.......just wanted to put in a word of support. You sound like you are doing better--more focused and more confident--and way to go for standing your ground on the finances!!

Sounds like a good plan. There are some great examples of Plan B letters on this board...and a template form letter somewhere. Good luck!

I don't know if I can wait for H to talk to Dr Harley or if H will even talk to him at this point. I might need to go right to plan B

Today H realized that he had reached the max on his credit card. 1/2 of the charges were work expenses that he can get the money from his company but he has not been submitting the requests to his company. Him not submitting the requests is one of the reasons why I blocked our joint credit card from future charges because I didn't want to get stuck with them.

Well H was upset because he had reached the max on his credit card and wanted to use our joint one. I had to tell him that it was closed. Also he was upset because he knows that I have opened my own checking account. Also he said he can't trust me because he found out I had been checking his email. He said he knows that I am setting myself as if I plan for separation and that I am being sneaky.

He asked me yesterday if I wanted a divorce and I said no, he said I don't either. I told him that I knew he was still talking to OW and that I didn't see how things were going to work as long as she is part of the picture. He said it is
our fault that she is in this situation and that if I never would have called OWH that he wouldn't left her. My H said that he was just being her friend because she was having a nervous breakdown. I know differently because I have seen the emails talking about more then friendship.

I think I am starting to lose my love for him because I would rather spend time away from him then with him. I am starting to hope he leaves to go to OW so I don't have to deal with him anymore.

He has not submitted his charges to his company, because they were used to go out with OW. He doesn't have control over his finances or his boundaries with OW, because he is letting his addiction guide his behavior. (His addiction is not to OW, but how he feels about himself in that fantasy).
Nothing that you say or threaten is going to change his behavior, because he doesn't get it and won't get it until he faces the reality of the situation on his OWN.

He is NOT being a WS that wants to work on his M, he is being a WS that is trying hard to keep the fantasy going.

"My H said that he was just being her friend because she was having a nervous breakdown. I know differently because I have seen the emails talking about more then friendship."
WHAT? Even if YOU DIDN"T know differently, him talking to her at ALL--irrespective of the reason--is crossing a boundary. Don't even get into an argument about that--ANY contact is NOT OKAY for your M. PERIOD!


You are right to protect your finances and it REALLY sounds like you are ready for Plan B...can you move up your Harley apt?

Trying -

Good Morning! Have you worked at all on your Plan B letter? You can post it for feedback -



WH's can't take responsbility for their actions. Again, finding someone else to put the blame on. My WH always told me I made things worse each time I contacted OWH. That I was putting HER in danger......(not his A creating the danger and his actions, but ME for contacting OWH!!)

I agree, it is definitely hard to Plan A when you are constantly turning up evidence of the A. Each piece stabs at your heart and you get this feeling wash over your entire body - aching down to your bones. That's a good question to bring up ---- continue snooping or just assume that the A is still in full fling until the WH says ITS OVER and writes the NC letter.

I could not help but snoop.

Kim

I can't get my appt with Harley any sooner because is is out of the office till then.

Dear Husband,

I write to you today with sorrow, but also with a sense of peace and hope for my own future.

I love you to no end, and my commitment to you and our marriage was unending

I regret that we find ourselves in this place that is lonely and confusing for both of us.
Until the affair I did not understand how truly miserable you were. I was lost and did
not know how to change. I did not understand how to properly display the love that ran
so deep, to the very core of my being, to you. I didn’t understand what your needs truly were, and how I cold meet those needs in order to allow our marriage to flourish.

I have done much introspection over the last two months and believe I have found the tools we need to make a marriage in which we are joyful, loving and supportive. I have made many changes in me over the last months. Some of these you have noticed, some you may have not. I must continue with my changes and have demonstrated to myself that it is possible and they are permanent. I still have much work to do

As my hope for my future increases, so does my sorrow over how easily I have been cast aside by you. I find my love for you dying. In order to preserve the love I still have for you and to stop my bitterness from overwhelming me, I must remove you from my daily life. I cannot visit with you, speak with you on the phone, email, or correspond via mail. I must also give myself a fresh start in a happy, positive, environment. This is not a punishment. This is a safeguard of my love so that if there should come a time when we can both commit to working on rebuilding our marriage, there is still love and hope left which to do that.

