Whew, what a day and a half. Excuse me if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I have so many emotions strafing my brain and my heart.

I will try to summarize. Yesterday I found out that my WW forged my signature on two income tax refund checks totaling a little over $12k. The bank is investigating and a teller may be fired over this. The bank manager is pressing me as to what action I want her to take.

This is followed up by several panic phone calls to my office which I refused, even though WW begged my office manager to tell me it was "extremely urgent".

Half an hour later my assistant interupts me in a treatment room to whisper that WW is in the waiting room and is begging, not demanding, to see me. Now I have a waiting room full of patients and even though I have vowed silence(my Plan B), I have her ushered into my private office to avoid a stressful scenario for my patients and staff.

To make an already long story short, she breaks down, apologizes for what she has done to me and our marriage. She says that she could not have had a better husband and every day she wakes up with that on her mind.

I was calm but a bit emotional and I acknowledged what she said but I refused to endorse the check as she asked. I have not heard back from my attorney on that matter. My bank manager friend said that due to the amount of the checks, the action could be seen as a felony. She would lose her license to practice Speech Pathology if convicted.

She said she has never sent the NC letter beacuse she was no longer seeing him. I told her that should make sending the letter very easy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Feedback please from my MB friends!

Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions: Noodle

Well, everyone here probably won't agree, but I wouldn't prosecute her for the checks. Losing her livelihood isn't going to do anything for the marriage.

I would also take my time, and think all of this over. I never could figure out why your wife was behaving so strangely.

It could be that she is hitting bottom, but wasn't she seeing someone other than OM just a few weeks ago?

Pep,

That thought has gone thru my mind every 10 seconds since this all occurred.

believer,

Yes there are at least two more "friends" that I know of

WW forged my signature on two income tax refund checks totaling a little over $12k.

due to the amount of the checks, the action could be seen as a felony

well? Has she committed a crime?

and these are just the ones you KNOW about!

the STBXH is not a prosecutor ... Cy does not make this decision

if there is a crime ... the BANK reports ...

and Cy cannot be asked to lie to protect her ... because he has integrity

I agree the felony would hurt her for life - do you want to live with that? She has been an alien for a long time. Yoou have gone thru so much already - do you want to have to tesify in court -it could take a long time. Or maybe this is just a sign that it is over and time to move on. Believe me she knows what she is losing. Please be careful with your decisions here. Do you have children? It would seriously effect them as well. I would be angry of course but in D -they would take that amount away from her in the settlement.

Pep,

That is the rub. Even if I endorse the check, the bank manager has had to initate the normal procedures that occur when they are notified of the possible fraud. The funds have been stopped and the teller is having a disciplinary hearing in the next few days.

If you decide not to press charges do so for the right reasons. I would not see this as a chance to get her back – you can’t blackmail her into fidelity.

Since you still have some assets to split during divorce have your lawyer draw up an IOU that you can deduct from the sales of the home. In an earlier post you mention she is not moving out of your home. Possibly you can use this to leverage her into selling?

Realtor,

No children involved. Yes I know that this can hurt her for the rest of her life.

bigger,

My best friend has been insisting that I do exactly that...use this as a lever for the divorce settlement. That leaves that old horseapple taste in my mouth. I couldn't do it.

Amicable divorces are a Hollywood invention. Like when the heroes stand up after being punched. To put it brutally and in plain English: she is lying in the gutter – KICK HER!

I don't think this is a lever in any way shape or form ..

it is a fact

she committed fraud

she got caught

she wants you to cover up her fraud

it's pretty simple

Bigger ... that was rude

bigger,

No, I can not do that. I appreciate the sentiment and I am sure at times in the past I might have given that seriouis thought.

Pep -

Have you never endorsed a check signing your husband's name? I used to do it all of the time. And he would sign mine and cash one. Admittedly, since they are getting a divorce, the situation is different. But to lose her license for a felony???????

Cy,

I think you remain neutral on this and allow the bank manager to do her job. If that means your WW is brought up on charges so be it, if it does not...so be it. This is NOT your problem Cy, it is your WW.

You don't have to prosecute her, but you should NOT defend her either. She is lying to you. Do you know how I know? Her lips are moving. You may love the illusion of the woman you married, but the real woman is standing there trying to defraud you and the bank.

Let the bank handle it as they see fit. You continue on with plan B and possible divorce as you have laid out. IN reality NOTHING has changed and therefore you let her actions and deeds be handled as they should be.

Please consider this.

God Bless,

JL

Not without his permission.

This is her rope, Cy. She CHOSE this course. This is not something YOU are doing TO her. SHE did this TO herself.

You have acted with honor and integrity throughout this mess of HER choice. It is no dishonor to allow her to foot bill for her actions. Also, what will she LEARN from this if you do what she asks? That she can do anything - especially if all these chips fall in her favor. What will the horseapples taste like then, my friend?

What a trial the waywards can be! Ug.

- Kimmy

I think that is the difference, B. The only time I have signed my H's name on a check and he on mine is when we were knowingly depositing the checks into our joint account. Neither of us would EVER sign and cash a check without each other's knowledge or permission.

Cymanca, I agree with Pep and JL on this. In fact to me it is very black and white...she did something wrong and it is not up to you but the bank to see that the wrong is corrected.

Yes Pep, I acknowledge hat it was rude. I do apologize for that. But if you read the history behind this situation you can see that all along WW has been disrespectful and inconsiderate of Cymanca. At the same time he has been as considerate and honorable in all his actions.

In an earlier post he mentions that despite WW accepting how to precede with divorce the house has not been sold and she is still living there. I simply point out that now he has leverage to fore that issue. One more step to change. And I stand firm on my view that an amicable divorce is about as stupid a concept as a civilized war. In divorce one must think of self first and foremost. Having said that I am not saying you have to get more than you deserve – but get what is yours.

I doubt Cymanca will press charges. I think he will get his money back AND possibly move things along with an IOU and pressure on the house. I am also certain that WW would prefer he let her have the money and keep the house. Which is better for Cymanca?

Bigger, I think you are mostly correct in your assessment ... my only objection was the "KICK HER" comment.

She did not forge Cy's name in order to split the $$ with him, she forged his name in order to take the money without him finding out.

This is typical of her character rather than atypical.

She is a cheat and a liar .. and she's gotten herself in a pickle.

"Don't rescue" ... seems in order. Agree?

As someone who has been here since right after Cy begun posting, I'd say that is for HIM to decide.



To advise him to lower his morals would do what for him exactly? What would it GAIN his self respect if he kicked someone (ANYONE) while they were down?

Pleasant though the daydream may be, while I agree that WW needs to be held accountable, there can be no good outcome for Cy to actually "kick her while she's in the gutter". He's proven himself to be better than that.

- Kimmy

Just Learning,

Your advice is where I find myself leaning but I am so confused right now, I don't want to make another hasty decision.

As always thanks for your help.

believer,

No we have never(to my knowledge) signed anything without the express permission of our spouse. I am questioning if this has happened before and those implications.

Cymanca,

""she breaks down, apologizes for what she has done to me and our marriage. She says that she could not have had a better husband and every day she wakes up with that on her mind.""

Ok, now that I've said that, please endorse this check!!

""I refused to endorse the check as she asked.""

Was this another check besides the ones she forged?

What a karmatic (?) turn of events. It is amazing how staying on the high road is such a refreshing way to travel, yes? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k

From our other discussion~~~~~

YOU said:


now call me paranoid ... but aren't you wondering what ~other documents~ you may have "signed" without actually signing them?

[color:"red"] red flag alert [/color]

krusht,

Karma, perhaps. The high road is ALWAYS the road to travel.

I want to also make a correction. My WW has issued me a personal check for half the amount of the two checks. Since it has been written on the stopped check account, it is worthless.

One of the first posters to my story when I appeared in April of 04 was keepmvn4rd. I have looked occasionally for a re-appearance but I have not found him(her) in a long time. When I outlined my Plan B , he was very encouraging as to my path and stressed that above all else, I should treat myself with respect. One of his posts has stayed with me (as has Noodle's). I paraphrase here

" Cymanca keep doing what you are doing(my Plan B) and she will return. YOU will have the last word if this M will succeed or fail"

Something to keep in mind, because this envolves a bank this will probably be a federal felony, which will require mandatory time to be served. I would carefully think this out. While we want people to pay for their actions, sometimes the price to pay can be terribly high.

What other retibution can she provide?

Pep,

Just before D-Day my WW refinanced almost all of our real estate . I trusted her with my life then , so I signed unquestioning.

It does indeed make me wonder

My WW has issued me a personal check for half the amount of the two checks. Since it has been written on the stopped check account, it is worthless.


When did she write you this check? ~~~ before the bank caught her or after?

She's only there because she got caught.

Committing a CRIME. A CRIME, PEOPLE!

A FELONY.

Don't attach yourself to it by attempting to cover her CRIME up, because endorsing that check does exactly that!

Im amazed there is even a debate about it.

Pep,

The bank did not catch her, I caught her. And yes the check came after she cashed the checks but before she knew she was caught.

She told me that she was desperate for money and that her attorney was pressing her for payment of her legal bill. She also said that was why she had called me at my apartment and on my cell the night before. She couldn't answer my query on why she never left a message( she doesn't know it would have prompted a check of my email and if no NC letter arrived the phone message would have been erase, not listened to)

I also did ask her why after all the things she had done to me she never could find it in her heart or soul to face me and apologize and ask for forgiveness. It took a situation where SHE NEEDED ME to have her admit the error of her ways

Sorry Cy ... she's not through feeding you horseapples <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Folks, if these were tax checks (Department of the Treasury) she forged an indorsement on this indeed will be a federal crime. Cymanca will have no say in how this proceeds. The only way for it not to be her crime is for Cymanca to commit the crime of perjury (Oh yes, that is my signature. I must have forgotten I got that $12K). Surely you good people aren't proposing Cymanca commit a crime to somehow try to rescue WW from hers!!??!! They could BOTH wind up in jail.

