“””I think we were moving the right direction.”””

Please take a moment and describe that spiritual journey for me. Were y’all attending church together regularly? Were y’all praying together regularly? Was he encouraging you to grow closer to God?

“””The problem is, now once I want to bring God back”””

See that right there speaks volumes to me. That y’all pushed Him out and you had to re-find Him and you BF then throws a fit about what is Godly, tells me that this relationship is not of God. Have I ever encouraged you to read the book Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis? If I haven’t then pick it up. I truly believe that if you were reading that book today, which basically talks about how the “OTHER” side works, you would be shaking in your boots right now. When you hop on here talking about ‘no man will want ya because y’all can’t get giggy with it before marriage’, that’s not what God wants you to think, that’s what the Other Side wants you to think. Much of the desperation I hear in your voice relates directly to what is said in that book about the other side.

“””I haven't been around him long enough to see if he is growing overall. Right now, I'm not seeing much growth.”””

It’s my belief, in matters of spirituality that there are only two directions. Either you are growing stronger in your faith or you are growing weaker, there just does’t seem to be any middle ground. Either you’re rising or you are falling.

“””LL, I feel like you're saying we can't spend much time together, we can't have any alone time, and lets just have bible study 7 days a week instead."””

Yeah, OK…. I probably shouldn’t touch that one…

”””There are potential drug issues (not addictions, but that she admitted doing coke while she was out there) and the guy she saw out there is apparently making his way to Iowa in 2 weeks and she thinks I'm housing him (I'm NOT, which could well mean she moves out).”””

Why are you so quick to discount addiction, do you think that means failure or something? And isn’t addiction touted as a genetic disease and isn’t her father addicted? As a point of clarification, there is no potential drug issue, there is a drug issue. Cocaine is not typically a beginner’s drug and it’s also known as a very powerful/alluring drug. Do you know how often she’s using other ‘recreational drugs’ and what other drugs she’s used? Then think about this for a moment, y’alls relationship is strained to say the least, and that’s only what she’s told you. I’ll try to say this as soft as possible but the reality of the situation is that your daughter is the daughter of an addict and the woman that enabled the addict. She grew up in a sick household, no matter how much you tried to shield her/protect her/love her, she saw the sickness all around her. Now she is showing signs of that same sickness. We’re not going to kick around the could have would have should haves because you know and you’ve already received some great advise. There isn’t a lot you can do for her except don’t enable bad behavior. I’m saddened to say that from your descriptions of your daughter, you need to get a support system in place NOW. If that means switching churches or whatever, get ‘er did….. It truly sounds like to me that you are going to have to watch her search for bottom and that will be painful for you and you will be powerless until she finds it…..

Oh, and on the boy toy thingy, yep, that’s the hill to die on. Bravo…

PS. What about the poster that lives 10 minutes away from you. Now there's an opportunity for friendship right there. I wish I had some MB Buds close by.

Avondale,

I'm really struggling with the "is my BF saved or not" idea. There are times when I think that even though he believes he is, he can't be because he does things that are contrary to God's word. Then I look at myself and see all the things I do that are contrary (like worry all the time, for instance) and I get even sicker because I believed I was saved and now I'm questioning my own salvation. I know you're all trying to help me see reason. It is hard, because none of you know him or have talked to him or observed him. You only get what I tell you. And I'm questioning so much right now. And yes, the holidays are compounding everything, as is some tremendous stress from work and what is going on with my daughter, and then just the general fact that I go to be relatively calm each night and wake up shaking like a leaf. I can't seem to break that pattern, but I don't know why it's happening. So I keep assuming it's God telling me that I'm doing something wrong, but all I keep doing is just feeling more and more miserable about not being able to stop waking up anxious. That's where I'm starting to doubt my salvation.

LH,



When we first started being together on Sunday mornings, we were alternating going to the church he attends (or sometimes the one his parents attend) when I was over there, and going to my church when he was at my place. We did this fairly regularly up until just a week or so before everything blew up. We've not been to church with each other since then. I have discussed praying together, and we've both admitted being apprehensive about praying out loud or praying with others and admitted it's something we need to become comfortable with. He had mentioned thinking we'd grow into that as we became more comfortable with each other, but no...neither of us has asked to pray with the other. Is he leading me toward God? No. (Have I been leading him toward God? No.)



Yeah, he did throw sort of a tantrum. And then he admitted that he understands where I'm coming from. And he's even mentioned several times that he thinks I'm probably right, that he can't reconcile his actions to scripture. But yet he can't seem to maintain self-control, nor does he seem to even want to try. (Okay, he maintained enough that he didn't even try to get me to ditch my clothes last weekend, except for saying "I don't suppose we can shower together either, huh?" (nope.)--but he got his 'relief' anyway.) So maybe that's why I'm waking up sick and shaking each morning. Maybe God isn't going to bring me peace until I break up with him. But then I think, "Maybe God is working in his heart, just at a different speed, and maybe he really is saved, but this is his area of weakness and he's not ready to hand it over to God yet?" (rationalizing?)

