Yes, yes, their choices are made within a context of their surroundings. Just as you are exploited in work for your mind or strong back, so are women in porn exploited for their assets. We all have to make choices about our employment.

Stating that women are incapable of making money outside of porn, that the only thing that women can do in our society is modeling or sex trade is extremely demeaning to women. It is exactly this kind of paternalistic attitude, this kind of “oh-my--the-women-must-be-protected” attitude that has kept women down. It is offensive to all women who have achieved great strides in all areas of employment.

If a guy would want to star in a porn film, would you complain that he would have no other choice because of a “context”? No, you’d say: that’s his choice. Maybe you would even blame him for contributing to the smut which you dislike so much. So why do you think that women are some pathetic creatures who cannot take care of their employment? Why the double standard? Why are you so sexist?

(BTW, your note that women make as much money in porn as men is totally off base. Supposedly a good actress in porn makes 50 times the amount of a good actor. Guess why.)

If a woman enters the porn business, than that’s her choice. Who are you to criticize her choice of employment? Who are you to treat her as a second class citizen?

Very good average.....but why stop there why support porn when you clearly state that you see it (at least in some way ) demeans women???

I find it interesting that they asked a man to create a anti discrimination policy. (were any women aware that the person creating policies that effect them secretly reads porn??? How do you think that would make them feel. Personally I dont want any guy who thinks about women this way creating policies affecting the lives of me, my daughters or women I know....


What have I done......Well

Im a woman with 4 children (2 boys 2 girls,) I raise them all according to good honest values of equality and respect for all humanity...
I work outside the home teaching...In this I try to instill the same values of equity and respect for diversity , (whether this be gender, race, ability, sexual preference.
I support the right of women everywhere to make the choice of working either in the home or outside of it.

I have completed 7 years of study at university to better educate myself in the areas of education, gender equity and Indigineous issues. (and yes I have studies the topic of porn quite extensively)

I have made one television appearance here in Aus to talk about the some aspects of our legal system negatively impacting the lives of women in situations of domestic violence.

BUT more important than any of this is that I am prepared to challenge some of the many issues still affecting women around the world...

You see the difference between you and I is that your views support maintaining the status quo, mine support change.Change to our attitudes, change to our behaviours. This is sure to rock the boats of those who have throughout history enjoyed the many advantages of the current system....in this case white middle class men

PS have you asked your wife in what way she feel porn enriches her marriage to you

and are you comfortable for
a) your daughters to appear in these mags (if they choice )

b) for them to know you indulge in this rubbish????

I notice these are questions you have not as yet addressed

What are you talking about? What problem? If a viewer watches a film, the viewer wants to see nice actors and actresses. The viewer is NOT interested in some sort of a diversity. The viewer is interested in idealism. That’s what fantasy films are about, be they James Bond films, TV soap operas, or porn.

Films are NOT accurate representation of reality. They are NOT supposed to be. What would be the point? People live in a reality. They mentally escape into the world of make belief. If film would be just a true representation of reality, the viewer would say: hey this is completely as reality, so I don’t really need to watch it.

Out of curiosity, would you be happy if your husband viewed porn where there are women of all shapes, colors and sizes? Or would you be just as upset as if he viewed porn where there are only the “ideal” women?

What “anti-discrimination” policy? It was a sexual harassment policy. There is a big difference. Really. Ask your favorite attorney or human resources person.

And there was no “they”. Read my post again. "THEY" did not ask me to create sexual harassment policy. I was the one who asked that it be prepared. Other people wrote it and implemented it. I simply ordered it, devoted sufficient resources to it, and oversaw that it be carried out within legal guidelines and appropriate regulations.

Any moron can prepare such a policy. But it is a person who really believes in women’s rights that pro-actively seeks to institute such a policy.

You still don’t get it, do you? Don’t you understand how strong a man’s sex drive can be? Don’t you read the posts on MB? Have you not learned anything?

Look, men in general have a stronger sexual drive then women. Their need for sexual satisfaction is stronger then women’s. Deal with it.

Men do NOT see porn as dishonest or unfaithful. They see it as healthy release. They use porn for the same type of emotional satisfaction as women who read romantic novels or watch soap operas.

If a guy wants sex 5x per week and she 2x, then what do you suggest? That she submit to him, and serve him even if she does not want to? Yeah, that’ll work. Forcing a woman to sex will do wonders for their marriage, right?

Or that he just be a big boy, and suppress his sexual urges until she is ready? Yeah, that’ll work. Having a sexually unfulfilled and sexually frustrated man will do wonders for their marriage, right?