"18 U.S.C. § 510(a)(2), which provides:

(a) Whoever, with intent to defraud--

. . . .

(2) passes, utters, or publishes, or attempts to pass,
utter, or publish, any Treasury check or bond or
security of the United States bearing a falsely made or
forged endorsement or signature;

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than ten years, or both."

Whenever someone behaves badly towards us, they write us a blank cheque (sorry!) to behave just as badly and get away with it.

There's always a temptation to take advantage of that.

Cymanca has declined the offer all the way through his sitch.

Cymanca, I think you will not be vindictive here - it's not your style. But please consider carefully what is really in your WW's best long-term interests, and in the interests, frankly, of the wider community. To protect her from prosecution and from losing her licence may seem charitable, but is she someone who really ought to be in a position of trust? If she cannot maintain her integrity when presented with pressure and temptation, should she be allowed to interract with the vulnerable? What is she were ever presented with the opportunity to defraud a patient? Is she worthy of her licence?

This is a lesson she needs to learn.

TA

I don't believe Cymanca should lie, or cover for her, or perjure himself. I think if he has a choice, he should NOT prosecute his wife.

In our marriage, it was somewhat common for one or the other of us (usually me) to endorse a check. I took care of the bills for the first half of the marriage, and didn't think twice about it.

Cymanca says his wife wrote a check to him before he discovered the problem. I really don't see the point of ruining her career.

To me, a felony is raping, killing, assaulting, or harming someone.

She has to have realized that such a large sum of money would be missed, that they are in the middle of a divorce settlement, and would have to count this money as community property. I just don't see a serious crime.

Cy, it's been awhile since I posted but have somewhat followed your story the last several months. I concur with JL's comments, let the chips fall where they may, stay true to yourself and maintain your integrity.

I actually do believe she wanted to pay you back half the money and that is why she first wrote out the check but geez why couldn't she have told you this in advance, at least through her lawyer or a simple phone call or email.

I really would not pay attention to the more personal comments as the D settlement continues to play out. She still has a long way to go to hit rock bottom.

Remember-actions speak louder than words, believe me, you will hear alot of stuff but she needs to back all of that up with action!

Believer, I assume this happened in the context of a trusting relationship? With the full consent (perhaps tacit) of the other party?

Cymanca's is anything but a trusting relationship. There was no consent sought to do this, and no indication that consent would have been given even if it had been sought. If Cy's wife feels it's permissible to assume his consent for this, what else might she 'assume'?

There are different boundaries in a hostile, divorcing situation than in a trusting marriage, and Cy's wife has hugely overstepped them. It is serious.

TA

Nature,

So good to hear from you pal.


Quote:I actually do believe she wanted to pay you back half the money and that is why she first wrote out the check but geez why couldn't she have told you this in advance, at least through her lawyer or a simple phone call or email.

I do not know WHEN she cashed the checks but only when I got copies of the checks, yesterday.

I hope things are going well with you and the missus. You guys are in my nightly prayers.

so she was not trying to steal your half of the funds ... is this correct?

she was "simply" getting her half ASAP because she had her ~divorce attorney~ breathing down her neck about not getting paid in a timely manner ...

hmmmmmmmmmm

well ... did her attorney get paid? it would be interesting to find that out .... but really, what's the point ....

I think if she was not intending to cheat you out of your half .... this is probably not going to go far .... meaning the government will not want to persue this ... pretty small potatoes

don't turn your back on her (meaning like the ocean ... you NEVER want to turn your back on the ocean)

How is this the bank teller's fault? SHE/HE may lose his/her job .... how does that sit with you Believer?

Pep,

I don't know what she was trying to do. The bank teller is being dinged because she did not verify both signatures on the check. The account it was deposited into was under my WW's maiden ( not legal) name and I was not part of that account. So the Treasury Department check was made out to Mr Cymanca xxx and Mrs Cymanca xxx but was deposited in a different last name account.

Again the check she tried to give me last night may have been written immediately after cashing the tax check or it could be 2-3 weeks after the tax checks came through.

According to my banker and my lawyer the only salient point is "did you endorse this check". If I am an honest boy the answer is no. If I say "I did" then I have perjured myself.

I want to do the right thing but I will not lie.

I feel I must clarify one point: I am not suggesting Cymanka take advantage of the situation to MISUSE WW. I am suggesting that he considers his best interests and if they clash with WW interests then he chooses his own.

I will acknowledge that the phrase “Kick her” is inappropriate – if for no other reason than the reference to domestic violence.

As a former police officer I went into dozens of arrests where force was required. As a rule the minimum amount of aggression was used. If a suspect took a swing or pulled a knife there was no compromise – if we had to use force it was hard and effective. Not once was I hurt and not once was a suspect hurt in anyway that he did not heal in a few hours. Did I stoop to the ethics of criminals or street-fighters when making an arrest? Did I lower my morals by intimidating a law-breaker to back down by using threats of grievous bodily harm? I think not. A morally correct man like Cymanca can show firmness and use hard tactics without lowering his morals.

Basically that has been my method since in most hard things in life: direct and as uncomplicated as possible, with escalation on how tough I need to be based on the situation. This is what I am suggesting Cymanca does: Be as hard as required and make decisions based on his interest.

One thing. Since the two of you are still married is there any chance that if she is fined the money will be taken from your combined assets? As strange as that sound I think there is a realistic Catch 22 threat this might happen.

Cy,

Is it possible the pit at the center of this maggoty fruit is ambivalence about whether you still want your WW back, or not?

Perhaps you wonder if you play nice and somehow mitigate the consequences of her dishonest actions she might suddenly love you?

She won’t, you know.

You’ve be playing extraordinarily nice all along. Protecting her yet again will not change her at all. Not even a little bit. The stakes will just continue to escalate since she is nowhere near the bottom yet.

I had a similar situation regarding corporate assets FWW used to conduct her LTA. I chose the higher path too. It turned out well and I feel clean.

And it is a Federal crime, after all.

Death and taxes. Or sometimes stated: The Angel of Death and The IRS. Don’t mess with either.

With prayers,

Aphelion,

No, I don't think I want her back. After she told me about being the best husband, it was like a weight got lifted off my shoulders. While I can not predict the future of any R I might have with her, at this point I have no intention of letting the divorce stop.

Thank you so much for your prayers, I sure can use them

Well, Pep, you know me. I feel sorry for the teller too. Just sad that so many people get dragged into these little dramas.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know you do ... your heart is 'supersized'

the teller made an error and may get fired

WW lied ... and she could get off with no consequences ...

see my point?

"Thank you so much for your prayers, I sure can use them."

You have them. Extra strong tonight.


You too Beliver. You are too good.

Pepperband, short and to the point.
the teller is on my mind too. Fooled by a forger and a check kiter, maybe pressed for time or distracted by Cy's wife so the signature wouldn't be looked at too carefully....

To my way of thinking, it is disrespectful to Cy's stbxw to NOT allow her to experience the consequences of her actions. She is an adult, she made a conscious choice. It's not Cy's responsibility to cover for her, protect her.

I keep thinking as others have written, if she did this so easily, what else is she skimming by with?

Oh, the signature thing? I never signed my H's name to a check nor he to mine. Nor on a greeting card addressed to someone else. Fat lot of good THAT little bit of scruples did in keeping our marriage intact ......

I'll be following your post Cy.

Pep, you keeping out of trouble?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> yezzzzz

Everyone,

After 20 months I just received a No Contact letter.

Copy I Received from my WW

Dear Mxxxxx,

I know that our fling has been off for a while but I'm writing this email to confirm that I no longer want to have any communication with you. I'm blocking your email and I would appreciate if you didn't contact me again.

What I thought I had with you was wrong. I thought by starting a relationship with you would make me happy again. I realize now that that's not the case. You can't build happiness on someone else unhappiness. I want you to know I'm not placing blame on you, I just need to step away from the constant reminder of how I destroyed my marriage. That's something I'm going to have to live with for the rest of my life.

I wish you well. You're young and have plenty of time and opportunity to find the perfect girl for you.

All the best,
Mrs. Cymanca

WOW - Wonders never cease. Maybe your wife is FINALLY getting it. There have been many cases here where the D almost happened and then the WS turned around.

"After 20 months I just received a No Contact letter."

Very suspicious timing.

Good grief.....Cy, your a good man......stop this insanity.....Let the LAW deal with this. You better let her hit rock bottom for her own good. Let the proper authorities do their investigation and let "due process" come to light. If you let her out of this one, what you think is being "compassionate" is just enabling. Your still enabling after all this time.

Why would you as a man, who has taken an oath to "do no harm" and have given up umpteen years of your life to better serve people in sickness....HELP perpetrate a fraud? WHY? I don't understand. Help me understand this, because I do NOT want to make or change my opinion of you. I hold you in extremely high regard. Please tell me that I am just readin this wrong.

As a side not to Believer. I must say, I am awfully
suprised by your comments on this thread and to be honest I am very dissapointed in your view of this. I will leave it at that.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

edited after further thought.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lemonman

Cymanca, do you think it was her intention to steal your money?

Yikes - I thought LM would probably see this one.

Cymanca - When you are weighing the advise here, keep in mind that my WH and I are divorcing, and he spent all of our savings and retirement. I guess I enabled that.

B:

I am gonna give you a "mulligan" here just because. BY your own admission you "know better"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HI Cymanca,

I had a somewhat similar experience (but on a much smaller scale)

I THINK.... you may be able to relate to my story.... and........my solution could be a good compromise for you as well......

