Well,

Quick summary. I have been in PLAN B since the summer (several weeks after WS moved out of the house, I just could not handle seeing WS in and out of the house while he was staying with OW, and so, for no other reason than for my own sanity, WS received 'typical' PBL and I chose to cut contact).

I do not have family here, nor did I want to burden any of my friends with the role of 'intermediary'. Emails not an option either, so...

since WS and I share custody (informally, as no legal actions have yet been taken, since renting his own apt - not sharing with OW) of our two boys, we now communicate the necessary info. by telephone messages only (direct phone convo. does not work! - which was attempted at first, because it's hard to stick to 'facts only' - so for those who need to communicate for kids or finances reasons, save yourself this trouble) which messages average about one/two a week and relate to the 'switch' of the boys and finances.

On a couple of occasions WS has offered/suggested/invited me to meet with me in order to discuss 'matters', so a few times, I took it as an opportunity of reminding him more or less that I would be willing to do so once, and if, the OW was out of the picture.

In one of my messages to him last week, I informed me that I had decided to let S14 (going on 15) keep the key to the house even during the week he was staying with him (for, among other things, practical reasons....and if S14 'missed' the house and his room).

Last night, WS left me a message:
- confirmed receiving my last message
- gave me info. re comments of teachers he met re S14 at parents' night (if you have been reading my thread, I actually 'saw' him there from a distance!)
- asked if next Sunday, even though boys were scheduled to be with me and it was S14's birthday, he wanted to consider taking them to a family get together (his), but that he would not force the boys to go if they didn't want to

then.....he went on to say, that he had had a discussion with S14 and that S14 feels responsible for our happiness, his and mine, that he had told S14 that it was not his responsibility to feel responsible.....that S14 feels bad when he has to leave me alone when spending a week with WS....anyway, he would work on that...and considered consulting about it....said he knew that it was not easy....that he realized that he blew our dream of having a family... a very big dream.... but... he would get back to me about that...


This is my interpretation:

WS: "next Sunday, even though boys were scheduled to be with me and it was S14's birthday, he wanted to consider taking them to a family get together (his), but that he would not force the boys to go if they didn't want to"

DECODING: I know I am thinking about myself again, but I would like the boys to come with me to see my family... to show them that we are all doing OK even though you won't be there....even though I have abandoned my family...but I won't force them... can't insist on them to consider family get together important when I have shown the greatest disrespect to ours...

WS: "S14 feels responsible for our happiness, his and mine, that he had told S14 that it was not his responsibility to feel responsible"

DECODING: my moving out has put S14 in the terrible position of being in the 'middle', feeling responsible for what has happened, loving both his parents, and not knowing what he can do to make things better, which he can't because it's not his fault, and I feel terrible about putting him in that spot....can you help me out on this?


WS:".....that S14 felt bad when he had to leave me alone when spending a week with him....anyway, he would work on that...and considered consulting about it....said he knew that it was not easy....that he realized that he blew our dream of having a family... a very big dream.... but... he would get back to me about that..."

DECODING: I feel guilty about how S14 feels about leaving you alone because a child should never have to leave his 'mom' and/or try to fill the role that I used to play in our family...to help me feel less guilty, since you don't seem to want to cooperate, so you can share some of the guilt about the whole situation, I will consider having S14 speak to a professional about it...and hopefully that will make me feel better...although that won't resolve the problem of him feeling 'divided' between us.... I realize I have hurt you all but it's a price I am willing to have you all pay in order for me to have the OW in my life...


I replied and decided to address only his request about the family get together, and that I had no objection if boys wanted go with him.

....although WS is right about one thing, boys are going to be continually divided wanting to please both parents at the same time, which given the circumstances, will be impossible) So....I intend to let the boys feel as comfortable as possible about the choices they make...and focus more on 'what' they want to do rather than what would please parent(s)...I will certainly not try to make them feel bad if they choose to go with dad on Sunday!

....it kills me to have the boys be put in such a 'difficult' spot....they will have to deal with this for the rest of their lives....even with my best efforts, I can only 'minimize' the damage...can't change the fact that WS has moved out and all the consequences as a result of it...

Anyway, this is mostly to vent I guess, because I have 'gotten the fact' that having a discussion with WS while OW is in the picture will be a total waste of time.... as WS would continue doing what he did while he was still at home during the A: justify and defend his right to A with OW, to avoid facing the fact that he has been dishonest with me and is not proud of himself, that each of us is responsible for our own happiness, so that he won't feel guilty about acting so selfishly at the expense of others by destroying our family.

