I don't know about other people, but I know I can never again have a close friendship with another man. Not the heart-to-heart, long hours of conversation, wow-this-guy-really-understands-me-and-we-are-so-on-the-same-wavelength kind of friendship.

I had an EA that almost destroyed my marriage. I now know the danger of a close friendship with another man. It's especially dangerous when you start verbalizing your feelings to each other. It's a short step from "I'm so fond of you" to "I love you."

I have men friends, but I don't engage in long, profound conversations or e-mails or phone calls one-on-one with them. That's just a hedge I've set up for myself.

WOW! Sincere.. You just blew my mind...

Your signature is the Sonet that we used for my wedding.. Must be a sign!

I agree that sharing intimate details of one's marriage with a friend of the opposite sex could lead to an A, but not all that time...

I'm done with this thread..

thank you..

Weakslave

- Good luck with everything.. just read your original post and felt bad for you..
I do suffer as all of here do and I was only looking for some objectivity with my original question.

Peace.

waterman, you devil!

Now it is clearer. You were removing yourself to consider whether platonic opposite sex friendships when one is married are possible. Sometimes I'm a bit slow.

Before my husband's EA, I was all for his friendship and I encouraged and supported his old friends (both sexes) when they made contact. I firmly believed that platonic friendship could not hurt our marriage.

Boy was that naiive. I served him up on a silver platter to a woman born with a silver spoon in her mouth. Whose husband stood beside her chanting "benevolent, beneficial, benign" about the whole thing.

Older but wiser.

I believe that people of the opposite sex can be friends and nothing more develop, but sometimes its because one out of the 2 doesn't want it too. Or has enough will not to let it happen. However, EA's are very common with people of the opposite sex usually because their something lacking in the marriage. BUT say one party is very happy and secure in their marriage, then chances are there isn't any real room for an EA to happen, but it can be one sided. I have seen a friend of mine go through this.

She got caught up in a EA with a male friend. He was married and so was she. Her marraige had many things lacking, while his seemed to be very strong. I think she had many feelings for this man that ran deep because he provided something her husband didn't. He may have realized it, then again he may not have because she never told him. The feelings were there she just kept them to her self. Now it could have been he had feelings or was caught up in a EA as well but nothing ever came of it because there was no mention of it. Hard to say how he may have felt. She has said that it would have hurt worse had he felt the same and something did come of it, but it hurt just the same because it was one sided too.


Joe

Some women, truly deep, sharp and "intelligient" women, IMHO, relate better to men than women and can handle a M-F relationship without cheating on their spouse.. P-lease... If they cheat.. there's so much more going on... or missing, etc.. I think cheating is probably more about how the "cheater" feels about "themselves" than how they feel about their S, statistically.. really.. read and look herein and my point is confirmed... I'm not deflecting.. just stating an observation..

Besides.. how much hair, nails, waxing, spa, kids, school, maids, makeup and spending your man's money discussions can a SAHM take anyway...

Get your [censored] to work, at least PT, even if you don't need the money.. USE YOUR MIND!! Volunteering is not that challenging unless your in Africa fighting AIDS and hunger. WOMEN - get outside the house and do something for yourself so you can stay healthly for your family.. You weren't made to stay home and play slave... truly.... hire some help or call on friends and family more, but for God's sake, DO SOMETHING foR YOURSELF so you don't CRACK....

There's a whole lot of people in the world. ANd it certainly is possible that men and women can be just friends. But looking at the number of affairs and how they start, friendship with the opposite sex is right up there as a common thread.

So while specific individual might be able to resist, apparently enough people can't that it's a problem.

FOr those that can, great. For those that can't, they should limit their contact.

VERY CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT BUT........

(1) IF YOU ARE DOING OR DISCUSSING ANYTHING WITH "FRIEND" THAT YOU WOULDN'T WANT YOUR SPOUSE TO HEAR OR KNOW ABOUT......DANGEROUS

(2) IF "FRIENDSHIP" HAS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT THAN "FRIENDSHIP" WITH SPOUSE.............DANGEROUS

(3) IF THERE IS ANY PHYSICAL ATTRACTION TO OTHER "FRIEND"........DANGEROUS

(4) IF "FRIENSHIP" IS NOW STARTING TO BECOME A FRICTION BETWEEN YOU AND SPOUSE.....AND YOU ARE HIDING TO CONTACT OTHER FRIEND................AFFAIR........PHYSICAL OR NO.....STILL AFFAIR <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Personally, I think that friendships with the opposite sex are too risky once married. Most of my close friends in highschool were girls. And almost all of my wife's close friends in highschool were guys. But in the same way that it's acceptable to run around naked when you're 2 but not once you're 14, same thing goes for friendships with the opposite sex if you ask me. The risks are simply too high and the potential pain/worry that it causes your mate is something the relationship could do without.