Shortest version I can:
My WW came over to our home a while back.... while she was leaving I responded to something nasty she said with something about money (how much I DIDN'T have to give her)

She got VERY VERY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> mad and threw a rock through the window.

I called the police because I wanted to "document" the incident.
When the police arrived they asked "Which way did she go" "what was she driving" ....etc.....

I asked why and they said they were going to arrest her....
I told them that wasn't necessary as I wasn't pressing charges... I just wanted it "on the record"

They told me that if I didn't tell them they had to arrest ME!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So after a couple of minutes talking to them I convinced them to let me call her and tell her to "turn herself in"

Well she turned herself in and a week later the DA called me and wanted to discuss the case with me.

Now my WW is a Nurse that works for the state.... if she was convicted ( even if there was no fine or jail time) she would have LOST her NURSING license!!


What I told the DA (who wanted to throw the book at her) was this.....

My W is not acting like a very nice person right now...
She certainly deserves to be punished in some way.... BUT.... it WAS a momentary act and shouldn't have LIFE ALTERING consequences....

And MORE importantly..... SHE IS A GREAT NURSE... if you take away her license you aren't punishing her.... you are punishing her PATIENTS........they need her....

The DA and I worked out that my WW would be ORDERED to go to anger management./... and to pay for the window... and her case was put on file pending a probationary period of 6 months....

WITHOUT A DOUBT.... my WW obviously made a VERY BAD decision.....BUT it was a WS in a fog and angry......One my WIFE probably would have NEVER made....

I felt it a good FAIR solution because......

I didn't lie.......
I didn't coddle her......
Her bad actions DID have consequences......
BUT.... my WS's actions..... didn't destroy my WIFE'S career........

The other sidebar to this story.... until the court date and for a while after my W HATED me BLAMED me.... etc.... foggy for sure... but she was soooo hurt that I would let her be arrested...etc....

And in your case.... unless your WW is pretty stupid... (not foggy stupid....stupid...stupid) I can't see how she thought she would EVER be able to "Get away" with the money.... I mean you know her better but maybe she really intended to "split" even if it wasl after in the settlement......

GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS..... FRANK

Couldn't have said it better. To disregard it simply abets her actions and has little if nothing to do with your mariage.

Good to hear from you again.

My dear Cy,

What would be happening 'if' the check never happened? Would there still be this 'change of heart', NC letter?

Wondering....wondering....wondering..... Nope don't think so.

But I am not there, u r. Becareful. Me thinks someone is trying to pull her skirt up and the wool over your eyes.

Listen to JL...... let the banks and the law do what they must. Right now there isn't much 4 u 2 do. When the time comes 4 u 2 do your part, u will know.

Sit back and watch the drama. Put your staff on orange alert. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Cy, thanks for your prayers and comments as always. This site really was a saving grace for me. I always appreciated everyone's comments and opinions no matter what they were and truly know I am now a better person after all of the crap I went through.

I think the ultimate question is DO YOU want this marriage or not. It sounds like you do not but I sense more reluctance after receiving the NC letter. I realize your emotions are running wild. I think Orchid has some very valid comments to consider. What do you feel? Your WS seems to be reaching out to you at this most critical juncture as I will attest to as I went through a similar sitch as my divorce ended at the 11th hour. I went to Mass and said many prayers for God to steer me in the right direction and left it up to him. I really thought we were done and my love extinguished but I had to go through and incredibly angry period of bitternes and hate towards her to find not only me but God once again in my Life.

I quoted actions speak louder than words...and then comes the NC letter....this is huge to me but also somewhat suspicious. Only you will know what to do as it is your Life. My guess is she will try to contact you very soon. Let the chips fall where they may based upon what YOU want.

Best regards as always.

Nature

I agree with Orchid. Your WW is in big trouble, needs you to get her out of it, and suddenly, magically, a NC letter appears?

Uh-huh.

What a coinky-dink.

Please don't fall for this, Cy. You have had enough pain already.
Mulan

Cy, I want to know if your love bank has had any movement lately .... up or down ....

Cy,

I also agree with Orchid.Just too much of a convenient time to do the 'ole NC letter.

It reminds me of the time I had had it with my WH.He was trying to tell me it was over with OW only he wouldn't send the NC letter.So I told him that was no longer acceptable and he made a mad dash to get it done and even sent me a copy that very hour and asked, "How is this?" He got scared and then he did what he thought was the right thing but for all the wrong reasons.He never intended on ending it with the homewrecker and contact continued.He just got stuck in a bad scene,was risking losing one of his "women" and this was his ticket out,or so he thought.

Your WW's timing is very suspicious and I would not believe she has had a change of heart.She is in a big mess and is looking for ways out.I don't want you to get hurt so do be careful by trusting her when this is all being done the wrong way.I have seen it happen before and I wish I could remember one other guy here who something similar happened to but it all crumbled.

Protect yourself.

O

Just became aquainted with your sitch for the first time. I am really sorry for you have to even deal with this. I tend to agree with the general opinion to let her deal with this on her own. Maintain your integrity and she will have to build her own integrity by coming to gripa with what she has chosen to do.

As far as the Divorce, only you can answer whether you want to even consider trying to save the M at this late date. Can you take some time to just sort out your own thoughts?
IMHO, it's never too late to save a M until the D is final. The question for you is do you want to risk it?

Loni

Your wife has not hit rock bottom yet. As a matter of fact I think she has not changed a bit and she knows how to play you like a fiddle.

She was caught stealing thousands of dollars from you and she wants off the hook.

If it were me I wouldn't lie for her or shield her. If you come to her rescue I am sure you will be rewarded with a nice kick in the crotch.

Now having said that I know you are a better man than me. I have read your story and I know that you loved her vrey much. The person that you loved is gone and I doubt you will ever see her again.

I wish you well. I hate to see good honest people get hosed by dishonest people. Take care of yourself.

All my friends,

Had to go to a movie last night just to get away from everything. For the life of me, I can't remember what I saw.

Like I said before ,once I reported the check to the bank, actions were started that I no longer have any control over.The bank and the system will take over in that regards.

What I do have control over is my life. Last night , all I could hear in my head were the words of my oft quoted Dr Dobson. Like SAA his book is amazingly accurate.

Yesterday my WW told me she wanted things back the way they were. Words I would have gladly died to hear months ago. But like Dr Dobson's last CD of Tough Love predicts, I don't think that I really want her back.

Thanks to all for your kind advice. Lemon, I hope I haven't disappointed you too much.

HI Cymanca,

I had a somewhat similar experience (but on a much smaller scale)

I THINK.... you may be able to relate to my story.... and........my solution could be a good compromise for you as well......

Shortest version I can:
My WW came over to our home a while back.... while she was leaving I responded to something nasty she said with something about money (how much I DIDN'T have to give her)

She got VERY VERY mad and threw a rock through the window.

I called the police because I wanted to "document" the incident.
When the police arrived they asked "Which way did she go" "what was she driving" ....etc.....

I asked why and they said they were going to arrest her....
I told them that wasn't necessary as I wasn't pressing charges... I just wanted it "on the record"

They told me that if I didn't tell them they had to arrest ME!!


So after a couple of minutes talking to them I convinced them to let me call her and tell her to "turn herself in"

Well she turned herself in and a week later the DA called me and wanted to discuss the case with me.

Now my WW is a Nurse that works for the state.... if she was convicted ( even if there was no fine or jail time) she would have LOST her NURSING license!!


What I told the DA (who wanted to throw the book at her) was this.....

My W is not acting like a very nice person right now...
She certainly deserves to be punished in some way.... BUT.... it WAS a momentary act and shouldn't have LIFE ALTERING consequences....

And MORE importantly..... SHE IS A GREAT NURSE... if you take away her license you aren't punishing her.... you are punishing her PATIENTS........they need her....

The DA and I worked out that my WW would be ORDERED to go to anger management./... and to pay for the window... and her case was put on file pending a probationary period of 6 months....

WITHOUT A DOUBT.... my WW obviously made a VERY BAD decision.....BUT it was a WS in a fog and angry......One my WIFE probably would have NEVER made....

I felt it a good FAIR solution because......

I didn't lie.......
I didn't coddle her......
Her bad actions DID have consequences......
BUT.... my WS's actions..... didn't destroy my WIFE'S career........

The other sidebar to this story.... until the court date and for a while after my W HATED me BLAMED me.... etc.... foggy for sure... but she was soooo hurt that I would let her be arrested...etc....

And in your case.... unless your WW is pretty stupid... (not foggy stupid....stupid...stupid) I can't see how she thought she would EVER be able to "Get away" with the money.... I mean you know her better but maybe she really intended to "split" even if it wasl after in the settlement......

GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS..... FRANK

Yes Pep, I acknowledge hat it was rude. I do apologize for that. But if you read the history behind this situation you can see that all along WW has been disrespectful and inconsiderate of Cymanca. At the same time he has been as considerate and honorable in all his actions.

BIGGER This is the simple beauty and Grace filled message of Christs love....

that inspite of
and no matter her treatment...
even this check signing...

cymanca remains honorable and considerate....
not accepting unnacceptable onslaughts in to his world..but moving with Grace.....

kicking her now would be letting the dark side win...
(just watched return of the Sith...can ya tell)..


ARK

all right having read this now..

lets ask this...

can we have it both ways...

do we agree that sometimes people do need to hit rock bottom to have the wake up call needed to move from inertia or bad actions to good??

AND

if we believe this then how and when do we decide what is rock bottom for someone else....

would she say these things IF she wasn't in trouble...

I dunno know...

is that as important as WHAT she is saying AND what her ACTIONS are or become....

I dunno know....

do we want a WS to forever be a WS and have them seal their own coffin forever...
OR
do we believe that people can change the way they think and see things.....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

musing out outloud.............

it is my opinion that in human nature...most of us need to hit some type of bottom to iniate great change....

some people live in very very shallow pools...while others flounder in the dark deep murky waters for a long long time...