If you must contact me regarding financial, legal, or DS matters, you may do this through a third party your mother or sister. I expect our current financial arrangements to stay the same.

I have the greatest of confidence that we could build a wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. I have learned so much these last few months and would like nothing better than to share it with you. Should there come a time when you feel you could commit wholly to trying to build a new foundation with me, it is something I would like to discuss with you. For me that commitment toward working for reconciliation would entail an agreement for you to break all contact with ow, an agreement to marriage counseling for at least six months, and a realistic plan of how we would actually reconcile if the counseling were to show us that path. My hope is that you will think hard on this and choose this commitment. If you do I would welcome a discussion with you about it. Until then, I ask that you respect my wish for no contact with you. There is no one else I would rather spend my life with.

I have always loved you,

Given this, definitely time for PLAN B...

I think that what Ahuman is saying to you is SOOOO HELPFUL and RIGHT ON TARGET...

Your WH is definitely very much lost in the fog..

What he is saying to you is a bunch of BULL...

I hope that you are not buying any of it..

"LET IT GO IN ONE EAR AND OUT THE OTHER"

Good start. I guess you are posting it for comments....so here goes....

Maybe try opening with more specific examples of the things you love about him and your M.

Also, I would advise making your actions more directly linked with WH choices to continue contact with OW. You say it once at the end but I would say it more than once and include it up front....he's shown he doesn't quite get it, so I imagine you're going to need to connect the dots for him a bit.

Finally, I would be more firm about the no contact phrase at the end and make NC letter a specific requirement (though you will want to see a draft before it is delivered I imagine) and maybe list other measures you can think of. (I don't know how he met here or where they could run into each other, but eliminating that possibility by changing behaviors--work location, gym membership, etc.)

...just my two cents. Hope you are feeling better today, relativey speaking.

Is it possible that we just are not compatable?

Sounds like "fog" talk to me...

You were compatible enough to get married..that's all I need to know at this point..

You were compatible with your H..you are not compatible with you WH....

I agree with the comments on the letter. Wow.. reading that letter actually brought tears to my eyes, knowing I too will have to do the same thing in a couple of weeks. I think it would definatley make WH think and make some choices maybe not immediatly but soon after.

good luck..and hang in there.. especially with the holidays,, i dread this as well.

Still hanging in there with plan A. I don't think my H has any intention of leaving anytime soon. He just bought brand new shelves and tool organizers for the garage.

Money wise it is hard for us because his company is taking out about 800/month from his pay checks for November and December to cover taxes on his company car. I am upset with H because he did not inform me this was going to happen before hand so that we could plan ahead. On top of that he tells me that his company is selling his division in Jan so he is going to need a new job. Again something he should have took into consideration before he bought 1000 in shelving units for the garage. He has todally lost it!!!

With these things into consideration I am thinking of taking out the home equity loan. Yes H will benefit because I plan to pay off both our credit cards (with an agreement from him that he will not use his credit card anymore and if he does I am not responsible for the charges). The reason why I really want to get the loan is because I plan to put some money aside and away for me for when I go to plan B and incase I need to get a lawyer. I only plan to get the loan for a small amount so it will still leave alot of equity in the home (because I don't think H is going to leave willingly and then I don't expect him to give me any money for bills without court action i feel this might be best even though he will benefit some)

What do you guys think?

Yeah, it does sound like he is happy to stay in the status quo!

Can he return the shelving? This guy sounds outta control with money! Scary stuff. I would be very weary about using "solutions" like taking on MORE debt to solve money issues. Seems it would just add to them really.

Where will you go when you do Plan B? (Or where will he go?) When do you plan to do it?

Yes he is out of control with money

I used to control all the money and his spending very well, but after the A he decided he wanted to get his own credit card and has since ran it to the limit

That is why I closed out all our joint credit cards

and moved all of my money to an account he does not have access to

It is not my intention to take on more debt but to consolidate the debt into something that is more manageable. At tax time I should be able to pay off most of the loan. of course I need to get H to agree to not make anymore charges to his credit card and if he does that I will not be responsible and that all of our tax money will be applied to the loan.

Wouldn't you consider this to be a marital problem? Doesn't sound like you two were working together as a marital team..

Just asking..if you are thinking about problems predating the A?

I am not at all questioning your financial actions.. NOW.. since his involvement in the A.....

Trying,
Sounds like a plan with the small loan. Its terribly important you make sure you can cover it by yourself, though, because you know how these WS's get.