My emotions and feelings are really making this all very difficult to sort through.



That's what I'm saying...I've only known him 5 months, not 5 years. I don't really know what his life was like 5 years ago or how he thought or acted. I know his beliefs about sex before marriage became more liberal after he divorced. On all the other stuff, I really don't know. I have heard his frustration at not being able to take his kids to church each weekend (because he only has them every other), and his further frustration at feeling like he can't be a leader in their life in that area, and now of course they're reaching their teens and fighting him on going at all, and that frustrates him. But church isn't everything. Lots of people go to church who probably aren't saved at all. Ugh, more emotional confusion.

And then I look at my own life. I've had some real growth periods. And I've had some real falling-on-my-face periods to counter them. If you looked at me during one of my fallen periods, it probably would be hard to see any good in me.

As for my daughter, okay, ANY drug use IS an issue. I don't even know why I put "potential" in there. It's making me sick to think about it. As for what she's done, up until the last couple months, when she started hanging out with a different girl who is nothing but no good, I was pretty convinced that dabbling in some weekend drinking was as far as she was taking things. Yes, that's very BAD itself, because her dad is an alcoholic. But I wasn't seeing a lot of evidence of it on a regular basis. But this new girl is just bad news, she's into all sorts of bad things, and I got a call earlier in the week from my DD saying that the girl had done coke all night, was freaking out, and my DD was bawling because she didn't know what to do. And from there, things went down hill out in SLC. It's been hard to get her on the other girl's cell phone, she's acted weird, and then the whole fiasco last night.

She is nearly a genetic twin to her father. They act the same. They think the same. They react the same when people try to reason with them. And yes, it is extremely painful to watch because I feel like my hands are tied. I watched my ex destroy his life over two decades and it about tore me apart. Now I'm set to watch his daughter do the same thing.

This morning I got up, sick and shaking again, and for the first time in a long time, all I could say was, "God, why?"

I know I have a lot of blessings. I'm just having problems right now remembering them.

LL

“””It is hard, because none of you know him or have talked to him or observed him.”””

You are correct, but do we really need to know, talk to, or observe him to form our opinion on what this relationship has done to you? I don’t think so. Some things are exactly what they are. I don’t need to see, talk to, or observe an addict to know that a person is showing addictive behaviors (just using that as an example). So I really don’t think I need to see, talk to, or observe Mr Awesome Guy to know that he is not God Centered, that much is easy. Whether he is leading you or your are choosing to follow that is a little more complicated.

“””I have discussed praying together, and we've both admitted being apprehensive about praying out loud or praying with others and admitted it's something we need to become comfortable with. He had mentioned thinking we'd grow into that as we became more comfortable with each other, but no...neither of us has asked to pray with the other.”””

So y’all were comfortable enough to share a bed but not comfortable enough to pray, that should tell you something right there.

“””Is he leading me toward God? No. (Have I been leading him toward God? No.)”””

Yes, you definitely have responsibility here, there is no doubt about it. But in all honesty, I truly feel that he is preying on your weakness. You were vulnerable with him. You gave him the ‘Anchor’ or Spiritual Leadership and by your own admission he went farther than you were willing to go. I know full well you didn’t stop him, but that does not absolve him from the fact that he took you there and wants to go back there. You were tempted and you allowed the temptation of the flesh to consume you. So where does temptation come from? It can’t come from a loving God, thus it must come from somewhere else. ((LordsLady)) you are a fragile child of God, anyone with two eyes and two ears can see and hear that. I believe that with all that I am. You are also emotionally damaged from the he!! on earth you lived through, again anyone can see that. So Mr. Awesome Dude had a choice, his choice was to aid in your spiritual, emotional, and physical recovery or yield his knowledge of you fulfill his selfish desires. I believe the choice he made is obvious. I also believe at the time because of your spiritual, emotional, and physical condition that you were powerless to enforce your boundaries and to an extent you still are today. Keep him, dump him, whatever, but let this whole situation stand as a marker as to where you are in your spiritual, emotional, and physical recovery.

“””And he's even mentioned several times that he thinks I'm probably right, that he can't reconcile his actions to scripture. But yet he can't seem to maintain self-control, nor does he seem to even want to try.”””

What does that tell you?

“””(Okay, he maintained enough that he didn't even try to get me to ditch my clothes last weekend, except for saying "I don't suppose we can shower together either, huh?" (nope.)--but he got his 'relief' anyway.)”””

So even after all the blow up and talks he still refuses to respect your boundary?

“””Maybe God isn't going to bring me peace until I break up with him.”””

