intexas, you have quite a way with words! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please remember that you are going thru the hormonal part of this as well right now - my baby blues peaked on day 3-4-5...

For you, Psalm 118
[color:"brown"] Psalm 118
1
Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good!
His faithful love endures forever.

2
Let the congregation of Israel repeat:
"His faithful love endures forever."

3
Let Aaron's descendants, the priests, repeat:
"His faithful love endures forever."

4
Let all who fear the LORD repeat:
"His faithful love endures forever."

5
In my distress I prayed to the LORD,
and the LORD answered me and rescued me.

6
The LORD is for me, so I will not be afraid.
What can mere mortals do to me?

7
Yes, the LORD is for me; he will help me.
I will look in triumph at those who hate me.

8
It is better to trust the LORD
than to put confidence in people.

9
It is better to trust the LORD
than to put confidence in princes.

10
Though hostile nations surrounded me,
I destroyed them all in the name of the LORD.

11
Yes, they surrounded and attacked me,
but I destroyed them all in the name of the LORD.

12
They swarmed around me like bees;
they blazed against me like a roaring flame.
But I destroyed them all in the name of the LORD.

13
You did your best to kill me, O my enemy,
but the LORD helped me.

14
The LORD is my strength and my song;
he has become my victory.

15
Songs of joy and victory are sung in the camp of the godly.
The strong right arm of the LORD has done glorious things!

16
The strong right arm of the LORD is raised in triumph.
The strong right arm of the LORD has done glorious things!

17
I will not die, but I will live
to tell what the LORD has done.

18
The LORD has punished me severely,
but he has not handed me over to death.

19
Open for me the gates where the righteous enter,
and I will go in and thank the LORD.

20
Those gates lead to the presence of the LORD,
and the godly enter there.

21
I thank you for answering my prayer
and saving me!

22
The stone rejected by the builders
has now become the cornerstone.

23
This is the LORD's doing,
and it is marvelous to see.

24
This is the day the LORD has made.
We will rejoice and be glad in it.

25
Please, LORD, please save us.
Please, LORD, please give us success.

26
Bless the one who comes in the name of the LORD.
We bless you from the house of the LORD.

27
The LORD is God, shining upon us.
Bring forward the sacrifice and put it on the altar.

28
You are my God, and I will praise you!
You are my God, and I will exalt you!

29
Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good!
His faithful love endures forever.[/color]

First of all, congrats on the new baby boy! In spite of all the stress you've been through, how can you not feel joy at this little miracle? I wonder if you're husband's reaction is just to ease his conscience or if maybe this birth really did reach him? If he is sincere, he is sure handling it wrong though, isn't he? I like moveforward's advice, accept his offer for what it's worth, but only if he meets those conditions! Suddenly the ball is back in his court. Hang in there ok? And let us know how the baby and your crazy sitch is going.

congratulations and much love to yOU and your little ones!

He sounds so adorable...

and we are praying for both his recovery from the jaundice and the return to wellness for you...know you gotta be a bit sore still girlfriend.

You are awesome! whatta mom!

hat's off to Mrs. Texas!

Welcome to the world Elliot Levi, aka 'lil Tex!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have a suggestion for you that might or might not work. Pick a date in the future, say 2weeks, a month from now, whatever. Tell your WH that you will discuss things with him then. Tell him you have just given birth, you are in recovery from that event, and that your hormones are raging every which way right now. You cannot make any major life decisions right now and you need to focus on Elliot. Don't take the calls or look at the text messages. Just take care of you and Elliot.

Congratulations Mom!!

Congratulations!

I like moveforward's idea -- fielded by your mom. Get someone (mom?) to take a baseball bat to WH's head and let him know what he's doing to you. Have mom or someone present the (very reasonable) conditions.

Then don't worry about it. You've got enough on your plate.

What do you (general you--anyone) think are reasonable conditions?

I have been in my mind mulling over this all day. I don't want to be divorced. i want my family intact, but I also do not want to live the rest of my life like this. I can't imagine really not being one with my husband anymore, even though he has been gone for so long now--but I also cannot imagine him home.
When i see him, and think about one day having him hold me again, well, I get nauseas. Truly I do. I think of what he has done with her. We were virgins when we married, so maybe that makes this harder knowing there is another in this picture. We committed to waiting to marriage--and now, well, all that specialness of the "first" is gone.

I know recovery is possible. I do. It just scares the living heck out of me.

And how do you deal with everyone else? There isn't a soul I know (other than a friend here and there) who would support my decision to let him back home. Forever, family relations will be strained. Did anyone deal with this? How did it coin out? My WH has already said he will never see my family again. All the people who have been my support would think I am a loon--a weak one at that.

I KNOW it is not important what others think--but I can admit that it is a fear of mine.

I would, though, like to know what reasonable expectations are.

I think in the end, most everyone (family, friends) want you to be happy and healthy. They see what you have gone through and they think that you would be better off without him.

I also think that if the relationship works out, they will see that you are happy and healthy and they will forgive.

No, the relationships won't be the same, but there can be healing.

There are a lot of us here who understand that you want this to work and we are going to be pulling for you and praying for you. We'll also try to encourage you along the way.

You asked about reasonable conditions.

If it were me, this would be the start of my list:

No Contact - letter must be written and then apporved and mailed by the BS.

An accountability system in place - be an open book, you have access to cell phones, emails, etc.

Counseling: Individual and Couples

Testing for all STDs and no SF until this has been cleared.

Those would be my four big ones.

I'm not sure if this would be MB, but having him move back home right away might be hard. Maybe a courtship period could be in effect.

I can tell you that for me it has been hard to get past the idea of my husband with someone else. I so understand where you are coming from on that.

I know from reading your posts that you are a Christian. I know that you know that our Heavenly Father can give us the strength to go on, to fogive, to love again. It is not in our own strength, but in His.

I'll keep praying for you and your family.

So here's your letter -- except "nauseas" should be nauteous. Maybe cut that whole paragraph.

Then have your mom deliver the conditions.

Then don't worry about it till he meets conditions. The conditions will require effort on his part. Making promises requires nothing. Let's see if he follows his enthusiastic response to baby with a real effort. Let's see if he's learned to put someone else first.

But really, I wouldn't think about it too much until he can show he means business. Let your mom (or a friend) deliver letter and conditions.

Please take care of yourself.

You have laid out the reasonable expectations already, and as someone said to Shattered05, H will be willing to do whatever it takes, WH will want to sneak in the back door. (Note: H vs. WH)...

As far as other people's opinions? I still probably am judged as you describe by some that don't know everything we have done (H has done in particular) in recovery. YOU know what it will take, and it's your family, your children, you will be the one who will be sleeping with him and living with him. Taking him back is your decision alone, do not let others judge it if you feel he has a contrite spirit and you want to try again.

My H went to my parents and apologized and tried to explain. They were very understanding. Shortly thereafter, when there was the relapse, there was really nothing to say to them when he came home. It was a case of him just having to prove himself over time, nothing he could say to get them to trust him again... but they sally forth, and things are good.

I'm happy, and our children are doing splendidly. Let anyone who doesn't think I should have taken him back put that in their pipe and smoke it.

Those who love you and your children will just want to see you happy and healthy. Of course those who love you will worry about you, that's their job. Just be open with them about your plan, and realize that ONLY YOU have to live with the decision if it's a mistake. Well, your kids too, but I think they would love for him to have another chance if the odds seem in your favor...

MSA

Thanks moveforward and A.M.
Can I ask something else?

He still says it was okay for him to leave and that the issue is not the affair. The issue is how horrible I made him feel because I didn't show him enough affection (kissing). That women friendships are not wrong. And that i have done him more of a wrong than he has done to me.

My ?--if he can't get past these points, how do I even set out conditions? I would like him to agree that the affair is the cancer to our marriage. That marriage is about commitment--that it is NEVER okay to leave. I mean, if he can't admit or agree to these, is there even a point of going on into the conditions? Does this make sense?

As for my mom handing him a letter--aside from the fact that she is leaving Saturday, he will not come near the house--even to see the boys--if he knows my mom or dad are anywhere nearby. He wants nothing to do with them ever again.

Mrs. S--you are so right. I know this. It is just a huge fear I have that I will have to deal with in this process. Urrr.. I HATE that he put me in this place and did this to our family.
I just pray that one day our life can be a witness and a help to others, no matter what path we end up on.

intexas - Remember, your husband is all fogged out. They never feel like they have any blame in any of this at first. If he does have no contact with the OW, his story will change and he will be very remorseful.

And don't worry about family. If all of us went by what our family told us to do, we'd all be divorced.

Well, you can't get someone to "feel" differently. That's why one of the conditions was counseling (with Harleys, I hope) to work all this out.

I just think he needs something to "work on" -- otherwise it's just words unsupported by actions.

But really, intexas, you've had a more-than-usually traumatic experience with your bowling ball. You need to focus on the baby and healing right now.

Intex..there's no way that you can make him see that the affair and his actions are the cause of the state of your marriage but a disinterested third party that he respects will be able to. I'm assuming (and you know what happens when one does that) that because you waited until marriage that you may be Christians. If so, go to your pastor and ask his suggestions. He can recommend a counselor for you.

I believe it will take that third party to get through to him. Maybe someone in your church that he respected...maybe someone in his family...maybe the Harleys. (some of the things I've seen posted lately that Jennifer "supposedly" said makes me wonder)

At first my family went ballistic and wanted me to throw him to the curb. As time passed they looked beyond the initial devastation and were able to look at the larger picture.

As Dr. Phil says, if it is the end of your marriage, you've got to work it out. If it's not then that too has to be worked out. Either way, counseling is required but please be very carefully who you choose. It's vital.