My husband spends money to make himself feel better. Always has, he got it from his mom. I know how it feels to be married to someone who constantly has you on pins and needles financially. We're still working on that one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Its definately time for Plan B.

Actually before the A, H and I did work together on how to spend the money. He wouldn't buy anything without checking with me to make sure we had the money (since I handled the books). If he really wanted to buy something but I thought we didn't have the money or it was too expensive we would find a way to compromise. His spending was so out of control when I frist met him that I did not allow him to carry a ATM card or credit card the frist year or so we were married. He was ok with it though, because he knew his spending was out of control. Before the A he used tell brag and tell people how he wouldn't have anything if it weren't for me.

Well, personally I think this is a terrible idea (equity loan to pay off his affair debt)....(you did ask didn't you)...Truthfully girl, I am willing to bet that if one was to open "your books" and give you an objective, assessment of your financial situation it would not be "pretty". I strongly suspect that there is alot of self denial here to what he true financial picture is.

You husband sounds like a complete and financial nightmare....and some of the things that you revealed above go a LONGGGGGG way to help clear things up from me.

The way one handles financial matters says alot about them. Your financial "plan" with your cheater since your marriage also says alot.....being his "mother" with respects to financial matters should have raised MAJOR MAJOT red flags...for me that would have probably been a major deal breaker...but that is just me.

I am not going to give you an opinion regarding your cheater husband or ways for you to to win him back (there are plenty of experts here for that) , but I would advise the following regarding your financial situation.

1. Stop all spending NOW
2. Account for EVERY red nickel your household has coming in and coming out....EVERY cent
3. STOP all Credit Cards WITH your name on them (even account use status)
4. Your WH has more "going on" financially than you know (i.e more destruction) , and these bombshells he casually drops regarding "taxes being taken out" and "new job" will mean MAJOR things for you....the fact that you seemingly are taking them like this is some walk in the park simply is mind blowing to me......BUt that is just me...
5. ALong with the multitude of books that are being advertsied and recommened here for you to buy, I would also srongly consider buying two books by Dave Ramsey,he runs a "financial peace" University program, that as many BS here, YOU NEED desperately.

This book should be Betrayed Spouse required reading along with all of the other Buyers, Renters, Leasers, Emotional Needs, Affair survival stuff....

Sometimes, I am in complete awe by what I read here....you are about to be bankrupted and for all intents and purposes ruined financially...(a "small" equity loan is the first step towards financial ruin......I have seen it a thousand and one times)...and yet you are worried about being "nice" and in Plan A.

It is just me....I have to convince myself of that...

Goodluck

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
4.

Thanks Lem,

Believe me I am not taking this as a walk in the park. I want to get control of the situation and back on track like I was before the A. At this point my finances concern me more than winning my H back. My bank offers free finacial advising so I will call a financial advisor tonight and see what they recommend. Believe it or not just in Sept, before the A, we had no credit card debt, our finacial situation was great! It was like a destructive snowball came through. This is what upsets me. He is the one acting like its a walk in the park, I am trying to deal with it and clean it up.

Can you give me some feedback on this letter?

H,

I am concerned about our financial situation. I don't want to overdue it. I talked to a financial advisor at the bank and they strongly recommended that we not get the home equity loan. That since are credit cards are interest free we should stop spending and pay them down first then consider a home equity loan only for major home improvements. I know I keep flip flopping but I don't want to get the loan now. Tax time we should be able to pay off most the credit card debt and then we can look possibly at getting the home equity loan. We definitely can't afford two Harley payments and a home equity loan. Do you think you can take the sportster to Harley Baltimore this afternoon?

Also since money is tight we should let our family know and I think we need to only buy Christmas presents for the kids this year. What do you think?

Love,

Your wife

I told H today that I did not want to get the home equity loan. It felt really good to be able to tell him what I thought without fear. He told me that he felt like I was the one making all the decisions. I told him I was scared about the home equity loan because it puts our house up for collateral but I was willing to discuss other things with him.

I think we really really need to get into marriage counseling. Given our current finacial status we can't afford anymore sessions with Dr. Harley when my health insurance covers counseling. I didn't want to try just any marriage counsler because I thought they may make things worse but I am thinking of scheduling an appointment with one and seeing how it goes. What do you guys think of that?