RP,

U have posted for a while. Without hindering your W's posts, how do you think we can help?

L.

Margie,

Just wanted to say that the fact that you are here speaks volumes. I understand the desire to run. As a FWW, I have had to fight it the urge many times. And when I first found this web site, I avoided it like the plague. I was looking for excuses to get out of my marriage, not ways to fall back in love with my husband (yuck!).

But the people here are very wise. They will give you great advices. Some of it won't make sense to you at first. Some of it will seem downright nutty. And other times, you will wonder how on earth they knew certain things -- as if they could actually see inside your soul. Be open to it all. And try to stay open to your husband.

You are in mourning right now for the OM. Give yourself some time to catch your breath. But try to remain open to you husband. That's what I did, and things are pretty good now. (yum!!)

You are not alone.

-SC

Margie,

I hope you didn't run away. If you did, please come back.
We care about you and so does your H.

Lady

Orchid - Good question. I'll try to answer without hindering Margie's post. IMHO, the people here can help in the following ways;

1 General support.
2 Show reasons to believe reconciliation is worthwhile and possible.
3 Give examples of how during recovery the feelings followed action and not the other way around.
4 Give advice on how to move from intellectualizing the MB principles to internalizing the MB principles.

Hope that helps.

Ok, will try. A suggestion? Please consider counseling with Jennifer @ MB (if you haven't done so already). Can't remember if u r or not.

L.

Was away on business. Still trying to make a decision on what to do. My heart hurts for what I have done to my H, but I still can't say out loud that I want to work on my M. I feel like I need to work on myself first. Right now, I can't stay in my home without wanting to jump out of skin.

We have lived seperate lives for so many years (long before the A) and that had become comfortable. I'm just not sure that I want to go forward together.

Not having contact with OM, but very sad and alone. Still want to just run away. I have thoughts about it all the time, but can't just run out and leave a note.

Well, as you've already read here, you're going to feel real crappy whether you stay or go.

My advice is to give it 3 months. That way, you can look back without regrets. Otherwise, for the rest of your life, you will always wonder.

It is so difficult to want to stay and feel crappy. I had lunch with my H today and we talked. I know that I have shut the door in his face, but I can't seem to want to open it again. He has asked me if my mind is made up and I have always said no, but sometime I wonder if I just don't want to admit to myself that I have made up my mind and I don't want to work things out.

Margie;

Years ago you walked down that aisle completely in love with that man you married...RPrynne. Would you not agree that he is a better man today than he was that day??? Please list out for us or yourself what you at least "like" about this new man you find yourself married to. Then think about the qualities you would look for in a man if you left and found yourself single??? OM's out of the picture I presume so what would you want in a new man/husband???

Would you not agree that a man that shared a common history with you, like RPrynne, would be a decent start???

Would you not agree that the changes you see in RPrynne are quite desirable in this mythical replacement man???

So why not start anew and see. You just recently went to No Contact for good when you started this thread just a few weeks ago. For better or worse (It was worse, but it's the past and you can't change it), you got your "closure" with OM. I know it sucks to start withdrawal and recovery all over again but at least you had some practice this fall. Take a few more months to see if your feelings will change. Life is short but it's not what you do with your life it is what you make of your life. "Make" peace with your husband and yourself and see what happens.

BTW, my wife broke "no contact" also in an attempt to get "closure". She was also met with harsh responses by OM which luckily assisted her seeing the relationship for what it was a little quicker. My wife's OM was not someone she would have ever dated if she were single (for example, if I had died two years ago she never would have dated him as he was a mixed up, living with his parents at 35 y/o making close to zero money and paying child support, a loser). She finally accepted and realized that she got from the relationship a feel good escape and the attention she would have preferred to get from me. She's getting it now. We've got our share of problems but the affair is no longer one of them.

The way I see it your choices are not - to be married or not. Your choice right now is whether to "try" or not and just by the fact you are willing to talk these things out here is a good indication to me that you are no quitter.

