Osxgirl,

I am thrilled for you. You have found a tool to use to make you healthier. You haven't become paralized by this situation. You are making changes in your life that are positive. My issues are different by I strive for the same goal, self-improvement.

Some people, maybe many, treat heavy folk poorly. For that I am saddened, but certainly not surprized. Some people are just mean.

I just wanted to give you a 'that-a-girl'.

Cheers.

Thanks CN... and the thing is, it's a LONG time coming. For a long time, I was just sitting still. That's why I'm so passionate now about it. Especially about what we tell people about losing weight. Because believe me, fat people are made to feel every day that it IS a moral issue, that we are bad, horrible people because we are fat. We take up too much room, we are lazy, we are sloppy, we are worthless, we are disgusting, we are stupid.

In fact, it's so funny to watch how people react to me as they get to know me... at my size, it isn't like you can ignore that I'm fat, yet people that I'm around a lot will "forget" that I'm fat, downplay it, and if I say anything about it, often will tell me yes, but you're different. Why? The only thing I can figure - because I don't fit any of the stereotypes of a fat person, so they can't really think of me as fat, even though I so obviously am. None of them can ever believe I weigh as much as I do - obviously if you weigh that much, you'd barely be able to move, let alone do as much as I do.

In fact, I've never really had problems with anyone who knows me at all, even casually. The only times I've gotten insulted by people are when they are complete strangers who know absolutely nothing about me except what they see for a few seconds in passing. Sigh.

Hello. I haven’t read your entire thread, just the initial post. Yet, I am compelled to write, because you and my husband seem to have a lot in common. I’m guessing you’ve had a lot of angry women verbally lashing you for your honesty, and you might guess, given the fact that I have a husband who thinks like you, that I’m going to do the same. But, I’m not. I’m actually excited at the chance to pick your brain without the emotion that comes when doing so with my H. I hope you don’t mind offering some insight.

Let me give you some background info. I’ve been with my H for 8 years, married 6. We have a 1 year old D, and like you and your W, are very happy aside from this one issue (and a side issue that stems from this one). One BIG difference though, I do not feel I’m overweight. I’m 5’7” and 145 lbs. I wear a size 8. This is actually one size smaller than I was before D was born.

The problem started 2 years into our marriage when at a family gathering, my H’s uncle patted him on the belly and said “see you got your married 15.” He went NUTS! See, his parents are obese and he fears following in their footsteps. Understandable…My mom isn’t the picture of fitness either. He doesn’t want us to go down that road. OK. Neither do I. So, we looked into this diet, which was really meant to teach you healthy eating habits that would turn into life changes. Sounds good, right? Well, it worked TOO well. I lost a lot of weight, probably an unhealthy amount (down to 130 or so), and hubby got spoiled. We decided to use the principles in the diet, and still do, but not to an extreme, and the weight came back. I thought I still looked good. I’ve never considered myself to be fat, maybe chubby at times, but never fat. Well, he didn’t agree. He chose a most inopportune moment to tell me so…on vacation in Mexico, right after sex. Needless to say, I was VERY upset. I couldn’t believe that what once satisfied him (unless he was hiding his disappointment until then) no longer did. I felt horrible. Fat, ugly, and unwanted. I cut the vacation short, came home and tried to come to terms with what he had said.

I realized at that moment how important it was/is to me to feel like I’m the only woman in the world to my man. I needed to believe that I was the measuring stick to which all other women were compared and that they all fell short, because I was everything he wanted and needed. (Are you rolling your eyes? I’m a hopeless romantic.) It was like he pulled the carpet out from under me. I was devastated. Obviously, I could loose weight. I’d done it before, I could do it again, but I felt like I was a slave to the diet when I was at my lowest weight. I could never have a treat, and I didn’t like that. Made me want to binge. And now a new problem arose. I felt rebellious towards him. He was trying to control me by telling me what to eat, how much, when to exercise, how long, etc. I automatically wanted to do the opposite just to spite him. He was hurting me, so I was gonna hurt him back.

