Nothing really wrong with the barn itself. It was the stock tank that holds the fresh water for all the animals.

Sometime the horses / cattle will unplug the element that keeps the water from freezing. That wasn't the case last night. The element itself burned out. I had to drive into town to get a replacement. 1hr + round trip. The real mess come from haveing to drain the tank. The tank is 100+ gallons so when it is full I need to use the tractor to move it. I Drug it out into the barnyard with the tractor to drain it. Replacing the element only took a few minutes. Putting the tank back in place and filling it took over half an hour. It is too cold to run the hose to the tank (the hose would freese shut before I could get the water flowing) so I had to fill five gallon buckets and fill the tank that way. On a normal night it only takes about 4 buckets, no big deal. Last night it took 20.

My shoulders are telling me today that I shoudn't have done that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No big deal really, just a couple of hours of work that I would have preferred not to do!

Tis one of the prices I pay for having so many Pets!


That's all you can do. Let hope he starts think about WHY these are some of your boundries.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Excellent! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You turned around the sitch to make him more responsible for his behavior.



I understand completly, I have a teenaged daughter myself. I'm sorry that you been put in this postion. That's why I recommended sports functions outside of school.



I think that this would be the best solution if you can get her to agree to it.



Tell him what I have told you: That he is a junkie and that OW is his drug of choice. The only way to get himself "clean" is to go cold turkey. It's not pleasent but you CAN do it.

Remind him what the reward is if he gets through this: Restored Love, Restored Family, Restored Respect.

I can't say it any more plainly than that.

Stay Strong!

Hi WTF,

I'm glad the problem with the barn wasn't too serious. Hope your shoulders get a nice rubdown and feel better. I understand about too may animals. I have 3 birds and 2 cats. I love them to pieces but they wear me out. Add on 3 teens and a WH and a full time job...whew, I'm getting tired thinking about it so I will move on. LOL.

The game went well last night. My H went and I told him that he could help me relax by not wandering and acting like he is with me not just next to me. He didn't say much in response but when we got there, he went to the bathroom and met me in the stands. He sat next to me and talked with me. The OW came in after we had been sitting for about 15 minutes. She sat right by the door, about 30 feet away from us and at the same level. I had to get my DD some water and my H gave me the money and I went past the OW and her STBXH who was sitting next to her. Her STBXH said "Hey" to me and I responded cheerfully. After the game, my H just hung out in the stands. She left and we moved down to the other side of the court then to watch the Varsity game. I am very relieved with how my H acted and I think he was relieved with how I acted as well.

God is good. He really has a hand in things and sometimes it is so obvious.

Gotta go,
Loni

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Excellent News!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> In this case actions spoke much louder than words. Sounds like your H actually stayed and payed you a visit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Smoothly handled all around. No scenes were made. No LB'ing, and I suspect no contact occurred.

Just a quick Q. Does OW's STBXH know about the A? I would assume he does and he likely wouldn't be "supportive" of contact between the two.



In this case his actions spoke volumes about his intentions! It sounds like you had a pleasant evening out and everyone was acting like a respectable adult. I'm glad you were able to have a good night!

We all need nights like this to remind ourselves about what were fighting to save.



Kinda interesting how he just puts his hand in there once in awhile to help guide things along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I will be signing off the boards later this afternoon. I woun't be back until Tuesday at the earliest. I just wanted to Wish you and yours a Merry Christmas. I hope you have a joyous and peaceful holiday!

BTW: This post contains some of my patented cyberspace fingernail strengthener. Apply liberally when needed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there!

Hey Loni,

Haven't seen you post in awhile. How are things going over the Holidays?

Let us know how your doing!

Hi!

Sorry for the lapse, my job has decided to stop internet activity and I find it hard to get online at home with the kids and housework and H and pets and etc.....

Anyway, we are still together. He has refused SF. I mean refused. He says when he's ready, he will let me know. I think it's time to go back to loving detachment. He seems to respond to that better than anything.

