IMO, it is BEST not to listen to E-mails and phone calls during PLAN B...

Except..when there is an indication that the WS is ending the A..

There is a definite turning point towards the end..

Happened in both my case and Mortarman's..

They don't typically JUST END IT..

They make the decision that they must end it..they try to end it and can't..

The BS has to be really strategic and intuitive about when it A REAL MOVE and when it is not...

Kim now knows that her WH was not for real so

NOW..COMPLETE DARKNESS AGAIN...

I began to see like FIGHTING A WAR..BATTLE AFTER BATTLE...

This is the way Mortarman instructed me..I personally found this POV and strategy to be helpful...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by mimi1254

"I would really like to have lunch or dinner with you. A time when we can spend more than an hour together to talk about a couple of things. The refinance for one. I am running out of money with credit card bills and car repairs."

Kim - I'm so happy that you listened to his message. Now you know EXACTLY why he wants to smooth things over with you. If he was truly wanting to work on the marriage, he would have said he would do anything to get you back, he made a HUGE mistake, blah, blah, blah.

I would let the mediators know that you are not going to refinance to help him out. Then you will get a good picture of his true feelings.

(((Kim))) I am SO proud of you!!!

I think your plan B is working beautifully on many different levels. I can see through your posts how much you have grown. You are not just surviving in plan B you are thriving! Your confidence is increased which has benefited you at work. You are living your life the ups and the downs.

IMHO plan B is working on WH too. The way I see it...WH has invested a lot in his fantasy world and all the drama...so much he walked away from his son, his wife and his home. He has himself convinced it was all your fault and OW was the answer to his happiness. He is VERY uncomfortable...things didn't work out w/OW the way he thought. BUT it is still all Kim's fault...wait Kim isn't around...it must be because he is short on money, if Kim would let him get money he would be happy. So he tried the WH charms. "If I invite her to dinner and tell her she is pretty, I'll get the refi and the money I need." He still has no clue he is dealing with the "new, improved, strong, longlasting" Kim.


If he was ready he would not balk at the NC letter. But, beware as he gets more savy he may use a NC to get you to talk to him about refi.

This may sound silly but it reminds me of a sleepover trick we did as kids. Throw a blanket over someone sitting on the floor. Then ask them 20 questions. Then ask them if they are hot and to take something off if they were. Out would come the slippers, the socks, the robe and finally some one would say "if you're hot just take off the blanket!" Duh!! But it didn't even occur to the person sitting under it.

Hang in there Kim...he's not ready yet, he's still sitting under the blanket...he'll get down to his jockey shorts soon! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL......Believer....your a smart woman and you made my point without even realizing it.

"Blah Blah Blah" is about the gist of it.

How many Cheating Spouses have we seen here who have SAID !!!!!!!!!!! they would do anything to get you back, he made a HUGE mistake

How mant times have we heard Waywards SAY these words. Who gives a flying F*** what they say? Show me actions. Words mean nothing.

You think a WH "saying" the right words makes a difference without action? To me it doesn't. And judging from your story, to you it should't either.

I once again fail to see what is gained from listening to a Wayward SAY ANYTHING. They KNOW what to do to get things back on the right track. Do.....NOT SAY being the emphasis.

"SHOW ME THE MONEY"..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey, this is just me. I actually think I take heart in everyone disagreeing with me....proves to me I am still "ok". Maybe I am wrong, but also maybe someone else (not Kim) will see the value in what I am saying here.

I think it's all good in the end. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You are EXACTLY right LM. Remember, I am almost divorced after 3 years of this.

Kim's WH isn't even clever enough to SAY the right things. It is so obvious to me that he is still thinking about only himself.

Of course, my feelings might be tainted because my WH was writing me love letters while he has draining all of our money as fast as he could get his hands on it.

Kim:

Just want to make sure you know that I am not making this point to chastize you or find fault in you or your "plan".

It is not meant with that in mind at all. I trust you are confident enough in your decisions to know this.

Please see this for what it is, a "discussion" of differring view points in a "calm" "soothing" way.

Almost like "Plan A".....well, not really...

That cool with you?

Lem

Kim,

It really breaks our hearts to see what our DS's have to go through doesn't it? You're doing good though! Happy holidays to you and DS. I wish you a much better New Year!

Logistically, though, how can the WS make contact to talk about recovery WITHOUT FIRST HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE BS?

BTW, my H did beg..and actually say he made a BIG MISTAKE..

He has continued to SAY this about once a week..has done so for two years...

I know, I know, KIM'S WH IS NOT MY H...

But I pray this for her...

wow...two years and he is STILL saying this once a week?

Susan

You know what he does then? He writes the NC letter, he goes to Kim and shows her the letter, he hands her his cell phone, and then asks her for forgiveness and for help in coming back to the marriage.

I am sorry, but HE KNOWS where she lives, they share a son. If he wants to start a TRUE marital reconciliation, he KNOWS what to do.

Do you really think that a man who wants his wife and family back is going to let it "hinge" on her getting a "voice mail". Come on now. I understand the "logistics". but come on.

