Nature, 10Girl, SS,RookKev, and Orchid,

Thanks for your posts. I have been tied up the last day trying to make flight connections for my aunt's funeral. She was the only remaining sibling of my mom (family of 11). My mom and aunt were definitely cut out of the same cloth. My aunt was about 5' and 90 lbs soaking wet and took care of my wheelchair bound cousin by herslf for the last 20 years. I can never say that I didn't have heroes in my life when I think of these two. They could be stubborn and opinionated and sometimes I swear I could kill them both but no matter what happened...Family was always first. Two widows in a new country, with demanding kids, didn't speak the language, couldn't drive a car but refused to go on the public dole for even one minute.

I truly fear for our country as these WW II veterans slowly pass away. They were forged of a different steel, hardened by life and guided by their love of God, their children, and their country.

Since you asked for opinions of what we think she means..
as in none of us really know..

the tone I get is her wallowing in self pity and blame...

I'm so bad I know you wouldn't want me anyways......
blah blah blah..

again in my opinioin pretty typical WS behavior...make themselves out to be such the bad person....no one could ever ever forgive them.........

She's handed you lots of points to refute..
and I think that is what she wants...

"NO it wasn't nine years wasted"
"no there were times I wanted you back"


again cymanca...
because I need to believe firmly in the thought that people CAN change...I still have hope even for your WS..

doesn't mean I think she has in this case...but I remain hopeful that it is possible....

and it doesn't mean I think she hasn't..

I don't know the answer..
and the that answer is really as important as what it is YOU desire...

but again in my opinion people hitting bottom and reaching out...is on one level exactly what human nature calls us to do.........
AND our response to call is what we are called to do also from a higher level...

some people don't have a rock bottom and they are lost..
some find it some time in their life...

thankfully....

ps sorry to hear of your loss...

ARK

I really like this. If only it could be rock bottom for her, and along with that the posibility of a life of happiness for her, instead of a life of blame & pain...always seeking something from outside, and never finding. yuck.

I hope it is rock bottom for her..."amazing grace" and all that wonderful stuff.

Hang in there Cy.

Ark,

Quote:
I don't know the answer..
and the that answer is really as important as what it is YOU desire...

I have always been a very decisive man, a product of my heritage and my profession. But now I am racked with indecision. In the last months I had gotten to the point where I had regained my sense of purpose and looked towards a future. I also spent much of that time hoping that the next time I opened my email, I would find that precious NC letter email.

When I finally got it there was a very small feeling of satisfaction but the majority of what I felt was the regret that I was back in the turmoil. I feel almost paralyzed with indecision. I have prayed for an answer to come to me.

Perhaps no decision is the best decision. My potential R will only have the legs that WW gives them.

I agree my man..

that sounds right and smart...

My suggestion is always keep hope alive....not so that it hurts you...but because it will help serve you be a better person to believe in hope....

I think that for some reason some of the responses to your wife trigger in me some great fear that I people would give up on me...

and that's seems really frightening to me...
which is not to say that people shouldn't protect themselves and should have realistic expectations and invest cautiously ...

all the things you are doing...

but that giving up ..
that final nail in the coffin scares me...

cause I could be her.. in some other life....
and it just sounds more lonely than anything else I can imagine....

and I am NOT NOT saying go to her and profess love and forgiveness...
she's got a ton of work to do to work her way back..
and ton..
and her words without action are meaningless.....

I guess I always have loved the underdog.............

ARK

Ark,

In my opinion SHE is the underdog. I can leave this marriage with my self respect and moral compass intact.

It dawned on me this am that what bothered me most about the latest email from WW is that it reflects a basic lack of respect for me. This lack of respect was and is at the very core of her A. I spent 20 months showing her that while I wanted her back, I would no longer permit her to disrespect me, our M or herself.

In my opinion SHE is the underdog.

Sorry for the misunderstanding I too without hesitation see her as the underdog....not you for a second...

I think you give her too much credit in even saying her email is disrespectful...I don't think she is deep enough to put that much thought in to her and is going for the easy reactive emotional fluff...

as with most ANY attention is better than none...so any rise she gets out of you..

confirming her self flogging sentiments
or
denying them is something....

I think she is disrespectful...but I don't think she means to be......

I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you...

I don't want plant doubt or confuse you.

you know this woman better than I
you know your own heart better than I

the time line though is about right for reality of consequences to start nipping her in the BEhind.....

ARK

Ark,

Quote:
I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you

I think that you hit it on the head. THAT is what a good Plan B does, you go dark and it drives em crazy.

But while I agree that I do know my WW's heart and person better than anyone....do you think that might be actually detrimental to the entire process? How many times have we all seen a credible, non-emotional objective evaluation of someones situation by a poster and we all applaud the post. THEN when that same poster has to make decisions about their own situation, all rational thought is thrown out the window. The recent situation with Coach comes to mind.

In medicine we say " The person that treats himself has a fool for a doctor"

I don't want,nor can I be, that fool.

I am reading all these posts and see you getting drawn back into the drama of the pre/post A business(as you eluded to).Life is full of loss and while I understand ark's theory there is a point of no return in some circumstances.

You don't have to do anything now about your WW.See what transpires.Live your life still as if nothing really happened since there isn't much that you should do at this point regarding your WW IMO.

If reconcilitaion with your WW is in "divine order"(give it up to God,) then it will come to pass but by your WW's hand.Unlike Nature, who's WW was reaching out to him without the threat of jail time and coerced NC,your actions must be circumspect right now.Of course we would all love to see your marriage survive and be better just remember to follow all the rules of this "game".

A NC sent has to be followed through with other acts of truthfulness.The mere act of drafting one and sending it(do we know the OM actually received it?) does not a recovery make.

BS's should want to be more than the just last chance of the WS.But I am still hopeful for you as we all are.

O

Good point, and something that is NEVER lost on ME when I am reading the advice and opinions people give.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

10Girl,

Your clarity is always refreshing and much appreciated.

And no, I do not know if the OM received the message and/or if she truly blocked her address from him. If she is lying about that, she will be the one to ultimately suffer from her duplicitous actions.

For now,at least remember the old adage: Actions speak louder than words.

Hang in there.

I firmly believe the reality of the situation is finally hitting her. Her M is nearly over and D looms, her OM is nowhere to be found and now she is in the midst of a bank fraud. Who to turn to? Why, Cy of course, he will listen to me, he will listen to me, yes, he wanted a NC letter, I will send it, let's see how quick he calls me......and now you are barely listening and obviously not calling which is throwing her mind into a tizzy because NOW SHE KNOWS she is about to lose everything and possibly face losing her job/career due to the check mishap.

Like I said and Ark echoed (always loved your posts Ark):

"I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you...

It is killing her to know the one person who truly cared for her is no longer caring...and shows the ultimate in self-respect, honesty and dignity and has held his head up HIGH and that is why she is desperately trying to reach out to you, sort of a last gasp to see if you are still there.

And that is really the key question all along, are you still there Cy and WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? You may have to leave this up to God and let the chips fall where they may...or you may need to also say some prayers for you and your WS and begin the process of FORGIVENESS. That is the only hope for your M if it is meant to be saved by either one of you.

Yes, we all know there is so much more that she needs to do, but these are very small steps on the road to what this site is all about: MARRIAGEBUILDING..

So, Cy, what do you want to do?

God bless you in this difficult period.

Nature

Cymanca,

""I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you

I think that you hit it on the head.""

You can honestly say "THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM!" or

"And your plight concerns me HOW??"

k

OK, Cy.........so at least you are able to see that after 20 months of this $hit...you can still count on her to show disrespect to you.

So, I ask you as others have here (and you seem to be dodging the question)...what do YOU want to do here. Do you want this marriage back?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Cyman.

My thoughts are along the same line as Lemon's here;

What are you getting if you take her back?

Unless she has repented (and I am not talking about a religious act here) and turned away from her bad behavior, having recognized that she has been on a serious path toward destruction, then you would be taking back a known problem.

Consider this. IF she has indeed had such an epiphany, fully recognizing the error of her ways, then are you capable of the instruction and patience necessary to lead her in the right way? Are you capable of tolerating her inevitable falls along the way? Are you capable of dealing with the near daily emotional onslaught as your mind tries to wrap itself around her past and potential future actions?

An opinion; I know this sounds silly, Cyman, but isn't it time for a new car. You might be able to fix your old up one more time, but at what cost? At what point in time do you decide that you have spent enough on repairs?

God bless,
Gimble

Not silly at all Gimble....I indeed like the analogy and think it makes perfect sense for this situation.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your wife reminds me of the character Eva Longoria plays - Gabrielle Solis ... on Desperate Housewives. I have that kind of picture of her in my mind.

Sometimes we create, in our minds, the character we want our spouses to have and the reality is not like that at all. Sometimes they convince us by playing to that character but eventually they reveal their true selves by their actions.

I don't know if she has ever been the wonderful woman you thought she was when first you met.

Sometimes I get glimpses of the dark side of my FWH but he usually has been good at keeping it in check for the last few years. Sometimes it is an internal battle that must constantly be fought to remain in the light.

Nature, krusht,Lem, Trix, and Gimble,

Just a reminder that the D is proceding with another mediation session scheduled after Thanksgiving.. We have come to a lot of agreement except for an extremely complicated real estate ownership that we share with several other docs.

Forgive me the analogy but I feel like the hiker that was trapped with his arm under a boulder. He didn't know if help was moments away or if he should cut off his own arm to save his life. He saved his life but I will bet he will often look back at the sacrifice he made. He will wonder how much longer he could have held out in hopes that a miracle could have occured and his entire body would now be intact.

There are many hard steps that I spelled out to my WW that she needs to take for us to even discuss recovery. The least of which is complete , total and permanent separation of any friend or FAMILY that I( with great emphasis on the I part) feel has been anti our M. So while her NC letter was stunning, it itself is just a miniscule part of my delineated plan for recovery.

Keep it coming guys, I don't know how I can ever repay you.

Hi, Cyman.

Have you ever seen either of the "Pet Sematary" (with an 'S') movies?

There is a great lesson contained within the movies.

Gimble