I don’t know about that but I do know He won’t bring it to you until you let Him.

“””But then I think, "Maybe God is working in his heart, just at a different speed, and maybe he really is saved, but this is his area of weakness and he's not ready to hand it over to God yet?" (rationalizing?)”””

What you call ‘rationalizing’, I call enabling. A trait you no doubtable possess due to your previous circumstances and one that will keep you sick. Whether it’s your X, your daughter, or the flavor of the week, DO NOT ENABLE BAD BEHAVIOR…..

”””And yes, it is extremely painful to watch because I feel like my hands are tied.”””

Yes, and to an extent they are. The only thing you can do is realize where your power resides. IMVHO, it only resides in not enabling bad behavior. For the time being that is all you got and I’m sure for you after those two decades that will be a tough assignment.

OK I might be wrong but isn't your faith suppose to make you calmer and at peace - all I see is yourself beating yourself up.... over and over again and questioning your life and the role god plays in it...I keep reading that you keep putting yourself up on this pedastal that you think god would want you on and you keep falling and falling and falling and now you can't seem to get up... Really I think you need to figure out what part religion really plays into your life and go from there..... As for your daughter I don't think that you can blame her new friend for her new behaviors or continuance of bad behaviors..Your daughter has a problem - and though it may not help who she hangs around with - - NO excuses should be made - she is the one doing wrong... She needs direction and guidance and maybe intervention...

Lordslady,

I apologize for "coming out of nowhere." I mostly lurk, rarely post. But your situation touched me. Unfortunately, my style tends to be rather direct; I hope you won't take offense.

You seem to be drowning in a sea of worry and fear. Your BF is like a piece of wood that drifted closeby, and you're hanging on for dear life. What you can't see, because you're so focused on the driftwood, is that God is waiting right behind you in a lifeboat. He'll help you in as soon as your hands are free.

I read a book several years ago called "Prayer: Asking and Receiving" by John R Rice. It was written about 60 years ago, I think, reprinted several times, and I'm not sure if it's still in print. A good church library ought to have it, though. Dr Rice couldn't fathom people who prayed without expecting results - he compared it to window shopping, as opposed to REAL shopping. When you get up off your knees, you should KNOW what God's answer is, even if you don't know how or when you will see it.

In my experience, it takes quite a bit of time to reach that level of relationship with God (and sadly, no time at all to reverse the process). Can you devote an uninterrupted hour or so, on a regular basis, to the effort? My recommendation:

Avoid "I, I, I" prayers (I need help, I'm scared, I don't know what to do). Save those for short-term emergencies. Focus instead on God. List all the attributes you can think of, and what each one means to you.

For example, God is all-powerful. He controls everything that happens. Nothing happens by accident.

God is all-knowing. He knows what has happened to me, and what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next year. Nothing happens by mistake.

God is love. He wants good things for me. He won't do anything to harm me.

And so on. Find Bible references to back up and/or illustrate each one. Matthew 6 helped me a lot when my husband was out of work: Don't worry about what you will eat and drink, or what you will wear; God knows you need these things (my own paraphrase). Also Psalm 45:23 : I have been young and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.

Your faith is directly related to your knowledge and understanding of God. And the power of God in your life is directly related to your faith.

midge

I feel pretty hypocritical posting this. It's based on personal experience, but from some years ago. I need to take my own advice...

More on everything else later, but just wanted to post one good thing:

My baby girl is home from Salt Lake City. I just got home from picking her up at the bus station. Lots of things to still deal with, but right now I'm going to hopefully sleep a little better than last night, knowing she's here in the house with me.

LL

Haven't updated in a while. Been pretty low lately, and I know everyone gets very tired of my whining. ButI can't keep isolating myself because it just gets worse.

First, I am very aware at this point that I've thrown myself into a fairly major depressive episode. I can't see beyond the end of my nose. I have no hope for the future--it all looks bleak--and all I feel right now is my heart being ripped out through my stomach. I do have a Dr. appointment tomorrow to talk meds and probably get some more Xanax, too, to help me calm down for a while. And I'll look into some Christian counseling, but not sure yet where to find a good one nor how to pay short of charging it on a card that already has too high a balance due to a bunch of sick pets over the last year or so.

That said, I'm still in my PJ's today. I didn't even get out of bed until 3pm. I couldn't make myself get up and go to church--didn't want to face all the families and holiday foo-foo.

My son, while home from college, is currently in Minneapolis on a short vacation with his girlfriend. My daughter has been nothing but evil since she arrived home. Her language, while always not great, is just filled with "f" this and "G.D" that. And when I correct her on it, she just jumps down my throat and either says, "Don't listen then!" or "Kick me out!". She had friends over until 2am the 2nd night she was home. I tried to ignore most of it because I figured it would do her good to bond with some of her Iowa friends again, but they kept going out on the front step to smoke, and then they were loud, and I figured the neighbors would wake up and call the cops, so numerous times I went down and told them to keep it down. They finally left.