I do think it's ok to be casual friends with the opposite sex in a social setting. Somewhere like church. If you were in sunday school together and enjoyed chatting it up and made friends with someone while in that social setting on, it's pretty harmless. But it becomes inappropriate when you start calling each other on the phone or have contact outside of that social setting.

Just my two cents but I think marriage is just too fragile and important to be playing high risk games with it.

Hey Earthman,

When you truly understand why affairs happen, then you will see that everyone is suseptible to them. EVERYONE. Why you haven't felt suspetible to them is simply because the friendships that you've had with females has not met your emotional needs at the same time that your wife was NOT meeting them.

So, until your emotional needs are not being met by your wife to maintain that positive love bank in yourself at the same time your female friend is meeting your most important emotional needs, then you really have no "proof" that you are not suseptible to an affair.

Dr. Harley's suggestion that opposite sex relationhips pose a threat in a marriage filled with conflict is an affair waiting to happen is very true. Why even take the chance? Is the relationship with the female friend more important than your marriage?

Do you know what your most important emotional needs are of the 10 categorized by Dr. Harley here?

For you to say that you would "leave first and then pursue it" kinda says that you would allow an emotional affair, but not a physical one without first cutting the tie with your wife. To me they are the same, an affair is an affair. Both would cause anyone great pain and suffering.

Your self-pride "could" setup your self-fall. Maybe not for an affair, but most likely in other areas of your life. If you have pride about one thing, you will have it about many things.

All knowledge I pass on is learned from others, so don't think of me as some know-it-all. I just hope to help bring understanding to all for what I've learned.

uh.. wrong... I haven't fell for my female friends because doing so would a) ruin my marriage and my loyalty to my wife and b) I would jeopardize the friendship.

What are we all monkeys, that we can't have opposite sex friends without wanting to ****** them? It's absurd and very ignorant IMHO.. sorry..

My wife meets NONE of my emotional needs!! Get it!? NONE.. and I'm still here trying to fix our relationship.. p-leaes.. Do you know what loyalty and honor are? Did we not take a vow to remain faithful to each other? THAT"S the point MAN OF GOD... WALK THE TALK!!!!

Pride is a great virtue.. but my loyalty and respect for what's right comes first.

Wannabee therapist... I love it... What's your story?

LOL Chas!

Well I will give you my viewpoint. My H's EA came from a so-called "friendship" such as you describe and our marriage is in big TROUBLE NOW!

My business partner (who is M, I am F) is a close friend and we do discuss our marraiges (with limits). He's been a huge force in convincing me that I should give my M a chance after the A. I was ready to move on due to the pain and he helped convince me that my WH could change and it would at least be worth a chance to keep the family together.

My WH does have female friends that I trust him with, one is an ex GF who has been more than welcome in our home since day 1. BUT, she cares about me and I've felt it from the beginning AND she's always included me in all invitations and correspondence.

Also, my business partner and I would never dream of socializing outside of work without our spouses.

My opinion is that opposite sex friendships can be healthy with respect and inclusion of the friend's spouse and if the spouse feels ok about the friendship, which they likely won't if its not appropriate.

With the OM my WH was involved with, I knew from the beginning it did not seem right, it just took him 3 years to admit it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

EM

Any time there is a "friendship" between 2 people of the opposite sex, the spouse had better be included if they so choose. Anytime there is discussion between these 2 friends that is about the intimacies and problems of either M, and they are keeping it hidden from their spouses they are IN BIG BIG TROUBLE. LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY: THE MARRIAGES ARE IN BIG TROUBLE!!!

MY WH HAD AN EA WITH ONE OF OUR SO CALLED "FRIENDS" WHICH HE STILL WILL NOT COMPLETELY ADMIT TO ALMOST 1 YR AGO...AT THE TIME WE HAD CONFLICT IN OUR M.......IT WAS VERY OBVIOUS THAT HE WANTED TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH OW THAN W ME.....HE WAS SNEAKING AROUND AND CALLING HER ON HIS CELL....I KNEW THAT THEY WERE DISCUSSING THEIR M'S TO EACH OTHER.......I REALLY THINK HE WOULD HAVE RATHER DISCUSSED HIS M WITH HER THAN W ME................

