Grove,
I would wait for her to bring it up- you have nothing to say, and if she gets you in a conversation you might slip and say something your shouldn't. She has had all day to think of how she is going to weasle out of her problem. Be calm, let her know you are not messing around w/ details of how you found out. No need to argue possibilities if you know the truth, and until she wants to speak the truth you have no need to waste your breath. She needs to step to the plate with honesty and actions-not lies and denials.
I think the timing is perfect- even though its Christmas, the fact that she is on break should work to your favor.
Hang in there....

You should never bring it up yourself. I'm surprised you could even ask the question. Oh! That is unless you want to stop the b*** sh** conduct your wife is engaging in. If a placid homelife for as much longer as she wants your humiliation and marriage to continue is what you value most, don't say a word. If, on the other hand, you grow a pair and confront her with your knowledge and start working on the adultery using MB concepts, then there's a chance you can put an end to her affair and make your marriage a real one. It's your choice.

SURPRISE, wife continued to deny contact. She wanted proof, I refused to tell her how I found out. She said I was paranoid and she couldn't live like this anymore. I said, neither can I. She was nicer than most of our fights/conversations, she just said that she isn't having an affair anymore and that if I want to make our marriage work, that I need to stop bringing it up and move on. I think she really believes that she isn't doing anything wrong and that she's only lying because I will make more out of it than it is. She doesn't get it, she's convinced herself that I'm crazy and that she is right.

I think your wife is certain she is right. She isn’t having an affair in the sense that probably she and OM are not in daily or “intended” contact nor having sex. In her mind the affair is over – in her mind she is following “good enough” NC. That is why she finds your accusations negative and love-busting.

In alcoholism there is a common mistake BOTH by the alcoholic and his family that not drinking is recovery. Truth is it’s just the first step. That is where your wife is: she has stopped the affair but seems unprepared to fix the cause for the need. She is not truly seeing the pain and damage but can’t fully heal until she does. In alcoholism it is also acknowledged that forcing someone into rehab is doomed to fail. Your wife must truly feel the need for recovery.

For you and me and all on MB not having an affair or an affair mentality is a no-brainer requirement for marriage and/or recovery. Unfortunately the world is not black or white. I think you seriously have to consider what your long-time goal is. If it is reconciliation then I would not press for an honest reply at this time. Yes – I know – total honesty. Just won’t happen overnight. Accept the “little” faults for the time being. This sounds like a brief conversation – not premeditated. Yes – I know she should have ignored him. Yes – I know she should tell you. Yes – I know these are not “little” faults but yes – they are smaller faults than having a coffee with OM or going to a hotel with him.

I don’t know how this will go over. I am not saying be a doormat. I am saying be tactical and work towards your goal. The goal IS total recovery, total reconciliation, total NC and total honesty. Even in a “good” marriage these goals are hard. I would not make compromises on her having “serious” contact with OM (basically holding up a conversation or pre-planned meetings). I would not make any concessions on her having extramarital sex. Those are serious issues.

However – until you are fully convinced that WW is dedicated to recovery then keep on monitoring her. You did right in letting her know what you know. Keep her focused on the narrow track and with time, MC and a lot of work things will turn out right.

Thanks Bigger, I wish I would have read your post before last night. I Love Busted my way to a whole bunch of problems. I tried not to give too much information, but unfortunately I said something that made it clear that I must of heard it from her conversation with her friend in the car. She's very good at getting me to talk, and to be honest I have a big mouth.

My wife has come up with a pretty good explanation though. She claims she was talking about another person with the same name. It's a possibility. She swears that she has had absolutely no contact with the OM at work and says that she would never do that. She claims it's over and that she doesn't know how to convince me that she isn't doing anything wrong.

There is a side of me that wants to come clean. I don't like lying and being sneaky. It feels dirty.

Grove,
I knew that would happen if you started talking. You love your wife, and in spite of what we tell you-when the conversation starts and its just the two of you-you will desire to give her the benefit of the doubt, want to prove yourself to her, want her to come clean....and you will say too much. Now you probably have lost that tool, and its too bad.
No one likes to be sneaky. But when you are dealing with a woman who lies, you have to resort to those things, becuase she will not tell you the truth. Now she is even lying about someone else w/ the same name... DO you really believe that? If it is a different guy, then she obviously has some type of inappropriate attachement w/ him too.
I wish you would get strong enough to really take your stand. You say you are ready, you are sure, you don't want this kind of a marraige-then you let her put all the blame back on you, and second guess everything you know is right. She has done NOTHING to help you get over this, why should you trust her?

I want to make one thing clear: I believe in results more than I believe in winning every spat. Win wars – not all battles. I used to be a police officer. I learned there that when in a fight you sometimes accept the punches – but always ended up cuffing the opponent.

You can make up for the LB-ing. Go tell your wife you are sorry. Tel her that MAYBE you got bad info and you are willing to believe her. Tell her you are willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Tell her how you want her to be your wife and that you are still hurt. You don’t want that to control your emotions but you are still afraid of losing her. Kiss and make up.

To what purpose? If she is telling the truth then she will feel vindicated. (BTW 2 men w. same name at her job asking about “permission”? Not likely).

If she is lying this might be the shock that was required to get her to take things seriously. She at least now knows you are keeping a close eye. Keep monitoring (although I would not have the recorder in the car for a few days). If she is not respecting NC you will find out soon enough.

I emphasize I am not telling you to be browbeaten. You know the truth but is this “minor” (in perspective to other possible faults) reason to end the marriage? Eating a slice of humble pie is OK if it benefits your goal. Probably have had to do worse things in life.

Why do you do this to yourself? Let me see your wife had an Affair and now she is driving in a car and she happens to start talking about a man who has the exact same name as her Affair partner?? And you believe this.

I got to admit your wife is good. You hear something with your own ears yet she makes you feel guilty about it and how wrong you are. You say you LB'd and it is your fault.

I will make a bet with you. Take her in and get a Lie detector test and see if she is lying. No don't do that I will save you the trouble she is lying. Unless she has been truthful to you in the past and admited all details about the affair.

My wife lied until I showed her video proof. I don't think your marriage will ever improve because she is not accountable. She can lie to you and you believe it.

***To what purpose? If she is telling the truth then she will feel vindicated.***

bigger - she is NOT telling the truth and we all know it, Grove included.

***(BTW 2 men w. same name at her job asking about “permission”? Not likely).***

Of course not. It's just more lies and bullcrap.

***If she is lying this might be the shock that was required to get her to take things seriously.***

Oh, please - if Grove apologizes for being right, it will only reinforce to WW that he will cave in anytime she snaps at him. That's exactly what she's been doing all along and that's exactly why the situation is as bad as it is. She's learned that Grove will back down any time she barks at him and she does not have to be one bit accountable for her actions.

She won't be shocked. She'll be happy and smug and will go right on bullying and lying her way through her marriage AND her affair.

***She at least now knows you are keeping a close eye.***

Yeah, she does, but so what? She will have been shown AGAIN that even when Grove is dead on right about her activities, all she has to do is get nasty and he will back down. Then she will remain free to be both single and married.

What will she do next - invite Grove along on her dates with OM? Why not? It doesn't matter to her that Grove knows. She can force Grove to back off and do nothing even when faced with cold evidence of her lying and cheating.

Grove, please do not do this! Please do not give your WW a reward for bullying you when you are right, and further teaching her that it's okay for her to do this.
Mulan

If my H said to me "Pep, I have proof you are having an affair."

and I know I am not having an affair ...

I would NEVER say "How do you know for sure?"

I would say ... "Oh my God! I am NOT having an affair, let me prove that there is no secrecy in my life .... so you can stop suffering. You must feel terrible thinking I am having an affair. What would you like to examin first?"

The difference is ....your wife shows no concern for how you must feel.

Well I thought MB was about SAVING marriages. The way Grove is going he needs help saving cause that’s what he wants. As I said earlier it’s not a black or white world. He might make concessions now to move on. That is not the same as laying down to be rolled over.

I remember a recent post where someone was told to throw out a WS for being in the same auditorium as the OP after committing to NC. Isn’t that a little drastic? Where is the limit? What if OM pulls into the same gas-station or is in Mall of America at the same time? Same city, county or state? Maybe this should be BS are on Mars – WS on Venus. Now – that would be NC!

In no way am I telling Grove to stop monitoring or start trusting WW unconditionally. I am just saying MAYBE this issue is not the back-breaker. If she IS still fooling around or not committed it will come out soon.

What Pepper said! For Pete's sake man, you say you know she's having an affair and her response is to say she WANTS TO SEE THE PROOF???? Excuse me?

Come on. Face the facts. She wants to know what you have and how you got it so she can better conceal her adultery. Wake up, guy. You need to start the process of ending this thing because it isn't going to get any better if you don't.

Have you exposed to her friends, family, and coworkers yet? Have you done anything about this "friend" of hers that seems to be enabling the adultery?

Did I read wrong? The affair is supposedly over. The issue is that WW very likely broke NC in a minor way. She spoke to OM when she passed him outside restroom at work. She supposedly did not arrange her pee-schedule with him and was most likely a chance encounter.

Yes – they probably did talk. Yes – she did break NC by doing that. Yes – she should be honest. Yes – there should be nothing called minor in NC. But what is the most constructive reaction for the marriage to this event?

The most constructive reaction would be for the remorseful infidel to show concern for her husband's feelings and to do whatever it takes to insure no contact.... like change jobs for instance.

Pep just answered this, and I will too. How can you convince me, dear? By leaving that job so I know you wont be near him.

In His arms.

AMEN to that!

Remember: People who have nothing to hide are very open to scrutiny. WS's who are living above reproach and who are not playing games will often WELCOME the scrutiny as a way to reinforce their honesty.

The moment that Flukette finally got honest and started living above board she suddenly had NO problem with accountability. She enjoyed the opportunity to prove she was faithful and she liked the kudos she got for it.

I have been trying to avoid posting on your thread because the situations in your sitch never change. You keep going through the same thing over and over again.

You heard her talking about OM, saying that



and yet you are ready to believe her lie that she was not talking about him. One thing is clear: your WW has no respect for you. If she thinks she can pass that off to you and have you believe that bull crap, she has not respect whatsoever for your judgment. And regrettably, she may be right.

Grove, this is déjà vu as we all know. The good Dr. Harley himself told you to move on. I am not sure I agree if that is not what you want. But let me explain what I mean by that.

What is clear is that you will never have a trustworthy relationship with your WW until she decides to be an open book, to come clean on her past behavior, and to be honest with you. She will not decide to do these things, until, if at all, she is forced to face the consequences of her actions. She will not have to face the consequences of her actions as long as you continue to enable her sense of entitlement and believe her outlandish lies.

If on the other hand, you want to continue to accept the crumbs she keeps sending your way, then by all means continue on your course of action and believe whatever she tells you even if you eyes, ears and your intuition tell you otherwise. If that is your goal, then I think you are correct in disregarding what Dr. Harley have told you to do.

Sorry for the 2 x 4, but here’s hoping someday you will wake up from the river in Egypt, called DENIAL.

Bigger,

Yes, MB is about saving marriages...but not at all cost. I think you should go back and re-read Grove's previous posts so you can understand where those of us who don't agree with you may be coming from.

After reading earlier posts from Grove I fully agree that my suggestions for moderation would not be appropriate. What has changed? Well Grove – she is way past the point where she deserves a chance. In my suggestion I wanted you to give her a chance but keep a very close eye on her and fall on her like a pile of bricks if she did not change her ways. When in truth you already have given her the chances or more likely the leeway to act like she does without any repercussions for her.

Grove –read the latest developments with Waitingonlove and dazednconfusedks. Two men who have very bravely confronted their spouses and set firm ground rules. In both cases it’s too early to see how it will end but I am sure they will both stand proud eventually knowing they did right.

Thanks everyone. Here's the scoop. I've said that I might have messed up on what I confessed to knowing, I didn't say that I've backed down on my position. I've told my wife that I do not believe her, I have given my wife all of my spying "equipment" as a Christmas gift and proof that I no longer will need them. I'm done, I will not be married to someone that I do not trust or who doesn't respect me or the vows they made. She can do as she wants, I will not sit back and wait while she enjoys the single life and the married life.

Will I stay if she quits her job, most likely. But I do not expect my wife to make that choice, of course not.

I am standing firm. I've been with my wife since I was 16 years old (40 now), this is not easy. So I appreciate everyone's input as I waiver and have doubts. But I have not given in this time.