A few years later, I got pregnant and he obsessed with how much weight I was gaining, how quickly it should come off, etc. She wasn’t 2 days old before he was pushing me out the door to walk and burn the fat off. Every time he hints/pushes/etc. I can feel the blood boiling inside. I’ve told him how I feel, and he insists that he IS attracted to me and just wants to encourage me to be in the best shape that I can. I finally had it the last time we fought about this. (We do so over, and over, and over/) I told him that I realize he wants to be the one to encourage/challenge me, like a man would another man, but that it CAN’T be him, no matter how much he wants it to be him, because every time he says anything about it, it feels like a criticism, it lowers my self-esteem, and makes me feel like he doesn’t trust me. Its as if he thinks I’m going to completely let myself go if he stops nagging me about my weight. The sad part is, I’m so hurt and resentful about these conversations, that I now HATE working out. Every weight I lift or mile I run is another reminder of how fat and unattractive he finds me. I HATE being naked around him, because I feel judged in a bad way, so our sex life suffers. And I feel self-conscious all of the time. My self-esteem has really suffered and it is seeping into the other relationships.

So, my question for you is…where is he coming from? What do I do to make him happy? How can I get past my hurt and try to meet his need? How do I stop seeing his need as shallow and start adjusting my attitude? Any insight you can offer me is greatly appreciated.

Miserable hubby

You are not being shallow or mean. She must lose weight for her own good both physical and emotional. Is she doing this deliberately so you will not find her sexually attractive?

I doubt it; she *likes* sex. But there's no doubt that there is a lot of "odd thinking" going on ... and she's even aware of it. Despite her best intentions, she can't not think of the weight issue as a "love test".

Life is starting to suck again --- or at least my perception of it. I'm pretty sure that this means that I *really* should get back to my doctor and get back on the Prozac; for my sake, and the sake of everybody around me too!

<sigh>

Yes, I got flamed a fair bit. And sure, I'd be happy to help if I can ---


Whoa! Wonderin' --- stop right there! That's a body I could only *dream* about snugglin' up to! I'd *RAVISH* you (for about a week) and then *start over*.

I don't think your husband and I have much of anything in common.


I wouldn't say these thoughts make him shallow, just that there is something strange going on in his head. As you say, *fear* of obesity may be what's causing the problem, because from what you say it certainly isn't obesity itself (because there isn't any!)

Sounds to me like some straight talk along the lines of "Honey, I will NEVER, EVER be fat --- but neither will I ever make myself look like Keira Knightly!" might be appropriate.

If that doesn't work, he needs to talk to someone who can help him reconcile his fears with reality.

Just because you have put on ten pounds after a child, doesn't mean that you are on your way to putting on 75.

I'm sorry, I just can't see this as being similar to my situation at all.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for writing back. And thanks for the affirmation that I am not crazy in thinking my weight is OK.

But, I'm confused about one thing. You think that because your conception of an appropriate wieght differs from my husband that you have nothing in common? I don't see it that way. You both are unhappy with your W's appearance, and for the same reason - weight. Doesn't matter if we Ws are 5 pounds overweight or 30, we are not filling our H's AS need.

I still don't understand why the outside is so much more important than the inside? I don't get why it is so important, in fact, that our feelings and the sacrifice required to maintain/get to the H's ideal weight doesn't matter at all.

You said that you don't think those thoughts make him shallow, but that you think there is something strange going on in his head...what do you mean? I have a hard time not turning his comments into something personal. I have a hard time not believing that my appearance is THE most important thing to him, and I don't get why. Makes me wonder if he'd still love me if I lost a leg...or got into a wreck that ruined my face or soemthing. My guess is that your W has experienced the same confusion and hurt. Not to say that we shouldn't be trying to fill your need for AS. We should. But it is SO hard to WANT to do this when it feels as though it is the end all in the relationship.

Have you ever heard the song that says "if you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife?" Had I to do over, I think I would have rather married a chubby nerdy guy who worshiped the ground I walked on over a handsome man who obsesses on diet/exercise.

Oh - and I HAVE told him that I never intend to "let myself go." I will continue to watch what I eat and exercise within reason. It will probably just never be a passion, that's all. And I HAVE asked him if he wants me to look like a model/actress, and he claims that that is not the point nor the goal. He just wants me to be as thin as I was during that awful diet all of the time because its "healthy." I've asked him to talk about his ideas with other men, and I know that he has (the wives I complain to told me), but it really hasn't changed anything. Anyway, I do appreciate your taking the time to write with your thoughts. Maybe I should read the rest of your thread.