Good luck to both of you,

Mr. Wondering

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I know that I am somewhat depressed. I have been for many years. We lost a baby a few years ago in week 22. It was very difficult and my H and I were not on the same page with trying again or having children. So many things were said by both. It is so hard to forget that and move forward. My H is not a bad person, in fact he is wonderful. Some time earlier, however, I just shut him out and moved on. I'm trying to make myself want things to work out, but it is very very difficult.

Again thanks for the comments and suggestions. It does help.

Loss of a baby is a very high hurdle for a couple. Then, if it is followed by a lack of agreement on what to do and how to handle it can be devastating. I think you may have pinpointed a major turning point in your M. It meets with the timeframe of when you lost feelings for your H that you have said a few times. I think that is something that you and your H need to talk about again. Obviously (to me at least), it is an unresolved issue and one that needs to be revisited and worked through even after 3 years or so.

Margie, I am a FWH. I know what you are going through. Even though I am a H and you are a W, there are so many similarities. A few years ago, you started giving up on your H and looking elsewhere to have your EN's filled. You found it in this OM. The OM gave you the EN's (you said it was not about sex) and inside you began feeling or continued to feel that your H was unable to do what this OM did. I imagine that before the OM you found other things or people (maybe not A's in the strictest sense) that "met" those EN's also. Anyway, now is now and you have settled into your position that your H can no longer do this because you have coached yourself and "proved" to yourself that he can't. If you ignore everything in this post, just don't ignore this. For whatever EN's were not being met which lead to my vulnerability in having an A (note I did not say my W was in anyway responsible), my W was unaware. After I gave up that she was going to meet them, I turned towards my friends, playing basketball, coaching high school age soccer, etc... to meet these needs. I understand now that if my W KNEW that my EN's were not being met (and I don't know if I could have told her because I didn't know what was happening), then she would have been more than happy to have met them. I think your H is the same way now. From what I can tell, he is trying to understand your EN's. He sounds like he is the wonderful man you are describing but you are not giving him a chance. If he didn't know you had these EN's that were not being met, then how was he to meet them? That is what I finally came to understand about my W. In fact, my W asked me what five things she could do to show me she loved me and I couldn't think of but one. That is how unclear I am on what those EN's are that were not being met. You need to figure out what yours are and share them with him. Let me tell you, when he starts meeting those specific needs, you will begin to have feelings for him. He will deposit and deposit until your love bank is overflowing.

Withdrawal is a terrible time. All the FWS's on this board would agree. Don't worry, it will pass. Just maintain your NC stance. You can do it. Give your H a try at filling your love bank and meeting your EN's. He obviously wants to. Let him.

SNT

Margie, glad to see you still posting. I think Margie is a wonderful person too.

Margie,

Along the theme of other posts I would like to suggest that you need to change your perspective. I had the opportunity of meeting some old friends I have not seen in 30 years the other night. One of them reminded the other (who has 4 children) how he NEVER wanted to have children and we kidded him considerably. He admitted he did not, had told his W he did not, but as life unfolded his perspective changed and...lo and behold he is the father of 4 facing the empty nest.

I think your perspective is also wrong. I think you first need to consider that your H could be your friend and try being his friend and allowing him to be yours. I think that if this works, you might consider IF you would like to be in a committed relationship (yes perhaps a committed and happy marriage). If that seems something to explore, then explore committing to your H, not for life, but for a year. What would that commitment be? Isn't that the huge question?

I would suggest that the commitment be that you "love" your H as in the verb NOT the feelings, and he "love" you as in the commitment. At a year you two could evaluate and see how this "love" thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> is working. Are you starting to be happy with one another, not delirious as yet, but happy, friendly, comfortable, open.

Now one thing you would have to do is decide on what "love" means to you in the context of a verb. It would probably mean taking good care of YOURSELF (odd isn't it) that might entail anti-depressants, exercise, good nutrition. He would do the same. It would entail being a good friend and supporting one another in their activities. It would entail recreation together. It could and can be many things.

