Which are you?

Which is your spouse?

Very briefly:

BUYERS are in the relationship for the long term and look for solutions that are good for *both* parties. They are very receptive to the POJA.

RENTERS will stay as long as it's good for them, but instead of POJA they expect their partners to make sacrifices in order to keep them around. Renters only put into the relationship what they expect to get of it.

FREELOADERS expect unconditional love and don't believe relationships should take "work". Their only committment is to stay in the relationship -- there is no committment to taking care of their partner's emotional needs. POJA is a completely foreign concept to them.

You may also be dealing with an EFP.

"EFP" is what the book describes as an "Electric Fence Personality" - that is, people who have a very limited tolerance for certain things, oftentimes just rules in general. Anything that makes them hit their own personal Electric Fence will send them into a angry tirade if not an outright rage.

EFPs are often people who learned to lie as kids to keep themselves out of trouble. They keep this habit into adulthood and become PANICKED and FURIOUS when caught, just as if they'd hit an electric fence.

This is my WH to a T-T-T. Exactly. He is normally the greatest and sunniest guy in the world, until he is cold busted on something that does not jive with the honorable and noble image he has of himself. Then he will fly into a rage. He did this to our DS17 once when DS asked ol' Dad if Dad had ever used drugs as a teenager. (He'd smoked a little pot that his older alcoholic brother gave him. No evidence of anything more.)

But he got INSTANTLY FURIOUS. SNARLING ANGRY. You woulda thought he'd stumbled into an electric fence and was reacting to the shock. Poor DS17 had *never* seen his father act that way before.

Guess how WH reacts when his BW confronts him about all the mountains of lies he's got stacked up about his "social events at work?" Panicked, furious, raging, snarling, and generally acting like a mad bull who just hit an electric fence that he didn't think was there.

So: Which relationship sounds like yours?

BUYER-BUYER: These people are probably not posting here because these relationships are solid and lasting. There may be some truly recovered marriages who are now Buyer-Buyer where someone posts here.

BUYER-RENTER: This may grind on for a while, but eventually the Buyer is going to get tired of being shortchanged and expected to make sacrifices. Buyers do not like to sacrifice; they would rather find *mutual* solutions to any problems. And the Renter is going to get tired of being "pressured" all the time.

BUYER-FREELOADER: As the book states, this is a recipe for misery for the Buyer. Harley actually recommends ending such a relationship because of the extreme neglect the Buyer can expect to suffer.

RENTER-RENTER: Because both parties expect the other to sacrifice their needs instead of using POJA and fully investing in the relationship, these are the ones that are most likely to turn abusive and even violent.

RENTER-FREELOADER and FREELOADER-FREELOADER: These usually don't last long. Nobody cares enough. They might date for a while, but that's about it. Anybody got an exception?

I am a Buyer married to a Freeloader/EFP. For years I have felt like I was starving to death on crumbs. Now I understand why.

The book also has detailed instructions on how to use POJA and emphasizes that POJA makes absolutely no sense to Freeloaders. My WH is loudly and forcefully and 100% opposed to POJA and will not even CONSIDER it, while I think it sounds like a wonderful idea. That's because POJA is a Buyer's tool. Renters will only use it sporadically and Freeloaders despise it.

Everybody get this book so we can talk about it even more! It is available on this site. If cost is a factor your library may have a copy that you could read for free and there are many (cheap) used copies available on http://www.amazon.com
Mulan

[color:"red"] Mulan on fire
[/color]... should be the title of this thread !!

LOL

you go girl

Mr. and Mrs. Pepperband .... but Mulan ... we are constantly fine-tuning our love machine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

up^

Great Thread Mulan!

My WH is a renter and freeloader and most definetly an EFP. Probably I have the Buyer-renter/EFP going on in my life--the freeloader part that works is that my H says he still believes that a realtionship shouldn't take work and he does want and expect unconditional love but doesn't give it in return and never fully did I think but over th e last ten years it has virtuelly diminished to nothing as he only does things that benefit him. If I get benefitted by that or our son does great otherwise we seem to be on our own.

I don't know about the "LOVE MACHINE" part like Mr. and Mrs. Pep but include me in the BUYER-BUYER CLUB as far as I can tell so far.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

What's a BS in PLAN B (like me)?

A Renter refusing to negotiate with WS/Freeloader? Is there a Below Freeloader category?

Actually, I think in PLAN B, I am supposedly in a relationship with me!