I asked him on New Years Day, if he had made any resolutions. He hadn't but I told him that my resolution is to be happy in 2006. Whether I am alone or with him, I will be happy. So my actions are geared toward that goal. I am working out and looking at weight loss options. I am pursuing friendships and improving the ones I have. I am getting rid of as much stress as I can and taking care of me. I am determined that my happiness will not be dependant upon my H. I still hope to share my life with him and make our marriage into one that brings us both joy.

On a different note, my dad is elderly and just moved into an apartment close by. We had been going out to his home 2 or 3 times a day to care for him. Anyone who has elderly parents knows what a relief it is to know that they are in a clean, safe and nearby environment. My H has been amazing in helping to get my dad moved. He even helped me get my dad showered and changed today. When we left, I told him that he is an incredibly good guy and I am so impressed with how much he did for my dad. He said that he isn't a good guy. I said that I think he is and I am proud of him. I then let it go. He didn't say anything else. I hope the deserved admiration sinks into his foggy heart. If not, then I still spoke the truth.

It has been almost 4 mos since SF. I am a 38 yr old woman. I am at my sexual prime and I am sorely missing being intimate with my H. I am even dreaming about it. I have even considered taking him to a motel and tying him up to the bed and having my way with him. I haven't done it, of course. Thank God I have more self control than that. he he he.

Gotta go.
Loni

Hey Loni,

You sound great! I'm so glad to hear that you're setting positive goals that will bring you happiness no matter what happens. That's so healthy! I'm also impressed with your H's willingness to help with your dad. Those actions show character, in my opinion. I hope everything else comes together soon as well. About missing sf, can I just say I know what you mean?! For us it's been over a year. Even though I miss the actual sf, more than anything I miss the emotional intimacy that came with it. But that had been missing for a while before that anyway.

Well, I'm glad to hear good things from you. Good luck in this new year!

Take care,

Dulce (formerly Workin_on_me -- I noticed someone else had previously registered a very similar name.)

Good to hear back from you Loni! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I sure understand about that! I am now entering the busiest time of year for my work. My work tends to be busiest at the beginning of the year and slows way down at the end of the year. So I don't have the chance to "lurk" on the boards very often during the first half of the year. I do almost no surfing from home. Just a POTS connection at home. No high speed anything available where my home is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />



I'm glad to hear that your still together. I hope that things are continuing to move forward for you. As for his refusing SF I wonder if he is just trying to punish himself? I'm quite sure that I would have problems accepting such a gift if I had damaged the trust / intamacy of the M like he has. Unfortunately we all know the side effects if he continues this.

Just as a side question: Do you suspect there may be medical reason he (can not / will not) accept SF?



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That was a excellent resolution! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Not only an excellent personnel goal but one that will put "gentle" pressure on him to work toward reconsilliation (at least if he wants to be with the New / Impoved you!). Sometimes it takes seeing the BS starting to move on without them that makes the WS decide to really start working on reconsilliation. I hope he takes note of this and steps up to the plate and takes the challenge.



I know exactly what you mean! That your H stepped up to help with this speaks volumes about his true character!

I truly do think that he is still trying to forgive himself for what he has done to his family. This new routine may become instrumental in helping him recover / forgive himself. I have always been of the opinion that helping others is one of the best ways that we can help ourselfs. Seeing the positive effect of our actions on others gives us the confidence to persuvere though our own personnel problems.

A little about my W and I.
My W and I bought a piece of the family farm about 8 years ago. At the time our our 1 yo DD was diagnosed with Junior Rhumatyoid Arthritus and Lyme's disease. Because of that issue (and others) my W decided to become a SAHM. At this same time her father (in his early 70's at the time) was in declining health. My MIL was working full time in order to provide Health insurance for them.

We built our home about 200 yards from the main farm house / buildings. My W would "check in" on her father a couple times a day. Fix lunch.. etc.. and care for our children. When I got home from work I would do the "farm chores" and help with maintenance / upkeep of the farm. Just little things, but we were able to keep him on the farm and not in a nursing home. My FIL passed away a little over a year after we moved next door.

MIL still works full time (old habits are hard to break) and is in her mid 70's now. She still lives in the main farm house and will for as long as she wants to. We will do all in our power to help her stay there.

This farm has been in the family for almost 200 years. Even before Wiscowsin was a state. A lot of family history is on this little plot of land. My W and I plan on being the next caretakers... until it is time to pass it on to one of our DD's.



Have you told him that? You may get a rise out of him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> After all, he does have some "responsibilities" that he has neglecting lately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My W and I are in our mid 40's. We just had a new beautiful DD last March. A big blessing for our whole family! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Your "prime" will go on for years yet!

Loni,

I ask myself the same question everyday. We used to live overseas (in his home country). After finding out about the A he wanted me to leave. So I came home, he kept telling me he knew he would come begging me back, just not right now. Wanted to see if it was going to be "real" with OW (who also works for him). It's been 6 months and he now says he wants to be with me. Problem is after being home I don't want to go back. The country I lived in is hard, the people aren't nice, day to day life stinks. I put up with it for years because i loved him and our marriage more than I loved my country, etc.

Well now I've decided I can't/won't go back. His company was bought out and he's one of the few survivors, so he doesn't feel like he wants to come to the U.S. (and leave his family). And I met someone else who is amazing. He's from here and members of my family have known him forever...not a bad word spoken by anyone. His wife cheated on him so he knows exactly what I'm going through. I know MB says NOT to have your own affair and I believed it (still do). I've been honest with him from the beginning and he knows what's going on. WH doesn't know...I want him to figure this out on his own (whether that's right or wrong). WH does ask me if I'm with someone, and acts like it would be ok if I was.

The guy I'm with is incredible, through him I've discovered how a man is supposed to treat a woman...with respect, caring and love. Little things happen every day that make me stop in my tracks. The thing is, I still love my WH !!!
Well you can't just stop after 16+ years now can you? WH used to be very caring, loving, etc too. I just wonder everyday if that could ever return?

Yeah I get real angry too sometimes about why do I have to be in this position in the first place? WH has no real complaints about me, has told me repeatedly he couldn't have asked for a better wife. He's just terribly confused and wants me to wait while he figures it out. Sigh......

Divorce is the easy way out of this yes....but Mom always told me nothing good comes easy.

WTF,

That is so wonderful about the farm. I'm a city girl so farm life is very foreign to me but I love the history and roots your family has there. Thanks for the kind words and congrats on the baby.

I don't think my H has a physical problem with SF but the guilt he's feeling might be a real problem for him. Before the A, he was always "the good guy". One of his mantras throughout all of this is "I know who I am". He said this all the time, esp. when someone would call him on his behavior or if I was getting support from one of my friends. He hated being judged for the A. A lot of rationalization went into his thinking. The act of the A was so opposite of who my H believes himself to be. As you can see from helping me with my dad, he is a decent, kind, caring man. I hope that someday soon, he will come to terms with the choices he made and find forgiveness for himself. I really don't believe he will believe that I can and will forgive him if he doesn't forgive himself.

Sometimes, I really think that I have forgiven him for the affair. But, occasionally, I will feel that hurt again and remember the many times that he said and did things that broke my heart. I wonder if forgiveness can come in stages. I've made the decision to forgive. I think of that as Stage 1. Forgiveness for all of it may take a very long time. Of course, he knows more about the affair than I do, so I wonder how long it will take him to forgive all the things that he did that I know nothing about.

Something interesting happened the other day. I waited until my H got home from work on Friday before I went to the grocery store. I took all the kids with me and I was gone for about 1 1/2 hours. When I returned, I told my H that my dad wanted him to come out to the apartment to look at his TV. I had to go out there anyway and asked my H if he wanted to just go with me. He made some excuses and I told him that he could call my dad and tell him so I didn't have to try and make excuses for him. Then my H said something that I almost laughed at..."Fine, I will go with you since you don't want me to be at home alone."