A Wayward Spouse usually goes through great trouble to hide an affair....it must be mentally exhauting to continue the charade. If a man wants something, he will go and get it.

Now, yeah, maybe this isn't the "Marriage Builder" way and the BS has to help "negotiate" a NC letter and End to Plan B. Whatever.

You know what I say? WHY GO TO PLAN B THEN?

Just my opinion people. It is ok if y'all disagree ( I love that word).

Logistics.....smogistics. A WS KNOWS what to do to "make things right" and it ain't gonna be found in any words or voicemail.

Once again I say: "Show me the money".

I feel I must add that although I may disagree with some people on this thread, I am not "disagreeing" in anger or with alot of emotion....I am actually quite calm and am just hoping maybe someone will see another way to do it. That's all. I don't mean to beleaguer (sp?) the point.

I don't feel anyone is wrong here.
Just want to emphasize that point.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The money is me..

After 3 months of NC..

MY HUSBAND CALLED ME AND SAID: "What about us?"..

I'll never forget those WORDS...

I AGREE THOUGH THAT THE WH NEEDS TO REALLY BE COMMITTED AND SHOW THIS...

But the BS has to be OPEN to SIGNS of attempts at Recovery, I think...

My FWH and I went through weeks of TALKING..my insistence in these conversations was for him to come up with a PLAN TO GET RID OF HER..

Received coaching on this from Steve Harley..but I know this doesn't matter to you..but was invaluable to me...that's why I come to share it here...

OK, Mimi sounds good. It worked for you, I understand that and am happy it did. But let me ask you to be HONEST HERE. REMOVE YOURSELF from YOUR OWN Bias if you CAN.

Do you feel that in the GREAT majority of cases that "talking" for weeks on end and having conversations with an ACTIVELY Cheating husband WHILE IN PLAN B is likely to be of benefit to most people. Once again, I am talking about the MAJORITY of people.

You say you get tired of me saying that your WH is NOT ALL WH (actually I have said this ONLY once), so what do you think?

Lemonman - We are good! I appreciate the posts here tonight & respect the opinions here of everyone. I am strong enough to take this well and am grateful that this is generating some different view points. I hope this helps others here as well as myself!!

Just wanted to chime back in --- fell asleep with DS as I was putting him to bed!

I am going to digest all of this in the morning when I am more awake!

To all of you -Mimi, Confused, Lemonman, Believer, Big Kahuna and Trying - thank you and may you all have a wonderful night! Talk to you all tomorrow and will reread all of this manana(spelling??).

and to everyone who is hurting --- a special MB hug is going out to you. May you find comfort and peace. Look inside yourself, find out who you are. Discover, learn and grow from this. We all have so much to gain and give in this world.

Love,

Kim

LM asked me this..I'm not sure that he is still around:



That's just it..

I can only speak from MY OWN understanding and experience. I don't feel comfortable, myself, speaking about the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE . I just think that, if it worked for me, and I'm not that special... that it can work for someone else.. If I could just help one couple happily reconcile, it would be great!!

When I said, talking to my WH for WEEKS, I meant as in 2 or 3 weeks-just prior to reconciliation-with WS showing definite indications of seriousness such as BEGGING AND PLEADING tone of voice..

I DID NOT SAY OR MEAN THAT THE BS NEEDS TO TALK TO THE WS FOR WEEKS ON END... ..as stated above by LM...

The talks were minimal...

I don't think that you are at that stage yet, Kim

So keep this in your back pocket as ark would say...

If anyone is interested, they can find my thread..wherever it is..and read up on Mortarman's coaching to me..it was AWESOME...

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I don't think it's time for me to talk to WH either. I need action. I need evidence that he is thinking about repairing the M, not finances only. What makes him think that would entice me into a dinner with him? "Hi honey, I don't want to protect you but I'd like to get together to see how I can get out of this financial grave I'm digging. What do you say about us getting together and seeing what we can do for ME?"

Here's what I am thinking - It sounds like his sitch with finances is getting worse. I am concerned about how that might effect me. I would rather just sell the house, give him his money and me move out than refinance.

I don't know what I would do if I chose that route. I can't afford a place on my own. I would have to quit my job here, move to my parents and join the family business. That is 2 hours away.

My other option is to keep waiting him out & hope that his financial sitch doesn't start effecting mine(bills/mortage/etc.)

Kim

Kim - Is there any possibility you could get a roommate? That's what I did. It really helped me out financially, since WH gave me no money. Of course then he started complaining that I had a roommate and he couldn't move back in.

That's something I thought about a month or two ago. I think I will look into it. Thanks, I had forgotten about that.

Kim

Yes Kim, his tax money has ran out.

I can't remember where, but on another thread a woman had rent a room to a foreign student from a college nearby after her divorce. It has helped a lot with her finances, and helped the student as well. Just an idea.

Lady

I would like to see you be proactive in keeping your home, without refinancing. If you lose your home, and then get back with your WH, that is just one more thing to resent. My WH made such a mess of our finances, that I would never take him back, or even be friends with him. He blew everything that we spent years to save in just a few months.