Wonderin,

Pardon my brusqeness --- I was just about to turn in for the night; been moving an entire internet business from servers here to servers in another location, and it's been a LOOONG day.


No problem. As I said, it *IS* ok.



I disagree. There is a "reasonableness" issue here. Five pounds is nothing, 30 pounds might be an issue, 75 pounds is just plain disgusting. Rolls and bulges, the whole 19 yards. Nothing looks right and closing my eyes doesn't help because nothing *feels* right either. So now it's "don't look, don't touch". Crappy way to live, but it beats the alternative.


It's not, but it's not unimportant either. Men are visual creatures. You've been told that a million times, I'm sure. Why not try believing it?


See my comments above on reasonableness. It sounds like you are quite attractive; at the very *least* you could be described as "normal". What he is after seems outside of the range of normal to me (and, it seems, to you).

Unfortunately for me, my wife isn't normal, she's obese, and my brain just flat-out doesn't want to go there, sexually speaking.

[/quote]
I have a hard time not turning his comments into something personal. I have a hard time not believing that my appearance is THE most important thing to him, and I don't get why.
[/quote]

Here's where you have to take responsibility. What his statements *mean to you* is YOUR business, and your doing, and is the part that is most under your control. This is one thing that you most certainly have a choice about.

It's a hard trick to learn, but useful.


I've thought about that kind of situation --- and age too. What I feel right now is that I wanted some years of --- for want of a better way to put it --- "hot sex" so that when we got old and gray (and I'm certainly getting there quickly) I could think back and smile. We've both been robbed of that.


Well, I'm kind of chubby. More than I used to be - although very muscular. But that doesn't matter. It's not the point. But remember, the situations differ so much in degree that I honestly don't think there's much comparison.


Just as an aside ... I wouldn't like a stick-thin, boney woman. It probably wouldn't bother me quite as much as fat does, but that's not my ideal at all. Hey! Whadda ya know? I'm ***reasonable*** !!! Who'd a thunk it????

Wonderin --- this is really kind of funny --- here I am, giving you the same sort of "supportive" feedback you'd probably be getting from the "wives".

I think he's nuts. And I mean that in the kindest, most clinical sort of way ...

Unhappy,

Thanks for taking time to write in spite of your long day. Much appreciated.
Good point, there is a reasonableness factor to all this. I think that is my problem with my H. I feel like he is grasping at straws due to his fears that I’ll turn into his mother. Maybe I should suggest counseling. I guess I’ve turned to you because I so desperately want to understand him…and respect him again. Perhaps you really can’t help me understand him. Thanks for trying anyhow.

Just curious…does your W work out? Has she been trying to loose the weight? How has she received your efforts and telling her you’d like her to? I thought you may be interested to know one thing that has been of recent help in this area for me. The last time my H brought up the issue, I told him I’d had it. I said that I couldn’t live the rest of my life with him nagging me about the issue. That I realized that he really wanted to be the one to encourage me to loose the weight, but that every time he did, I received it as a criticism. (Maybe because of the WAY he was trying to “encourage” me.) I made him promise to trust me to take care of myself within reason, and that he would NEVER bring it up again. So far, so good. It seems to be helping, though time will tell…it is still new. As far as the sex issue…don’t give up hope. You never know what the future holds. Maybe you’ll be making up for lost time in the next year or so?
One other question: you said “Men are visual creatures.” OK, you like thin ladies. What about the guys who are into (or at least don’t mind) fat chicks? How do you account for them?

Wonderin,

I'm not really sure that I can be of much aid in helping you to understand him, because *I* don't understand him ... unless his attitude really does stem from his fears that you might become like his mother if you aren't constantly dieting and working out like mad. The good thing is that if that's the case, it really isn't about you at all -- and that's the bad thing too, because then you can't do much about it ...