ARK

Please help,

Thank for the post. I may not like a lot of things about my WW but she is a great Speech Pathologist. And I would have said the same thing on D-day.

Ark,

I wish that I could truly measure up to the very many kind words written about my actions. My personal philosophy has always been that I am 100% responsible for everything that happens inmy life. When you take that thru your day, it uncomplicates so many of the puzzles of life.

Cymanca,

You have to ask yourself this question....

Is she only "sorry" because she doesn't want to be prosecuted?

Lady

Ladysheep,

What I do or don't do will not change the course she has put herself on. Only the bank has that power..

We all really like you CY ... can you tell?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Cy:

I'm trying 2 stay gone for a while, but I had 2 chime in here. The NC letter was 'okay', but the timing is 2 coinkydinkular for comfort. Also, she shouldn't have said that the hopes the OM has a happy life or whatever it was (though she probably shouldn't say anything like "I hope you wind up in the ground" either, as that will happen soon enough for all of us).

But shouldn't there be at least 2 or 3 additional NC letters?

not that it matters 2 you, though.

I like your high road. the view is sublime from up there.

-ol' 2long

2long,

You are absolutely correct that she needs to write a few more NC letters. She also needs to write some apology letters to people that she has hurt badly by her actions. And I hope she writes them. I don't want nor do I need to see them.

You're good people Cy.

The high road may be rockier than the low road, but the view is awesome from up here.

I pulled a "dorry" ... wrong thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Cyman.

Quote:
===============================
My personal philosophy has always been that I am 100% responsible for everything that happens inmy life. When you take that thru your day, it uncomplicates so many of the puzzles of life.
===============================

I guess you know I believe exactly the same thing. What happens to your wife is a matter between her, law enforcement and God. I wouldn't want to try and circumvent whatever consequences are headed her way due to her own actions. She made the bad choices.

Not getting what she needs from those choices could do her far more harm for the rest of her life than a short stay in jail.

God bless,
Gimble

Like I said before ,once I reported the check to the bank, actions were started that I no longer have any control over.The bank and the system will take over in that regards.

When you reported the check to the bank that was the first step in you prosecuting her. The Bank won't be prosecuting her unless they are "out" that money. If a stop payment was placed on it...the check is returned and the Bank debits her account that amount..plus a fee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If her account is in an overdraft status because of that check being stopped, that will result in the bank going after her. They won't be the ones prosecuting her for forgery...you will be the one that signs the affadavit to prosecute.

Also, if another check is being issued to replace that one, if she is entitled to half of it, she might want that half to go toward the deficit in her account. That will aid in bringing her account to a positive balance and the bank is out of the picture then...other than to testify for you when you prosecute for forgery. Forging is not only stealing someone's money, it is also stealing another person's signature and identity. That is why you will be the one proseuting.

I worked in banking for many years, and I've seen this more times than I care to count...and I know that unless you prosecute for THAT check being forged, the bank won't get involved with that particular check. They will just want money to bring that account current. And, more than likely they will promptly close her account and place her on the "do not open an account for" list. Her half of that 12k would probably take care of that, so the bank could care less what happens then. They are ONLY concerned with it if it affects them being "out" the money.

Well...at least that is the way it was when I was in banking years ago. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Lord...wordy wordy wordy..

committed

committed,

Thanks for info, a lot different than what I have been able to get from my banker. They have recently been acquired by a huge foreign bank and perhaps their is a different way of handling these incidents from bank to bank?

Thanks so much

Still here. Never left.. Just observing, watching, learning and taking personal notes on what works and what does not work on winning a spouse back... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


As far as your situation goes now.... They almost always come back WHEN they FEEL you have let go. Most people on here are stuck on believing it is the plan B. It isn't. It is the feeling the WS gets when you finally take off all pressure to come back to you. It isn't about plan A or Plan B. It is about doing the things in my signature line... Many on here are stuck on what plan they are in. They are missing the boat because it isn't the plan you are in, but the way you are perceived by the WS. Once you take off all pressure to save the marriage, is when they finally get to wonder if they are doing the right thing and if they have gone to far. That is when their own guilt can set in because up until you let go, they deflect their guilt back on you because you are pressuring them to come back, even though their FEELINGS are elsewhere. That's why you can't get them back until they FEEL you have let go and until they FEEL you will be and can be perfectly fine without them. It isn't the plan B. It isn't the plan A. It is the letting go and the confident,respect yourself spirit you present to them that works....


Now for your newest dilemma...

Do whatever you can to help her out here. DO NOT LET THEM PROSECUTE HER without you trying to help stop the process.

There is NO REASON whatsoever to prosecute her or to make her go through this. It is STUPID of anyone to say different......


Let it go. Forgive her (for the forged check) help her and move on.. Tell her you understand why she forged( "signed") your name, tell her it is no big deal and move on ("keepmovn4wrd" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)... Women are not attracted to men who try to punish them or those who come across like they hold a grudge. Pepperband and the others are wrong for advising you to let her take her own medicine for this. Real men don't do things like that. Let it go. No biggie...


That doesn't mean you take her back with open arms into a relationship...

I have also worked in banking. I have experience as a teller that cashed a forged check <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. Not exactly what one wants on their resume.

We had a couple who came in weekly and she would always cash a check. It varied but was usually about $4-500. It was always on her account and he was just a boyfriend. He was usually involved, either with her at the time or later he would cash the check she had written out to him. It was an account we didn't even check to see if the funds were there because we were that familiar with them and the routine.

Well one day she comes in wanting to know why she was overdrawn. So we start looking around in her account and she pulls out a check and says "I didn't write this check". Sure enough she didn't and guess who cashed it? Yep. Me. The boyfriend had written a check and signed her name and came in and cashed it. At the point she was in the bank, we learned that they had broken up previous to the forged check.

I was not fired. I don't remember even getting in trouble. I think the general consesus was that he had done a dang good job of forgery and that it could have been any one of us. Luckily I think he was caught and I think (not real sure) that the bank/account holder all came out o.k. in the end.

I know the rules have changed some since my days at the bank and it is much more strict. I think one thing that has changed or is more strictly enforced is with government checks. I have noticed personally with our tax checks etc. that if they are written out to 2 people that no matter what both parties have to sign or be on the account for deposit.

That would be the tellers responsibility to look for since that is the rule...but I know chit happens and mistakes are made. So, I guess I can sympathize with her but there are definately grounds for being fired <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I hope it all works out for you Cymanca. It is definately an interesting tale and I admire your integrity through this whole thing.

Cymanca,

Yes, It is possible that they do things differently because of that.

You're Welcome.

committed

P.S. For what it's worth, I do lean toward NOT doing anything other than getting another check issued and BOTH of you taking it to the bank for it to be split. I wouldn't relish the questions from the DA...the court appearances...the delays. The attorney's fees alone could take up that amount making it a costly lesson for her but also a costly nuisance for you. Chances are you will have to retain an attorney if it turns into a civil matter. Who needs it....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Committed,
I don't see the bank doing much either as the check was probably not returned to the bank (unless the checks are inspected at the issuing bank for endorsement??) If the check has not been returned to Cy's bank for forged endorsement then the bank is not out the money. It is then between Cy and his STBXW and the bank. It could go a few different ways from there.

Keepmovn4r,

Wow, what a surprise! So nice to hear from you. Like I said, I never forgot what you had written and your early posts have governed my actions throughout(along with Dr Dobson).

Pipe in anytime. And thanks for your insight. It may not help my situation any longer but I hope all the other posters pay attention to what was done and why it was apparently succesful.

married,

Yes...I don't see the bank being out any money unless the US Treasury sends a request through because of "forgery" and then it would only be because cymanca requested it.

If she deposited the money and has spent the majority of it...then it becomes problematic.

They simply don't check the back for correct endorsements UNLESS someone reports theft, fraud, forgery...things of that nature.

We had people want to claim fogeries on their checking account and funds being returned to their accounts because of the "forgery". My bank made it mandatory that NO monies would be returned due to forgery unless the customer signed an affadavit promising to prosecute the forger...no matter WHO it was. If they refused to do that...no monies were returned to them.

The banks here do not sue for forgeries...the person whose signature was forged has to...if they want their money back.

Banks might have their own in-house policies too which makes it hard to guess what they will do.

committed

gee, thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Dang Ark...I like that analogy...wish I would have thought of it myself.....come to think of it, I think I did "coin" that analogy, please give me the bibiliographic reference in the future.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wow.....I think I have seen it all.

SO in essence you are saying that real men don't let people remain accountable for their actions. Ok, I guess if you say so.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> What a joke.

But alas, I will let this one go....I certainly do not ever need someone to tell me what a "real man" is in this life.


I have no doubt that there are countless people walking the face of the earth who are thankful that this "unreal" man was on this earth the night life dealt them or their loved one a bad blow.

LOL.....things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

LOL.....CY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I consider us kinship, even if you are a meat head "bone doc"....one thing you can be certain of in this life, is that you don't ever have to think of changing to please me.

I re-read your post, and put myself in your situation, and I understand. It is tough.....and ofcourse easy for any of us to give you advice knowing full well we don't have to live with any of the consequences of that advice.

Not much else to say. I have my opinion on the matter...and you have read countless others....does it really matter in the end what we think?

Your a smart man, and you will no doubt do what is RIGHT for you....that, I have no question about.

Later

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry keepmovn4wrd but that statement is nothing more than pretzel logic at it finest. Cy's manhood [or for that matter any other honorable male BS here in this forum] is not defined/dependent by whether or not he is willing to rescue the inmature female to whom he is still legally married to from the consequences of her stupid [and possibly criminal] actions. In fact, in this case anyway, it is more appropriate to say that: 'Real women don't do things like that'.