And on top of this is the whole thing with my guy (who I determined for sure as of last night's conversation, is currently not my BF). I have avoided for nearly 2 weeks asking him where we stand or what the situation is. Last night, I cracked.

His answers, paraphrased: He can't tell me one way or the other. He has no answer yet. He needs to get through the paper, get through the holidays, and then do some hard thinking. He can't tell me that everything is going to be okay, because that's not how he feels. But he can't tell me it isn't, because that's not how he feels either.

He doesn't want to see me right now because it frustrates him. He doesn't want to push me to do things I don't want to do, and he doesn't want to do things with me that he knows aren't right, but when we're together he has big problems resisting and he's not sure he can deal with that long-term.

The very telling statement: "LL, I had very strong feelings for you, and now I don't know how to express them."

Yep, that's the key word..."HAD".

I asked him if he was pushing me away and wanting me to make the decision. He said he didn't think he was. I told him I felt like he was backing away. He said, "I called, didn't I?" My response, "You were returning my call."

And I am very hurt over last weekend. My own fault, but I thought that because things were close and warm, that it meant we were still a couple. I really let myself be vulnerable and belief that things were on the mend. Nope, didn't mean that. Just meant he invited me over for the weekend.

I suggested maybe I could come over some night and see him this week. He said, "LL, you have to work." And then there are the holidays, and he'll have his kids and I"ll have mine. And now he found out he'll probably have his kids for NY Eve as well. He's got a great way to avoid me until the new year.

Does it sound like to all of you that he's just trying to let things die, or is he thinking and trying to decide.

It's all driving me so nuts that I can't even see straight today. It hurts beyond anything I could imagine. It's hard to end a relationship even when it was a bad one. But this one had nothing but good memories, and everywhere I turn there's another trigger that reminds me of something we did.

And finally, it's my biggest fear coming true--that no guy will have me if I don't put out before marriage.

So I called my pastor a while ago, in tears. He tries so hard to help, but still he's trying to convince me that God can work with me even as a single person, and that while most people do have a desire to be married, it may not be in the cards for some of them. Given that it's been my desire from the time I was a kid, it's very hard to feel that God is calling me to be single. But nothing seems to ever work out the way I've prayed it would.

And I'm angry with God right now for that rule in the bible about no sex. And I'm angry at me for being angry at God, and not being able to just hand my life over to him and be content and peaceful.

But right now all I feel is pain and hopelessness and being very alone and overwhelmed. It's like experiencing two years ago all over again, when my marriage blew up over the holidays and my daughter was getting kicked out of her school for truancy all at the same time. It nearly killed me. The only thing that kept me going was the hope that God was opening a door for me to have a new chance at that Christian marriage I'd always prayed for. Now I think I was just being delusional.

LL

((((LL)))))

I'm glad you're going to the Dr., and to see a counselor. I'm very concerned, that you are writing the same things that you have been writing for the past 5 pages, and I think a counselor can help you. You are hungup on several things, that we've tried 100 different ways to help you with:

- There are more to God's laws than "rules".

- We've suggested that you give BF some space, yet you are still calling him, and pushing him to make a decision.

- You've decided that no man will want you if sex is a boundary, and we've tried to tell you that's hogwash.

Pull Psalms and Proverbs out and read tonight. And the "Physical Limits" chapter in Boundaries in Dating. I finally read that chapter last night!!! It really explains the boundary of sex, and why it's a good one, and why someone who won't respect YOUR choice, and YOUR boundary is a bad prospect for marriage.

hugs,
Faith1

Faith,

I just feel like right now I'm in this pit that I'm never going to get back out of. It's a really scary feeling--what if I feel like this forever?

And I'm trying not to think of him, but everywhere I turn theres a trigger. There are probably more triggers for him than there were toward the end of my marriage with my ex, because my ex and I never did much together and he was very hateful. This guy has been so sweet.

*When I put my splint on my wrist, I think of him, because I was with him on my b-day weekend when I broke it.

*When I log in to MSN and see things about sports, I think of how much fun it's been watching football with him, and how wonderful our weekend jaunt to Lincoln was, where he even lined the bed with rose petals.

*When I hear certain songs on the radio, or listen to one of my Christian CD's, I think of him, because he used to sing along.

*When I think of Christmas, I think of him and the fact that I'm not going to get to spend the holidays with the man I love.

*When I think of next spring, and look forward to spring break--we were originally going to plan a trip to Las Vegas.

*I can't even look in my closet sometimes without thinking of certain outfits that remind me of certain dates with him.

*And when I'm on the computer, which I am pretty much all day for work, it's very hard not to want to look for that hotmail message from him.