In her lifetime, she's battled weight on and off, and the weight's gone on and off. Currently, she's been totally off sugar, wheat, and for all practical purposes, alcohol. She's not working out, and has quite the sedentary lifestyle. In the past, mostly before we met, she's worked out like a demon. We've been through all the different phases of this, and she's smart enough to have thought through and double-thought through all the mind games she plays. You know, the idiotic fantasies of "well scr*w HIM! I'll show him ... I'll leave him and then loose 60 pounds! HA! That'll show him!" She's aware of just how nuts that is, and even told me about it. I can't help her, because any kind of help is perceived as an attack. She wants "support", but I'm a "fixer", and my kind of support isn't welcome. And then there's the fact that the kind of support that she seems to want sounds more like "enabling" to me.

When we last spoke about this, about 2 years ago, I finally laid it out in no uncertain terms, so there was no way to misunderstand, or to minimize the problem. She cried (which made me cry), said she wished we hadn't married, then pulled herself together and said "thanks for not sugar-coating it".

It's not like I hadn't mentioned this in the previous eight years ...

I'd very much like to be making up for lost time, but it seems even less than unlikely. I need to get up with my GP and sort out my cholesterol medication soon, and I'll get back on that Prozac, probably permanently. There really doesn't seem to be any downside to it, that I can see, and I can feel quite a negative difference in my mood after three months off it. I was taking it from January through April.

I like my wife. She's an amazingly smart gal, and kind, generous to a fault, and talented in many ways. I'd like to love her again someday. It would make the next ten years so much more pleasant ...

And no, I wouldn't say that I like *thin* ladies ... I just like ladies that my limbic system recognizes as human females (and therefore appropriate to have sex with), and there is a point at which that stops happening.

Hmmmm ... guys that like fat chicks? Just too wierd. I stumbled over some extreme "fat porn" once on cable TV at 3AM, and it turned my stomach. It took a few seconds for me to figure out just what the h*ll I was lookin' at, and then I leapt for the remote.

You're on prozac because your wife is fat? If you are really saying that, I guess I must have missed something important in your postings.

Ok I read it. I am going to repeat back to you what you just said:

This smart generous talanted, fantastic woman, in both spirit and personality, has been, in your mind reduced (hahahhaha) to nothing worth loving by you unless she is as thin as you want her to be.

Do you have an obsessive compulsive disorder? Prozac is used to treat that.

Perhaps the kindest course of action would be to end your marriage. She sounds to have a nice personality and a little bit of spirit. I wouldn't worry, some other fellow will see that and snatch her up.
In the meantime, you will be free to choose a partner who's physical appearance will please you.

It is a logical step to take, unless, of course you have other reasons for staying in the marriage? I didn't quite catch your reasons/ What are they?

Miserable,

I'm trying really hard to put myself in your shoes. How would I feel if my H had 60 pounds to loose? Hmmm...It is almost impossible to imagine, since I doubt very much that it will ever be the case. I can see how it wouldn't be the most attractive situation and how it may effect sexual desire, but I'm a woman, and I'm not sure I have the same need that a man does. A little weight would probably be freeing for me, as I don't feel he'd have a right to nag me. It may actually be nice. Sure, it wouldn't be my preference, but I don't think that I wouldn't want him ever at all. I can honestly say that I don't think it'd bother me that much because I love the man he is on the inside so much (at least most of the time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). Do you think its possible to focus on all the wonderful attributes your wife posseses instead of the physical and just go for it?

Your W's diet sounds very similar to the one we went on that lead to the dramatic weight loss that caused this whole problem. Is it working for her? I know that that diet isn't livable long term for me. I just can't live without an ocassional slice of bread or bag of M&Ms. If I were you, I would suggest trying a diet that focuses on portion control, healthy choices, and some form of activity instead. Is she open to your suggestions? Maybe you could suggest it as something you'd like to do personally, and she could help by preparing foods that work, etc. Maybe she'll follow suit.

Are there any active activities that you enjoy together? Hiking...a sport maybe? Does she have any friends who like to get out and walk with the little ones? After I had my D, I started walking 3 miles every day with a girlfriend of mine, and I was back into my jeans in 3 months. What changed her passion for "working out like a demon?"

I do realte to the trap of wanting my H's support, but not wanting it the way he wants to give it. Really, what I need is encouragement. I HATE when he asks if I made it to the gym, what I ate, how much, etc. Can't stand it! It's like he's checking up on me. What I love is when he says "wow, you're looking good. I can feel those arm muscles. Look how pretty Mommy is." I need to know that he appreciates the efforts I'm making without controling them. Is that the same support your wife wants? The kind you see as enabeling?

Wow! I have to commend you for holding your tounge for 2 years! I hope my H can do the same...but I do hope he isn't harboring ill feelings about it either. I guess I want the best of both worlds. Your conversation with her sounds very much like the one we had in Mexico. I'm not a cryer, but I cried and cried, and still cry when I think too hard about it. I threw my rings and said I wished we'd never married. I feel like we are both cheated of the person we really wanted and dreamed of, even though I do care for him, like you do your W. I am NOT happy about the fact that he didn't sugar coat it though. I may have appreciated a softer approach.

Side note: My mom is on Prozac for different reasons and swears by it. I figure, if it helps you feel normal again, why not?

I hope I'm not rambling...was hoping to offer something useful. Have a good evening.

Maybe your wife has sleep apnea and that is why she is falling asleep and not as energetic as she needs to be to exercise.

Send her to the Canyon Ranch or other weight loss center as a gift after she gets a check up. Tell her that you love her and this is for the two of you. YOu can be honest, nicely and expalin your emotional need and give her a copy of Dr Harley's book. Good luck.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner here! Give that little lady a kewpie doll!



I've tried. It doesn't work anymore. Between her temporary weight loss before we were engaged, and this idea ... that's how I got into this mess in the first place.


I couldn't say. If she's losing weight, it's not a fast process, and frankly, there's a lot to lose before this situation will change. And I long ago reached the point where I stopped looking, because it only made be depressed and angry.


Not really --- after all, she *is* an expert on weight loss and dieting, having done so much of it <grin>.

Several years ago I damaged my back shoveling snow, so being on my feet for a while is usually painful ... tends to limit the exercise possibilities a bit, and it's undoubtedly partly the cause of the 15 pounds that *I* have added over the last 4 years. But any suggestions from me are generally a bad idea anyway.


Ding, ding, ding, again. The BIG problem is that anything along those lines would be a lie, until she's *done*. I'd love to be able to say those things. The best I can do now is to try to avoid derailing her efforts.


Thank you. You have a good day, too.

"Ding, ding, ding, again. The BIG problem is that anything along those lines would be a lie, until she's *done*. I'd love to be able to say those things. The best I can do now is to try to avoid derailing her efforts."

When is she *done*?
Why is validating the progress she is making a "lie".

Are you a troll?

In the context of what you have read here, that should be quite obvious.


Validating progress would not be. Saying, "Wow! You look great!" would be.


No. Are you a moron? Hmmm, perhaps not, but it's clear that you either cannot understand simple English, or, more probably, just choose not to do so.

Please don't bother posting on this thread again until you do. It's a waste of everybody's time.

My H says he is not attracted to heavy women. They may be nice, kind, sweet, and attractive and attractively dressed. He is simply not attracted to them.

Maybe men have thier "top weight limit"? I guess anything "plus size" my H is not attracted to.

What if your wife lost 40 lbs, do you think your attraction would come back from her new healthy eating and exercise habits plus the weight loss?

Sometimes if you are around a person day in day out, you may not see the weight loss so drastically as if you are not around them for a couple weeks or a month.

I am wandering around here searching for a solution to your VERY normal and common problem.

I think your wife needs to be "inspired" to change her ways of eating and working out. But how to find out what inspires her! Let brainstorm on that:

1. Send her for a couple weeks to Canyon Ranch Spa.
2. Buy healthy and or vegetarian cookbooks for her to try.
3. Cook only low fat healthy foods
4. Count fat grams as a family and make a chart of them.
5. Have a non food reward every week or even daily for following the healthy eating.
6. Have a great "trip" planned ready to execute if she loses__________lbs.
7. Special weight loss classes that last 13 weeks...
8. A group of supportive friends helping each other lose.
9. Three supportive friends she can meet at the gym
10. __________________________________.....etc
11. Kitchen makeover (toss all bad foods out)

Also, brainstorm what IS NOT motivating her to lose weight and feel healthy:

1. Is she depressed or unhappy?
2. Has she given up?
3. Does she dislike sex?
4. Has she been abused as a child in any way?
5. How is her self esteem?
6. What does she live for?
7. Has she any goals in life?
8. Has she met her goals in life?
9. What does she do with her time?
10. What does she want to look like in the next 5 years?
11. Is she happy being heavy?
12. Does she have supportive or unsupportive friends?
13. Are you good to her?
14. Can she get counseling?
15. What is the root problem?
16. Is her mom or her family heavy?


Here are some things for you to "chew" on. Maybe you can find the KEY to her weight loss.

I wish for her that she be so passionate about eating healthy, cooking healthy, and exercise that she does lose the weight.

I wonder how you can explore her personality and her motivations and help get her there?




All these could be bad ideas but you can continue to brainstorm "what would turn her on to the weight loss".

Lose the attitude.

"No. Are you a moron? Hmmm, perhaps not, but it's clear that you either cannot understand simple English, or, more probably, just choose not to do so.

Please don't bother posting on this thread again until you do. It's a waste of everybody's time."

I will post to this thread.
First of all you don't speak for eveybody. You speak for your own mean self.

Second, you are exhibiting some of the most breathtakingly nasty attitudes I have ever seen on these boards. I have read here for 4 years, so that is saying something.
Being abusive to ME is not going to make me shut up.

From the way you are acting, I would say it must be working pretty well at home, or you wouldn't think you were so entitled to attack any one who is disagreeing with you or questioning you.

Why wouldn't we think you were a troll? You come here slagging off some of the most atrocious commentary I have ever seen on these forums in an open and baiting way. What's not to think is a troll.

I believe 100% you came here to try and get validation for the ugly crap you have been trying to drown your wife in.

It ain't about your wife. It's about you. No one here can do anything to help your wife change. You are here, so what are YOU GOING TO DO TO CHANGE SO YOUR WIFE WILL CHANGE?

Answer the questions:

Why the Heck do you think being nasty to her is going to get her to do what you want?
You figure if you bully her and humiliate her enough she will let you decide what she will weigh? That is ABUSE, you are trying to control someone else by ABUSING THEM.

What is it with this compulsion you have admitted to with completely beating her down then kicking her back up on her feet?

this oesn't show respect for her and you know what, she doesn't have to EARN your respect or your consideration. YOU OWE IT TO HER.
Tell us what YOU are going to do to change things instead of trying to get us to agree its ok she is a fat slob who is being fat to make you depressed, so you have a reason to be abusive to her.
There is NO ACCEPTABLE REASON TO BE ABUSIVE. Get over the concept that you have a right to be.

And honestly, I can't say that the sight of some guy with 15 pounds of fat jiggling round his middle and an unfit body like you have described yourself to have would turn on a lot of gals.

How does your wife feel about you being out of shape?

Well I agree. People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.
I read through your thread. You obviously have a lot of mean anger and you clearly indiate you feel not only entitled to this rage, but entitled to let it out on your wife.
You sound like you believe you were tricked. Well, I don't know. You saw her before you were married and you went ahead and got married.

Your job, as her husband, is to support her. You have indicated you don't feel she deserves your support in any way at all until she lets you play Pygmalion to her Galatea: You define her value based upon what seems like pretty restirctive conditions. She must be a very unhappy woman.

I agree with Opal, trying to control someone else by hurting them is abuse.

Why don't you stop hurting her and being so mean to her? Just because you are disappointed doesn't mean you have a right to be that way to her. Look at the results you have been getting. If your method was effective you would not be so unhappy and you would not be here trying to make it ok that you can abuse her because she is fat right now.

I have to wonder what it is about you that she find so appealing that she is working to lose the weight and trying to tolarate your unkindness to her. One also wonders if it is because you have convinced her that she is at fault for your nastiness and that she can control the pain you are inflicting if she loses weight.
That is a terrible thing and she must be highly conflicted, wanting to be her own person, loving you and wanting to please you, while you are abusive to her even as she is trying. The conflict she must feel would be to do that "so there!" thing to you in order to defy your abuse, whiole at the same time wanting to please you.

I am with a few other people here. You need to look at yourself and figure out how you can change the dynamics of this situation. It isn't good for your wife and your kids or you to be in such a stressed enviroment.

Stella it may be common for men not to be attracted to larger women but it isn't normal to completely destroy an entire family over it and abuse your partner because of it. To me, that is what it looks like is happening.