Need advice on two different situations:

(A) I went on a 2nd date last Sat w/ a guy that I like and met recently. During the date we stopped by a private party for a new lounge that will be opening and we spent a few minutes with his sister & cousin (I've met them the first night I met him). Well, there were a few tense moments between guy & sister and I thought he was being a little snappy/rude. He then seemed to carry that attitude over into a conversation w/ me, and I just said calmly, "hey, I'm not [Sister's Name], and that tone bothers me." He later came back to me and apologized & I ok & we had a great time - not a big deal. I'm trying to both set better boundaries this time as well as keeping my eyes/ears open for red flags. Now, is this just a brother/sister spat, or is this what he's like when he gets comfortable in a R? Thoughts?

(B) I posted earlier about a friend that I made out with before he left for vacation. Even though I had a sweet call from my friend right before he left on his trip, I haven't heard from him yet and I'm pretty sure that he got back on Sunday. (It's Tuesday night and it's been over a week since he left.) I have no idea what to make of that. The communication was so nice and he said he looked forward to delivering a travel story and pictures in person when he returned, then sent text message saying "see you soon." Guys, please translate, was he just being nice because we're friends? Would he have called by now if he was really interested? I'm confused! Here's the options I see:
Option 1 = don't call/contact and wait for him (even though we have a group dinner w/ other friends next week)
Option 2 = send short email asking how was your trip or something like that & then see what happens
Option 3 = just call him up & say hey, I was surprised by what happened after Rxxxx's party, but it was a pleasant surprise, and it has me thinking about spending more time with you, and I wanted to know how you felt
Option 4 = ??

Thanks

My honest .02 based on what you've presented?

Guy #1--he was snappy on 2nd date to YOU? Nope, I don't think so. I think that was very rude and he apologized only AFTER you called him on his behavior. I dunno, that would bug me big time and sends up a red flag, but that's just me. I'm huge into repsect and respectful behavior.

Guy#2--option 1, most definitely. Again, honestly? When a guy is truly interested, they leave no doubts or questions about their interest....he would have called by now. Chalk it up to a nice make-out night, and leave it at that. I would not expect any more from him. Go to your group dinner and enjoy. I wouldn't even bring it up.

HTH!
DW

#1 - I am somewhat concerned about his rude behavior towards his sister. You need to know what is going on here. Maybe his sister is a great jerk. But still, why take a new date to such and encounter.

#2 - Give him a bit more time. Maybe he is shy? But, you madeout with him before that? He shouldn't be that shy! Give him time, but the next time you are with him, no makeout sessions, just good clean fun. If that drives him away you are better of rid of him.

DW, thanks (btw, what does HTH mean?)

does any of the following alter your conclusions?

#1 admitted he was in a bad mood & he was under the weather but wanted to keep our date

#2 he works very, very long hours, and last time I went out of town, I didn't get back to him for a few days because I was buried in work (we do the same thing, different employers, which is how we met in the first place). Personally, I found the "look forward to delivering a travel story and pictures in person" and "see you soon" communications as an indication of his interest, but maybe I'm reading too much into it or he changed his mind.

Guess I'll just have to get on w/ life and hope to meet #3. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

p.s. May I ask, how did you and your Ex become good friends after the A? thanks

Justin,

I didn't see your post, but wanted to reply because

#1 - I too was uncomfortable with the way he & his sister interacted. I don't have a brother though, and I think it could have been just sibling spat. Overall, he is considerate & kind. (He mentioned the opening and we had time before the band started that we had tickets for, so I suggested we stop by. I thought it would be nice to go for a few minutes.)

#2 - Just made out once, the Sat before his trip (about 10 days ago). Never thought of him like that before, but as I look back, he had been pursuing/flirting with me. He kissed me as I was leaving and I have to say - unbelievable! Don't know how that fits in w/ MB wisdom as prior to that kiss I never thought about him as more than a friend and didn't know he was interested. Maybe it was just a game to him.

Dating is very confusing for me. I haven't done this for 8 years, and I was much younger and in a small town. Now it's NYC and everyone is so ... different. Also, I much prefer the feelings of security/comfort/etc I have in a long-term R to the excitement/butterflies in the initial stages, so dating is painful for me. Some people like the chase/thrill - I don't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If he's going to treat YOU that way on a second date because he's "in a bad mood and under the weather"...how is he going to treat YOU after 6 months or a year of dating when he's "in a bad mood and under the weather"?

Just plain rude if you ask me.

Again, I would not make a snap judgment based upon one incedent. People are to complex for that. But, I would file away the messy events with his sister and see if there are other such things in his life. We all have problems at times with our siblings. That is nothing new. But, if it occurs frequently or with others, then that is a warning sign.

Making out can be a game. I have had a few sessions with female friends when we both know that a LTR is not in the cards for us for some very good reasons. It was fun for both of us and met some needs we both had for physical attention. And we both admited we liked each other as friends and find a certain amount of attraction to the other. It beats the heck out of cruising a bar and getting superficially invovled with some stranger. We both felt better afterwards <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, and nobody gets pregnant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Sort of "Friends with Benefits - Lite".

"hope that helps" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Not really. Maybe I'm being a hard*ss here, but not only did he make you uncomfy w/ his interaction w/ his sis (I mean, what are they in kindergarden? They can't behave in front of company?)he then carried that attitude over to you. Not good. Not good at all. I would never treat a new aquaintance that way no matter how bad I felt or no matter what mood I was in. Did he appear in a bad mood or unwell before the incident w/ his sis? That just reeks of an excuse to me, but what do I know? I wasn't there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Well could be all those reasons...he could be interested, or just plain busy or he could have changed his mind, but, and maybe my exBF spoiled me here, when a man is really interested, you know it. My point before was, do not initiate contact. Just sit back and see what happens.

Good plan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, it was a very healthy dose of forgiveness on my part that was potentiated by my ex's remorse. Also, the OW is not in the picture. If she was, or were he not remorseful, we would NOT be good friends. No way no how. Also, he's a good guy who has alot of personal issues, who chose to deal w/ our marital probs in a very very bad way. He's not a bad person b/c he cheated, it just makes him a very foolish person.

That's exactly what I think.
... It doesn't seem he has control over his bad mood, anger, frustrations, and, for me, that is SO important...


#2 I wouldn't go to analyze his feelings, intentions, plans, at all... This would be (again, for me), simply - he does not keep his word! i.e. run away...
OK, yes, I know, will spend the rest of my life alone, being so strict. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(Option 1, of course... if any at all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Thanks for the advice.

Door #1: I decided to keep the incident in mind and proceed with caution. It was not extreme, but I'll keep an eye out for similar incidents. Since then, we had 2 dates. Each time he has been very kind/respectful and we had fun. So, I can feel deposits into my LBank - the meter is going UP.

Door #2: This is my friend. Well, he's been in touch since he returned from his trip and we have plans to meet for a drink the middle of next week. I cannot read him very well - some of his emails seem to indicate more interest than others (e.g., "hi darling"). I don't know whether a "drink" on a Wednesday is a sign that he's not really interested and wants to tell me in person because we're friends, or a sign that he is taking it slow as soon as we are both in town. Thoughts anyone?

I'm prepared for the "let's just be friends speech," and I'll just reply - ok & smile. (What else can I do?) But if I think he's being a little flirty, then should I let him know that I'm interested in seeing where things might lead? Guys, is that too forward or would you appreciate the honesty when we're friends and both "looking" for a good relationship? (we're late 20s/early 30s)

Door #3 - Well, this is not really a door, more of a brick wall I'm building - again. My ex is back in contact and it really threw me for a loop. First he contacts me wanting to be friendly, I respond w/ caution, then he lays into me & calls me all sorts of foul names (keep in mind I was the BS and even my pastor said I was way too nice and enabled his abuse), so I shut him off again. Then he leaves messages asking if there's any hope for us (um, no, and this is after he just called me foul names - does he forget that easily???). Then he leaves a message implying that he's going to commit suicide (he's implied that before), so I call & say I'm worried & calling police. He responds with more vulgar words & tells me he doesn't love me anymore, it's all my fault, I'm the mean one, he will marry someone great, blah, blah. I guess it just brought back a lot of bad memories and I still can't understand why he was so cruel to me and how he could actively hurt me/have As while at the same time saying he loved & missed me & wanted me to be his wife. I don't want to get back together with him, I just don't understand. I also just feel like there is no justice/karma. It seems like he gets to go on his merry way & his life & job are just fine. Meanwhile I've had to move, find another job (isn't as good as my last one), move to a small, old studio apt, struggle with my health (from stress) & $$, etc and I'm not the one who had the A or abused him. I guess he left scars that will always be there - they were serious wounds and I'll never completely forget. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hey Nev <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Door #1--ok sounding better, but continue to proceed w/ caution and have fun

Door #2--I say, enjoy your drink and don't have an agenda. I would not bring anything further up. Just see how it goes. Continue building on your friendship

Door #3--well, girl, this door needs to be bolted shut, big time. Your ex sounds like he needs serious psychological counseling and you don't need to be any part of his drama. He sounds very unhappy (I mean, does he really sound to you like he's doing ok, going on his merry way? I think not), not to mention VERY unstable and just plain rude! Exit stage left sweetie........

Keep us posted <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

ok, here's my sad update...

#1 - Moving along fine. We had some small issues regarding the time we spent together over NYEve weekend & efforts towards calling me more often, etc. The good news is that I was able to raise those issues in an MB-type way & communicate my needs. He thanked me for the way I handled it/raised the issue and has responded well. So again, my LBank (I like to call it the love-o-meter) is going UP. Still, trying to keep things in perspective. It doesn't seem as amazing/wonderful as when I first met my H, but maybe it's not going to lead to M and maybe I'm just more realistic/cautious about love after all I've been through.

#2 This is bad. We went out for drinks and, once again, had a great time & shared some affection <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I also heard from a mutual friend that he was hoping to spend more time w/ me and was looking for a long-term relationship and thought that I might be a good match for him. Well, he told me the opposite in person. I called him just to say, hey, we're friends so we should be honest with each other about where things are headed, if anywhere. I said that I thought it was worth spending some time to see where things might lead since we already got along well as friends. He replied that he never thought about anything more when it comes to me and he just wanted things to progress "as is" (i.e., friends w/ increasing benefits). I said I appreciated him finally opening up & discussing the issue. That's it.

It's fine that he doesn't want to proceed or even explore a real relationship with me, but as my friend, I think he should have been more upfront/honest and not made me have to drag it out of him. (It was a dragged out conversation and I've opened the subject before.) Also, he was always saying how he isn't into a casual relationship & he's "not that kind of guy" and then he tells me that all he wants is casual and he does that all the time. Huh? For the most part I feel disrespected as a friend due to the initial dishonesty and like I am the worst judge of character.

ok - thoughts? 2x4s? help me learn through this dating process. I'm trying to be honest & respectful & use what I learned from MB in a responsible way, but wow, dating stinks and I'm just not interested in playing games.

update on #2 - He sent me an invite to his Bday party this weekend. I felt like writing back & saying hey, based on your actions/deception I just found out we're not really friends, so why did you send this to me? Of course, I didn't do that. I just replied w/ a friendly note and said I would try to stop by on my way to other plans.

Guys - what is your idea of friendship with a girl? All I asked from this person was 100% honesty from the beginning regardless of what happened to the "us" part. I was supposedly his "close" female friend, but then he tells 3 different things to 3 different people and then 2 completely opposite (and different) things to me in the past 2 days. That's at least 5 different stories. I don't get it. The lack of honesty/respect makes me question his idea of friendship. Anyway, guess it's good to know. Sometimes I really dislike living here in NYC and I miss my friends back home. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Never, I think one of two things is going on. Either #2 is very confused, or he goofed when you two made out, and instead of telling you you aren't his cup of tea, he now tells you he only wants a casual relationship in an effort to let you down easy.

Skip the B-day party. It'll only be uncomfortable to painful for you. Besides, if you go, you'll have to bring him a present.

Thanks Greengables. Just wanted to clarify that I don't think he is confused/goofed based on the following: we did kiss again, and he made serious moves (again), then he asked if I could come over "every night" for casual fun, and when I looked surprised, he said "well how about every Tuesday night." When we talked the next day because I wanted to get things out in the open, he made it clear he wants a "friends w/ full benefits" arrangement and once again suggested Tuesday night. (?? He knows I'm not like that. ??) I could think of nothing to say and I really feel like he was disrespectful/dishonest to me as a friend. Maybe he is able to compartmentalize me as his friend versus me as just some girl to hook up with.

Anyway, I think I will skip the BDAy party. Here in NY the common idea of a BDay party is meeting at a bar and just drinking. Gifts are rarely involved & usually only among the girls, so I could make an appearance & say hello to people & then excuse myself for other plans. Still, it won't be pleasant for me and I really feel like he isn't a true friend. That part I am really sad about because it's hard to make friends here. Guess it's better to know than not know.

Nev,

This guy is no friend. How insulting.

Do yourself a big favor and lose his number. Good riddance I say.....

DW

Ha. I wish I could kick him in the gonads. How incredibly rude and crude. Every Tuesday night? Icky.

I know NYC is hard. Are you involved in any volunteer activities or something like that where you'd meet people?

You can always come and visit me, I live west of Philly. Newly is closer to NYC in NJ. I feel another Jersey get together coming on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the input, everyone. I do appreciate it!

I did not stop by the Bday party (had other plans anyway) and overall I had a nice weekend (including a date on Sat. w/ guy #1) Unfortunately, I will run into my "friend" again because we have some mutual friends in common. That's fine - I will be pleasant/nice when the situation arises, but other than that, I don't consider him a friend (or even a great person) anymore. Just another learning experience.

Greengables - Yes, I do some volunteer work at an animal shelter and I'm also involved in some activity groups (skiing, etc), so I keep trying to expand my social circle. Overall, I've done a decent job of making friends in the 2+ years I've been here, but I still don't have the close group of friends that I had back home. Sometimes I feel like it's hard to get beyond just being friendly with people and into a real, true friendship. All in good time.

I would love to do a Jersey get together! Let me know and I'll help plan something.

Hope everyone enjoyed the weekend and have a good week.