Lost, if there is a good reason to knock on the door and you can control yourself, then by all means do it. But knocking on a door is not a lovebuster. A lovebuster is anything that is on that list I gave you.

I guess if he comes here, you will have to decide what to do.

My opinion: Don't go over to the apartment unless and until you get your emotions under control and you can operate from a position of strength. You will just lose it if you go over there now.

Don't put up a picture of you in there apartment. It will just reinforce to WH that he's got two women fighting for him and that's exactly what he wants. Don't give it to him. That's high school cr*p.

And if WH finds this site, invite him to read through it as it has excellent advice on saving a marriage and creating a better one.
Mulan

Hi Lost and Confused,
Just checking on how you were doing. I am not online regularly, like before.

You have been getting some great advice from veteran, Melody.

I hope your emotions are settling down some by now. I was a nervous wreck, after d day. I came so close to having a nervous break down.
But my real recovery came when I was able to say to myself, I will be ok, if our marriage doesn't make it.

Fear, is the number one enemy right now.

Fear, is what will keep you from what you desire, a recovered marriage.

When you give your fear up, and gain the perspective of life will go on, with our without your ws, it is easier to let go, and do the work that has to be done.

Tears, pleaing, and clinging behavior, only gets the ws to pity you.

You do not want pity. Pity doesn't bring ws back.

You want to radiate self confidence, and attract your ws back through, words, actions and a sense of independence.
A seasoned veteran suggested the following to help bring the w/s back around.

You want to show that while your husband is living a life, you, too, are living yours.

You are living yours by leading him to believe you are calling other people, getting calls from other people, considering taking cruises or vacations. You do all of this, indiscreetly, without saying a word.

You do it by,
leaving brochures around the house such as adventure vacations, cruises, clubs etc.,to be accidently viewed by w/s when he comes over. Also, having a friend "accidently call" while w/s is there, and you reacting secretively, excusing yourself, to take the call in the other room. When he asks who it was, you sweetly say,"oh nobody."
Hang a calendar on the wall with important dates circled, saying, dinner and time. Or lunch etc. You get the drift.

It is hard work, but definately, worrth it.


Sincerely,
K.D's Heartbreak

Thank you all for your wonderful help and support. I kind of figured some stuff out last night and yesterday with my counselor. I will have to tell you later. I am running late! I actually slept last night. Now...that is progress.

Well, he came over yesterday to talk about financial stuff. It did not go very well since I want to get everything as individual. I told him I would look into it.

I told him that he had spent $860 over the past week by himself and I had spent $60 that I had withdrawn a couple weeks ago to float me. I told him that he had been going out almost every night and took the OW to dinner on Monday and that it wasn't the going out that I saw as a problem it was the company he keeps.....oops. In reference to the dinner I asked, I know, bad me and I got the hmmmm, I can't remember response, and then oh yeah I guess I did...Whatever. I told him I did not want the joint account because things happen and I do not want to fight with him about money on top of everything else. I told him I wanted to close it tomorrow and then move the bills to other accounts. He flipped, very mad. He said it would take at least a month to get the account closed because he just submitted his direct deposit request to put 150 in the joint checking and the rest in his savings and that takes time to change and then he has to change it again. I told him that we have bills going to the account and they need to be moved.

I told him that I was sorry and that it was his choice to make me live like a single woman and that I had to look out for my financial interests.

He got very mad when I insisted he give me back the mail key. Threw it and my parent's key across the room.

He said it really hurt him that I changed the locks because I had said the door was always open. I told him that I was sorry, but he moved out and has his own place and that this is my house. I told him I had trust issues and that when you lose trust in someone that person has to earn it back and I didn't feel like his actions were showing any effort to do so.

I told him that this was my time and that I was using it to get my head together and decide what I wanted. I encouraged him to go to counselling. He said he wanted to do that so he could have what I was getting not phrased well on my part, basically someone to help organize his head.

I told him that I hoped he would go to counselling and that in a few months maybe we could start going together. I told him with everything that had happened over the last couple of months that I am looking at what I want. I told him that I still wanted to save our marriage, but that in a few months it may be me who isn't so sure and we would have to see at that time. I just didn't know.