I WAS BETRAYED BIGTIME!!!!!! HUGETIME!!!!!! OUR M IS STILL TOUCH AND GO AND NOW IT IS BECAUSE OF HIS A......JUST BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ACUTALLY SC--- HER HE FEELS JUSTIFIED......WELL I AM SO SORRY BUT THERE IS NOOOOOOOOOOO JUSTIFICATION IN A FRIENDSHIP OF THAT NATURE WHEN YOU NEED TO WORK OUT YOUR MARITAL PROBLEMS WITH YOUR SPOUSE!!!!!!!! I WAS WILLING TO WORK AT THEM..........HE WANTED CONSOLATION FROM HIS "FRIEND"...........AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED HE BETRAYED ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Tare

Tare: First I am not trying to Thread Jack. but I have a quick question. If the friends are discussing problems in OW's M, and my H tells me all about them, is that different or is my H just cruel??

Well,,,,,My H told me bits and pieces of OW's M problems. At first I was oblivious knowing my H to be the personality he is. Thought nothing of it. I saw, however, other obvious red flags..the manner in which he spoke of her that gave me indications of his feelings toward her. Meeting her and a friend outside of their regular bowling night......staying out wayyyyy too late on bowling night w OW...and the list goes on. When I confronted him I was not angry nor was I even unduly upset....just stated I was uncomfortable, as I got the impression he valued OW's friendship over mine......every reaction I got from him had GUILT written all over it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> After that he started to call her (and she him) on his cell behind my back......even to the point as giving her an alias name in his list of contacts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> (BTW, found calls and # purely by accident) To me, the deception of the EXTENT of their "friendship" spelled disaster. It is also not healthy to discuss marital problems with a friend of the opposite sex. (uless you are included)

I realize that to some it sounds a little rigid, but especially after my experience w "friendships of the opposite sex" it is too dangerous to persue. I believe it to be playing with fire.....BIG TIME.........and not unusual for a long time close friendship to become physical.
I believe it to be a HUGE threat to a marriage.

Hope that answers your question??

Blessings,
Tare

No thread jack intended, but a question ...

What if both H and OW have shared intimate details about their respective marriages, is it possible for them to draw a line that those kind of details will not be shared in the future? Then the platonic friendship is OK, in that respect?

WCG

Details?

In my opinion, of course men and women can be friends without sex.

However, those relationships should be within full view and knowledge of the other spouse. If they are co-workers of one spouse, then the other spouse should be invited to happy-hour or the company party so they can meet these friends.

When the two "friends" start doing things exclusively together (lunch, coffee, etc), I believe it has crossed the line to an inappropriate relationship. Not sex, mind you, or even an affair -- but inappropriate.

And certainly, if the two are doing things they would feel the slightest bit uncomforatable about telling their spouses, they are wrong. This includes sharing intimate details of their marriages. That should be a taboo subject between men and women not married to each other.

Just because you trust your spouse, what happens if the problem is with the other friend? What happens if he/she develops an emotional affair on your spouse? If this comes out and the betrayed spouse tells you -- how do you react? Does this drive a wedge between you and your spouse? I'm thinking it would.

Tare, Spidey ...

That's kinda what happened.

DH and OW are co-workers. She invited him to take a day off so she could talk to him; she'd already been sharing work issues. Unbeknownst to me, he spent the day with her .. to the point of meeting at a store parking lot, leaving his car and going in hers .. They exchanged intimate details about their respective marriages (details about SF, frequency, etc.), then encouraged the other to go home to their respective spouses and get some dialogue going about their dissatisfaction with the marriages in order to get them back on the right track. Sounds like good intentions.

We have been in MC for over a year now and the knight-in-shining-armour thing has been brought up. DH doesn't tell me when he has interactions w/OW .. whether professional or not. I find out through discovery after the fact. A feeling I get and I ask, "oh, how's so-and-so?"

I don't want to make him decide between this friendship and our marriage, but I feel like I am number two. Remarks he's made in MC indicate that he will not choose one relationship over the other. After a year of hating the person, I'm discovering my hate is for her ability to satisfy some need in him and my lack to determine what that need is and that I'm not fulfilling it.

I'd like to think they will never cross that intimacy line again (no PA). But my trust has been damaged. I wonder if it's possible that they never discuss such intimate details again; or, if they have before, it will happen again? Is it possible to bring an inappropriate relationship back within appropriate boundaries and be able to keep the friendship?