calling the harleys is the smartest thing...

and while I don't want a debate...just some clarification..
why alephion would you recomend plan B when no plan A has occured..??

I would recomend plan A for a period....

ARK

devastated...

your initial reactions and labile mood swings are soo typical that don't you dare give them a second thought....

any of the outbursts you may have done in the past....still don't make you one ounce responsible for his ACTIONS

has he ever said WHY he "believes" he has had the affairs...

does he say anything about you which is NOT ever ever the same as you being responsible...

in my opinion he is ripe for plan A...

while your outbursts are bad not for him but for you...cause they assist in justifying his Need to be elsewhere...plan A is all about eliminating those things and takes you from the line of fire

I will find my plan A post with some tips on it....

when he talks to you is he nice...pleasant...etc...

ARK

"At first, I gave him lots of attention and was extra sweet to him even though it killed me. After 1 month, I became resentful because he was wasn’t doing anything at the time to make amends. In fact, he became distant and mean towards me. He had the attitude of take it or leave it. I suggested MC and he refused. I gave him an ultimatum–stay but with NC with these women or out. He agreed to NC with these women and try to work things out. In July, I found out that he was still in contact with them so I threw him out. Since then I have exposed him to his family and his boss."

It may not be a 4.0 but all the major elements of Plan A seem to have been present. Perhaps more personal growth activities and fewer DJ's would have raised the gpa. But then who’s Plan A wouldn’t be better for that?

But then there is this noise:

"Eventually, over the next several months he confessed that he had several affairs during our 2 ½ years of marriage and during the 2 years we were dating."

Serial philanderer. Plan A is not going to work with a repeat and consistent adulterer this early in an M. At least not wrt the M. Only wrt BS personal recovery. Hence Plan B is not too soon for devastated’s personal recovery.

But then, what do I know? I just don’t want anyone to make the doormat mistakes I did. False recovery is certain, especially with a serial adulterer, otherwise.

Remember, Dr H has reduced the duration of Plan A by quite a bit from what was originally published in SAA, especially for women. Too much cake out there.

Hi, devastated. We're sort of in the same boat. My H left out of the blue when DD had just turned 7 months old. Here it hasn't even been 3 months, and we're in the middle of a bitter divorce battle. But I think you are stronger than me, since you threw him out when you discovered the A.

Take care of yourself and your sweet baby. Best of luck to you.

((((devastated))))

Ark^^

H said on different occasions that he believes he's had A’s because

- I wasn’t as loving as I was in the beginning and I didn’t get along with his family as well as he had liked me to
- maybe this was who he was and he inherited it from his grandfather who was a total womanizer - fell out of love with me
- got bored and everything became a routine
- doesn’t really know why

I don’t know what to believe. It seems like every time I ask him I get a different response.

When H speaks to me he is pleasant. I on the other hand, I’m cold and short. I don’t discuss anything besides the baby.

When he comes over some times he brings dinner for me because he says he worries whether I have eaten or not. H wanted to take me out to dinner for my birthday and I agreed. Well during dinner all we talked about was his A’s and he let me know that there was no hope for us on his behalf. But for the baby’s sake he wanted us to remain friends and go out as a family from time to time (he wants his cake and he wants to eat it to). The next day he called me to thank me for going to dinner and that he enjoyed himself but that he wished the conversations would have been much more pleasant. I find it extremely difficult to talk about anything else besides his A’s.

((SadMommy))

I’m sorry to hear that you are now in the process of D.

I have no advice to give you but just wanted to tell you that time does heal wounds. This may seem unbearable at the moment but I believe that God has a better plan for us. We don’t seem to understand it now and we can’t comprehend why of all people is this happening to us but I hope that one day we can look back and think about all this and say that it did happen for the best.

I don’t think that I am stronger than you. I was miserable all the while he was there. Every time he walked out the door, I got nervous. When I was in the shower, I would think is he on the phone with OWs right now? Sitting down watching tv or having dinner I would think is he thinking about OWs? It just got to the point where I was miserable with him so I figured I might as well be miserable without him and besides my baby needed a stress free, peaceful home–I owed him that much.