We packed up more of his stuff. When he was leaving I said that I would look into splitting the health club and the insurance and if he could work on getting that school bill off the joint account and changing his direct deposit to another account so we can get that closed as soon as possible. He flipped again. Started yelling that "see everything is on my time table. Everything has to be done within my time constraints. That is what he is talking about, blah blah" I asked what he was talking about that I had already conceded to his point that we could not close it tomorrow. If it was within my time constraints it would be. I just wanted it closed as soon as we can get it closed.

I said I was sorry that I wasn't trying to piss him off. He said I was doing a good job. So he left on a bad note and was pissed. Oh well.

well Lost, he is pissed because he is having to FEEL the REALITY of his choices. He is having to get off of the fence and choose a side right now. It was so much easier for him when you were enabling him. He could see ow but still have the convenience of joint accounts, etc... Boy, those ws sure don't like to be inconvenienced..... let him stew a bit.

Mine was pissed at me too the other day. In our sep papers he is to pay 100% of all child care because I am in school and by law because he makes so much more than I do. Technically, if, when I am done school he still makes more than me by a sig amount he will STILL have to pay 100%. well, I am getting a part time job so I can get out there more and have some extra cash and he was fuming because he says he cannot give me any more money, cannot afford to pay extra childcare. I was nice and said I was willing to work with him on it, maybe pay half if I can... He was saying he was going to pay none of it. To which I had to gently remind him he signed a legal document stating he has to pay ALL OF IT. I said if money is so tight he could sell 2 of the 3 vehicles he has (a car, a truck, a motorcycle) or get a second job. I also mentioned how I know he is paying out LESs than when he lived here and he always had extra money here. (I know darn well he is living for free at ow's, crying poverty to her) he forgets after 10 years together I know him pretty well and know how he "cries poverty" but probably has a pretty darn good stash in the bank. so ya, he was pretty mad. But, I just said, this is life and your reality now and you chose it, not me.

He'll get over it. Hey, it's the reality of your and my h's sitch right now. Reality bites doesn't it! More so for them than us. we are taking control and taking a stand. and to protect us that is ok. mlhb

This is something that my WH also tells me. It is amazing how you can marry an individual with his own thought processes, but once they are WS, they all just seem to say the exact same things.

Sorry you are dealing with this.

I emailed him this morning because he still needs to get his computer desk and monitor. I know he needs to get these things because it is one of the only things he can do when he is at his apartment until he gets his tools and work bench. Unfortunately, I am going out to dinner tonight so I won't be able to help him and I have to leave by 615. So, I am sure that my time constraints will be a problem again. Sorry, but I have to get out and have a life too. I am so frustrated and just so sad.

This is why Plan B can be so good, you remove yourself from all of their drama and begin to focus on you and whay you want and need NOT THEM. It also shows your beginning to move on, you are confident, involved, active, etc. which are very attractive items to the opposite sex.

Keep it up, he will get madder, they all do. It is part of the reality of the situation that they are responsible for.
Eventually he will begin to jump off the fence, either back in to work on the marriage or off towards divorce.

Nature: this is off topic but I love your saying at the end of your posts... yes, I now too know I will be in heaven after this life! I think we have earned it!

Lost: we are here for ya. Good for you on the going out to dinner. You are doing all the right things it sounds like... keep posting... mlhb

Okay, still cleaning last night and this morning. Right now I am at work. I am going out to dinner tonight with some friends. WH is coming over to get desk between 5-530. I will be very dressed up for dinner. Sexy suit. Doing my hair. ****Any other suggestions? Maybe my nails if I have time? He is bringing someone to help him move stuff since I can't help because of dinner suit.

I will be working all Christmas weekend for extra money. I certainly need it.

Okay, so I went to dinner last night with friends. That was fine. Dressed very nice when WH showed. Other friends there too, didn't really talk at all.

Can I ask him over for dinner? I doubt he would come if I asked. I kind of don't want him to anyway. I asked him to Christmas, but I am quite sure he will not come.

How do I get any access to him? He is literally going out with her every night. This is making me more and more angry.

I am so tired and frustrated.

The OW is going out of town Christmas day to NY day.

This just goes on and on. He does not care what he is doing to me. He thinks I will just sit and wait. I am the back up plan. I am very rapidly giving up. I want a man how wants to be with me not one who "has" to be with me. He does not want me.

So he called me today and told me that he and his mom would be coming to Christmas dinner at my parents.

I had invited him last week and told him that it would mean a lot to me for him to come. He is coming.

My parents are so devastated. Especially my dad. He is so sad and betrayed. He has always thought as Troy as his son. My dad is just devastated by this and I feel so horrible. With everything going on with my Dad's health now I am starting to worry for him. They are very supportive, but so hurt.

How am I going to deal? I must pretend that everything is okay. My brother and SIL do not know. I hope I can do that. I am just so sad. This may be the last holiday we spend together and I want it to be positive.

*******How can I pretend that everything is okay at Christmas with him there when I am so angry? I am just so angry. I feel like I am going to explode.

I just bought new car insurance. It went up $300 without the multicar discount. He was not anticipating that one. He is going to be furious that I did not leave the cars together. HOnestly I am concerned he will not be able to pay his bills on time and I cannot afford for my insurance to lapse. Hopefully he will understand that I am just protecting myself, but I doubt it.

Please help me out with the above question. I am so furious. How can I control this? strategies? I do not want to ruin Christmas for everyone.

Well Lost I am trying to think here... I give your parents credit, I am sure it will be hard for them not to want to have a talk with your h. although mine always stayed out of it too. If you want to save your marriage my guess is you would Plan A to death that dinner. Look your best, show how great you are, make it a fun and enjoyable dinner. You will love bust all over the place if you are a b*tch at the dinner. I know I am learning that one the hard way. It is only within the past month that I have started to be "nice" and easy to get along with, etc. It does make seeing and dealing with wh much easier. In fact, mine will be here tomorrow morning to exchange gifts with the kids. It won't be easy. I am angry and hurt and all that stuff too.

Go into this dinner with a plan. You will be all you can be and you will be the bigger person. You can make this be an ok dinner. If you feel emotional go to the bathroom and compose yourself and then come back. Just enjoy your family time and do the best you can with h. I feel your pain, I do. It amazes me he will face your parents knowing they know. Mine would be too coward to do that. He won't face mine right now. I very much so relate to a lot of your story sweetie. I just have kids, only difference. Keep your chin up, a lot of us here are just trying to get through this darn holiday in one emotional piece. I am trying to stay focussed on what the true meaning of it is.... hugs, mlhb

I am really having a problem. Everyday I become more focused on me. The anger that is inside is so huge. She stayed all night with him last night. I am just so angry. I do not see anything here to save. His core values are gone. He is such a liar. OMG, I just think I am done. I just want him to get to couselling for himself now because he is destroying himself, but I am finished

Oh Lost, if I lived near you I would come over, have ya put on some coffee and we could talk. I know exactly how you feel. Let me fill you in on my story...

h and I married in 96 after a too quick courtship. we met in jan, and were married by sept and I was preg for twins in oct! H has a lot of pent of childhood confusion and anger which reared it's ugly head slowly in our marriage. With kids and being young and married so fast the stresses showed. Neither one of us knew anything about meeting needs and by 2001 I was ready for a separation. It blindsided h. But the first 4 or 5 years of m and no needs being met set me up for an EA which I big time had. Did not know that is what it was at the time.

We separated and it devastated h. But this was the beginning of the end. I wish so badly we had had this site then. I was in such a fog I cannot even tell you. I wanted nothing to hear of our marriage working out. I swayed back and forth. H wanted to come home and part of me wanted him to but I wanted the changes to be immediate. As soon as he moved home I wanted instant improvement and when I didn't get it I wanted him to leave again. I was still in fog land. when we sep again that was it. H was very angry and hurt and things were NEVER the same. All the anger he had from childhood piled with the anger he has at me and there ya go. The scene was set for his PA's.

Fast forward to now.... 2 years after he came home I found out of all the PA's he had during that time. One being with the ow he is with now. He swore to me he wanted nothing more to do with her but not 2 weeks after he moved out she moved out of her marital home I saw his car at her apt and I was feeling everything you are feeling now. The anger, the hurt, the loss. Oh yes, I felt it. And I vented it to him too which may or may not have been the right thing to do. But I was so angry. It has only been in the past month or two that I can say SOME of the anger is subsiding. I have had to stay focussed on me and my kids and my future. I have had to stop obssessing about h and ow. It is not always easy. It didn't help that ow's stbxh and I got to be real close friends and he is a cop so he knew every move they made and felt the need to tell me. I had to tell him finally to stop. Ignorance is bliss I will tell you that.

This christmas has been hard. It is our first apart and I cannot help but think "what are they doing?" but I keep stopping myself as soon as I start. Cannot drive myself crazy like that. I cannot control him or her. I must just be the best I can be for me and my kids. I must take care of me and move on. I must protect us. H may never come back, I don't know. I am not actively out there looking for anyone else. I know some people who as soon as they break up they are with someone else. I am not like that. I cannot just move on after 10 years with someone.

Lost, just breathe, cry if you need to, vent here. Choose your words with your wh wisely. Gosh, I just know how it feels and I am so sorry any of us have to go through this. didn't we all get married expecting a forever? Keep yourself and your mind as busy as you can. down time is not good. My h leaves for Iraq for 4 months next month and I hate to say it but I cannot wait. It will give my mind a rest. He won't be with her, she will be alone. I will be able to think of other things. Keep hanging in there. We all can relate. mlhb

mlhb and co,

Yeah, why does this have to be so hard? I got my confirmation last night. She was at his apartment all night. That was what I needed to know. I was okay. I knew anyway.

That is not the problem. He called today and asked if I wanted to check out the new apt. I said sure, but went home to change first because I was going out. I got there and he looked really bad. Eyes kind of puffy, exhausted. He said I looked nice. He asked if it was okay to ask who I was going out with. I said I was going to Chris' house. Mutual friend 60's santa man who throws a Christmas eve party every year. He looked relieved.

His apt is nice, but very small. He has obviously been working hard to organize it. With help I am sure. My heart is breaking for him. I know this was his choice and he did this, but why? No I do not want a man who stays with me because he has too or convenience, but he really looked so sad, tired and beaten.

We talked for a while and it was very awkward. We tried to keep it light, but it was hard. Then we started talking about his work and it was better. He loves talking about work. He loves his job.

I am so very sad. Why did he destroy our lives? In the end, he has destroyed himself more than me. I say that because I have support. His only support is the OW. God I am so afraid for him. He truly needs help. I hope he gets it. Part of me wants to call him because I want to let him know I am here, but I am not really. I only want him to be okay now. I just do not think we can ever get past this. There is too much and I am too angry and so is he. The ugliness and the lies a and the cruelty. Where is the beautiful man I fell in love with 13 years ago.

Despite my anger and hurt, all I wanted to do today is hold him and make his pain go away. It is so unfair. I could barely bring myself to give him a little side hug.

I went to the party and everyone asked where he was. Or many told me how beautiful I looked and one how happy I looked. God I just wanted to run. What do I say?

I am just so worried about him. I am sure he is recognizing at least the financial ramifications of his decisions, but I do not want him back for my money. If he is recognizing other things I do not know. Does he miss me? I don't know. What I know is OW was there all night last night and now he looks physically very bad. He is hyper hygenic and he was quite ruffled. It was 6pm. He had had plenty of time to take a shower or brush his hair. Bags + puffy eyes. wrinkled.

I am so very worried about him, but I am already gone. I think he is depressed, but would not actually say that to his doc. I love him, but after everything how could I forgive? I know, read, but he has to be willing to participate. Also, I just do not know that I am now either. This has been so unbeleivablely ugly. Can;t even post what I am talking about.

Where did he go? Where? I do not understand.

My parents, oh my god they are so devastated. He was their son. They loved him and even not a normal son in law thing, they truly loved him. They would also do anything for him. Period. It is kind of like he died.

How are we going to survive Christmas dinner? Conversation topics....hmmm books reading. Oh yeah surviving an Affair.....next subject please. My sister in law and Bro do not know.

So everyone is frustrated with me because I tell them that he is in such a bad place. Sorry, despite the fact that I feel done, I cannot just turn off my concern for his general well being. I am devastated and completely destoyed, but I will be okay. For him, I am not so sure and I am so terrified for him. The thoughts/dreams will not stop. I do not know how to help him.

He said he was still pursuing counselling. I hope he does so.

your genuine love for this man, real love, is easy to see. how sad that his choice was to throw a love like that away.

my hope is that you make it through this with a new life with or without your H...whatever it is that YOU decide is right for you

best wishes

Any extra input on how I can get through this dinner? He needs to have a good time. I am so worried about him. I do not want to hurt WS today.