*And then there's just this--what do I do with myself on weekends now? I'm so used to being with him, watching movies, hanging with his family, cuddling, and doing all the other stuff we were doing, and falling asleep in his arms at night.

It hurts like h*ll!

I am trying to give him space. I just feel like each time we do talk about "us" (or the lack of "us"), the news is worse and worse, and he's sounding closer and closer to giving up. Two or three weeks ago he was still willing to try. Now he sounds very unsure of that, and given that he's refusing to see me, that sort of tells the story, I think.

I do own "Boundaries in Dating" and have read the Physical Limits chapter several times. Yes, I agree it does have some very good reasons for waiting in there, along with the biblical ones.

I hate depression! I wish I didn't feel like this. I wish I could at least think clearly, and not obcess over things. I try not to. I pray for help. But unlike someone who is addicted to alcohol, for instance, who can at least physically avoid the stuff, I carry this in my brain.

And as I told my pastor tonight, originally I was just thinking my "singleness" would be temporary. But now, it's really feeling overwhelmingly like it will be permanent.

Let's see, who would want:

* Woman with a past--a rather sordid one at that.
* Woman with a very difficult 16 1/2 yr old daughter.
* Woman who won't "put out" before marriage.
* Woman who must have a man with strong Christian beliefs.
* Woman who is 5'9" barefoot. (That was an issue when dating, with the guys who thought they were 5'10" but couldn't have been over 5'7", because I wear heels frequently.)

(Notice I didn't put anything in there about my small chest. I still think it could be an issue as well, but at least have found that it didn't significantly hamper my dating life.)

I know I should be fine just being single forever. God says he's all I need. But darn, it's a depressing thought to imagine never again having a man to come home to at night, to converse with, to cuddle with, to be physical with, and to fall asleep next to at night and wake up next to in the morning.

LL

(((((LL)))))

You won't feel like this forever hunny. I know it's hard to think of those memories, and expectations (hopes) for the plans you were making... embrace them... enjoy them for the season that you had them... and noone can predict the future... noone knows what tomorrow will bring... k? But think of those fun times, and smile! Because they WERE good times! You wouldn't trade them in, would you? Be thankful for them.

Do not worry about the future. Take care of YOU... TONIGHT!!!

Everyone has a past, it's part of who we are today.

She's 16 - in a couple of years she'll either not be difficult anymore, or at least living on her own.

Neither of those are bad things. When you find the the man with strong Christian beliefs, not having sex before you are married won't be a problem.

What part of that is bad?


My point is this, we all have things in our lives that are not necessarily what we would want them to be. However, these things will only keep you from having the life that you want if you allow them to. None of those things in your list equate with a life of solitude and celibacy.

(((((((((((((Lordslady)))))))))))

My prayers are with you.

(((LL))), I can so relate to those horrid feelings you are experiencing. Hang in there b/c it will get better.

I'm proud of you for reaching out to your Pastor and looking into renewing your meds.

I'm so sorry things are going poorly, but keep praying and always trust that the Lord is looking out for you and know things do really happen for a reason.

Be good to yourself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

DW

Really enough already - time to get off of the pity train.... You are never gonna feel better if you keep dwelling on the what ifs - or the bad things...... Really - I mean geez if I listed the stuff that I don't think are good about me or my life - I to would be depressed but my gosh - enough... straighten up and toughen up... and stop I repeat stop feeling sorry for yourself - If your relationship is over.. then who cares who needs him - There will be someone else - I mean really you didn't even think you would get one man.....

LL,
I am a believing, practicing Christian. It is my life. I have been divorced 3 years and I have dated several guys who usually break up with me because I'm "just too nice." Meaning...i don't put out. I know that they are not the one. Isn't your divorce pretty recent? If it is, girl, you still need to be healing. You don't need a man in your life to make you complete, or happy right now. You need to rest in the Lord....let him fulfill your needs right now. If you are indeed sincere about your faith, let God take the controls right now....let the Spirit lead you to where you need to go. This recent BF of yours may not be "the one" for you. Don't obsess over that....guess what, LL, there are many, many more out there!!!!! Tons!!!! But God may not bring the right one into your life right now if he feels it's not the right time. You are going to have to let go, and let God. He WILL work in your life, if you will allow him to. I know, I know it is so easy for me to say this, but GET IN THE WORD, and find rest in Him. Read the Psalms over and over. It is the best counsel I have ever had. God will bring you a GODLY man when his time is right, and it is always perfect. LL, get on an antidepressant, and get in His Word. Pray, and get others to pray over you. I personally will wait the rest of my life if I have to for God to bring me the right man, before I go out and find the "wrong" man. It is a dry season for me right now, and yes, I get down about it. But I stay busy with other things, and I keep trusting.
If you ever wish to email me, I will happy to write back:
khil0401@hotmail.com
Take care, LL>
Kay

All of you,

I am trying so hard not to be depressed. First problem is that I shouldn't have gone off my A/D's back a couple months ago. I was doing very well and decided I could. And yes, had the "sex issue" not come up, I'd have been fine. But it did come up, and I wasn't on A/D's, and I have a history of certain things throwing me into clinical depression and anxiety (I can thank my genetics from my mom for that--she takes Paxil continually), and now here I am. I can only describe it as feeling like I am a deep pit that I can't see out of. It is the most empty, painful, sad, anxious, feeling of dispair sometimes. It makes it very hard to function. I have practically cried out for help from my pastors--hoping there was something they or their wives or someone in the church could do just to support me. But no one calls. I finally had to call my pastor. He prayed for me. He says he's going to, after the first of the year, check to see what other singles groups there might be out there that might be appropriate for me. Or, he mentioned trying to get 5-6 people like myself together to do bible studies. But I'm not sure that's what I need. And I'm not holding my breath for it to materialize. He is very busy in other areas and things tend to not materialize--sort of like the phone calls that were supposed to come to me, and some bible verses they promised to put together so that I could read them and memorize them when I needed to change my way of thinking.

I did go to the Dr. today. He told me it will probably take a good 2-3 more weeks now that I'm at 20mg of Lexapro (as of 2 days ago I've upped my dose to that point) for my moods to sort of level out. And even then, that won't solve the problem. It may only make it a little easier to think rationally. He also prescribed me some more Xanax for the next month to help me remain more calm and "tranquil" while my A/D's are trying to work.

But...he's just another in a long line of people who confirm that despite what all women tell me, men have NO intention of waiting on sex, Christian or not. I talked to him about the whole reason I've hit this wall of depression, and when I got to the part about the sex issue and my feelings of not being able to find a man my age who will wait, he totally agrees. He said, "LL, maybe if you were 20, but at 40, men have had sex, and they're going to want to try out the merchandise at this point. It's unlikely that you'll find someone who will wait at your age." And I can't go back on my beliefs.

So there...alone....forever. And Kay, I know you're trying to make me feel better, but you are experiencing exactly what I'm afraid of. That no man, no matter how "christian" they say they are, will wait. And it's just SO disheartining.

As for how long I've been DV, yes, the DV was final just over a year ago. But my ex moved out two years ago this coming February, so I've actually been alone for almost 2 years.

And finally, I talked to my non-BF last night--another bad conversation. We were at each other's throats by the end. He does share my beliefs on what saves a person. And he does agree that the bible says sex outside marriage is wrong. But our disagreement is in the form of "punishment" that we will receive for going against God on it.

And he admitted that he has big issues with my DD and how she treats me, and that right now he's not willing to have his kids and my daughter interact. That's why he prefers I come over his way...he said that had been going wonderfully.

He also said that 50% of the time he is angry with himself for making another "dumb" decision to get into a distance relationship and he sees no way of this working, because he thinks living apart and being married for a month is crazy, let alone trying to do it for a year or two.

And then the other 50% of the time he thinks to himself that he's found this great gal who he has very strong feelings for and it seems stupid to let this sex issue get in the way. But it is a big issue.

So, there are no answers. There are no promises of seeing me. There is just nothing but tension and disappointment. And I feel like I'm in a hole I can't crawl out of.

And Christmas is in a week, my daughter is being totally hateful and demanding and just running her own life, and being spiteful in front of her friends when she's with me. She's walking all over me, using all kinds of language I don't approve of, making her general mess of the house, and coming and going as she pleases, and I can't seem to stop that either, because I can't kick her out by law. And her dad is no help.

And I have entirely too much going on at work. I need to be working at 150% of my mental capacity right now, and I can barely manage 50%.

I don't know how to keep going. I'm getting angry and resentful, and it's starting to be directed at God, and that's a very scary thing for me. I don't want to be mad at God. I never have been before.

LL

Wow, LL.
I don't think you understood AT ALL what I was trying to say in my post. I think you need to go back and reread it.
KK

“””I know you're trying to make me feel better, but you are experiencing exactly what I'm afraid of. That no man, no matter how "Christian" they say they are, will wait. And it's just SO disheartening.”””

BULLbutter and I’m frankly sick and tired of hearing that. You’ve had guys on this board tell you they would, what that ain’t good enough? First things first and that is you have to respect yourself before anyone else will respect you, do you realize what that means at a deeper level? At a deeper level it means that once you gain love and respect for yourself then you’ll choose partners wisely, ones who love and respect you. Right now you don’t respect and love yourself, thus you chose someone who isn’t capable of doing that either.

”””And finally, I talked to my non-BF last night--another bad conversation. We were at each other's throats by the end. He does share my beliefs on what saves a person. And he does agree that the bible says sex outside marriage is wrong. But our disagreement is in the form of "punishment" that we will receive for going against God on it.”””

What happened to giving him time and space? Calling him everyday or every other day and obsessing of relationship issues is not offering space. So he believes it’s wrong, so he either chooses to live in sin or apart from it, so what is your choice?

”””And he admitted that he has big issues with my DD and how she treats me, and that right now he's not willing to have his kids and my daughter interact.”””

That’s helpful and supportive of him.

“””That's why he prefers I come over his way...he said that had been going wonderfully.”””

That and other reasons…..

”””She's walking all over me, using all kinds of language I don't approve of, making her general mess of the house, and coming and going as she pleases, and I can't seem to stop that either, because I can't kick her out by law.”””

So the only solution is kicking her out? ****** no, set boundaries and enforce them… Kids being loud at night, tell them to leave. She’s only walking where you let her.

Lordslady.... I think you need to stay on the antidepressants there is nothing wrong with taking them especially if they help you... I guess I just get aggravated because well - truly you cannot be with someone else until you accept yourself - and are happy with yourself... You need to concentrate on You and your daughter... You do not need a man to make you happier.. Just think if he wasnt' in your life you wouldn't be dealing with all of that crap on top of - your daughter .. Concentrate on her.. Make boundaries - enforce them.... She should be your top priority...

I think there's some revisionist history going on here. As I recall, lordslady, your earlier fears (before you put up your online profile) were almost exactly the same as they are now: that you would never be married again. You didn't think anyone would even want to date you.

As you discovered, you had no real trouble getting a date; the problem was finding a date who would respect your stated boundaries. Now, while I completely agree with those who say that it is your responsibility to enforce your boundaries, I vehemently disagree with those who believe it is acceptable for a man to invade those boundaries if you should fail to enforce them.

But I have a hypothesis: the kind of man who will treat you with appropriate honor and respect is not likely to want to pursue a relationship with you. Why? Because he will want an equal partner.

I have a friend. She is extremely beautiful - certainly one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. She has a delightfully charming manner, and is enormously talented. I have a sizeable crush on her and I love her dearly. But I have no interest in dating her. The fact is, she is not very mature, and while I am able and willing to take on the role of spiritual leader, I don't want another marriage in which I'm forced to take on a paternalistic role.

Do you get the point?

If this is discouraging, I'm sorry; but it's not meant to be so. What I am trying to say is that I don't think it's helping you to focus on whether there is any chance you will ever be married again; rather, I think you would do well to concentrate on becoming the best and healthiest you that you can be. I am not saying that you should reconcile yourself to "just being single forever." Rather, I think you should try to operate on the principle that when you are secure enough in yourself and in God, He will then bring the right man into your life. Personally, I believe He will do exactly that, because I believe that if God has made you to be the sort of person who craves that sort of connection, He intends to fulfill His creation.

And if that doesn't happen, then the worst result is that you have become a whole person in yourself and in God. Not so terrible, really.

AloneInTx addressed this admirably, I think. Your obstacles are laughably minor - or would be, if you didn't take them so seriously yourself. Not a single one of those obstacles would be a deterrent to me - and believe me, I am under no illusion that I'm 5'10".

I guess you're just going to have to choose whom you will believe. I don't know what I've ever said to call my credibility into question, but I will charitably assume that you believe my "lies" to be rooted in self-delusion rather than deliberate deception.

I really wish I had some useful advice to proffer on the daughter situation, but I'm afraid that's outside my imagined purview. However, I tend to agree with Bill on this one: you could have broken up the party yourself when they ignored your initial admonition - and if they still didn't listen, you could have called the cops yourself instead of expecting one of your neighbors to do it. Is it possible that the reason you did nothing effectual is that you have so thoroughly convinced yourself that you are powerless, it does not even occur to you to consider what your options really are?

I understand that your options with your daughter are severely limited; but it is hard for me to believe that there aren't sources of help you could turn to, if you were determined enough to use them. You seem to have such a brief opportunity (1-1/2 years) to have any positive influence on your daughter, that I wonder at your priorities. I could almost understand it if you seemed to be using dating relationships as an escape from your problems with your daughter, but instead you merely seem to have exchanged one intractable problem for another.

Kay,

I've reread your post (and the others) several times. I do understand that you're trying to tell me that if this guy doesn't want to wait for sex, then he's not the guy God has for me. I do mostly read Psalms when I'm down--some to remind me of God's protection, and some to remind me that David was pretty down, too, at times. And I try to have hope that God WILL bring me the man I need, but there are just so many things (people) who seem to dash that hope and being a pessimistic sort, I can't seem to see to get past that. I know it's wrong to say this, but I truly do desire more than just about any other earthly thing, to be in a Christ-centered marriage with a man who loves me and appreciates me for who I am. We all have dreams. Mine isn't career, or fame, or fortune. It's pretty simple, it would seem. But yet it feels so unattainable.

LH,

Yes, the guy and I have still been talking nightly. Most of the time I'm still the one calling him, though he has called me a couple of those times. I feel like if I don't call, then he'll be angry because we've never gone a night without talking--it's just sort of expected. But maybe it's not anymore. I've asked him if I should not call so much and he'll say, "Why?", and so I just drop it.

I don't even think space is a fix at this point. My gut (again, which always thinks the worst) says it's pretty much dead in the water. He has his ideas and it would seem he won't give an inch. No distance marriage, no moving up a date, but also obviously not willing to try to maintain self-control and step things down a notch as evidenced by his putting us "on hold" and not wanting to see me right now. And I guess the daughter thing hurts too, though it would be hard for anyone to deal with my daughter. I do see selfishness--someone who is only willing to do things his way. And my paranoia has even gotten me thinking that maybe he doesn't really love me as a person at all, but all he loves is my body, and if he can't have it, he has nothing to be in a "relationship" with me for.

So WHY CAN'T I STOP LOVING HIM AND LET GO ? Why does it hurt so much? Why do I feel like I'll never feel normal again? Why am I so afraid to let go?

I'm taking my Xanax, so I'm a more tranquil depressed person today, but still really struggling with what to do next, and how to manage the pain of whatever happens. I have zero Christmas spirit and it's a week away.

Last night I suggested to Mr. Guy that because of our current status, maybe it would be best if we didn't worry about getting Christmas gifts for each other. He agreed that sounded good--said he had enough to worry about with his kids who had provided no ideas and figured I didn't really have the money to be buying bunches either. But his answer was so fast that I read into it that he's just plain DONE with me. Why can't he just say so?

Maw,

My daughter is a priority. Enforcing boundaries is difficult, though, as she's rarely home until very late at night and by then I'm ready to go to bed. Dating has probably been sort of the bright spot in my life because it gave me something to look forward to when I needed to relax and feel cared for, to re-energize to deal with my DD again. And yes, now that it's in turmoil, it's making everything doubly difficult.

It's sort of like when work is really stressful, you hope your home life is more calm so that it offsets it. Right now, work is stressful, and when I come home my daughter is stressful and my home life is stressful because I have both kids there at the moment making a wreck of my house. So I would turn to my partner as a bit of calm in the midst of the storm or at least as a supportive shoulder, but my love live is in shambles because I'm losing the man I love. I'm trying to turn to God to replenish myself but when one has managed to get to the clinical depression point, there's a lot of work to do to get back out of that hole, even when things are good. I'm reaching out to my church--not getting a lot there. I know I sound whiny, but it really is a struggle. I just feel like each way I turn, I get hammered.

GDP,

Truly, I DO believe you mean what you say and that you are one of those guys who plans to wait until marriage. But I need someone like that HERE, in the midwest, in Iowa. I think guys like you are truly a rarity.

And okay, so I found dates. I could probably find some more if I had to go back on Match. But if they're not willing to wait for sex, it's not even worth dating. And how do I know? Do I put it in my profile next time? "If you can't wait for sex until marriage, don't ask me out." I searched for only "Christian" dates when I dated on there last time.


Again, send me someone to Iowa who feels that way...please!

As for my daughter, why I didn't think to call the cops myself I'm not sure. I think I was so exhausted and trying to sleep that I wasn't even thinking clearly. I just kept coming down in my flannel PJ's and standing there looking angry and telling them to keep it down and then going back upstairs and flopping down in bed again. Yes, I do feel powerless when it comes to her.

I don't know where to turn. Turning her over to the state is not an option. Turning her over to her alcoholic father is also not an option. The law no longer requires her to go to school, but they do require me to provide food, clothing, and a safe home for her to live in. So all I've been able to do is set the "no smoking in the house, no drinking on property, and no strange boys in your bed" rules. I took away her cell phone. I fund nothing for her as far as recreation (you'd think her friends would get tired of paying her way). But I can stand there until I'm blue in the face and demand she doesn't talk a certain way, or that she cleans up after herself, and it will never happen. She just doesn't get it. And I don't know how to force her to do it. There's really nothing else I can take away of any value and I can't keep her from going places because she leaves while I'm still at work.

The sad thing is that I was looking at some old movies of the kids a couple nights ago trying to keep my mind off other things. She was such a sweet, caring little thing. But she's always struggled with being different--beating to her own drum. It breaks my heart to see her do what she's doing to herself and really not know anything I can do that will turn her around.

See, this is where in LL's fantasy world, she'd be able to look forward to going home tonight to her Christian husband who is also supportive of her parenting, offering advice, etc., and she'd arrive home and fall into his arms and he'd hold her and say, "I know it's tough, but I love you and I'm here for you to do whatever I can, even if that's just listen and hold you."

LL