Some of you won't be surprised to hear that I feel this is getting long.... but I do want to put it 'out there' for comments and suggestions - my guess is that WS, after 6 months out to the house, inspite of himself, is having to face some of the 'inevitable' consequences of the his actions, even though he may still be unwilling to accept responsibility as he is still in total denial as far as I can see, because it seems to me that WS is still looking for approval, to feel less guilty, to be able to 'enjoy' more time with OW. We all know, it won't work!...even with approval....because a relationship based on lies and fantasy just does not work - it is a 'poisoned' R.

Anyway, at this point, I feel I have 'invested' enough of my 'mental space' to WS.....conclude that WS's position is still 'status quo'...and so...let's move on with my life where I have total input.

***my guess is that WS, after 6 months out to the house, inspite of himself, is having to face some of the 'inevitable' consequences of the his actions, even though he may still be unwilling to accept responsibility as he is still in total denial as far as I can see***

I'd say you were right. Don't do anything to make things easier for him. The more uncomfortable and painful it gets for him, and the more cold reality intrudes on his fantasy world, the sooner he will wake up (if he is going to.)

Stay dark.
Mulan

***my guess is that WS, after 6 months out to the house, inspite of himself, is having to face some of the 'inevitable' consequences of the his actions, even though he may still be unwilling to accept responsibility as he is still in total denial as far as I can see***

I agree with you lunamare and Mulan - WS is having to face the consequences of his action, but not the responsibility. Being responsible is acting like an adult and right now WH doesn't want to do that. It is easier to avoid that fact and thought, than to admit it and deal with it.

My XWBF last night told me that me planning to returing to New Zealand with our DD to live was me making sure he is cut out of her life. The reality is that his decision making of A and living with OW has cut him out of DD life. I am getting on with my own life and doing what is best for me and DD. We have no family and very little support in London, am I meant to hang around for his convenience? In the WS world the answer is yes because it is all about ME ME ME ME...

Anyway, I just wanted to say I agree he is still in total denial.

I agree it is important to stay dark to help him continue discovering that what he thought his life with OW/ or single would be like is not at all the case.

That said, you were not able to do a Plan A really--based on how thick his dream fog was and how involved in the A he was.

If at any point you can remind him--that your family is NOT a lost dream--it could be a reality. The opportunity to have a better M and a family is still there (afterall, you have not filed for divorce).... though, it doesn't seem time yet.

Maybe delivering the Plan B letter again could achieve this--because I imagine that your plan B letter was loving too--with compliments to him and what you loved about him, etc. Maybe if he tries again to meet with you or talk to you about substantive stuff giving him another copy of the plan B letter would be a way to send him your love without compromising your position (and without letting him cake eat).....just a thought.

Also, Luna--you alluded to something really typical for kids in a divorce. You mentioned that your son feels guilty about how your and your H feel. This is a textbook reaction. I imagine there are a lot of books out there on how to help kids deal with this.

Does anyone have any suggestions on books about kids and divorce??

Hang in there Luna! You sound great!

Luna,

I have been thinking about your post off and on all day since I read it. It has taken me a while to know how to respond in a constructive manner. See you are at a point where you know your plan and direction so giving a constructive response without reiterating what you are already doing c/b difficult. In a sense, that's a good thing, just harder for us posters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Anyways, finally at 3:51am, here's my thoughts.



Orchid: While this seems long for plan B, it is still a necessity and I agree this is a safer mode for you. Now with that in mind and taken into account the time length, please read on.


Orchid: Hm..... I think you c/b a bit more creative in your personal support group. For your sake. What are your friends doing with you, your family and your WS? Please realize that true friends and relatives will hurt also. The A wrecks the relationship of many, not just the family. Some may want to help and not know how. Their help could aid recovery from all sides (yours, your children and the WS).


Orchid: R they recorded or played within earshot of the children?


Orchid: How often does this happen?


Orchid: Hm..... while I want t/b optumistic here I would err on the side of caution. It still isn't total remorse or regret, it's more like on the border of acknowledgement. But it is a start. Like a tear in the fog. Now this is where it gets delicate. The BS needs to not overreact but not ignore as well. Plan B tends to narrow at this point. R u in counseling with Steve or anyone at this time? Could you squeeze in a session with Steve? Don't push when he 'gets back to you....'. The fog still exists and he is beginning to get choked by it. He may still spew stuff because while he has admitted he is responsible for blowing the dream, he has not indicated he is willing t/d what is needed to protect his family from the WS. Hm.... reminds me of the times I dealt with false recoveries.....I took the WS back too early and now looking back, I allowed the pain to continue in my life because I wanted sooo hard to believe the WS was ready to repent when he was just acknowleding the facts. In the fog, that difference can widen the gap when a BS thinks the Ws is in recovery.......he is in that direction but still quite in the fog.



Orchid: What a terrible guilt to lay on a child. Commend your children for speaking their mind. If it is hard for us adults to deal with this, it is harder for the children to do so but in their little way, they also reach out through the fog and slap the A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> My son at 6 thought it was his fault. I snipped that one in the bud but had to continue to put those reminders out there throughout the years. Even now, my son asks questions but this time, he asks if we regret having him. It hurts me soooo much to hear those questions but he is persistent. I ask him why he needs to ask those kinds of questions and son says it is because he is being scolded. Now there is where I have a starting point. So while I can't NOT scold or discipline him, he realizes that is a loving act done w/o regrets. I show him examples of adults who don't get t/b disciplined when they s/b and how 'regretful' their lives are as a result. That 'son' should NOT want t/b like those kinds of adults. It is a hard lesson to teach..... but a vital one.


Orchid: The key is the WS has created this environment. You can redeem nor fix it for him. However, you are the mother of those children and protecting them is your responsibilty as well as his. What I told my WS was that, it is regretful that I have to protect my chlidren from his own father (due to the A) but if that is what it took, then so be it. Then I turned the tables and took the risk of asking the WS if he thought a parent who abandoned his children is a good parent? I often presented my thoughts in a 3rd party manner. In the fog, the WS felt safer because while he didn't feel I was talking about him directly, the human side of his brain made the connection and that was the side I wanted to reach. What I also noticed was the OW would also talk to the WS in the 3rd party manner.......it was something she was skillful at but her version was a bit wacko..... I saw it in her e-mails and even in court. Scary, our tactics for dealing with the WS sometimes paralleled each other. Weird but effective!??!?!


Orchid: Admission of guilt only. It is a start but not enough to make you drop all and say...'recovery'. Nope, this is where w/o proper POV a BS could make a big mistake. I see you are trying to keep yourself in check. That clear mind and calm heart is allowing you to see the difference between acknowledgement vs recovery. Don't lose that ability to see through the fog. It will help you in the future. I see a tear through the fog and it is a start. Not to get your hopes up but it is a good sign. Stick to your plan B for now. You really need t/b convinced waaay more...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Yes it does. U r the loving and sane parent. Now here is where you can skillfully in your minimal communication give some of that pressure to the BS.

Example:

BS (msg to WS): It is that time again. The children need to be picked up by __:___ am and returned by __:__ pm. Remember having to leave our home and go with you is difficult for them. Make is as pleasant as possible. Thanks, Luna.

WS: Ok.

NOTE: Take note the lack of the word please..... this is not an asking request. The sentence that says to 'remember' is short but is a reminder of how bad each visit is to the WS. Now it puts him on notice to make it better. If he does, it helps clear the fog. If he doesn't, it helps clear the way for you and your children to move forward.


Orchid: If this is the mesage you still get from the WS, despite his 'acknowledgement', then plan B is still the place t/b. I tend to agree with your stance. It is a hard one to keep so the fact that you can do so is commendable. Sorry you have t/b the strong one. Therefore, we will continue t/b part of your support group. R U in counseling with Steve or an MC also?

NOTE: The WS is never happy with themselves. It is obvious when others (family, friends, etc.) see the distorted face, actions and reactions of the WS. Sometimes it is quite hilarious what a WS will do trying to live the A and act normal. It just doesn't work. It is like trying to walk straight with a baseball bat sticking out of one's butt and thinking no one will notice. LOL!!!!


Orchid: I believe your assessment is correct. This is the kind of time where many a BS start to post less and think they are ready to move to the D. Maybe not yet. Moving to the D prematurely is not healthy for a BS and family. The mere fact that you know the direction of the A helps. Knowing your direction as a BS, mother and W keeps you on the straight and narrow. Or at least it should.

Sending you an {{{mb hug}}}. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Touche'.

take care,
L.

Mulan, NZgirl and Ahuman: Thanks for your replies.

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
If at any point you can remind him--that your family is NOT a lost dream--it could be a reality. The opportunity to have a better M and a family is still there
-----------------------------------------------------------

Ahuman: Since going to PLAN B, I already took a couple of opportunities to remind him of this.... He knows what he needs to do.... N/C with OW is the minimum condition to open up a 'dialogue' between us.

The reason I will avoid bringing it up when directly speaking about solutions re the boys' arrangements is because I would not want it to be solely for that reason. He would need to want to recover M with me as well, and for that, right now he is not prepared to meet the minimum condition - WS will need to do some 'visualizing' himself when he is out of the fog a bit more. He is still very much in the fog as far as I can tell, and he needs to be ready to take a risk with me again, swallow his pride, and most importantly consider doing without OW in his life!

BTW, Ahuman, this is the name of the book I referred to a few posts back that I found interesting to read: Cessez d'être gentil soyez vrai! (Etre avec les autres en restant soi-même) de Thomas D'Ansembourg.

I agree, however, that although he may not be taking responsibility for it (probably blaming me - for lack of cooperation), he can no longer hide from some of the 'reality' created by the separation.

It goes without saying, that I am totally curious of how things are with OW at this stage! My intention is to reassess my PLAN B in the summer of 2006: will WS have chosen to move further away...? and how to deal with that re boys... but most importantly, OW 'retires' next summer.... one of the basis of the A was the two 'working' together.... what does she plan to do? Will they plan to live together, or not?

It's a long shot.... but OW retiring can go both ways.... it will either distance them or pull them closer together...

It's important that I collaborate with WS re boys because we both love them very much, and needless to say it's what 'bonds' us the most, while at the same time ensure that my boundaries are respected. Tricky business.

My comment about giving him the letter was in response to his request to talk to you about "blowing the dream of having the family." I was just thinking of a way for you to be able to tell him that you love him, without letting him cake eat or betray Plan B. The letter probably had that stuff in it....so I thought it may be a good response to him requesting to talk to you about the dream of your family.

But if the request to talk was exclusively about the boys--it changes the scenario.

I commend you for doing Plan B until next summer. Seems really smart to me, especially after such a long M. You can't just give up on it like that. Besides, I can't imagine that you would want to be dating right now....so what is the point of filing for a D anyway?!

Did you see that post, I forget the title, about the BS who dated her FWS for about 18 months--then they got back together. If not, I will try and find it for you.

Ahuman, thanks for your reply.

quote:---------------------------------------------------
My comment about giving him the letter was in response to his request to talk to you about "blowing the dream of having the family."
---------------------------------------------------------

Actually, thanks for the suggestion, because in my reply message to him I did address it: more or less, I said that the dream of a 'family' was still possible should he still want it and be ready to committ to doing the work needed.

quote:----------------------------------------------------
I commend you for doing Plan B until next summer. Seems really smart to me, especially after such a long M.... Besides, I can't imagine that you would want to be dating right now....so what is the point of filing for a D anyway?!
-----------------------------------------------------------

That's exactly why, Ahuman, why the rush. Already I am realizing that before I thought it would take a long time to 'adjust' to staying in the family home with WS gone... Well, I was wrong.... I look forward to coming 'home'

Also, I need to work on my confidence....after 20 yrs with someone... having my family a day's ride away... but, actually, I am surprising myself... I think I am bouncing 'back' quicker than I thought I would... but then who wouldn't after removing oneself from the chaos and drama I went through the last six months WS was still in the house!!!! Thank heaven for PLAN B - WS really doesn't like the fact that he can't have 'discussions' with me... but it does force both of us to stick to the 'essentials'... I think it also helps both of us not LBust each other...

Luna,

Did my post make sense?

L.

Geesh, Orchid, thanks for asking about your post. We must have 'crossed posts' and would have missed otherwise.

quote:-----------------------------------------------Orchid: Hm..... I think you c/b a bit more creative in your personal support group. For your sake. What are your friends doing with you, your family and your WS? Please realize that true friends and relatives will hurt also. The A wrecks the relationship of many, not just the family. Some may want to help and not know how. Their help could aid recovery from all sides (yours, your children and the WS).
------------------------------------------------------------

I take turns in using 'friends' as sounding board, over the phone or, even better, sharing a meal with them, and trying really hard to get out of my 'comfort zone' and ask friends for help (when I think it would not inconvenience friends tooooo much!) Doing my best here! Family wise... my mom's health is not very good.. but inspite of it.. she has so far come up several times.... and since she is a good cook... has always brought over practically a month's supply of italian sauce! My brother has also fit in his busy schedule a lunch date with me when he flew up for business trip...

Definitely, I need to continue to widen my circle of 'resources' now that I am on my 'own' and because of PLAN B cannot 'use' WS as a resource... even though he would like nothing better!!

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Orchid: R they recorded or played within earshot of the children?
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No.

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Orchid: How often does this happen?
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So far, at least 2-3 times.

quote:---------------------------------------------------
Orchid: Hm..... while I want t/b optumistic here I would err on the side of caution. It still isn't total remorse or regret, it's more like on the border of acknowledgement. But it is a start. Like a tear in the fog. Now this is where it gets delicate. The BS needs to not overreact but not ignore as well. Plan B tends to narrow at this point. R u in counseling with Steve or anyone at this time? Could you squeeze in a session with Steve? Don't push when he 'gets back to you....'. The fog still exists and he is beginning to get choked by it. He may still spew stuff because while he has admitted he is responsible for blowing the dream, he has not indicated he is willing t/d what is needed to protect his family from the WS. Hm.... reminds me of the times I dealt with false recoveries.....I took the WS back too early and now looking back, I allowed the pain to continue in my life because I wanted sooo hard to believe the WS was ready to repent when he was just acknowleding the facts. In the fog, that difference can widen the gap when a BS thinks the Ws is in recovery.......he is in that direction but still quite in the fog.
----------------------------------------------------------

I agree, Orchid. No, right now I am not in counselling. I did speak to Steve H. twice before WS moved out. If ever WS is serious about changing directions, it will take him announcing N/C with OW to me. This is not the case. He is just starting to realize that things are not going to be as he had 'imagined' they would be. Focus is on better arrangement for boys because I know he loves them and it must really hurt to see them sooooo unhappy and know that he put them there! Even in the thickest of fog he cannot deny it - of course, he will never admit it to me... as a WS, to me, he is defensive, in denial, and feels totally entitled to do what he needs to do to pursue his 'happiness'

quote:--------------------------------------------------
However, you are the mother of those children and protecting them is your responsibilty as well as his.
--------------------------------------------------------

My eyes and ears are wide open. My SIL is a pyschologist and has given me signs to look for if things are getting 'out of hand'. One of the difficulties I have is on one hand I would really want WS to be a part of the boys' lives, on the other hand, I am not willing to stand by and allow it at any cost.... the moving back and forth would not be soo bad if WS developed a good R with his boys! I really don't want to deprive them of the things they could do together... if they figure out a better way of 'communicating'. My SIL suggested, with me out of the picture, she's not surprised...this is happening...and that WS will have to make some choices on how he deals with the boys if he wants to continue to be a part of their lives. If his style is to be authoritative.... he will have to give up some of the 'control' issues he has... if he wants to have a R with the boys. SIL suggests to encourage boys to take up whatever 'beef' they have with their dad.. WITH their dad!

quote:----------------------------------------------------
I often presented my thoughts in a 3rd party manner. In the fog, the WS felt safer because while he didn't feel I was talking about him directly, the human side of his brain made the connection and that was the side I wanted to
reach.
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Thanks, Orchid, I will keep that in mind, because WS, is very defensive!

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Orchid: Admission of guilt only. It is a start but not enough to make you drop all and say...'recovery'.
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I totally agree, Orchid. The last I heard, WS is not interested in a 'recovery'. WS is one ball of guilt, although he was hoping that 'moving out' would do the job.

quote:--------------------------------------------------- That clear mind and calm heart is allowing you to see the difference between acknowledgement vs recovery. Don't lose that ability to see through the fog. It will help you in the future. I see a tear through the fog and it is a start. Not to get your hopes up but it is a good sign. Stick to your plan B for now. You really need t/b convinced waaay more......
----------------------------------------------------------

That's what I like best about PLAN B - I can see through the fog.... Boy.... you think it's a good sign?? I don't see it! ...but believe me, Orchid, WS will have to do better than that to get to 'talk' and 'see' me.... I am not budging one inch from the requirement of OW out of the picture... so... at this point, WS is focusing on consequences to boys' lives.... and unless he tells me otherwise, that is how I take it...concern for the boys... how to make their lives better (of course, excluding the possibility of him coming back home, N/C with OW, and no M recovery)


quote:----------------------------------------------------
BS (msg to WS): It is that time again. The children need to be picked up by __:___ am and returned by __:__ pm. Remember having to leave our home and go with you is difficult for them. Make is as pleasant as possible. Thanks, Luna.

NOTE: Take note the lack of the word please..... this is not an asking request. The sentence that says to 'remember' is short but is a reminder of how bad each visit is to the WS. Now it puts him on notice to make it better. If he does, it helps clear the fog. If he doesn't, it helps clear the way for you and your children to move forward.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I will keep your suggestions in mind. Actually, I did that somewhat when I informed WS that from now on S14 had a key to home even when at his place.... meaning, if situation warrants it, he can come home

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Anyway, this is mostly to vent I guess, because I have 'gotten the fact' that having a discussion with WS while OW is in the picture will be a total waste of time.... as WS would continue doing what he did while he was still at home during the A: justify and defend his right to A with OW, to avoid facing the fact that he has been dishonest with me and is not proud of himself, that each of us is responsible for our own happiness, so that he won't feel guilty about acting so selfishly at the expense of others by destroying our family.

Orchid: If this is the mesage you still get from the WS, despite his 'acknowledgement', then plan B is still the place t/b. I tend to agree with your stance. It is a hard one to keep so the fact that you can do so is commendable. Sorry you have t/b the strong one. Therefore, we will continue t/b part of your support group. R U in counseling with Steve or an MC also?
----------------------------------------------------------

No, this is not the message I am 'still' getting because I am in PLAN B - it was the message I WAS getting... but as long as OW is in the picture I just assume that he would 'maintain' this message.

quote:------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: The WS is never happy with themselves. It is obvious when others (family, friends, etc.) see the distorted face, actions and reactions of the WS. Sometimes it is quite hilarious what a WS will do trying to live the A and act normal. It just doesn't work. It is like trying to walk straight with a baseball bat sticking out of one's butt and thinking no one will notice. LOL!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------

Yep, nothing they do seems to make IT right!

quote:---------------------------------------------------
Orchid: I believe your assessment is correct. This is the kind of time where many a BS start to post less and think they are ready to move to the D. Maybe not yet. Moving to the D prematurely is not healthy for a BS and family. The mere fact that you know the direction of the A helps. Knowing your direction as a BS, mother and W keeps you on the straight and narrow. Or at least it should.
----------------------------------------------------------

I am not ready to move to a D.

Definitely something is happening here. WS seems to be more aware of consequences and reality of the situation. He is showing a lot more concern about the boys' wellbeing than he has ever done before... I am thankful at least for that... it could have been the contrary... If M is not recovered, at least, I would really wish that boys have their dad in their lives as much as possible...

The boys have been doing this for 4 months. It's a good time to evaluate if we could make things better for them... at least.

Orchid, thank you very much for taking the time to review and think over my post (when do you sleep!) I really appreciate it.

Luna,

Glad 2 see your response. Seems like your logical mind is in charge now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> No more pulling the wool over your BS eyes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have been staying up late because my son has the flu. These things have a way of acting up late at night. Don't those germs know we need our beauty sleep!?!?!? :eek; <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Also I am getting the house ready for company later this month. My SIL and family are coming by during the winter break and w/b spending some time here and on Kauai. They haven't visited us since we moved here last year so I am trying to make it look nice. Hard t/d with a sickie here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Keep up the good work. Remember our jobs r 2 keep the WS' of this world, dysfunctional. Sometimes they do that all by themselves. LOL!!

take care,
L.

Orchid, sounds you will be busy over the holidays, so, hope you're making sure you don't catch you S's bug!

quote:---------------------------------------------------
family are coming by during the winter break and w/b spending some time here and on Kauai.
---------------------------------------------------------
Can't blame them, and must admit, I am a little jealous....

Anyway, I would like to tell you that you are a real inspiration, Orchid, with some of your WS stories that you so generously share with all of us....here and there!

I hope things continue to go well for you and S.

HUGS.