I let it go until I got in the car with him. Then I calmly said to him, "I am not worried about you being home alone. Obviously, since I was just at the store for an hour and a half and you were home alone. If you are going to cheat on me, you will find a way. Then I will find out without babysitting you or watching your every move. I don't have the time or the energy to be your babysitter."

He didn't say anything so I went on with..."Are you cheating?"

"Yeah, I'm cheating." sarcastically.

I didn't respond to the sarcasm but I replied with, "Good, then I guess neither of us need to worry about it."

Later that night, we had a nice quiet evening. When I went to bed, I couldn't sleep. He actually held me close, rubbed my head and encouraged me to just relax and sleep. A little peak at the old H. I slept like a baby after that.

Loni

I have a question about NC letters. I really believe the A is over but that she ended it. He has refused to write a NC letter. Is that a serious problem? Can we get through recovery without it?

Loni

Last night, I kissed him with passion when he went to kiss me goodnight. He told me he is just going to sleep and rolled over. I told him that I miss his touch. He said that he doesn't have a touch. I said that I was just lonesome for his hands on me.

Then I think I did something stupid...I asked him if he was punishing me for something. He said he wasn't punishing me for anything and I told him alright and "sweet dreams" and went to sleep.

This morning he kissed me goodbye before he left for work and rubbed my back as he did it. I called him back for a repeat, and he kissed me a little longer and rubbed my back again.

I really miss how easily we touched each other before all of this. The tenderness and even the occasional wrestling and roughhousing we used to do. God knows how much I will appreciate having my H back to himself. I hope it happens and I hope it happens soon.

Last night, I just had a momentary relapse into doubt. I felt like he was cheating on me again and I wanted to interrogate him and make him swear on a bible. I didn't do any of those things. I did take a deep breath and let it slide. I figured that if I still felt like that in the morning, I would come on here and discuss it with you all. I don't still feel that way. Is it just part of recovery? It seems like it is pretty normal to not believe the A is over esp. after all the lies and deception.

Well, I gotta go to work. Have a good day.
Loni

Hi Loni,

It all sounds pretty normal and pretty promising to me. I hope WH and I will be where you are soon. I have the same question about the NC letter, as we're in the same place on that matter. Hopefully someone in the know will enlighten us.

All I can say is "patience, patience, patience." That's my mantra right now, and your situation seems like time will be the key. I really think you're going in the right direction. Once again, JMHO, no expert here by any means. So good luck and take care and keep it up -- you're doing great!!!


Dulce

Thanks Dulce,

I hope you reach recovery soon. It really is a pretty awful sitch for all of us.

Loni

I just talked with my WH tonight because he is pulling back into his moody, quiet, angry WS routine again. He speaks to me like he is tolerating me. Do I feel loved? h### no. I don't even feel liked. Or respected, or cared for. I get more recognition from my patients and strangers in line at the grocery store, than I do from my H. Isn't he supposed to care more than anyone?

He says that he doesn't care what I think because he knows what I think. I asked him "what is that?". He then backtracked and said that he doesn't know what I think. I asked him if he wanted to fix the M. He didn't answer so I asked if he believes that we can fix it. He said no because too much has happened. I asked "What?" He said that he knows what people think of him and that he knows that all of this has been put on him. I asked him if he feels like I have taken responsibility for what I did wrong in the M. He says that it doesn't matter because he doesn't care what people think. I told him that it sounds as though he care a great deal. He said that he can tell that people are judging him because some will not talk to him anymore and even when others do talk to him he can tell that they don't respect him anymore.( I am paraphrasing a bit because I can't remember his exact wording.)

I paused to gather my words and a little nerve, and I asked him who doesn't speak to him anymore. He thought for a minute and replied that he can't think of anyone. I asked if this might be more imagined than reality. He said "maybe". I then pulled the big one out and brought up that it sounds to me as if he is the one doing the judging and perhaps he can't believe that others could either not care, or forgive what happened. He didn't say anything and by this time, we had arrived home where the kids are so we couldn't continue the talk. He just left to take our DS17 to a friends house. I asked him about coming with him and he angrily said "no" and that he doesn't want to talk but he will if I insist when he gets back.