What do you all think?

***What's a BS in PLAN B (like me)?***

According to the book, a Buyer cannot go to Plan B because a Buyer is committed to the relationship for life.

To invoke Plan B, a Buyer must become a Renter. That's the only way they can "leave" the relationship and live under Plan B.

So, since you are in Plan B, your relationship has gone from Buyer-Freeloader to Renter-Freeloader.

Mulan

Mulan,

The thing I find interesting is that my WH blames me for his freeloader status. It is because he doesn't want to put in effort into a marriage with me anymore and he would with someone else--yet at the same time says relationships should work with little effort if they are right.

So IMO my WH does not recognize anything about himself yet--still passes blame to others for all of our problems.

Thinking that this is typical thinking of freeloaders.

Albany - that's not surprising that he blames you. Freeloaders insist on unconditional love for themselves -- they insist that you love them no matter what they do or else it's not love -- but they sure don't give unconditional love in return.

Not that they should -- Unconditional Love is for parents to give to children, not for spouses to give to each other -- but Freeloaders don't see the need to give any sort of love at all. Their only committment is to stay in the relationship, as in "not move out and not file for divorce." There is NO committment to take care of their partner's emotional needs. That's all supposed to just happen naturally, like breathing, without any effort on THEIR part.

So I guess that since they aren't required to put in any effort beyond "I'm here, aren't I?" (which is classic Freeloader), if things are going wrong whose fault could it possibly be but yours?
Mulan

Very true.

If you read my update thread started through grapegirl you will learn more on my situation.

Now my H wants a D~has wanted one several times in the last 2 1/2 years. SO this time I said great but all your stuff leaves by this weekend. He has never before fully moved out and I have struggled to keep the house and maintain a place for him to come back to. Not now--I'm selling the house etc.

I have left it in god's hands. Either I'm meant to move on without him or this D will finally make him hit bottom and realize what he needs to do to make himself happy --not having other do it for him as he blames me for his unhappiness or I move on without him and he never figures it out. What will be will happen.

I went to Amazon.com this is what came up. Which one should I buy or do I need to buy both?

Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders: Turning Revolving-Door Romance into Lasting Love

Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders [UNABRIDGED]

I want to think my husband and I are Buyers/Buyers

Before the affair I think we were Buyers/Renters

I am going home right now and ask him

*Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders: Turning Revolving-Door Romance into Lasting Love* -- I just got this one. It was about five bucks plus S&H.

You can also go to the "Books and Articles" section on this site to order a new copy or even a CD.
Mulan

***Great Thread Mulan!***

Thanks - but I am just hanging on to Pepperband's long and colorful satin coattails.
Mulan

There is another very good book that any single women might want to look for, as well as anyone who has a daughter.

The book is called *The Rules.* It's came out several years ago and was roundly jeered by critics, but it's really just a method for sorting out the Buyers from the Renters and the Freeloaders while dating and searching for a worthwhile marriage partner.

Rather like *His Needs, Her Needs,* it's not exactly politically correct. Oprah, in her infinite wisdom, had the two female authors on her show a few years back and just ridiculed the whole idea to death. Of course, Oprah also had a married boyfriend back before she became famous (she's fessed up to this) and just drools over people like Julia Roberts when they come on her show.

Anyone who has a teenage daughter ought to give her a copy of *The Rules*. I gave a copy to my daughter several years ago and she ended up "doing The Rules" and marrying a wonderful guy. They have a daughter now and a great life together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So anyway, if you are intrigued by the ideas in *B,R & F* you might also like *The Rules*.
Mulan

I will get this from our library ... who wrote The Rules?

nevermind

it's Ellen Fein

i figured it out and ordered it from the library ... I have a 16 year old daughter !

I think this is why i resisited going to plan B!!

I am a buyer "pretending" to be a renter by doing plan B only in the hopes it will bring my H home.

That makes sense to me too, eav. I wish somebody could post some help on how to do this. Most people can't do it until they are so angry, disgusted and hurt that there's nothing left anyway, and some can never do it.

How does a Buyer become a Renter solely for purposes of Plan B?
Mulan

My WS (ea) is a freeloader who sees himself as a buyer with the electric fence zapping all around us. I am a buyer but getting VERY tired of the upkeep on this place.

***My WS (ea) is a freeloader who sees himself as a buyer with the electric fence zapping all around us.***

What is it that sets off HIS electric fence?