I’ll be praying for you and your sweet bundle of joy. Take care.

devastated...

I think the time is at hand for you to get your husbands attention with a whisper.......and plan and prepare for plan B......

What your husband is seeking is an empty lonely road...and while it is infuriating it is without honor or blessings...

and you stand there blessed with beautiful child surrounded by love in your family and friends......and the power to be stronger than you even know...

your husband is very lost...seeking a life without honor and only empty empty pursuit...and soon even those he pursues will tire of his shallowness...

he is even more pitiful than those that cling to one other OP and seek happiness externally...

he will know no true peace....

time to shout your whispers to him....

time to get his peripheral attention...and concern yourself with very little of his empty words...

time to meet him with a smile
time to fill your home with soft musics and lights..
time to create your home as the oasis that it is...

time to show him hope without succumbing to his own insanity...

speak softly to him..
let him come in to the home and catch you in the act of celebrating that baby and life...without him....

when he comes in be dancing in the kitchen with the baby....

when he comes in have some favorite treat of his on the counter....cookies brownies...offer him NONE but if he asks....offer them graciously....

time to put some things around the house that get his attention....and make no comment on them...

travel brochures...
phone books sitting out...

offer no information....

when he asks you if are taking care of yourself...
tell him you feel fine...and ironically you worry about his ability to sleep well at night...and batt your eyes at him...

NO MORE affair talk....not a peep from you...

time to press him for times to watch the baby in your home with NO information on where you are going or have planned...

time to find leaflets from local universities or museums on special happenings...wine tasting etc...

and time to see if you can invite him to atten a family function....
a trip to look at holiday lights....
a meeting at stores to show the babies the lights....
meet and then leave him with hints of a fabulous party you are attending and must leave to go to...

leave him wondering
leave him thinking...
leave him with only a shadow of what can be....

game playing..
smacks of it....I know....

BUT he surrounds himself with people that don't villify his actions.....AND are as shallow as him...

there is NO value or honor in any woman that is willing to spend time with him...so all he knows is people that he can not respect....

when you shun him you play in to this thought pattern...which is NOT to say you accept any thing he does...it means that you detach from it.......

when you ask him about the affairs....
it gives him comfortable ground and he quickly reverts in to being a victim...a cad is a cad is a cad is a cad....
and that is enough justification in his mind...to be the victim...

don't villify him...

tell him things like babies first words are usually da da and wonder outloud if this will hold true for you...

all the while preparing for plan B where you remove yourself from his chaos totally.....

here is the lighthouse post.....

arks lighthouse post

ARK

As usual Ark is a genius this does work. Just do it. - I did it and it worked. H became very worried and thought I was involved or meeting someone else.

Ark^^

I have read your posts on plan a and the lighthouse. I think I got plan A. It's going to be very very hard for me to do because it's not in my nature to just give, give and give some more without a positive response. I know how to make a bad situation worse never better.

So I should go out to dinner with H and baby
I should invite H in for Christmas morning
I should let him come to baby’s doctor’s appointment
I should let him take care of the baby in my home when I go out...and don’t let him know where I’m going
Etc.

H has asked to do all these things and I’ve said NO before.

But all the while how do I protect my heart and prevent myself from being swept into the moment.

- I wasn’t as loving as I was in the beginning and I didn’t get along with his family as well as he had liked me to

Your fault.

- maybe this was who he was and he inherited it from his grandfather who was a total womanizer - fell out of love with me

Nobody's fault.

- got bored and everything became a routine

Nobody's fault.

- doesn’t really know why

Nobody's fault.

"Culprits abound, except in the mirror" -WAT

GC

It's going to be very very hard for me to do because it's not in my nature to just give, give and give some more without a positive response.

yeah well you and everyone else except God.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's exactly why I implore people NOT to enter plan without a set date of going to plan B....

people often get frustrated and give up in plan a because they say their is doing nothing...

well ofcourse they are doing nothing they haven't commited to marrieage rebuilding...plan a is not rebuilding...plan a is negotiating with a terrorist the release of a good person gone bad...

it is a lot of keeping communication open....

So I should go out to dinner with H and baby

no I don't think so...
that's what he wants....that helps normalize it...for him...
but do invite him to meet you somewhere..mall for a few hours....look marvelous....buy him a hot chocolate..etc...THEN leave him...cause you are off for something....infact say ooh watch the baby for a minute...and come back with a package from a lingere store...(victoria secrets)

SEE I'm not sure this is harley advice...so I feel uncomfortable a little with...

but I am sure that it a glimpse in to the reality of his choices...and just like the fantasy of having your freedom and all these other woman ....is totally different from the reality that he will end up with shallow people....

so is his belief that he can abandon you and the baby...AND you will always just be there doing what he expects never moving on.....

I am not advocating you seeing/dating..

I am advocating planting the seeds of that reality while maintaining total innocence....


I should invite H in for Christmas morning

take some time with this one..perhaps see how things go...
you may want to do a little baby dad thing the day before/after..but he may need to be alone xmas...istn't that what he wants...

I should let him take care of the baby in my home when I go out...and don’t let him know where I’m going
ABSOLUTELY
be happy to see him...
but even happier to be going OUT...
be a little flirty then scoot out the door....

hide your history on your computer.....if you think he could trace you here...

But all the while how do I protect my heart and prevent myself from being swept into the moment.

make the moments short..
you be in as much control as you can...

be aloof but very very nice...
sing under your breathe...

you once wooed this guy do it again...

but with protection and from a distance...

you got to feel your own strength..that even if he chooses to stay on his path of using people that you will be BETTER without that than with...

what is the exposure rate...does his family know about his wanting to date...
what do they say..
do they see the baby....
do they see you or him...

consider also a dinner party with friends that normally he would there with....
and let him by letting it slip that so and so are coming over next _______________
but don't invite him
leave him out there....

It's going to be very very hard for me to do because it's not in my nature to just give, give and give some more without a positive response

this is your gift in this chaos...learning to give without a positive response is an exercise of mastering that will serve you well throughout your life no matter who is by your side....

finding the joy in the giving NOT in the response...

it is actually learning to tell someone you love them...and not needing to hear I love you to.....(I am not telling you to say THAT...it's just an example.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)

learn to give in small doses....
and prepare before you are doing it...

prepare by saying..

that I am going to do this or say that...and I expect nothing from him..

no response
nothing...
but I am going to do it or say it anyways...

learn to focus on the act from you....and NOT the response from him....

ARK

Wow, this is definitely a lot harder than I thought. I have to go from being the cold person I became to being the sweetest person yet. It’s going to take time for me to get there because he’s going to think I totally lost it if I suddenly become happy go lucky. He doesn’t expect me to be nice just civil.

I want to do a good plan a so I’m going to do as you suggested. When H comes over to visit with DS I usually disappear into another room, rarely coming out. Do I know sit down with him, have a brief conversation, flirt, get on the phone with a “supposed friend” and then leave the room til it’s time for him to leave? Forgive me for all the questions, but I’m usually a straight up person and not used to playing these games.

what is the exposure rate...does his family know about his wanting to date

When I exposed H, I told it like it was. I told anyone and everyone who would listen that he wanted to be single and date several women at the same time. His mom was extremely upset but when she saw that he was withdrawing from her she stopped making waves for fear of driving him away. When I finially threw him out and told the rest of his family they stopped all communications with me because they didn’t agree with what I did and they felt that I was too upset with H that I didn’t want to deal with them either. His siblings were just as upset and confronted him but he told them that he no longer loved me and was not willing to work it out. They left it alone if I know them well they thought that he’s a grown man and they shouldn’t tell him what to do. They are not the kind of people that would keep giving him advice as to what to do. They spoke to him for first week or so and then left it alone.

They only saw DS when he was born and after that he have never attempted to except for H parents which are flying in for the holidays and have requested through H to see DS. Blood IS thicker than water.

do they see you or him—

his whole family sees him

bumped for ark^^

It’s going to take time for me to get there because he’s going to think I totally lost it if I suddenly become happy go lucky.

hmmmm....
I wonder if that would get his attention...

no you are right...better to stay cordial but stand offish...
better to be short and absent with your interactions because that really gets his attention when you act so uninterested in him....

yeah...keep doing the same things....that way he'll continue on the path that he knows what you are up to and thinking....

OR
you might be different ...and maybe it will peak his interest and maybe he will wonder what the heck you are sooo happy about...

you might want to consider on a upcoming visit to wait till he comes over and say you are sorry but you have to cut this visit short...cause you have been invited out somewhere...and you can't be late.....

and do just that....

why do you leave the room?

ARK^^

you might be different ...and maybe it will peak his interest and maybe he will wonder what the heck you are sooo happy about

I see......Thanks for pointing that out.


you might want to consider on a upcoming visit to wait till he comes over and say you are sorry but you have to cut this visit short...cause you have been invited out somewhere...and you can't be late.....

H came over Thanksgiving afternoon. I was baking one of his favorite goodies when he walked in and asked if i was taking it over to my relatives house and i said no--which of course i was. Had my friend call me so that he could overhear me making plans to visit a "friend" and bring them the baked goods. I got all made up and told him that i had to cut his visit short because i had plans and was running late and left.


why do you leave the room?
Because it killed me to see him there acting like nothing had happeend. All he wanted to do was make small talk and that drove me nuts. I would disappear into my room so that i wouldn't have to face him.

what was his reaction if any ?

take control of the small talk..

ask about places you visited together...
and say you were just telling someone the other day about this or that there....

get some travel brochures and leave them out..
cruises...all inclusive etc..

ARK

what was his reaction if any ?

H didn't seem bothered. He called me on my cell phone 6 hours later and left a message that the temperature had dropped and that DS wasn't wearing the proper clothing since it was warm when we left.

Hmmm...either he was really concerned about DS or H was calling to find out where we were? H usually calls everyday or every other day to ask about DS and i haven't heard from him since....

As a matter of fact, I will try to get the travel brochures this week and leave them lying around and i'll ask him about some of the places we've visited abroad

Is this really all worth it? Plan Aing-- I mean.

Today is just one of those days when i just feel like giving up on my M. I hate my H for putting us/me through this. I can't seem to get over the betrayal, lies, deceit, and knowing that he slept with OWs. How can H be so selfish and cruel to put your pregnant W through this without a glimpse of remorse?

I'm starting to think that maybe my M is not worth saving. I would hate to try to save this marriage only to have it happen again or worse yet eventually wind up hating myself.

I mean what kind of person would go without days (5) without calling to see how your DS is? To abandon your new family without a second thought? Is this really the kind of H i want back? The H i thought i had would've never done such a thing. The H i thought i had was sweet, caring, loving and thoughtful of other's feeling. Told me was ready to finally settle down, was looking forward to starting a family, was family oriented, went to church on Sundays, etc... Where is he? Maybe he never was and this is the real HIM.

Ughhhh....Sorry just feeling down.

DNM, you have a normal, legitimate feeling. Which is the real H, you wonder. Is it (A) the one you like, or is it (B) this creeper? That's just the choice that lies before him.

You're not obligated to try and hold this thing together. You have a chance to help him if he decides (A), but whether you take that risk is entirely up to you. If he decides (B), you can't do anything for him.

How long have you been in plan A again?

GC

GC

I just started plan A on the 24th but haven't had the chance to really get into it because i haven't had contact with H since.

I don't know for how long i should do plan a being that i only see H once or twice a week?