I want to tell him that he can choose to follow what the book (surviving an affair) says, return to MC and follow what the MC says, or he can choose to leave. He acts as though he is this martyr for the M. He is staying because of the kids. He doesn't worry about me and he doesn't worry about himself. I asked if he loves me and he says he does. I asked if he loves me than how can he not care what I think or worry about me. He just shrugged.

Is the M dead? Am I beating on this dead horse or am I just getting sucked into the fog again? I need to hear what some of you think.

Now isn't the best time for him to leave because our DDs birthday is tomorrow. She will be 15. I wouldn't want her to always associate her BD with her daddy leaving.

What do I do?

Loni

Hmmmm. It's hard to tell what is going on. I would assume he is just in withdrawal. Somewhere I think it is Star who has the post about her husband being in a cave and not wanting to enjoy things with the family. She just continued enjoying life and inviting him, and he finally softened.

What really hurts me is the statements he makes about how he is here for the kids. He doesn't take me into consideration much anymore. It seems like he showed me more care and regard when he is leaving me. Heaven knows I have enough experience with him leaving and/or wanting to leave.

Today was really rough. Our DD had a volleyball tourney from 9:30 till 2pm. Of course the OW was there to watch her dd. My H didn't talk to her but he definately saw her. She has a way of making herself the center of attention. I might be a little more sensitive than I would be normally, but she just seemed to be so openly flirtatious without really directing it toward my H. You know, the hair flips, the way of walking. My H came with me to the tourney and sat by me for the first game. When we came in, we saw her sitting about halfway down and there wasn't anywhere to sit that didn't involve walking right in front of her. I asked my H what he wanted to do and he said that he guessed we could stand where we were. After a bit, the OW got up and walked out of the gym and I asked my H if he wanted to go sit at the far end. He said he was fine there. I went and sat down but I was kind of upset with his attitude. He seemed to be ticked off about the sitch. After a few minutes, he sat down by me and we watched the game. For the second game, we had to wait about 45 mins. My H has the smallest bladder known to man, and he went to the BR again. We were all out in the hall by the concessions when he came out. He said he was going outside and I said "ok". I thought he was going to have a cigarette and I also thought we would run home and check on our DS13 who was home with a friend. I went outside and to the car and he wasn't there. I knew where she was because she left right in front of me and sat by the wall having a cig.

H came back in and looked for me. Then he really did go outside. I waited for a bit and then went to watch our DD play. The first game of the set came and went and I still didn't see my H. I started to get really nervous. I didn't know where she was for awhile and I didn't know where he was. I hate that feeling. She came in right before the game started and sat down. I was sitting with some friends and trying to act like it was all fine. Then I got up to check the score at the end of the game and looked over to see my H sitting by the door. I went down there when he motioned for me. He said he came in right after the game started and had seen it all but didn't see me till I stood up. I asked why he didn't come down to take a look and he said that he thought this would be a better way to "stay out of trouble". I told him that I didn't think he was in trouble but ok.

I don't like this. NC would really require more than my H is willing to do. We would either have to move or put our kids into a totally different school system. He has point blank refused both. In fact, when we talked about NC last night, he actually said that he doesn't put much stock into it since we would have to move. I just responded that I am referring to significant contact, like talking to each other, phone calls, email, going out of your way to see each other. My preference would be for her to move to some country far far away. This seems like the only other way that won't cause more pain for the kids.

I am getting very worn out by the complete lack of affection, care. God knows how long it has been since my H has kissed me without me kissing him first. Other than for goodbye or goodnight. My taker is awake and fighting to come out. My giver is tired. I even thought for a minute of calling her stbxh and just making out with him. I don't even like him that way. I won't cheat, I refuse to cheat. I just miss being held and loved. My H treated me so well before the A and I miss it. Sometimes, like today, I really consider how a divorce would be better for me than this. It's the last thing I want but the idea is beginning to not sound as awful as it did.