TMCM

Absolutely. Dumbest. Advice. Ever.

Thank God you didnt spout this to DaniinVA when her hubby forged checks and cashed them.

And this situation no way compares to throwing a rock through a window (as inferred by another poster).


Women aren't attracted to spineless men, either.

Doesn't that advice actually go against the whole intent of Plan B which Cy has put an extreme amount of effort into?

It's not his place to "bail" WW out her, this is the reality SHE created.

Cy's role would have been different if he'd had the opportunity to be the H.... WW wasn't interested in his help before, nor was she interested in the devastation she's caused him, but he should jump all over himself now because she's gotten herself in a pickle?

Isn't there a part of anyone that offers she considered the consequence BEFORE action taking the action, and already kind of KNEW...Cy wouldn't do her "harm"?

Such is the life of the WW detached from reality.

I say she's highly overdue for the wakeup call. Cy has had to maintain his career, his demeanor, his self esteem, through all this.

WW didn't do so much running to help HIM when he was down.

I'm sorry things come to this sometimes...but in all honestly...this is how this usually works.

Everyone,

After 2-3 phone calls from my WW that I could not answer since Friday, I got this email from her tonight

//Cymanca,

I've been doing a lot of thinking this weekend. Seeing you in your office put me in a state of confusion. I have tried calling you and dropping by your office many times over the months. I'm certain you're aware but have been avoiding me. Despite some of the things you said to me on Wednesday, I think that in your heart, you never really wanted me back. If that's the case, I think we both deserve to get on with our lives. I saw you the other night with L( my ex-girlfriend) and you looked happy. Believe it or not, that's all I ever wanted for you. I'm just sorry I wasted 9 years of our lives. ///

She then details how we should deal with all of our property, in very exacting detail.

To me it seems a repudiation of the character of her NC letter, while also placing the blame for the demise of the M on me.

That is my take on it. What is yours?

Hm..... writing in the fog..... Hm..... me thinks u r right on the $$.

She is waving bait and expects you t/b taken to the cleaners, graciously....maybe even thank her for all this?

Trying to lay guilt on you is right. To the untrained eye, this could look like a good letter but reading all the words shows otherwise.

Be cautious and play it safe. Don't get caught in any 'rip tides'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

I mentioned she would try contacting you soon and here it is.

The paragraph you quoted above is again, IMHO, her trying to reach out to you and see where you are at...something is wrong in her life at this time, maybe her OM are no longer around paying attention to her, that is my guess. Does she really want the M? Probably not but she is having doubts about the D and trying to feel you out. I also went through a similar situation.

Yes, this does seem to discount the NC letter, if she really wanted this there would be action. The additional comments about dividing property also seem to back that up. I mean, why write the NC letter and then this? She is very confused at this time and looking to you for validation.

Again, it's up to you, dear Cy, the ball is firmly in your court. I would follow orchid's cautious approach. My guess is this type of see-saw behaviour will continue, she is on the fence still and looking to see who will catch her once she falls.

Best of luck.

Nature

Nature,

If you read this,do let us know how you are doing with your W.Last I heard you were doing well.If you don't wish to respond that is ok.Hope you and your W are doing well.

O

-sorry for the TJ Cy.In all honesty,I do think your siutation is different than Natures' since I/we followed that all along.I truly think this confusion is based solely on the huge risks going on and what she did,not for any truthful desire to end it with OM and reconcile but that's just my opinion.

Cymanca, It has been an interesting turn of events...although I have not posted....I have been lurking and following your progress.

I was just wondering if you had ever written a Plan B letter which you could refer WS to? I agree with many who have posted here that say that WS has done "just enough" no more or no less than what is necessary to keep her in the game....the fog has lifted some for her to see some reality, but would a real lifting of the fog be, "what are ALL the necessary steps it would take for me to return"?

I do think you have her thinking....funny thing how facing reality has a way of making that happen.

Stay strong, Cymanca....you are doing great....the truth will set you free.

CY,
Very end of my workday and I see this post!

First things first. Walk upright. Tell the truth.

Secondly, who gives a darn what she thinks. At this stage, this marriage is about what you want. The only change that will come, will be the divorice or the restoration of the marriage. Where you two are at now, you WILL KNOW when she comes to you repentantly. I think you will have NO DOUBT about her intentions. Until then, I would keep on trucking...the timing of this stuff, it's garbage, and I wouldn't believe it. Hard times do not equate into repentance, and honestly, that is the only way for you to be able to forgive her completely (I believe--I know it's not true, you forgiving her is completely on you, but, she has to make some drastic changes for you to be able to move forwards.)

Anyways...imo, you ain't there yet. Keep moving forwards in your Plan B. Let her weave whatever lies she needs to tell herself to make her feel good. You know what kind of man you are, and where you stand, wash her opinion aside.

Hang in there.

Nature, 10Girl, SS,RookKev, and Orchid,

Thanks for your posts. I have been tied up the last day trying to make flight connections for my aunt's funeral. She was the only remaining sibling of my mom (family of 11). My mom and aunt were definitely cut out of the same cloth. My aunt was about 5' and 90 lbs soaking wet and took care of my wheelchair bound cousin by herslf for the last 20 years. I can never say that I didn't have heroes in my life when I think of these two. They could be stubborn and opinionated and sometimes I swear I could kill them both but no matter what happened...Family was always first. Two widows in a new country, with demanding kids, didn't speak the language, couldn't drive a car but refused to go on the public dole for even one minute.

I truly fear for our country as these WW II veterans slowly pass away. They were forged of a different steel, hardened by life and guided by their love of God, their children, and their country.

Since you asked for opinions of what we think she means..
as in none of us really know..

the tone I get is her wallowing in self pity and blame...

I'm so bad I know you wouldn't want me anyways......
blah blah blah..

again in my opinioin pretty typical WS behavior...make themselves out to be such the bad person....no one could ever ever forgive them.........

She's handed you lots of points to refute..
and I think that is what she wants...

"NO it wasn't nine years wasted"
"no there were times I wanted you back"


again cymanca...
because I need to believe firmly in the thought that people CAN change...I still have hope even for your WS..

doesn't mean I think she has in this case...but I remain hopeful that it is possible....

and it doesn't mean I think she hasn't..

I don't know the answer..
and the that answer is really as important as what it is YOU desire...

but again in my opinion people hitting bottom and reaching out...is on one level exactly what human nature calls us to do.........
AND our response to call is what we are called to do also from a higher level...

some people don't have a rock bottom and they are lost..
some find it some time in their life...

thankfully....

ps sorry to hear of your loss...

ARK

I really like this. If only it could be rock bottom for her, and along with that the posibility of a life of happiness for her, instead of a life of blame & pain...always seeking something from outside, and never finding. yuck.

I hope it is rock bottom for her..."amazing grace" and all that wonderful stuff.

Hang in there Cy.

Ark,

Quote:
I don't know the answer..
and the that answer is really as important as what it is YOU desire...

I have always been a very decisive man, a product of my heritage and my profession. But now I am racked with indecision. In the last months I had gotten to the point where I had regained my sense of purpose and looked towards a future. I also spent much of that time hoping that the next time I opened my email, I would find that precious NC letter email.

When I finally got it there was a very small feeling of satisfaction but the majority of what I felt was the regret that I was back in the turmoil. I feel almost paralyzed with indecision. I have prayed for an answer to come to me.

Perhaps no decision is the best decision. My potential R will only have the legs that WW gives them.

I agree my man..

that sounds right and smart...

My suggestion is always keep hope alive....not so that it hurts you...but because it will help serve you be a better person to believe in hope....

I think that for some reason some of the responses to your wife trigger in me some great fear that I people would give up on me...

and that's seems really frightening to me...
which is not to say that people shouldn't protect themselves and should have realistic expectations and invest cautiously ...

all the things you are doing...

but that giving up ..
that final nail in the coffin scares me...

cause I could be her.. in some other life....
and it just sounds more lonely than anything else I can imagine....

and I am NOT NOT saying go to her and profess love and forgiveness...
she's got a ton of work to do to work her way back..
and ton..
and her words without action are meaningless.....

I guess I always have loved the underdog.............

ARK

Ark,

In my opinion SHE is the underdog. I can leave this marriage with my self respect and moral compass intact.

It dawned on me this am that what bothered me most about the latest email from WW is that it reflects a basic lack of respect for me. This lack of respect was and is at the very core of her A. I spent 20 months showing her that while I wanted her back, I would no longer permit her to disrespect me, our M or herself.

In my opinion SHE is the underdog.

Sorry for the misunderstanding I too without hesitation see her as the underdog....not you for a second...

I think you give her too much credit in even saying her email is disrespectful...I don't think she is deep enough to put that much thought in to her and is going for the easy reactive emotional fluff...

as with most ANY attention is better than none...so any rise she gets out of you..

confirming her self flogging sentiments
or
denying them is something....

I think she is disrespectful...but I don't think she means to be......

I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you...

I don't want plant doubt or confuse you.

you know this woman better than I
you know your own heart better than I

the time line though is about right for reality of consequences to start nipping her in the BEhind.....

ARK

Ark,

Quote:
I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you

I think that you hit it on the head. THAT is what a good Plan B does, you go dark and it drives em crazy.

But while I agree that I do know my WW's heart and person better than anyone....do you think that might be actually detrimental to the entire process? How many times have we all seen a credible, non-emotional objective evaluation of someones situation by a poster and we all applaud the post. THEN when that same poster has to make decisions about their own situation, all rational thought is thrown out the window. The recent situation with Coach comes to mind.

In medicine we say " The person that treats himself has a fool for a doctor"

I don't want,nor can I be, that fool.

I am reading all these posts and see you getting drawn back into the drama of the pre/post A business(as you eluded to).Life is full of loss and while I understand ark's theory there is a point of no return in some circumstances.

You don't have to do anything now about your WW.See what transpires.Live your life still as if nothing really happened since there isn't much that you should do at this point regarding your WW IMO.

If reconcilitaion with your WW is in "divine order"(give it up to God,) then it will come to pass but by your WW's hand.Unlike Nature, who's WW was reaching out to him without the threat of jail time and coerced NC,your actions must be circumspect right now.Of course we would all love to see your marriage survive and be better just remember to follow all the rules of this "game".

A NC sent has to be followed through with other acts of truthfulness.The mere act of drafting one and sending it(do we know the OM actually received it?) does not a recovery make.

BS's should want to be more than the just last chance of the WS.But I am still hopeful for you as we all are.

O

Good point, and something that is NEVER lost on ME when I am reading the advice and opinions people give.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

10Girl,

Your clarity is always refreshing and much appreciated.

And no, I do not know if the OM received the message and/or if she truly blocked her address from him. If she is lying about that, she will be the one to ultimately suffer from her duplicitous actions.

For now,at least remember the old adage: Actions speak louder than words.

Hang in there.

I firmly believe the reality of the situation is finally hitting her. Her M is nearly over and D looms, her OM is nowhere to be found and now she is in the midst of a bank fraud. Who to turn to? Why, Cy of course, he will listen to me, he will listen to me, yes, he wanted a NC letter, I will send it, let's see how quick he calls me......and now you are barely listening and obviously not calling which is throwing her mind into a tizzy because NOW SHE KNOWS she is about to lose everything and possibly face losing her job/career due to the check mishap.

Like I said and Ark echoed (always loved your posts Ark):

"I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you...

It is killing her to know the one person who truly cared for her is no longer caring...and shows the ultimate in self-respect, honesty and dignity and has held his head up HIGH and that is why she is desperately trying to reach out to you, sort of a last gasp to see if you are still there.

And that is really the key question all along, are you still there Cy and WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? You may have to leave this up to God and let the chips fall where they may...or you may need to also say some prayers for you and your WS and begin the process of FORGIVENESS. That is the only hope for your M if it is meant to be saved by either one of you.

Yes, we all know there is so much more that she needs to do, but these are very small steps on the road to what this site is all about: MARRIAGEBUILDING..

So, Cy, what do you want to do?

God bless you in this difficult period.

Nature

Cymanca,

""I think she's twisting in the wind for anything from you

I think that you hit it on the head.""

You can honestly say "THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM!" or

"And your plight concerns me HOW??"

k

OK, Cy.........so at least you are able to see that after 20 months of this $hit...you can still count on her to show disrespect to you.

So, I ask you as others have here (and you seem to be dodging the question)...what do YOU want to do here. Do you want this marriage back?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Cyman.

My thoughts are along the same line as Lemon's here;

What are you getting if you take her back?

Unless she has repented (and I am not talking about a religious act here) and turned away from her bad behavior, having recognized that she has been on a serious path toward destruction, then you would be taking back a known problem.

Consider this. IF she has indeed had such an epiphany, fully recognizing the error of her ways, then are you capable of the instruction and patience necessary to lead her in the right way? Are you capable of tolerating her inevitable falls along the way? Are you capable of dealing with the near daily emotional onslaught as your mind tries to wrap itself around her past and potential future actions?

An opinion; I know this sounds silly, Cyman, but isn't it time for a new car. You might be able to fix your old up one more time, but at what cost? At what point in time do you decide that you have spent enough on repairs?

God bless,
Gimble

Not silly at all Gimble....I indeed like the analogy and think it makes perfect sense for this situation.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your wife reminds me of the character Eva Longoria plays - Gabrielle Solis ... on Desperate Housewives. I have that kind of picture of her in my mind.

Sometimes we create, in our minds, the character we want our spouses to have and the reality is not like that at all. Sometimes they convince us by playing to that character but eventually they reveal their true selves by their actions.

I don't know if she has ever been the wonderful woman you thought she was when first you met.

Sometimes I get glimpses of the dark side of my FWH but he usually has been good at keeping it in check for the last few years. Sometimes it is an internal battle that must constantly be fought to remain in the light.

Nature, krusht,Lem, Trix, and Gimble,

Just a reminder that the D is proceding with another mediation session scheduled after Thanksgiving.. We have come to a lot of agreement except for an extremely complicated real estate ownership that we share with several other docs.

Forgive me the analogy but I feel like the hiker that was trapped with his arm under a boulder. He didn't know if help was moments away or if he should cut off his own arm to save his life. He saved his life but I will bet he will often look back at the sacrifice he made. He will wonder how much longer he could have held out in hopes that a miracle could have occured and his entire body would now be intact.

There are many hard steps that I spelled out to my WW that she needs to take for us to even discuss recovery. The least of which is complete , total and permanent separation of any friend or FAMILY that I( with great emphasis on the I part) feel has been anti our M. So while her NC letter was stunning, it itself is just a miniscule part of my delineated plan for recovery.

Keep it coming guys, I don't know how I can ever repay you.

Hi, Cyman.

Have you ever seen either of the "Pet Sematary" (with an 'S') movies?

There is a great lesson contained within the movies.

Gimble

Gimble,

No I haven't. I will try to hunt one down. I am a big movie buff.

I did see Spanglish last night and the similarities between Tea Leoni's character and my WW's was spooky.

Well, I'll be damned..I saw that movie too yesterday on Showtime or Cinemax (can't remember which one).

Dang TIVO taped it for me thinking I would like it...and you know what........I DID. Not a bad movie. Not something I would have ordinarily sought out, but I liked it all the same.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

reviving the already dead ... does not a joyful reunion make

Pep,

Quote:
//reviving the already dead//

I thought that was what Viagra was for???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Just because you don't understand what I am talking about doesn't mean Cy doesn't. It isn't what he thinks about himself that matters, but what SHE thinks of him. If he wants to prosecute her, then it is fine by me. I beg to differ. It is not a smart move.
Here is just one example of why it isn't...
Suppose she gets convicted of a felony and then they get back together. She now has a felony on her record. At that point it not only becomes her problem but HIS as well. Things like credit reports, things like filling out resumes, and too many other things that are too numerous too mention. It can never be taken away... NEVER...
THINK....

As far as "real women" don't do such things... I agree. However, she isn't asking advice. HE is. She confessed what she did, she has tried to make it right, and said she was sorry. HE needs to forgive her and move on. He shold still play his cards close to his vest on getting back together. They are not one and the same YET...


Go ahead.... You guys keep giving him the advice to let her pay her own consequences for this and I will watch and learn what happens. It will not bring them back together. It is punitive in THIS case.

keepmovn,

Thanks for keeping an eye out for me. Seeing that you are getting gabby <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ( two responses in couple of days); Can I ask you what you would consider my next move(if any) should be. We spend a HUGE amount of time trying to get to the NC or reapproachment time but very little on the actual R.

I am definitely not in or near R but how should it be structured in your opinion?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

to keepmovin -

I agree. When does the time come when we start to look through the eyes of love and compassion, and let the role of victim/blame go?

Cymanca is no longer in severe pain, in need of protection from the selfish and hurtful actions of his WW. He has the scars now which will shield him from any future onslought.

Never will he feel the same intensity of pain, shock and grief as he already has. And no longer does Cy need to be a victim.

He is the victor now, because he took the high road...and still has compassion for his WW.

I think she will bottom out now either way...if you take her back Cymanca or if you do not. The wheel has started and will continue in it's spin until she does.

I don't know if you will end up together or not in the future, but I know either way you are going to find great love...because it lives inside you.

But Cymanca, you are no longer the victim here. You are in the drivers seat, and you can conduct any property settlement, reconciliation, friendship from that position.

You have come so far from the man who made the Christmas card and the pictures. What pain you were in back then.

As so many of us have.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

keep:

I apologize for not coming 2 your defense a 2ple days ago. I'd been thinking about it.

Bottom line, I think you're right. In this case, why not be helpful if it's no sweat off Cy's stones 2 do so?

High road stuff. Not rocket surgery (forgot who I ripped that off her on MB).

The "plans" and the stuff that goes along with them are for self-preservation, not malice.

-ol' 2long

Weaver,

I am sure my WW would have written it that I was a pain , not in pain. I agree that I am in the driver's seat. But I am all gassed up and looking at the maps spread out in front of me and wondering how I get to that place called future.

I think this is the $64,000 question, is it not??

Is there a chance, an inkling, a neutrino size possibility that this may happen??

As has been said "ANYTHINGS POSSIBLE!!" But is this?

Cyman, could this ever be an option?

k

Cym:

Sorry about your sitch but until your ww eliminates any and all contact, it will be difficult, if not impossible for her to reconnect with you. In my experience, the ww must go through WD and the time period they blame the BS for taking away the love of their, their OP.

You must continue to accept the majority of the blame for things you never did, for the marriage problem that you didn't cause, and for the anti-spouse feelings your WW has for you. Your redemption day will come much later. It may take 6 to 9 months for remorse and for some reconnection to happen. In the mean time, you must suffer your just due as all of us BS's had to do for reasons unbeknown to us.

Don't expect a victory over the defeated, don't expect good will win over evil, simply hope that you can survive against the most difficult of the battles to fight, and that is your spouse falling in love with another person at your expense. You must remember they feel the same for their lover as they felt for you when they fell in love with you many years ago.

This love they feel is so real to them, even though it is built on fantasy. Don't give up hope. You are a smart man but you are fighting the devil himself.

TooSoon

CY, help a brother out here.....I am confused here.

Did she say whe wants to "reconcile", did she say that she will end all contact with the OM and wants to work out the marriage and halt the divorce, has she shown you actions that would indicate that Do you still love her? I am lost, between her NC letter to you, and to him, and then assett dividing, and pretzel twisting and bank fraud charges. Where the he## does this all stand today. Not interpretations of intrepreations, just facts.