But, one thing it MUST include is admitting that your spouse is human. He will fail as you do and did. He must admit the same for you. You see Margie the most amazing thing about people is what they DO accomplish inspite of all of their flaws. Once you can see your H's strengths and good points amongst his many flaws you can love. The same goes for him.

Right now you are depressed. You two have suffered the loss of a child via miscarriage. You and he will NOT feel that loss in the same way any more than he could feel your pain during delivery. Accept that you two are different and see, if that door you shut will not swing open.

There is soo much to say, but I will say this. If you just leave and NOT try to work on this YOU will regret your decision for the rest of your life because you will know you did NOT try. If you do try and it fails my bet is that your H will support you in your decision and you two will go your separate ways with much less baggage than you would leave the marriage with now.

What you probably don't see in your depression is that our advice is really geared to minimizing your pain in the long haul, not your H's. Seems odd that we would do that, but the reality is that you are and will be in more pain if you don't give it an effort than your H will be. For him to have a chance to be happy with you, we need to help you minimize your pain, and the surest way is for you to consider working on the relationship and then if warrented the marriage. They are related, but this is deeper than you realize just yet.

Please consider this, your happiness in the future rides on it, no matter what happens to your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

Margie - Nevermind, we talked this.

Margie - Are you still out there? Would anyone else like to hear how Margie is doing?

Yes, I am very much concerned for both of you.

Margie....Any update. We honestly want to help and support you. Whatever the outcome.

Mr. Wondering

rprynne:

I may be way off base here and I don't mean to step on your toes, but Margie started this thread. If you want her to come here for support I would suggest you not intervene when she posts or seeks advice. Like I said, I may be way off base, but if I were her I wouldn't like it and I would stop posting as well. Let her come to the decision on her own, don't push her.

Good luck.

I am still here. I have taken some time away to focus on myself. I was not ready for recovery the first time and I'm still not now. I was not honest with my H or with Dr. Harley because I had lost the feelings long ago for my H and had new feelings for someone else. I know it was wrong and I have talked honestly with my H recently.

I do know that I want to work on myself first-find out without my H or the other person what makes me happy and what I want out of life. If I have feelings that I don't want to be married, I don't see how I can begin working on the marriage.

Many may find this approach very wrong, but I think it is what I need to do before I can even consider recovery. I now have ended contact and plan to begin IC.

Someone has previously asked me to list what I like about my H. He is loving, caring, handsome, kind and funny. We have a good time when we are out together. We can have nice long talks. In many ways, he is my best friend. However, some years ago, the feelings stopped at friendship. ----but that is what I like about my H.

Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions.

Margie, I don't think this approach is wrong. It sounds like you are on the right track with ending contact and seeking IC. You know how people say you shouldn't get in a "rebound" relationship? Well an A is that times ten. You cannot have a healthy relationship with your husband when you are also sharing yourself with someone else. And it is not healthy to jump from a long term marriage into another relationship.

Margie, I think this is where people in long term relationships get confused and have affairs. Affairs are really infatuation, not mature love. They do rekindle those "feelings" that everyone loves, excitement, feeling special and new, etc. Heck sometimes I long to feel that way. But this is infatuation and those feelings don't last. Mature love may be dull and unexciting at times but there are ways to spice things up a bit. A friend told my WH that if he put all the effort that he put into his A into his marriage, he'd be getting out of his marriage what he gets out of his A. This is so true, cause and effect. It is much easier to spice up a long term marriage than to try and get mature love from a new relationship.

"A friend is one to whom one may pour out all the contents of one's heart, chaff and grain together, knowing that the gentlest of hands will take and sift it, keep what is worth keeping and with a breath of kindness blow the rest away."
- Arabian Proverb

I would say a marriage is a lot like this.

Margie, my advice would be instead of looking for a relationship to make you happy, look inside yourself. You seem to be on the right track now with IC. Don't let any new relationships complicate that.

Good luck and keep posting.

S.