I am sorry I was bad. I spent the day up until that point being good and in control. Kept asking him how I could help him with stuff and he just said he needed to do it until the end.

He really got a lot done. I thanked him for all of his help several times. He helped me rearrange the furniture in the computer room and moved the freezer in there for me. It was an early Christmas gift from my parents. What the heck am i going to do with a 14 ft3 freezer?

We packed his truck and then talked. I kept a very calm voice at least. He was very defensive. Oh well. I had to tell him I knew and he still just denyed. I even told him that I was worried about him because some just basic morals had just disappeared. He even denied lying to me?!?

I told him that I wished that he had positive supportive people to talk to. He mentioned our married friend and I said I thought he would be great. Also, counselling, which he once again said he thought everyone was on vacation till the 3rd. I asked him to call anyway.

He told me it hurt him that I was so into getting his stuff out of the house, but he understood because it was a mess and I needed to make the house livable. I am telling you there was s%^t everywhere. He was upset because he does not have room for it all in his little apartment. I am sorry for that, but I have to have room to organize too. I feel really bad. We talked about cheap storage options.

He told me that this type of conversation was not helpful to him and that it was the last thing he needed right now.

I told him I was very angry and very sad and I went back and forth depending on the day/time/situation. The day was just too long. He got there about 11 and stayed until 6. This was my only day off this week. I bought pizza for lunch and sent that and left over turkey and fixings home with him. I am a horrible person.

Lost, can you back out of your insistence that he move his stuff out?

I can now. It was his computer stuff. He uses it for work. I just asked him to go through it an get what he needed and I could throw rest away. It just ended up being a lot. After he put it in his truck he said he only needed 2%. Well, then why not throw it away.

His work room is a different story. I can close the door. He can take what he needs and organize the rest and leave it. You think I should take a truckload of stuff back? It is at least organized now.

I think you did very good in most of your conversation. You were honest about your feelings and you did not allow him to believe that you believe he "read all night" with the OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Good grief, that one is rich!

But I want you to please start shifting your focus now. You MUST focus on attracting him back, Lost. And that means you STOP with the lovebusters and you stop trying to punish him and you do your best to be PLEASANT.

I want you to print this sentence and read it over and over again:

IN EVERY INTERACTION WITH MY H, AM I MORE OR LESS ATTRACTIVE THAN THE OW?

See, everytime you lovebust him you make the OW look attractive and yourself less attractive. Everytime you lovebust him, it gives him more justification to carry on his affair because he uses it as ammunition to demonize you.

Now, what were the lovebusters?

1. "I even told him that I was worried about him because some just basic morals had just disappeared."

2. I told him that I wished that he had positive supportive people to talk to. Also, counselling, which he once again said he thought everyone was on vacation till the 3rd. I asked him to call anyway.

Moralizing, lecturing or educating him are huge lovebusters. And I will add that counseling is a pure de waste of time for a WS who is in an affair. It is useless so I wouldn't even push it. Counseling will not help him.

That being said, will you concentrate on behaving in ways that will be attractive to him? What was it about you that caused him to fall in love?

Can you back out of making him take his things out? If he has his things at your house, that makes his move less permanent and he doesn't feel punished. We don't want him to feel punished.

Can you call him up and tell him you have rethought this? That you told him to get his stuff in anger and feel badly about it. Tell him you are sorry for being so mean to him. [try not to gag] Would it cause you great inconvenience for his stuff to stay there?

Edited to add: I don't think you should have him bring a packed truck back though! Just keep his stuff that is already there.

It is not making...except a little today. He wants his workroom. He needs to be able to do his hobbies. He has made a lot of commitments. His silver and metal work are a good outlet. Honestly, he has a lot to do and she may feel a little neglected. What he doesn't want he can leave and I have told him that

About all I could now is tell him to bring back what he doesn't need. Should I do that? He is taking his workroom and that is his choice.

ok, very good! Having him over for his hobbies is a great opportunity for you and I will help you capitalize on it. But first off, we need to understand how best to attract him back.

i think that stopping all lovebusters and being as pleasant as possible will be a good first start. Stay away from relationship talks for now. If he tells you he has been unhappy for "years" just tell him you are sure sorry to hear that. Don't argue with him!

He is only doing what EVERY fogged out WS does by rewriting the history of the marriage - with you starring as Satan, of course - in order to justify thier affair. Trying to reason with him will be FUTILE right now and will only hurt you. You can't reason with an insane person. Got that?

Lost, what are his main complaints about your marriage?

Do you have His Needs, Her Needs?

I am confused now. I thought you made him take his stuff and you said previously: "He told me it hurt him that I was so into getting his stuff out of the house, but he understood because it was a mess and I needed to make the house livable."

confused.........

Melody,

You misunderstood. He wants to pack his workroom into his apartment. I do not know if he would want to leave it here and come over. He is a do it when he wants kind of guy. I also do not want him to have a key and he would not like having to arrange time. If you think offering would be helpful though, I will do it on a trial basis. It would make his current living situation much better and may really p/o ow. I cannot give him a key.

Should I just tell him he can keep his tools here if he wants? The limits would be a problem though.

I truly had no idea it was a truckload that he was going to keep. Honestly. I though there were a few computer drives and a few cables. He threw away 3 trash bags, but filled the truck with the rest.