Or that he simply takes a matter into his own hands, and have his sexual tension released within 10 minutes a go on with his life instead of being preoccupied with sex until he can get some from his W.

If there is difference in sexual drive, then porn is actually VERY beneficial. What else do you suggest? I am really curious!

Average Guy,


First off, I would suggest you find out why you are unable to please your wife enough for her to want to make love to you more often.

Secondly, you challenged me earlier, I responded and you tucked your tail between your legs and started attacking the women. Are you not up for the three month challenge that I presented for you? Are you afraid that you would have to come back here and say that I was right?

Leave the ladies alone who are in pain and hurting over what Pornography has done to their lives. Does it really make you feel better to bash them and make their pain worse with your ignorant banter? Because that is all you are really doing. Do you speak that way to your wife as well when you disagree with her?

Oh, I know what she would say. I’ve asked her when the subject first came up.

If she’d ask me not to use porn, then she’d have a choice to make. She either have to drastically increase the amount of sex with me, (say, from 2 to 5/week), or she’d have a very lusty, horny and sexually frustrated guy on her hands who could not do anything except think about sex. Neither is a good prospect for a wonderful marriage.

And even if she did want to increase the amount of sex with me, I just could not force her to do that to herself. I’d loose all respect for myself. What kind of a guy would have sex with a wife if she does not get anything out of it? She would then be no more than a masturbation aid. It would simply churn my stomach.

My W fully supports me using it. And yes, she is a feminist, and she understands my sex drive. It indeed is very beneficial for our relationship.

Average WHAT ARE you talking about . I NEVER said that this was all these women could do???or made any sexist comments . If you care to read the post. What I said is That these professions ar the only ones in which womens earning equal or better mens (on average) Hopefully you understand statistics


'Any moron can prepare such a policy. But it is a person who really believes in women’s rights that pro-actively seeks to institute such a policy'

Yes I must say I am now convinced any moron could but why would one such moraon care if they then go home to watch porn . That is the question???

'You still don’t get it, do you? Don’t you understand how strong a man’s sex drive can be? Don’t you read the posts on MB? Have you not learned anything?'

No its obviously you who doesnt realise how strong a womans sex drive can be when she is with a real man....a man who is not sleazily reading his porn....


Ohhhhhh, I get it , of course how could YOU possibly have ever had this opportunity????

We’ve been through this once already. You cannot seem to understand the basic premise of my question: we have different sexual drives! This is totally consistent with the teachings on this site. What is it that you don’t get?

It would be great if we had the same sex drive. It would be great if we can find the time to the extra 3 sessions a week. But we live in a real world with different needs, with time limitations, with schedules to keep.

There is nothing wrong with having a lower sex drive. I fully support her. I will NOT try to force her to have sex with me, because you think that I am doing something wrong, or because you think that there is something wrong with her. Why can’t you just accept it that different people have different sexual needs?

I ask you, MoG, once again: if you forbid porn to a guy who has a higher sexual drive then she does, does she have to submit to him, or does he have simply be sexually frustrated?

ManofGod Thankyou for defending those of us who have been hurt by pornography...you are a true gentleman and your wife is one lucky woman.
(Incidently my husband has been reading this thread and whilst he is appauled by averages comments saying they remind him of his old porn fog he says you are an inspiration)

'And even if she did want to increase the amount of sex with me, I just could not force her to do that to herself. I’d loose all respect for myself. What kind of a guy would have sex with a wife if she does not get anything out of it? She would then be no more than a masturbation aid. It would simply churn my stomach'

So long as you wife is happy for you to use other women as your masterbation aid then I gues you have no problem......YET

Sorry that I don’t respond to all your questions, all your challenges.

I simply do not understand your challenge. Are you saying that I could or that I could NOT use porn for 3 months? Are you saying that you want to prove that I can be weaned from porn and that I don’t need porn, or that I am addicted to porn?

What would you be right about?

Once again Average you support porn on the premise of your arguement that 'men have higher sex drives.....how the ****** do you know what my sex drive is, or every other woman. (Oh sorry I forgot your the expert, drawing up sexual harassment policies and all. )

It does not suprise me that every woman YOU have been with has a lower sex drive than you, afterall I would too given your extracurricular activities. Your wife happiness at your consistent fantaising about other women may suggest insecurity issues but it seems like you are in control enough for the both of you anyway. Its kind of sad that you have convinved her porn is necessary for you masterbation....Here in Aus we have a name for people who do what you do. But rather than label you this name I think I will once again for the final time excuse myself from addressing you. Whilst at one point I re entered it thinking we may have some intellegent dialogue I have come to realise that people like you and I are on a different wavelengths...Only one thing has become clear to me, when you defend porn and talk about your wife liking it, and the way you speak to me and about other women....That regardless of what you say

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR ANY WOMAN WHATSOEVER

Oooh, so it has come to this, eh? Challenging my manhood? Telling me that I am not a real man because I don’t or can’t satisfy my W? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, all is fair in love and war, and now internet postings.

Look, letmejustsay, for all your postings about diversity, you certainly do not celebrate diversity in sexual drive. Everyone should have equal emotional needs, right? And if the guy’s need is different than woman’s than there must be something wrong with either her, or with his technique, right?

The fact that man’s sexual needs are stronger than woman’s is actually pretty well accepted. As a matter of fact, you may want to read the introduction to the marriagebuilders web site. If you think that it is not, you may want to write to Dr. Harley, and set him straight.

No matter how unfair it seems, no matter how it fails to conform with your naïve idealistic world of how things should be, you have to address the fact that on average, men simply have stronger sexual drive then women. Deal with it.

I don't use other women. I simply use images of other women. Yes there is a difference.

And yes, there is no problem. Just like with the vast majority of guys who use porn. Never was, and never will be.

Nice corresponding with you, I gotta go, ....

I do not challenge your manhood Average (you are most surely male) only your integrity and attractiveness as a sexual partner for any educated woman. But take care I think you and I best end this conversation.....Ill even let you have the last word...despite the fact that according to your stereotypical view of men and women that should be my perogotive lol

LMJS signing off for a couple of stiff drinks and a hot night with my 'now non porn viewing h'....XXXX

Average Guy,

A man's sex drive (as you call it) is NOT much stronger than a woman's.

Dr. Harley says that generally a man has a "much greater need for sex", meaning that men seem to want sex more often. He even clearly says that it is sometimes the woman. If you've ever read any of his books, you'd also understand he goes into HOW to help increase the other partner's interest in sexual fulfillment.

However, you FAIL to even understand or learn why there is a difference in sex drive. It is not genetics as you may think. It is generally, because the woman (or man) is NOT satisfied with their sex life. That the time to do it is NOT worth the emotional and physical dissatisfaction that s/he receives from it or that it doesn't meet his/her expectations of the encounter.

I guarentee that ANY and EVERY woman that I would have an intimate and loving relationship with would want to have sex with me everyday. This is not about being arrogant, this is about being knowledgable and aware of the WHYs.

You are completely ignorant about the "WHYs" of both "sexual drive" (as you call it) and pornography and it's impact on the mind.

My three month challenge was pretty detailed about what it would do for you. I really don't care if you take it or not, but you asked for something that could give you self-awareness and I did.

You really have a lot of nerve to try to tell me what was wrong with my marriage. What do you think makes you such an expert?? My H's pornography was a compulsion, an addiction, and it was way more than him doing something I didn't want him to do. It robbed our marriage of all intimacy because he was seeking emotional and sexual fulfillment with the porn. You are naive at best if you think this type of issue in a marriage can be described in the simple terms you used.

Goodness,

I do miss those days before computers and VCRs when pornography was something you downloaded on the hard drive of your brain!

Back around 1985 My husband received two Playboy magazines in a Christmas grab bag at work. He thought they were so racey he hid them on the top shelf of the closet so the kids wouldn't find them. We forgot they were still there until my 17 years old found them the other day.

Now the crap that comes over network television before 9 PM is sexier than those magazines.

It was on this forum that I first learned of pornography addictions. I heard first-hand from the women posters whose husbands had become addicted to pornography. One poor woman said her husband actually purchased a plastic vagina. She had to beg him to have sex with her.

What has changed and why? Is the pornography more interactive? Truly, how big is the problem? What are the statistics? Are there tens of thousands of men out there who use pornography with little or no adverse impact on their marriages?

We wives used to think the looks of the average centerfold or porn star as icing on a cardboard cake. If our husbands were going to look at two dimensional images of something they couldn't have, they cared about every little detail. But when our men were having real sex with a real woman those things were not important.

I think most men are practical. The wife they have is better than the woman they don't have. To be blunt, I always believed that it was not what I 'had' but how I displayed it--and what I said and did to make my husband lust after me. At age 53, this is still serving me well.

Walk down any street in America and look at the married women. How many are not up to some pornographic standard of beauty? About 99%? How many of husbands use pornography of some kind and to some extent? 80%? 50%? It would seem to me that if pornography addictions were culturally systemic, there would be a woman's revolt to make Prohibition look life child's play.