How are things going?

Thanks for checking in on me. Tonight is my first night alone, and I've done okay. My parents left early this a.m. for Ohio.
I have cried a lot today--but really needed to do so. WH has the boys (the oldest two) for the night, so me and the baby have stayed in and just rested. He doesn't know I am crying, and I feel okay doing it when he is asleep.

I don't know where I am at on this road. A dear friend reminded me today as many of you do on this site, that I cannot change my WH or hwat has happened. Just to continue to pray, and thank God for what He has given me.

My H is still very much a WH. He called this week and told me:

He will not be happy if he comes home b/c he knows I won't trust him or sleep with him(?), but he should for the boys.

He is more attractive to OW than to me. (Did I really need to know this? Will I even forget he said this now?)

He would be better off fiancially with OW.

He still thinks it was okay to leave me.

I don't have to worry, though, about him leaving again, because HE couldn't handle this pain again.

He didn't kill himse;f because OW kept him going--I wasn't there for him.

He doesn't want to kill himself now--just run away.

And again--I am the reason he will not be a fulltime daddy.

Urr people. I know the whole fog concept--but this junk is coming during what was supposed to be a reconcilliation conversation. He's still clueless.

Do you think sometimes it takes a divorce for them to "repent and turn from their wicked ways"? Do you feel it's okay to stand up for yourself--even when it means he won;t be coming home right now as a result of that?

Also, he said he doesn't want to answer questions about him/her. It's okay to require that, right?
I fear that he'll never meet the conditions I'll need to get over him/her.

This is code for I'll come home but we aren't going to deal with what has happened & the ways I've hurt you. I am too weak to deal with that now (i.e. he's more hurt than you!)


Is is more attracted to OW or more attractive to OW? Either way, it's still based on that fantasy relationship, not physical appearances most likely.



Well, then by all means, he can explain that 15 years from now as his reason to the boys!



Pregnant?????? What????


Don't believe that. That's what my WH told our DDs... 3 mos before he left again.


Who wasn't there for whom? Excuse me!??!?!?


He needs to accept God's way out of this for him. On his knees. It's the only way I know. It's an acceptance of the gift that is offered to us thru grace, and puts an end to pride, and opens the door to a humble spirit, surrender.


Manipulation & blame, pure & simple. Don't fall for it.


You have no choice but to stand up for yourself. He is not "there" yet... even if he does come home & you try to fix things it won't work yet... he does not have a broken & contrite spirit. Recovery is enough work even with that. You are right to wait for it and pray for it. Do not let him trap you into thinking that you are keeping him away... he is doing that with his choices, and his inability to admit his actions.


Oh yes, I did a poll for a friend back in Sept or so, and the MB answers were definitly that the BS has the right to know anything (ANYTHING) that he/she needs to know to move on. It falls under "radical honesty" advocated by MB/Dr.Harley.



I pray that he will. Until then, you are doing the right thing by moving slowly.

MSA

Oops.
He said he was more attracted to her than to me. I mean, at this post-partum state I can see why (though I have lost 20lbs of baby weight in 10 days!). This OW has never had children, either.

I still want to know why I needed to be privy to this information? I really think he told me on purpose--because since I told him no about coming home right now--he wanted to hurt me back. It's sickening.

Yeah, and he *thinks and feels* right now that it's true. The rush of the affair... it is chemically addicting.

Honestly, don't take that comment as the truth right now... of course someday in recovery he'll have to apologize for it and explain it. He will need to do that.

MSA

Drop off day today. Wh has now turned to being annoyed with me, angry, and well, mean. Like he has no patience or regards to me.

WHen he left (he actually just pulled his car up to the door and left it running--even though he was supposed to come in and hold the baby) my 4 year old ran after him outside (he had already pulled away) and screamed and cried forever "Daddy, come back. i miss you, Need you, etc." My heart broke all over again. THey are the reason I am not giving up hope of true repentance.

When I finally got Ben inside (my 4 yrold) he said that he wanted daddy to hold him and come home again. And that Daddy and I fought all the time, and that is why he left.
My chin dropped and I was shocked. My WH and I never fought, and if we ever did have an argument, it was never in front of the kiddos. That was one of WH's excuses for not wanting to work on the marriage that he gave the counselor.

So I KNOW he is feeding this to our innocent son. Since I said he couldn't come home, he is trying to use the kids to guilt me and manipulate me.

I don't know how to handle this.

I also think he thinks I have given up because I won't let him home right now. Not when he is with her, unapologetic, unwilling to talk of the affair, and making demands upon me (like leave your job--which provides me with free housing, etc). How do I let him know that there is still hope. If, and on;y if, there is true repentance. And I believe I will know when it's real. But the prob is that the divorce would be over as early as Feb. 10th unless he agrees to wait until the house sells. But he doesn't want to now, since he said I don't want to work on things now.

Does this mean i'll be divorced then? soon.