Tiny

Not unless she wants to drag this out over all that time. You see, she is askign questions about her husband, about her marriage. The problem is that unless she deals with this...and gives her husband the truth of where their marriage stands (all of the truth, including what he has done, and what she has done), then discussing what her husband has done and where her marriage is just becomes a moot point. You cannot work on a marriage as long as the OP is still in the picture, and as long as her husband does nto have a truthful and full picture of where he stands and his marriage stands. All of it. the neglect by him...the adultery by her.

How do you think he will react if he goes to counseling for a few months, begins to work on personal issues and marriage issues...and then finds out his wife has been with another man? Can you say devastated? Of course. But what else? He will not only feel betrayed by the affair, but he will feel betrayed and lied to by his wife over those months that they had been working on things.

The truth is not the enemy here. As a matter of fact, I would say that not enough truth in this marriage has caused all of these problems. They both need to start from ground zero. It is unfair, and frankly immoral, to want husband to talk and work on a marriage that he doesnt even know about. Right now, he does nto know about his own marriage...and he is in it.

She must do NC and she must tell husband. Until then, it is all jsut spinnign wheels. And take it from a BS, I would be VERY angry if I were her husband and then came up later on, after working on the marriage...and find out that she had been in a PA. That betrayal might be the one that actually would do us in.

In His arms.

That is all I am trying to help you do Tiny. I have been here long enough and dealt with enough WSs to know where you are at. And I do feel for you. I put my own wife in similar circumstances. We both did not understand how our actions led to all of this.

I also want your marriage to succeed. And dont want you floundering around for weeks/months trying to find the "answer." You will not find the answers you seek until these two things have been done. trust me on this. If you dont believe me, listen to these other FWWs on here. Read other threads. It is all typical and all works the same way. You and your husband are not unique.

So, I just want you to focus on answering those two questions right now. You cannot (and should not) deal with all of the rest of this until then. Once you have completely rid your marriage of the OM forever...and once you have told your husband, then we all can help you get started on all of these issues.

I am trying to help you. And once you have begun this by taking care of those things, then we can help you and your husband walk together one step at a time to resolving this stuff and getting the marriage you want.

In His arms.

Tiny obviously you want to do the right thing. You would not be taking the time to write back and forth to everyone if you didn't. I believe in your heart you are seeking out what you should do. I have been there as a FWH. The steps are not easy, but it does not get easier over time, it only gets more difficult. And once you take the right steps it will seem like a great weight has been lifted off from your shoulders. There will still be struggles and pain to go through, but the weight will be gone.

I found a counselor, the counselor said stop contact with the OW and it gave me the strength I needed to stop. Whatever it takes, stop contact with the OM it only continues to harm you.

Be honest with your husband and tell what has happened, its only fair if you want to continue the marriage. If he chooses otherwise at least you have been honest.

Those are the steps I took and while it was difficult my wife and I worked through the pain and we are still together ever after telling her about the numerous affairs I had.

God bless you and I hope for your success.

I understand the concept. Total NC and confession. Just so you don't think I don't get it. Is it not at least a step in the right direction that I have posted here for some type of guidance, even though I am wondering why I started posting in the first place. I realize that what I did was wrong. PERIOD. I do not blame H for that. I blame h for neglect which he IS guilty of. I blame me for poor choices and the A. I understand. What I am trying to decide is whether to even try to reconcile or not. I am leaning in that direction and testing the waters of those who have been there and done that to get a handle on what lies ahead. Do I love him? Yes. Like I should? probably not. I think he feels the same way about me at this point. He would try if I would, but if I don't go first, as usual, he is perfectly willing to sit by and sigh the papers all while saying "I'll do anything to get you to come home". You see, to him I am not WORTH THE EFFORT to TRY. He will do whatever I decide. I know that sounds self centered or bad or He!! I don't know but it is true. He won't do anything, and I mean anything at all in a positive manner for this cause. I am guilty, guilty as charged and IT IS ALL MY FAULT. I want a partnership in my marriage, not a dictatorship. I do not want to be the one who ALWAYS makes the decisions. I know MM--I need to DECIDE when I will NC and confess.
Tiny

I was going to ask if your hubby had any substance abuse but I asked someone else that already and I felt it was ackward in do so afterwards.

Take it from me, a recovering addict and alcoholic, your hubby sounds like he has a very serious problem. Morhpine? Oxy? Perc?

Hiding scripts??

Just how long has he been taking these? If more than a couple weeks he is an addict. I don't care what anyone says and you need to realize he isn't behaving like he is on purpose, he is in serious trouble ahead. He is an addict based on reading your words. Addicts don't think right. They can't. They might seem normal on the outside, but on the inside they are either screaming, or searching for the lost buzz just to feel "normal" . Won't stay a "functioning addict" for too long before the body starts to fall apart or the mind or both.

I use to know lots of "functioning addicts" that are dead now.

Those all all big time addictions. Oxy is a very nasty drug. I took hundreds of them along with hundreds of others.

From what you just described, imho he is going to need a week's worth of detox in a hospital and then some kind of 28 day program, maybe even longer, and then NA or AA. (Some addicts like AA better than NA and vice versa)

After reading about the drug use, I say this needs to be addressed before anything else.

Tiny,

I know you understand. And if you noticed, I have not been hounding you about your wrong decisions...or those of your husband. I believe you understand how wrong they were. I do.

Let me ask yo ua question. You stated you are deciding whether to come back or not, right? Okay. Now, let's say you dont tell husband for a little while, and in the meantime, decide to work on the marriage. You make the decision to care and to invest in yoru marriage again. So, you go to your husband and either tell him everythign then or wait a little while longer, letting things play out a little first. Then, you tell him.

Now, once he learns everything, let's say he decides that since you had a PA, he does not want the marriage.

Here is my question: How will you feel then? You have just reinvested in the marriage, then told him the truth...and he rejected you. Wont you feel hurt and betrayed? Wont you feel like he has just confirmed your worst fears about him? Wont you just feel like you have wasted your time trying to work on this? Wont it just help rejustify the affair?

Instead, by telling him now...if he decides to end things based o nthe adultery, then you will not have put yourself back in it and been disappointed.

The basis of a good marriage, and the basis of you recovering your marriage, is truth and commitment. That's it. Not feelings. Not trust. Those will come. It is making a decision about this marriage that you will give it everything you have in order to see what you can salvage.

But you do not know how your husband will take all of this. You may not even get the choice to save this marriage. And it is much better off that you know this now, then after hours, days, weeks, months, etc of work and dealing with this. Only to lose it all.

So yes, I am saying that you must tell him first. Then you will know where you stand, and so will he. Then you can make decisions about whether you want this marriage or not. And so can he.

In His arms.

H denies a drug problem. I think the oxy is in the past, I believe that. The morphine, I think he stashes it, those were the full bottles I found (didn;t even know he had a script for that) the percocet is a daily thing at least it used to be, probably every 4 to 6 hrs. I haven't noticed lately if he is still carrying his "pill box" or not. The other I know was Deseryl (the sleeping pill). I know that since I left he has been on Zoloft and some other anti-depressant. He was acting strange Friday-all hyped up and happy-- That night he was fine until he started yelling at me. I asked him if the doc changed his dosage and he swore he wasn't taking anything. He said NOthing AT ALL. I told him that I didn't believe him. the last time he tried to not take anything he wound up in the ER to get a nerve block becasue he was in so much pain.
Tiny

And I always have the suggestion if you can't tell him alone, meet with a marriage counselor where you can disclose it to him. Again whatever it takes to be honest, but the sooner you can do it the better.

Mortarman is right in that you don't want to restart the relationship, find yourself way down the road and then have it all fall apart again. Eventually the truth somehow always comes out.

I edited to add in that Deseryl is Trazodone, which can be an antidepressant, sleep aid, mood stabilzer. It's fairly strong and usually taken at night.

Well tiny, I have to change my mind here. I don't think you should tell him everything right now, he's not capable of making a good decision and it could push him into an overdose.

I may sound extreme, but BTDT.

Basically all those drugs(morph, oxy perc, hydrocodone etc etc) give the same similiar "buzz" effect and craving effect. Sounds like he is getting whichever one is most available at the time.

I wonder if he could take this test honestly for himself:

http://www.na.org/ips/an/an-IP7.htm


He may have been self medicating his depression too and not realized it once hooked.

Oh and FWIW, I use to think I was a functioning addict because I ran my own business and was a success, still do, but I almost lost it all. I also damn near killed my wife's womanhood with over a decade's worth of emotional detachment.

Many wives of addicts and alcoholics end up in affairs because we the addicts have our own affairs. I know now that my wife suffered through my active addiction as much as a wife suffers through infidelity.

She's a strong woman though and I am grateful to still have her and being able to give her the life she deserves.

Someone asked how long on the meds. What I can remember... probably 5 years or so on different kinds refferred from doc to doc... the one he sees now has been seeing for at least half of that. The old doc gave oxy this one does percocet, at least I think so anyway. I know that is part of the root of the problem. During one argument he told me it was all side effect of the medicine. I asked him why it only effected his relationship with me and he was able to interact fine with other people especially the kids. I had never heard of wife neglect as a side effect listed for medicstion. At that point he went on a rant about how I was jealous of the kids adn the way he gave them attention and didn't give me any. So.....
Tiny

"I had never heard of wife neglect as a side effect listed for medicstion."

Oh it's a side effect all right when you're an addict.

Woah, that's a lot of reading. Tiny, from what I read, it looks like people are hammering you for having an A and maybe you do deserve some of it. But for what it's worth, it sounds like your H was not meeting any of your EN's or meeting any of the components of the Basic Concepts. I was the disconnected H for 6 years and it wasn't until my W told me about her A that I finally WOKE UP. I also had other issues within myself that contributed to the mess. I While I blame my wife for the A she had, I also equally blame myself for the way I treated her and our family. It goes both ways.

It sounds like you know you need to confess the A to your H. In my opinion, it's the 1st step to recovery. And your probably wondering about the best time to tell him. I'm not sure if that's something that can be planned. It seems like when the time is right, your gut instincts will tell you.

Good luck to you.

I admit that I was being a smarta$$ when I said it, I wan't really looking at it as if he were a true addict. Next step guys....Address addiction???? How do I bring that up with out totally pi$$ing him off? He knows I have a problem with the whole thing, the same as I knwo he has a problem with OM. Maybe not equally deserved, but equally destructive.
He would probably be fine with this type of conversation... HONESTLY fine if I said to him....

"ok I have a problem with your meds, I think you need help. I know you have a problem with me talking to/seeing OM. If you will get some help I will NEVER EVER talk to him again."

I of course won't be talking to him anyway, but that is beside the point. If would not be a tit for tat, or anything at all, but I think he would think that we were both doing something. I had told him that I would never stop taking to OM, as it was all 'innocent'. It was when I said that, but things change.

btw thanks.
Tiny

His problem is his problem. You can't force him into changing by saying you do this and I'll do that. It just won't work. There are two people, with their own sets of problems that need to be worked on.

You start with youself, accepting your problems. You let him see that you can accept fault for what you have done. Let him see you take responsibility for your own actions. Let him see you are willing to work on what you need to do.

In that mix I think you can address he has a need to work on his set of issues and it's up to him to work on his issues. They are not your issues to resolve for him.

As a couple you can work to meet each others emotional needs that will build and strengthen you.

TO MM--

Just saw the thread of your request to folks that I need help. I know you are not sugar-coating things for me, I thought you were being a little tought in me too. I know you have experience and that is why I decided to post here, seemed like alot of you do. I just want you to know that I am listening-- I may be hard headed, but I am listening.

So, thanks for looking out for me.

Tiny

Seriously, if the picture you paint is accurate... 5 yrs of opiate use...no way he's not an addict. You need to replace "problem with meds" to "problem with drug abuse"

Ask him if he's willing to let you hold the "meds" and administer them according to directions on script label(...if you can find a label that is) and see what his response is...he doesn't want to be babied, he's a grown man, blah blah blah...ask him to do it for just two weeks, to prove it, see how he reacts.

If he's not willing to seek help he just hasn't hit his rock bottom yet, but it sounds like you have hit your's as the wife of an addict.

You should also try and read chapter 8 of AA (Big Book) just replace the word alcohol and alcoholic with drugs and addict in your head as you read. I promise you will identify with some of what's said in those 18 pages.