What do you think about telling him to choose the book, the MC, or to leave?

Loni

I think it is too early for that. It seems like your husband is making some effort, albeit, not enough.

I know EXACTLY what you mean about the OW being an attention seeker. Mine came by a garage sale I was having and stood on the corner, chatting up all of the neighborhood men. She also loves to drive by my house and flip her hair.

Okay, Loni, I know how you feel. Your feelings describe mine almost exactly. Weary. I feel weary and I can tell you do too. But I'll have to agree with Believer that it just hasn't been quite long enough to give up, and there seems to be SOME effort. I've pretty much decided that myself today as far as my sitch goes. Three weeks will be dday#1 anniversary, and I was using that as a goal, a marking point to decide what to do next, feeling like some kind of plan B or ultimatum may be in order at that point. I'm like you, getting NO affection or love (well, little enough that it's practically none) and no commitment to NC and unwillingness to go to MC and pretty much most of the same sitch. We even have the "sightings" at church functions sometimes, and it's soooooo awkward and difficult for everyone.

BUT, I think I'll try to hang in a few more months, because the last couple of days there have been little, teeny, tiny, eensy baby steps I've noticed. Just enough to not let me completely give up at this point. I hope you can see those eensy little steps forward that will give you just enough to keep going a little bit longer. If you don't I'm afraid you'll always wonder what would have happened if you had (me too). Please hang in there, Loni. I think you can do it a bit longer. Of course if you can't we'll be here to support you too. I know it's soooooo difficult. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Dulce

Thanks Believer and Dulce. This morning I woke thinking about what do I do with this roommate/husband lying next to me. I don't want to push but I also can't live with the idea of a loveless marriage. I can really see how quickly I could learn to hate this man that I love. I woke him and asked him if he could do something for me. He became impatient immediately and I almost said "forget it". But, I pressed on... "I need you to be my husband. All the way." Of course, he thought I was talking about sex. He asked if he had sex with me would I be happpy. I said no. I just want to feel loved or at least cared for. I told him that I don't even feel like he likes me right now. I said that I love him very much and I need him to choose how to make things better. He got out of bed and said that this is all I get. That he did choose and if I'm not satisfied with that then he doesn't know what to tell me. Then he left the room. I layed there thinking about how to go from there... Keep asking for more... Deal with what I have... Make him sleep in another room...

He came back to bed and pulled me close. I thought he was being sweet until he asked if he did it with me would I be happy. I said "no" and started to cry. I hate that I cry so easily. At least I wasn't sobbing. Just teary. He told me not to cry and just kept on holding me. I initiated SF and he reluctantly responded so we finally had SF but I was the only one who seemed to enjoy it. He says he doesn't want it anymore and that he isn't worried about it.

So here I am. A reluctant husband and full-time roommate. A live-in father for our kids. Someone to help around the house and to bring in another paycheck. A lover? Friend? I am so frustrated. I have been dealing with this for 2 years now. The A is finally over but the damage is so extensive that I can't hardly see around it. I can't even begin to deal with all of the anger and hurt that I am feeling until he is out of this damned withdrawal and ready to handle the emotional impact. He is so involved with his hurt and anger and sense of loss over the affair that he doesn't seem to be able to see that I was close to destroyed by all of this.

I can't even think about all the things he did or could have done with the OW without wanting to be sick. I have to actively pursue another line of thought so that I don't want to throw a brick at his head. Then when he talks to me like he can hardly stand to be in the same room with me, I feel so much anger and hurt. Sometimes, I just look at him and think "[censored]".

I am hanging in there still and as of today, I am resorting to prayer and letting "Jesus take the wheel". It seems that the marriage has been saved. Now let's see if the relationship can be.

Loni

Well, at least someone enjoyed it.

Have you checked out that book by Laura Schlessinger - "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands"? The only reason I ask is because it gives things that a woman can do one-sided. The author says that many women who had given up on their husband were able to turn things around on their own.

Men are nothing like us, and sometimes they think rather strangely. Your husband DID hold you. So he is willing to do something.