Lem

Lem

krusht,

I have 20 months and at least 3 OM's to forgive and forget. Before all of this started I would have crawled through broken glass to get a CHANCE to get her back if the shoe were on the other foot. I can't see that happening with my WW.

Never say never and having been on these forums since 4-04 and seeing things in medicine that don't make any rational sense, who am I to deny God his choice if it occurs?

BTW God if you are listening, I don't like subtle signs. Make it BIG.

Oh boy..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Cy, have you been sniffing the "funny stuff" on the other side of the table....? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lemon,

She sent me the NC letter after coming to my office to say she wanted things the way they were and telling me that she couldn't find a better husband. She also wanted me to sign a tax check on which she had forged my name. I refused to sign the check. I have not spoken to her since that day one week ago but she has sent me several emails. The divorce process is going forward, it was never derailed.

Sorry to be so confusing but I have tried to report her actions as they happened. The general conversation here has been in regards to her state of mind, is she truly contrite, and has she done enough to effect a reconciliation.

A resounding no to the last question. I remain pretty much "dark" as before.

The other question is "Would you be willing to take her back". The answer to that is I don't think so.

I hope that clears things up but if not fire away and I will answer to the best of my ability.

Lemon,

Naw, they just changed the soda cannisters in the anesthesia machines yeterday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Lol....nice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was wondering...it was just a premature ventricular contraction I see...."my bad".

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lemon,

I am leaving for a meeting in a couple of minutes. If you have a chance, I would really appreciate some input from you post D of almost one year. How is your life? Are you dating? Do you run into ExW? Do you still see her mother? How is life treating you? and the big one ARE YOU HAPPY WITH NO REGRETS?

Spookier- I watched it for the first time yesterday as well, on HBOHD.
When the Sandler character talks about how he heard a sound in his head when the WW confesses... I'd been there and I almost bawled my eyes out.

I didnt like the ending, though...

.....& U call yourself a doctor?!?!?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Luv'ya.

L.

If reconcilitaion with your WW is in "divine order"(give it up to God,) then it will come to pass but by your WW's hand.Unlike Nature, who's WW was reaching out to him without the threat of jail time and coerced NC,your actions must be circumspect right now.Of course we would all love to see your marriage survive and be better just remember to follow all the rules of this "game".

Believer...

I agree whole heartedly with this sentiment....then it will come to pass...beautifully said...

and i am by no means telling cymanca to buy her roses and sweep things under the rug....

BUT
what I am saying is I am fearful of we the collective deciding what is hitting bottom and what is not hitting bottom....for someone else...

AND
I am fearful of our inability to see God's Grace in someone hitting bottom....

her attempts at reaching out are feeble and weak at best...but that is all she has known for a long long time..

the layers of rationalization are deep..
as is her lie upon lie...
and acts of honor are far far removed from her

we should not judge her attempts...
for there is some good in them...
which does NOT mean throw her a party...

but she is very lost...
and what she is offering is better than NOTHING>..atleast that is what I believe...

is Cymanca forced to
or even called to be her savior and way home to the light again...

not necessarily....

BUT I am huge proponent of giving credit to even the smallest of good deeds ...for they can be building blocks...and I believe it is the tiniest seeds of change..one act of kindness
one act of clarity
one act of taking responsibility....
can be the start..

I am not even saying she has done any of this...but when I give up my hope that it can happen....all is lost...

I am not saddened by Cys choice that he has had enough..
I respect that....
and find no problem with that....

no blame no onus of responsibility..

but we should always try to see our own defenses we buildup and obtain to survive the onslaught and horrificness of infidelity....and make sure it doesn't forever cloud our vision to see good things when they do and or might occur...

I may not know when i have hit bottom so I pray that others around have the wisdom to see it and pull me back....

cymanca is a good man....

his journey as been painful and unfair....
and I wish him only respite

there are people that are evil and vile to the core...
and we have jails for them and that is where they belong till they die...without question...

and then we have people who just get so lost and so far removed from things...
that they become just lonely and pitifull...

till they do right by those they have wronged no good will ever come for them....

but...
and here's my but
that doing right by those they have wronged must start somewhere....

I don't know why I am rambling on this topic...
it has triggered something in me...

so I ask for pardon as I use this forum and poor cymanca to figure out why villifying her swarmy attempts at best has me so sad..........


cymanca you are a good man...
and you do deserve better......


ARK^^

If I didn't read so much here on the forum, i would be tempted to hope that if and when my WH takes the first steps towards NC with OP and a willingness to reconcile, that there would also be immediate and complete remorse and acknowledgement for all the pain and suffering the BS has gone through.
But that is not typically so. There is often a long and painful withdrawal period, breeches of NC that set back to square one. It's not until withdrawal is over that recovery can begin.

Cy, I think your WW is showing signs of wanting to save the M, but she is not sure that it is possible or that you want it. Do you? The potential rewards may be great, but it is a long, strenuous, and painful road. Would it be worth it to you?

TooSoon and Ark have hit a soft chord in my heart. Amazing that there is a still soft chord there. My WS is in deep fog and doesn't seem a bit fazed by my Plan B darkness at all.

Wishing you a continued personal recovery in whatever you choose for your future, Cy...

Cy,

Your head must be swimming with all these "opinions" coming at you.Hope it's not too overwhelming.You can always say stop.

Let's back up a moment:

I don't perosnally see where there is a tride and true remorsseful desire here to reconcile.She basically hands you this NC letter that we have no idea if it truly made it to OM or if she is being honest about it already being over,but she also at the same time wants you to endorse a forged check? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Is this the mark of a woman truly hitting bottom or just caught in the act again?

Ark,I am flattered you that you quoted me as believer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but referring back to Cy's analogy of the man caught under the rock: no one can ever know what the future holds and by that awareness,we have choice and free will.Whether or not it's divine order or it "just happens",Cy cannot know for certain what his WW is thinking or what her motives are at any given time partly based upon her past actions,she is untrustworthy.

Yes he could wait and see if his WW is hitting bottom and be there with open arms or even just a curiosity but we all know that's a fools game with a WS.She admits to wanting things the way they were.No acknowledgement that things CANNOT go back to the way they were in any sense.She hasn't fully grasped the total destruction done here.I suppose I am less "forgiving" in this matter as I expect the seriousness of the severe pain and suffering to be taken into account on some level and ammends made in order for a BS to risk,taking back a WS.

The balance must be weighed with taking a WS back and going thorugh those actions and years of recovery,even on the best of terms or following through on the D and what that entails and what CY wants.Not a day goes by,still,that I don't wonder the what if's but those have no weight in my life now since it was very clear that my WH was not going to change or do any self introspsection but more so since that old life is over and I can never go back.There is,for some,a point of no return.It is unhealthy and not in the best interest of the individual to take that path despite how difficult it can be to come to terms with that.We all know that not every marriage should be saved but we are all having this very indepth discussion about CY's life when if you look back to what happened,it was a minor,IMO,action on the part of the WW that for other posters may have been given much less creedence.

I beleive we should judge attempts.We do watch and account all actions by a WS.That is how we survive and plan for our futures,with or without them.The term "judge" seems to have a negative aspect as if only God can do this but when you look at the definition:evaluate;estimate,et al,then it is a natural response in our daily lives.WS's are lost but just how long do we hold out for them? How long do we put our lives on hold while they hit bottom and then,are we willing and capable to be the ones to pick them up off the floor and should we? It's an extremely personal decision.

Doing "tough love" with my Mom being an alcoholic was the only way she fought her way out knowing I would not be there ONLY AND UNTIL she sought help herself and made the decison to change her life.I could not do that for her.She had to want to turn her life around.

I am not a proponent of BS's being responsible for the WS coming out of their WS induced lives.They have to want to do it for themselves and realize what is at stake.They have to take necessary actions to show the BS that they are serious about what they claim.Actions.I am familiar with your lighthouse "theory" but it is also incumbent upon the WS to do what is necessary for reconciliation.That somewhere they start with is at home,themselves.

I don't believe anyone is vilifying Cy's WW.But,we are looking at her actions throught the lenses of experience.

*Let's be careful not to be swayed by the emotions that can cloud our judgment but yet be clear about what it is we want and need from those in our lives,especially at times like this.

O

Ok,deeeep breath.......

believer..

my point is that I am not sure that she capable of tried and true remorsefullness all at one time...

some people self destruct if they view all the horror they have laid in their wake...

sometimes it is small glimmers of letting some of it in and rolling it around on ones tongue to taste the bitterness and swallow a tiny piece...

again I am not saying she is anywhere near reconciling or facing her demons.......

nor am I encouraging cy to do anything.....

perhaps to watch and see...
and give credit where is due...

I don't disagree with anything you say...
except that people that for forever haven't done anything right....sometimes really don't know what is right...and they do need people to show them again.......


and I pray that those people always have someone to encourage the continuation of the journey they MAY be tipping their toe in.........

I say judge the actions...
but attempt to see some if any good in those that warrant it........

and disparage the rest as they should be.........

WS surround themselves with people that offer no objective moral compass...

you say

I am not a proponent of BS's being responsible for the WS coming out of their WS induced lives.

and I think I say as being Christ like on this earth perhaps that is what we are all called to do....

sheesh I don't know....

ARK

Miss ark,

why do you keep calling me believer? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Cy's WW may not be capable of remorse yet.True.But how long should he wait for that to come,if ever? I have seen time and time again some people that do realize what their mistakes are and they turn their lives around.It may come in dribs and drabs or a full blown clarity.What I am suggesting: that it is the choice of the BS to decide for themsleves,given what they have been through,to choose if and when to give the time and effort to seeing if the WS's actions and claims are genuine.It is a lot to ask,IMO,for this,what I call,gift of chance after something so dreadful as adultery.

Sometimes it all comes years later when the BS is long gone.That is a sad reality.I agree Cy is the only one who can decide if and how long he will wait to see if his WW's actions support any amount of recovery desire.So far,I have not seen anything legitimate,IMO although I cannot know for certain as I am not Cy nor do I know he and his WW personally.It's purely conjecture at this stage.



In essence I agree however,there comes a time to be an adult and take charge of your own life lest you continue to make the same mistakes.Cy has shown his WW how she can return to a possible reconciliation.We all do that with our PBLs' right? It's still a waiting game now.But we have also seen the dishonesty even if a PBL is sent and other actions not conducive to R.



"Christ like" can have several meanings to every individual.I am not sure what you mean by that but for me,I believe that upholding truth and respect and being caring but not accepting bad behavior repeatedly and living a life close to God is my partial interpretation.Choosing to live a life of dishonesty and deceit,selfishness and carelssness as in a WS 's actions is not being Christ like.Seeking out God and His help is.



It's all good ark! This is good to talk about.Get's the wheels spinning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

O

OH CRAP!!!!!!!!!

I am soooooo sorry.........sheeesh...begging forgivenss...

did I do it on last nights post also..
what an idiot...

sorry sorry sorry...
but the good news is there is nothing wrong with being called believer.......

anywho.....
OCTOBERGIRL...which is my fav month as in birthday month...

I am not saying he should seek reconcilliation or not move on the path he is...
but perhaps respond in kind to the attempts...

point direction is how they SERVE her well to begin to view her actions diffently than she has cocooned herself in to seeing them...............

OCTOBERGIRL SAID.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Choosing to live a life of dishonesty and deceit,selfishness and carelssness as in a WS 's actions is not being Christ like.Seeking out God and His help is.



I agree with that...so when they show small tiny attempts who is there to validate them?

surely not those that believe in if it feels good...just do it....

In my opinion that is Christ like..to validate the good...
and validating doesnt' mean forgiving or accepting..it means modeling and giving credit........

AA is the organization that never turns it back on anyone...no matter the vile acts the disease has created in them and of them...
it's alway there....
patiently waiting....

I am not saying his wife has done anything remarkable but perhaps she is like the Grinch.....


he stood in the snow with his feet freezing for a long long time.....


and he processed it little by little...

ARK

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> LUV IT!

Arkie is getting old!

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

this is pretty key for me ... because you and I have discussed your wife's mental illness a little bit, off and on.

... and you realize that her "state of mind" is very , very mobile (for lack of a better word)

her stability and reliability may never reach the level of where she can be depended upon to make choices that will be benificial to the marriage ... I just don't know if she is capable due to her illness ...

she will likely continue to show weaknesses in decision-making whenever her illness becomes less manageable ...

and it does not mean you cannot love her and reconcile with her ... you can <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ... but I think you need to be very real with yourself about her inate capabilities and lack of ability in certain areas of her personality

I really don't mind being confused with Lady B so no worries there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> October is my favorite month too.

Ok so if Cy responds to the(feeble) attempts his WW has made,how should he proceed? Like Doc Lem said,his WW has not made any claims to want to reconcile only that she wanted things to go back to the way they were (IMO only because she wants to time travel back to before her problems existed hence not taking responibility for her actions),he also said that the e-mails represented a lack of respect for him,doesn't know for sure if the OM received the NC letter or that she blocked her e-mail address form him or other's,and they are continuing on with the D mediation without any mention of the WW saying "Stop this D,I want to work this out or anything similar,at least I have not seen Cy mention that as of yet.

Too many negatives working here to say,ok,there is a glimmer of hope to take hold of,at least for me.Small attempts I think many of us can spot but also we can spot feeble attempts that are not true in nature,that is my feeling thus far.I could be proven wrong,who knows?



I agree but,giving credit where credit is due is my mantra.So far I don't see much to be worked up about.Maybe on a very superficial layer we could say,yeah,this is great,Cy finally got his NC letter but too many Q's remain unanswered related to that( as stated above).



Agreed and I witnessed this firsthand with my Mom and me being in Al-Anon.However,a good portion of the recovery of these people is a desire to want to help themselves get better and stick with the plans to that path.AA does not go "hunting" for members but rather they do wait pateintly for the discovery of those individuals of realizing they need help.But there also has to be growth and an undertanding that you do take responsibility for your actions and adultery has yet to be declared a "disease",to my knowledge.

It may very well be that his WW grows without Cy.Who knows but what it comes down to for me,is a personal decision with which way you want your life to go.That is not dependent upon anyone but yourself,IMO.If I had waited another 6-10 months for my WH to "get it" or hit bottom or whatever,I would be in terribly bad shape now.I know it.I was dying a slow painful death waiting for my WH to do anything that meant he cared for me,fog or not.I had to make decisions based on what was happening to ME.Not on what was happening to *WH.That is the difference.

Plus,the Grinch wasn't married.LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

O

P.S. I am definitely NOT an enabler.

10Girl,Ark, Pep and Susan,

Sorry about not acknowleging your posts sooner but I have had a couple of very trying days. I was going to write a long response to what appears to be the main point of contention but at this last moment I decided to just post an email just received from WW


///Dear Cymanca,

Got a call from my lawyer. Guess we have a meeting set for Dec. 5th. I hope this isn't going to be a waste of yours and my time. I know you started on an email to me a few days ago. I hope you don't think my intention was to place blame on you. I'm not...............and never will!!!! I know I can't say this enough, but I'm truly sorry for everything.

C

PS Enjoy Thanksgiving with your family!!!!!

Hi, Cyman.

Quoting Cyman's wayward wife:
===============================================
///Dear Cymanca,

Got a call from my lawyer. Guess we have a meeting set for Dec. 5th. I hope this isn't going to be a waste of yours and my time. I know you started on an email to me a few days ago. I hope you don't think my intention was to place blame on you. I'm not...............and never will!!!! I know I can't say this enough, but I'm truly sorry for everything.

C

PS Enjoy Thanksgiving with your family!!!!!
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I know you want honest opinions, so here are a couple of translations for you.

First off, here is what I think you want to hear;

"Dear Cyman.

I am so sorry for all the hurt and suffering I have caused you. The things I have done are wrong. I can never provide appropriate restitution for my actions. Please forgive me and consider taking me back. I promise that I will never do those hurtful things again."

Here is what I think she is really saying;

"Dear Cyman.

I am really sorry for everything. Let's just be friends and make this difficult time easier for me to get through. Please don't be mad at me."


I am sorry for your pain, Cyman. I pray that God will bless you with clear choices and peace in the choices you make.

Gimble

Cy,

My WH has been saying the same exact lines to me since DDay,e.g: "I am truly sorry for everything". But you know what? It didn't have one shred of meaning to me because his actions NEVER backed up his words.Yes he claims he was sorry but went right about doing the same old things all along,even just the past few months.

If he was truly sorry he wouldn't have kept doing those painful things to me.It's more about being sorry that he caused all this pain but that it was worth it since he didn't choose to make it stop.I was still as I was back in 10/03-not worth fighting for so why would I want him back? I don't.

Anyway,I wouldn't personally read more into the e-mail than is there.See how the mediation goes.

Also:
I hope all goes as well as can be expected for this Cy and you have a safe flight,whenever that is.Prayers to your family~

O

You were all correct. It was a sham to get the money.

That really bites, Cymanca.

You know what to do now.

Oh man. I'm really sorry to hear that. She was just playing you. In some ways that makes it all easier for you I guess?

God Bless you.

Cy,

I am sorry. R u sure? Boy even when it sure does look that way......when it is confirmed, it still hurts.

Hugz,
L.

Boy I am sorry too. I am more sorry for her though. How awful to go through life never knowing what it is like to truly love, or to know the joy of putting someone else above yourself.

What I wish for you is to be done with this and to find yourself in the loving arms of a really good woman. I know you are going to have that and that your pain is almost over now. It would have been nice if God's grace would have found her...but I guess that was not the plan right now.

You've done your time now Cy.

Cymanca's request... 11-15


WW email... 11-16

Cymanca, I don't know your whole situation. I have only began to read this thread. Anything prior to that...I have no idea.

But could this be the answer to your prayer?

My sympathies to you.

Lady

Good luck with your mediations.

Hopefully sometime soon after the mediations the WW will have an epiphany <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> and wake up to what she's doing / going to loose.

Perhaps then she may become willing to work on restoration or your M.

Until then protect yourself. She is becoming increasingly desperate.

I'm sorry Cy.

Regardless,I hope you are able to enjoy the Thanksgiving holiday with your family and find some peace.You so deserve it.

Take care~

O

Hey Cy,

Howzit?

Hugz,
L.

Cy...I am really sorry that it turned out this way...the prayer for clear direction was answered, but not in the way that you might have hoped...it is still very hurtful even though it gives you a clear path to proceed...no regrets, Cy, buddy. You have done so much good towards your marriage, yourself and MB..I am grieving with you, but when you are ready, hold your head up high.

Try to have a pleasant holiday with your family...seek their comfort and take care of yourself. ss

Cy,

I am so sorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Happy Thanksgiving, CY!

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Happy Thanksgiving to all my friends at MB

Hi, Cyman.

Quote:
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You believe easily what you hope for ernestly.
=============================

Self-inflicted blindness is the bane of humanity.

Happy thanksgiving, Cy.

God bless,
Gimble

Sometimes a sad truth.

I think that we should be thankful that our hearts are still tender.
Still worthy of protecting.


...sending you a gentle and warm shield of protection...
and thanksgiving


think about the word
thanksgiving

its is lovely, don't you think?

[color:"purple"]I think that we should be thankful that our hearts are still tender.
[/color]

thank you for such a lovely remark