I was so frustrated and done and stressed. He kept saying how am I going to fit this in my apartment. Yes, I could have let him leave some of it. Yes, I was a little mean, but I am reeling from the OW night over thing.

I can tell him he can bring it back. If we clean out the other closet it can be organized in there.

He wants to have his workroom in his apartment. He enjoys his workroom. I could offer that it can stay here, but limits would have to be set and he will not like that.

Suggestions?

What limits? And why can't you give him a key?

I do not have the book yet. I will be getting it soon. It is on my list. I believe I know a lot of his needs. The complaints in the marriage are continuously contradictory and I am confused about a lot.


Part of the problem is he says he is not sexually attracted to me. This has been a problem for years. At 300 pounds and at 140 now. Sex is one of my needs, but it has never really been a big one of his.

Conversation is a need for him and me. Recreation is also a need for us both. Affection is a need for us both. Everything is so weird. Too much not enough.....argh

Lost, tell me why he fell in love with you. What needs is the OW meeting?

Did he feel respected as a man by you?


What does this mean? Did you dismiss his complaints because you found them confusing? What were they?

Because he is a big frigging liar! Mainly because I am mad. Also, I do not necessarily want to walk in and find him there when I have had a day from ******. Also, if he is furious with me. He scares me. I do not know if I will be enraging him anytime soon and it is nice to feel safe. It is kind of the only thing that I am okay with now. I jsut don't want him to be able to just come in. I do not know if I can do that..

I just don't feel safe. I wish I could, but I cannot feel safe if he has a key

Do you want him home?

I mean if you don't feel safe, is him coming home a good idea?

Lost, I know you are mad, but what do you think he will do? Does he hit you?

I mean, locking him out is alienating him and ruining some good opportunities. If he comes in and works there, it will a) give you a chance to attract him back and b) make the OW jealous.

I fear you are letting your anger interfere with some excellent opportunities here. Acting on your anger will get you nothing and you won't be angry forever. You do realize this, don't you?

moveforward is right. Then why would you even consider taking him back? If you feel this way, just call your attorney tomorrow and be done with it.

Lost, you are making a lot of strategic mistakes right now by acting on your angry emotions. You are undermining many good opportunities here to get your H back. Being angry and vindictive will not get your H back; it will PUSH HIM AWAY RIGHT INTO THE OW'S ARMS. Your anger only helps the OW.

It may make you feel good for about 2 seconds, but after 2 seconds you are left with nothing but more damage and no marriage.

Now, if you want us to help you, you are going to have to knock it off and stop acting on your emotions. Your emotions are your biggest enemy here and they are not helping you. If you want this to work, you are going to have to put your emotions aside [even if you have to take those happy pills what the ****** do they call those?] and allow your reason and logic to run the show here.

End of last year he was complaining because I went out horseback riding too much on Mondays and we could spend time together on Mondays if I was here. So I stopped going. Almost everytime I suggested we do something together, he was doing something in his workroom and couldn't. We only went out a few times.

He tells me that I never let him do anything by himself? He has gone on 3 trips the past 2 years without me. Granted this is new, but before it was financial, but he said he couldn't do anything because I was always planning stuff for "us" He said he wanted to go hiking by himself. I said well, why didn't you just say I am going hiking tomorrow?(Mondays when I was riding would have been a great opportunity) He said because I would have wanted to go. Well sure I would. Why didn't you tell me you wanted time for yourself and wanted to go alone? That would have been fine. He never did.

He said last year I never payed attention to him and throughout our relationship it has always been about me and I was #1 with him and he was tired of being 2.3.4. on my list. He told me that from now on I would be lucky if I was 3,4,5 on his. I did a 180 and tried so hard. I asked him what he needed from me and he said I knew.

I have gone through a lot of changes over the past 4 years. I lost 170 pounds and started back to school full time. He thinks I left him emotionally. I guess I did to a point. I didn't mean to and I didn't realize it. I was on an online support group for my weightloss and he was ignored. My fault, but the changes were so very hard for me. I have been fat my whole life. I was so very selfish and egocentric. He tried so hard to be there for me.

Office I worked at was bought out and my job went away. I was still there, but I am professionally ambitious and was bored out of my mind. Very difficult, once again, all about me.

Started back to school full time. Left him alone again. Still working full time also....changed jobs.

Didn't have time to only do things together alone. We are very involved in a club and I was studying all our time together was with other people.

He continuously has told me of his need for time by himself, but he has not pursued it. When he is in his workroom, that is his time and I respect that. I leave him alone.

He has a great need for admiration. This is a big problem. Let me tell you, this man can do anything. Fix your car, computer, remodel your kitchen and bathroom. I am always telling everyone about that. Maybe I have not told him enough, though I thought I had.

The admiration thing I think has be come and issue. When I was heavy, I always got, " you are so lucky, he is such a wonderful man" and he got, "Wow, why is such a great looking guy with this fat woman? and he said because he loved me for me" Now, at 140 I get, "he is such a lucky man to have such a loving and beautiful wife" and he gets, "wow, you are such a lucky guy to have such a beautiful and loving wife." The tables turned and I think he is really having a rough time with that.

Sorry this is so long, but you asked. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />