Sorry so long, ....
But figured needed a little background....

Married 39 yrs, dated 4 years off & on before married...
We had met when we were 14 yrs old in a square dance club, but after getting married we quit. In September, 2002, we got back into square dancing..something we both enjoyed as we got exercise, had fun, and also got to do alittle traveling. ( I'd been trying to get him back in it for years!)

I was not able to go with him..couldn’t keep up and work a stressful, demanding full time job & had few small health problems.

In April 2003, my husband who up until then had always taken very good care of himself, played fast pitch softball, exercised, etc., had a heart attack and actually died twice in one day. He had 4 stints put in his heart, but made a very remarkable, fast recovery. He was told he needed to exercise..he jogged, walked, etc., but decided that square dancing was a lot more fun,
but decided that square dancing was a lot more fun, so he began dancing about 5+ nights a week, with Dr blessing.
He even amazed his Drs.; who said really couldn’t tell he had ever been sick.
In fact off & on since then he has made statement several times that he did have heart attack & died twice, but no one seems to think anything changed.

Dr told he needed to exercise..he jogged, walked, etc.,

About this time that one of student s in our club class, graduated and taking next level of lessons at another club, where my H danced. She was a fast learner & good dancer. My H dances every dance & I’m not able to, she often went with us, dancing ones with my H that I wasn’t able to or if she didn’t go he would dance with other single ladies at dance. Over the next year they danced quite a lot together ..she being able to do all the twirls, special turns, move that I’m not able to do. I was not able to go with him..couldn’t keep up and work a stressful, demanding full time job along with few health problems

I was not happy about this, but didn’t feel I could voice too much complaint since he was dancing for exercise for his health…afraid if he didn’t dance to exercise & anything happen I’d never be able to live with guilt.

As time went on I watched when he danced with her he seem to be having more fun and enjoyed dancing with her than when he danced with me.
(Yes, I was very jealous & voiced it loudly angryly (ps?) !!)

On March 1, I woke up with pain in my neck, shoulders & arms that turned out to be a herniated disk in my neck & took me until June to recover enough to dance.
There is a resort in Colorado that offers a week of square dancing during the middle of June. Since I’d miss work and then only able to work ½ days for my recovery, I didn’t think I was in position to ask for a week off to go. Figured we would have to wait until next year. My H emailed me at work about week before date to go & ask what I thought about him going..he hadn’t had day off since his heart attack ,would be a nice break & what did I think about his going? I was busy, didn’t give it much thought, & emailed him back that guess was ok..asking who his partner would be if I didn’t go? His quick response back was her.
I was crushed..1) that he even considered going without me and then to take someone else. Besides my not working full time for several months put a dent in our budget, besides cost for me to go & what I’d lose by not working that week while gone. Never mind that I had just taken the last of my 401K money out to help out. So of course we couldn’t afford for me to go.
Guys I worked with at work found out about my wanting to go on the week long trip and managed to arrange for me to get time off..without pay, since I work contract, but they took up collection & gave me $100 when told me what they had done. I was so excited..just knew he would be too! He didn’t seem as excited as I thought when I told him. At first he thought it would be with pay, but when he found out it was without pay, actually saw a look of relief cross his face. That was his out! Since I wasn’t getting paid for the week off from work, then I couldn’t go..it would cost us too much. So off he went.
Naturally I was very deeply hurt, jealous & angry. When I expressed my feelings & concerns replies were what I see now as just false assurances that all was fine with us, that I should just get back to "normal" etc.

I’d began to realize that he hardly talk to me when he was home, when I ask him a question he replied with short curt answers, or he replied with hint of anger just below the surface in his tone of voice.

Didn’t seem to be enjoying himself when he danced with me and other little things.
Around the end of September '04 I’d had enough one night…in tears I ask him why wasn’t talking to me, giving me the “silent treatment”, treating me like dirt under his feet..what had I done? That I didn’t deserve to be treated like he had been. His answer was he didn’t know why & when I pressed him said not to go there.

Think I then ask if it was he didn’t want care about me any more & he said he’d always care about me, but could tell from tone in his voice that it wasn’t like he truly felt anything special..like a husband. I wasn’t prepared for his answer when I ask him if he wanted to call it quits after 38 yrs & go with OW, or whoever..he replied that he didn’t know what would make him happy. When I said something about his acting different for quite a while ( since Colorado in June) he said that he’d felt like that..not knowing what would make him happy for much longer.
I ask what I had done or not done & he said he wasn’t me.

Tried several times after this to get him to talk/discuss things but never did.
Then once again I had enough & finally I sent him email a week or so before Christmas, requesting that he set aside some time on Sat. Dec 18, for us to sit down & discuss some issues.

When we sat down he said he knew what I wanted to talk about. I said, “what do you think I want to talk about? Tell me.” He said, “that he loved me but wasn’t ‘in love” with me!” That he had felt that way since before his heart attack and had been faking it / playing role since then

Said he had to get the “****** outa’ here” .Said he was confused, that his thinking is cloudy & get his ****** together!” & was “searching for something to build on going forward” Told me that he didn’t have answers to the questions he knew I had.

Sent me emails 2 days later telling me :
“not to give up us yet”
that “You are a most wonderful person that I love with all my heart”
that he “loves me so much””
“just don’t give up on me”
that “it’s not over between us”

On Jan 19,'04 when I came home from work to find a note that he had left..was staying at extended stay hotel for week to be alone to do some serious soul-searching, etc. before going to his mother’s to stay.

Needless to say that although I am normally a very strong person, who was capable of handling myself in crisis very well, taking control, etc. but found that my world had collapsed & everything I had believed & trusted in was gone, had no control, etc. Finally realize this was not something I could handle alone or with just help of God…went to Dr. for anti-depression meds.
Shortly after he left, I told him that I was detaching with love & setting him free& would accept whatever choice / decision he made. Also laid out some ground rules..that any contact would have to come from him., etc.

It's been a year ( on Dec 18th) that got the "love you, but not 'in-love' with you" speech and will be year on Jan 19 that he left.still has not been willing to discuss issues, etc. that lead us to where we are. Has repeatedly denied that he & his dancing partner are anything other than “just good friends”

At the beginning he'd ask me about once week to lunch as worked close by; said that he considers night at our square dance club as “our night”; but these have stopped. Still
comes to house to see our new grandbaby & the baby’s parents ( our son), ( all grown) emails or calls ( Told him early on that contact would have to come from him, unless something about house, car or our kids).

To me the most surprising thing is that once my initial round of tears begging & pleading,etc. had passed, I have been able for the most part, to hold it together & remain calm, fairly level headed & reasonable, etc. when I have talked to …totally out of character for me under circumstances of being so devastated & deeply hurt, & betrayed..I normally would have completely lost my temper & lashed out in terrible anger! (Know this is God’s hand in this..without a doubt!!) Not to mention my jealousy!

I somehow knew almost immediately that I was willing to do any & every thing I could to improve our relationship and save our marriage, but that this was something that would require guidance & what only could come from God. He gave him to me as my husband 38 yrs ago and only He can restore, improve our relationship and save our marriage.

God has really blessed & guided me so far on this journey. As within days after I was told, I was searching the Web for any information.. when He sent me a website on “Mid-Life Crisis”…newcomers information gave stories of women going thru almost exactly what I was and also from men going thru it. Seems all our guys are reading from the same script..as all seem to say almost the same things !

Most of the “crisis” seemed to have been triggered by a very traumatic event in the guys life…like his heart attack & his dying twice in one day.
I quickly realized that what I must do was to turn him over to God and let go..to “Let Go & Let God”. That I needed to walk in failth & not by “sight”. I’m really trying but very difficult. I also knew that I must set him free to go , which I told him and that I would abide by whatever choice/decision he made.
As I said, I am willing to do whatever it takes to improve our relationship and save our marriage however long it takes. To me, this is the part of our marriage vows, “ for better or worse” & is like a sickness, disease, etc. & I would hope that if position were reversed he would do same for me.

It has been my past experience that things happen for a reason, and that God never shuts a door that He doesn’t open a window somewhere. I truly believe His hand is in this and am trusting that it will be revealed in His time & will be His will. That He is guiding, helping both us and hears all the prayers on our behalf!

Although it was not a easy decision, but because I so love him so very much, knew I must set him free to do what he feels he must do and have told him I will abide by whatever choice/decision he makes.


I am willing to do any & every thing I can to improve our relationship and save our marriage.
However, although he's verbally given indications that it's not over between us, his actions give indicate that it is in fact.

To be quite honest...in order to keep house, and be able to stay in it, would have to depend on his financial help with mortgage payments, utilities as well as other debts. Just two days after got speech he did state in email to me .."not to worry about making it financially, that was his worry ( he's paid bills, etc for about the last 10-12 years) & that he would always take care of me.

Questions:

Since almost a year now since he left & we've been separated,..
Is it too late to try Plan A
How do I carry out Plan A, if have no idea what our "few little problems" were, since still refuses to discuss them?
If I don't know what I did wrong, how can I begin to change ?

Welcome any & all suggestions, advice, as well as prayers !

Just got home from work short time ago & have to admit, I was disappointed that although looked several had read my post, no one had offered answers to my questions,or any help, suggestions.
Thanks to those of you that took time to read.
I really could use some help as I'm at a loss as to what to do.

I'm sorry. I read this earlier and had a few questions but I had to take my daughter to ballet. Then, I got caught up in the pre-game stuff. I really am sorry that I forgot to come back to it.

I am not a pro, but I have some questions for you.

Is he living with his dance partner or alone?

Have you read surving an affair?

Have you done the EN Questionaire? I know he is not living with you to do his, but you can fill out it out for him. After this many years together, I bet you have a good idea.

Have you considered counseling, either with the Harleys or someone else?

No, he's living with his mother across town.
"Dance partner" lives not far from me.
I've just found some of the articles on MB in last few weeks; printed some out, but haven't had time to read all yet..EN Questionaire is one of them.
I mentioned counseling almost immediately after D-day, but he refused...rather old fashioned in his thinking about it.
saying his parents/childhood don't need to be picked apart.
Besides, really can't afford it.

Well, it is good he is not living with her.

What have you done for you since he left? Are you working on making positive changes for you?

You might check with your insurance, some provide free counseling. Have you talked to your pastor?

As I said, I am not a pro at this, but I think you could plan A. Have you read the info on Plan A? There is a good post called the carrot and the stick of plan A. Please check it out.

Part of Plan A is also exposing. Have you exposed? Have you told your children why he left? Does his mother know?

There is another book talked about on here called Not Just Friends, you might want to check that out as well.

Keep reading and keep posting.

blessings

Hey TxGal,
How are you dong today?

Hi, Moveforward..

Really been busy & then had trouble finding this..sorry.

Question:
What have you done for you since he left? Are you working on making positive changes for you?

Answer:
Guess, really not much. Have been trying to lose weight - did fairly good for while, but with working more 50-60 hours weeks than 40 hour weeks, since June '05, honestly just haven't had energy or time. Have been getting my nails done.


Question:
You might check with your insurance, some provide free counseling. Have you talked to your pastor?

Answer:
Yes, did talk with pastor early on, but don't have church I attend regularly.
Will check insurance, which is thru his work ( I work contract, so have no benefits..great resume, but no one willing to hire at my age & pay salary, etc. when get younger, cheaper !)
Would love the find a local support group, but no idea where to begin to look, or if could even afford that

Question:
As I said, I am not a pro at this, but I think you could plan A. Have you read the info on Plan A? There is a good post called the carrot and the stick of plan A. Please check it out.

Part of Plan A is also exposing. Have you exposed? Have you told your children why he left? Does his mother know?

Answer:
I confronted him on D-Day (12/18/04), but he denied & has continued to deny. Really don't have any proof or exactly how I'd go about obtaining anything solid.
Our children know & although grown with kids of own...have been greatly affected.
As for his mother, she's not going to interfere, always takes up for her kids, never wanted them mad at her. So I'm sure she suspects/knows ( I sent her letter when he left as I didn't want her to think was my fault & have no idea what he's told her)

Question:
There is another book talked about on here called Not Just Friends, you might want to check that out as well.

Answer:
I've gotten several books ( always been a reader ) Not Just Friends was one of first. Also have
Love is Tough, Divorce Busters ( think that's title), Several of Dr Phil's Relationship Rescue.
These are just main ones that I can think of off top of my head!

Also..as if not enough stress in life..Our son, now 27, along w/His GF (& now /darling 1 yr old daughter live in house. ( Son has never left, GF for about 3-4yrs)
Will try to explain more about this situation later.
but for now just let me say have mixed feelings.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Gotta get back work.
( Also check/look for post by TxDumbo-also me. When got new computer at home, wouldn't let use TxGal2 for some reason)
Thanks for listening ! Really helps!

Bumping this up for help for her

TxGal,

I'm glad you found MB and are a book lover. Sorry that you are in this predicament, but my personal belief is that you are for a reason. A really good reason, if that helps.

Couple of things--have you read the lovebusters section? Might be one of those that you printed out. I picked up in your post that you might have had some problems with angry outbursts. I've been there, done that. No judging here. I know that eliminating LBs was my first step in Plan A.

I also picked up that you aren't assertive when it comes to making your own choices. You are leaving this in your H's hands, with loving detachment. And you didn't go to Colorado (which is where I am, but I was reared by Texans, so I would welcome you anyway) because he said you guys couldn't afford for you to miss the week's pay. What was your take on that? I'm not advocating aggression or independent behavior--just wondering how much you choose in your life. To your own code?

Same thing for working so many hours in a week. Not because that is a bad thing, but if you choose to do that and then say you can't do something because of it, then it is a problem. A legal separation would give you a better idea as to regular income and budgeting--something that you could choose to do for yourself because you're living by yourself (I know about son and family, but I have to take your choices one bit at a time).

What you do for yourself, including getting counseling even if he won't, well, that speaks a lot for your commitment to the marriage. Think of the marriage as a third-part...it is you, your H, and the marriage. You an honor yourself and your marriage without your H present. You are great at surrendering to God and having him lead you. He led you to information and education. What you do with that is up to you.

When you exposed, did you expose to the OW's family? Please don't say that since you didn't have proof, you didn't do it. Let's call it informing. "I believe my H is having an inappropriate friendship with your daughter/mother/wife and I believe it is destructive to my marriage." Stating what you believe, politely, is information. What they/she does with it is not in your control.

There's a great free support group out there--Al-Anon. You don't have to be married to an alcoholic--you just have been influenced by one in your family (great grandfather/mother?), your children...you name it. Anyway, most people think of it as the place a spouse goes to cope with an addicted H or W. I think of it where you go when you can't see where your control ends and others' begins. It helped me tremendously with being a control freak. And yes, conflict avoiders can be control freaks. It is a very sneaky condition. And it's not a character trait, IMHO.

I hope some of this helps. Keep posting and sharing what hits home most for you in the help books, what changes you want to make, what you think of Plan A and about what you're facing with your grown son and family in your home.

And to "moveforward"--I keep following you around. You ask great questions and I consider you helpful and compassionate. What more could a real pro be? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thanks! Given me quite alot to mull over & do some serious thinking about, as well as some reading...which I will do & post more detailed reply.

So glad at least couple people took time & made effort to not only read, but post & help as well...as I truly & seriously need it... was beginning to wonder <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Have a great day!

Think need to read the following books for more help:
"Love Busters", "His Needs, Her Needs" & workbook "Five Steps to Romantic Love" that goes w/ them.
Any others that would be helpful?
Thanks!

I've read His Needs, Her Needs (the quick way is typing HNHN), haven't done the workbook or the other two. I've read all of his stuff here, and have heard Love Busters is excellent.

I don't have more recommendations until you I know more...from all my questions to you. And I know you're busy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So, I'll wait for them and then see what else would help.

Surviving an Affair and Torn Asunder are great, too.

LA

Just to let you know I'm working on replies.
You are so right about being busy...have big project due 7am on Friday at work & am way behind..computer problems, then several of documents that have to be reformatted, are corrupted, so will have to completely retyped from scratch & just learned that part time helper brought in just for this project really doesn't know alot about formatting documents!! Even working on some in evenings all week to try get 'em done on time.
Also..ordered 5 books -- should get by 24th

• Surviving an Affair
  His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage
  Love Busters: Overcoming Habits That Destroy Romantic Love
  Five Steps to Romantic Love: A Workbook for Readers of Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs
  Torn Asunder: Recovering From Extramarital Affairs
  

Again..thanks for interest, support & help!

Good luck tomorrow morning. I'll be waiting, and sympathizing...work is a great/awful distraction, ain't it?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA –You gave me quite alot to mull over & do some serious thinking about, along w/reading. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Got up at 5A, re-read the LB section as well as several of forums/post here..bunches of good advise & information. Especially post by Bob Pure, Ark’s Plan A Tips & Musings and Carrot & Stick..copied them along with any links referenced to CD to print out at work & will find time to read them all in more detail soon!

I too am extremely grateful that finally found ( was lead to?) this site..hope not too late to save M. Know will get good help & advise along with support, ask questions, place to vent.etc. Really need since been separated almost year (1/19 H left)& don't really have anyone feel can discuss & vent to since few have problems of own. Truly sad that there is a need for such a site, but so very thankful it is available!

Several have told me that they feel I am here for reason, which I also believe.. however at this point unable to say it's for really good one.

Can’t wait to get books ordered & start reading. Always been very curious, & inquisitive (sp?) so books were way to learn & answer as well as just entertain, relieve stress or just escape.
Since D-day on 12/18/04 this one of the several things not been able to do or enjoy like did before. My reading instead of watching TV has always been one of many things my H complained about for years. Have also always put my thoughts, feelings, etc on paper kinda like diary or journal, just not on a daily or regular basis..my self help or whatever want to call it.

In the interest of keeping post from being so long, will comment/answer your reply/questions one at time over several postings, since some of them, I have to admit made /are making me do a lot of hard thinking, as well as making me feel alittle defensive for just split second for some reason.

Here goes the first one….(Warning - I am world’s worst speller !)

“Couple of things--have you read the lovebusters section? Might be one of those that you printed out. I picked up in your post that you might have had some problems with angry outbursts. I've been there, done that. No judging here. I know that eliminating LBs was my first step in Plan A.”

Having read LB section again, I do see that I have tendency toward angry outbursts…my defense mechanism it seems, when I’ve been hurt, frustrated not being able to get a point across & on verge of tears…it takes a lot to get me to point of AO, & is usually triggered by something totally unrelated to real issue / problem. When was younger did have a quick temper.

Thanks for your caring, support & advise. Really feel alone!

Great to see you survived the deadline and are back here on your weekend. I believe we are here for more reasons than marriage or infidelity. God brings us together here. Another way he saves, I guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You can write as much as you want. I post long ones, you know. I like how you are going to separate out the questions and answers, though. Will help to contain myself!

You felt a flicker of defensiveness, eh? Good to know. And the AOs are defense-related, also? Does conflict give you the feeling of being attacked, hence, defensive? If I say, "Hey, we're out of toilet paper!" do you hear, "You screwed up and didn't get toilet paper and now I hate you?"

Okay, I'm exaggerating, but I've been there. I've heard attacks when it was only information. I gave AOs and was defensive because I felt responsible for EVERYTHING. Feeling that way, I was always ready for it to be my fault, my shortcoming, my err. I felt justified in bursting out because of all that pressure.

It got worse if I swallowed those "attacks" until I finally burst. Some were real, some weren't. Finding what was a true attack and what wasn't took out a lot of the frustration, reaction, and anger.

Feel less alone now? You've been journaling, which is being a friend to yourself. The more you do it, the better the friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Consider this...when I eliminated my AOs, my H felt safe to state his thoughts and feelings. I felt less attacked knowing they were information not condemnation. One of the reasons H felt safer was because he felt attacked, misunderstood and GUILTY that what he said "made" me react. Viscious cycle. I stopped the AOs without suppressing my anger.

I began stating back to my H what he said. This was so that I had time to discern whether there was an attack, me feeling too responsible, or if it really was just information. This also gave my H a chance to feel heard and to restate if I heard it wrong. If it was just information, I would answer, "Good to know." Because it was. I have no responsiblity in what my H thinks and feels. No burden or culpability. I just want to listen and to know.

90% of the time, it turns out, that's all I needed to do.

If I calmly listened, digested and still felt attacked, I figured out where. "I heard you say you think I'm insensitive. I would appreciate it if you would say, "I believe when you do ____ you are being insensitive. Means a lot to me to know that is your opinion. When you say it the other way, I feel attacked when you state it as a fact. I know I'm not insensitive, but I can act like it sometimes."

Stuff like that. Anyway, now I feel I'm going on too long. But getting the LBs out of my life led me to realize a lot about myself, what I was doing to add to the crazy making of bad communication and self-kicking. I look at eliminating LBs as great self-improvement.

"when I’ve been hurt, frustrated not being able to get a point across & on verge of tears…it takes a lot to get me to point of AO, & is usually triggered by something totally unrelated to real issue / problem. When was younger did have a quick temper."

Frustrated at not being heard? Yeah, I know that one. Another great side-benefit of restating during a conversation is that you really hear and eventually, are really heard. That eliminated my tears during the process. I cry from frustration--when I feel not heard, I feel useless, ignored and invisible. No power. No presence. In other words, YUCKY! So I would cry from those resulting feelings, not from what was being said.

LA

bump

Survived last week’s deadline & on way to making this week’s.
A year ago today came home to find not from H telling me he was leaving; just month after D-day.
Got email from son GF at work today..she’s thinking about leaving him ..will try to post more about this & rest of that part of story this weekend)

I felt/feel a lot of what you described in last post. Don’t know that I felt responsible as much as I was made to feel that way. Also the Yucky feelings.
Trying to remember & try your suggestions.

Books I ordered came today. Which do you suggest I start reading first ?

Ok…Here’s my next installment of replies/answers:

2.) I also picked up that you aren't assertive when it comes to making your own choices. You are leaving this in your H's hands, with loving detachment.

Guess in truth I’m guilty of all LB’s.
As for my not being assertive when comes to making my own choices……leaving this in my H hands, with loving detachment. Was done upon advise based on my understanding after reading “Love Must Be Tough” book.
It was maybe 2 months after D-day & few weeks after H actually left. I was a basket case, barely able to function. Was/am scared alone & trying to accept that man loved, trusted & believed for 40+ years more than anyone else – no longer in- love me. Being my realistic, practical self, knew that w/o his financial support would lose house & all worked so hard so long for since even though I make good money, not enough. One of my worst fears realized – to be alone, old, penniless & homeless! Trying to deal w/ H saying “loved me, but not in-love w/me, that he’d felt that way since before his heart attack in 4/2002, & had faked it since then..that was all about him, not me, denying on his father’s grave there was no one else, unable/unwilling to give me any reason(s)/explanation(s). Since I hadn’t cheated, what could I have done that was so bad??! I did & still am willing to do whatever necessary to save my M!!
In my emotional & mental state knew wasn’t smart to make any major decisions.


3.) And you didn't go to Colorado (which is where I am, but I was reared by Texans, so I would welcome you anyway) because he said you guys couldn't afford for you to miss the week's pay. What was your take on that? I'm not advocating aggression or independent behavior--just wondering how much you choose in your life. To your own code?

From pictures I’ve seen Colorado looks beautiful . Heard some call it “little Texas” so many from here go there. In fact my oldest GD will be moving there in few months so will have lots reasons to visit!
My take on not going to Colorado, at the time and with knowledge had then:
I had just gone back to work full time (40 hrs/wk)after working part time (20hrs/wk) for little over 2 months which along with had put us in bad money bind. Have severe arthritis & herniated disk in my neck since March 1, & had been in severe pain that was like hitting funny bone only 1000s of times worse, numbness in hands.& had to endure it until had tried all convention medicines/treatments before insurance would allow MRI & specialist. So on one hand made sense that the added $500 for me to go would put additional strain on budget, plus as H said the added stress with bills, at work & with kids would take it toll. Had been just year since his heart attack & he hadn’t missed day work since. then
On other hand I was extremely & deeply hurt, jealous, & resentful. I just taken last of my 401K money out to help with finances, but couldn’t afford to spend $500 for me to go???!! (Oh almost forgot did buy a new dishwasher!) Since his heart attack I didn’t want to do anything that upset him, I couldn’t live with the guilt if had & he had another & died!!!

(With knowledge have now I would have gone, regardless!
Hindsight is blessing & curse! Alot things I'd do different.
(Have to figure way to let you read some of H's email after that trip when I expressed my feelings/concerns!)

As for my own code..still thinking about that & will save for later reply.

4.) Same thing for working so many hours in a week. Not because that is a bad thing, but if you choose to do that and then say you can't do something because of it, then it is a problem

As for number of hours worked a week:
as a temp/contractor if don’t work don’t get paid, have no benefits.
Part of the job don’t really have choice being a Admin Asst/Project Sec’y in oil & gas / engineering co
Problem wasn’t just hours, but combined with neck problems as well.
Would like to be hired as permanent employee, but at my age not many companies will & most simply not doing that nowadays, most companies bring in temp/contractor when work load heavy/busy.

5.) A legal separation would give you a better idea as to regular income and budgeting--something that you could choose to do for yourself because you're living by yourself (I know about son and family, but I have to take your choices one bit at a time).

From my research, my understanding that Texas doesn’t have legal separation. So far H has kept his word/promise to continue w/ finances as always. Am working up a agreement/contract for his to sign before notary that will ask lawyer friend to look over first!


Hopefully can post rest this weekend.
Thanks again for your support,& help. Don’t feel as alone now!

Thank you for posting again! No rush or expectation here about how often. When you say your stuff, it's worth the wait. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"A year ago today came home to find not from H telling me he was leaving; just month after D-day." This is an extremely hurtful time in my experience, full of triggers to the pain. I experienced the anniversary of these things (like you, I remember dates of each hurt) as if they were happening again. That's what it felt like. I commiserate with you very much.

As I read your post, I felt that I didn't do a good job in asking you questions. I am reading your response as a defense, and though my intention was not to attack or put more on your shoulders, I need to ask, does it feel that way? Do you feel I'm pointing out places you did something hurtful to your marriage by your actions...not choosing to go to Colorado or not asking your H not to go? Each of the questions you quoted appeared that way to me. Please tell me if you felt defensive. Or, did you feel that I had forgotten, or hadn't read the information in your responses in other posts?

I can't do or say anything to ease your defensiveness, if that is what you are feeling. My part is only to clearly state that my intent is to the best of my ability show you through what I've learned how to see yourself and your life with clarity. I believe clarity is essential in making the decision you came here for. That's my truth.

I'm getting that some of the fears you live with are money-based: Being alone; penniless; homeless; not going to Colorado w/H because of bad financial bind; working while in dire physical pain; working excessive hours; taking care of your children and grandchildren; and seeing these as not your choice, but what you have to do?

Other fears: not being loved, accepted, trusted or believed; do you fear being thought of as lazy or incapable as well? May I ask you if you felt not only the financial pressure to work while having a herniated disk in your neck, but that people do not believe you are in pain when you are?

I also hear the fear of aging and death; the fear of loss. Did you feel that if you didn't work as hard as your H that you would feel less than equal, or a burden?

As to your question about which of your new books to read first, my answer, as you might expect now, whichever you choose. What ever title pulls you the most, that's the one to start with. I staggered across these titles, so I have no idea as to a good order. I'm really not good with order in general, I think. Shows in my posts.

And I have yet to read Dr. Dobson's, "Love Must Be Tough" but it is on my list, too; especially now that you've understood him to be saying that you leave your choices in your H's hand with loving detachment. I can see where you decided to do that when your life was upside down and backwards. Are you saying you still felt that way in two or four more months, or are you saying that you've felt that way until now? (I'll get it from the library this week, snow drift or no.)

A little clarifying for me:

You view yourself as a realistic, practical person. This is what you believe about yourself.

What else do you believe about yourself?

That your actions cause others to react?

Do you believe that you are responsible for your H's happiness or distress?

Do you believe that you stress your H and could cause him another heart attack?

Do you believe you're a hardworker because that is what a good person is, or because you have to do everything you can to get what you need when you need it?

Do you believe that in the end, you can only rely on yourself?

Other beliefs not about yourself:

That stress comes from the outside...money, kids, marriage?

Do you believe you had to do something awful in order for your H to betray you?

That if you try anything and everything, try hard enough, figure it all out, that you'll get what you want most?

Do you believe that love never rejects or abandons?

"even though I make good money, not enough" Who do you believe determines what is enough?

"I was a basket case, barely able to function." Did you miss work? Become depressed and immobile? What does barely able to function mean to you?

I am not challenging your beliefs, but endeavoring to know you. Beliefs are what give us our emotions and determine our decisions. Some are easy to spot and others take a bit of digging. These are the ones I saw in your post.

Back to your fears...did you grow up with these fears? Are they from what you experienced in your childhood?

I didn't know that about Texas and separation. I'm sorry I spoke without knowledge.

I'm pleased you don't feel so alone. I'm definitely committing to being here for you. And yes, that could be a negative thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

P.S. And to think I'm leaving out your son and GF and child. I recognize this as being impactful to your life--they are your family and live with you.

Afternoon….Hope day is off to great start.

Better have a comfortable chair, & settle in.. this will be a loooooonnnnnggg post! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Will finish replies/answers to your 1/10 reply & then address comments/questions from your
1/20/06 reply…

6.) What you do for yourself, including getting counseling even if he won't, well, that speaks a lot for your commitment to the marriage. Think of the marriage as a third-part...it is you, your H, and the marriage. You an honor yourself and your marriage without your H present. You are great at surrendering to God and having him lead you. He led you to information and education. What you do with that is up to you.

• Main thing feel need to do for myself, is go back to Dr for test wanted / needed done since Dec’04..I put off originally due to insurance then after d-day I just haven’t been up to them.
  I would like to lose 30-40 lbs think would help me have more energy, etc. & start some sort of exercise, want to check out Curves, WeightWatchers or Overeaters Anonymous. Maybe get back on AD for while as some days feel really stressed & overwhelmed, just all too much, not able to deal w/ things, want runaway, or Scarlet- worry about them tomorrow, but know not answer.

7.) When you exposed, did you expose to the OW's family? Please don't say that since you didn't have proof, you didn't do it. Let's call it informing. "I believe my H is having an inappropriate friendship with your daughter/mother/wife and I believe it is destructive to my marriage." Stating what you believe, politely, is information. What they/she does with it is not in your control.

• Unfortunately at time had no idea of the possible benefits from exposing, especially since I didn’t & still really don’t have proof. Again, at time & with knowledge had from research / reading understood best not to, in case got back together; I did think about it, but honestly motive was out need for revenge & too hurt, as I felt. Also never liked everyone know my/our personal business & certainly not that H had left me…wasn’t ready to talk about it. Without proof, knew H’s talent for twisting words/things to support/substantiate his point/view so meant exact opposite/ different than what was said or intended & would enable him to come up with excuse,/justification/reply.
  ( does that make any sense??!!) My thought, too was it would seem more like jilted wife whining.etc …so we agreed not to discuss. Since was living w/ his mother, whom I am very close to, I did write her letter. Of course I had to tell kids, since son lives here as well daughter.
  Guess too wanted to behave like lady.

8.) There's a great free support group out there--Al-Anon. You don't have to be married to an alcoholic--you just have been influenced by one in your family (great grandfather/mother?), your children...you name it. Anyway, most people think of it as the place a spouse goes to cope with an addicted H or W. I think of it where you go when you can't see where your control ends and others' begins. It helped me tremendously with being a control freak. And yes, conflict avoiders can be control freaks. It is a very sneaky condition. And it's not a character trait, IMHO.

• Find it alittle spooky & also a sign..that you’d suggest Al-Anon. I was daughter of “weekend alcoholic”. Will check it out!

9.) A.-what changes you want to make,
B.-what you think of Plan A and
C. about what you're facing with your grown son and family in your home.

• A. – Working on this one..
  B. from what read, wish I’d known about it earlier; think might have worked better. Unsure now, since been separated year exactly how to implement it, or if would even be of any benefit.
  C. – have given serious thought to giving them choice…
  Stay, agreeing to pay a agreed upon amount of household expenses on time each & every month, along with discussing annoying behaviors, etc on both side & finding mutually agreeable solution for each.
  Or if not setting certain date for finding their own place.
  Howver recent development ..they are having relationship problems, think she is thinking seriously about leaving..along w/ her grandmother’s cancer returning & being asked to take care of her during her cemo treatments..requiring her to leave her job, but GM willing & able to pay her same salary. No idea how this will play out, so in holding pattern

Now my response/answer to your 1/20/06:


"A year ago today came home to find not from H telling me he was leaving; just month after D-day." This is an extremely hurtful time in my experience, full of triggers to the pain. I experienced the anniversary of these things (like you, I remember dates of each hurt) as if they were happening again. That's what it felt like. I commiserate with you very much.

• You are right about dates triggering pain feeling like was all happening again! That is exactly how I’ve felt.

“As I read your post, I felt that I didn't do a good job in asking you questions. I am reading your response as a defense, and though my intention was not to attack or put more on your shoulders, I need to ask, does it feel that way? Do you feel I'm pointing out places you did something hurtful to your marriage by your actions...not choosing to go to Colorado or not asking your H not to go? Each of the questions you quoted appeared that way to me. Please tell me if you felt defensive. Or, did you feel that I had forgotten, or hadn't read the information in your responses in other posts?

I can't do or say anything to ease your defensiveness, if that is what you are feeling. My part is only to clearly state that my intent is to the best of my ability show you through what I've learned how to see yourself and your life with clarity. I believe clarity is essential in making the decision you came here for. That's my truth.”

• Guess I did feel abit defensive as you did point out things I thought about, as I am realistic enough to know that some thing(s) I did/did not do contributed to our circumstances of our situation, so thought by providing my reasons/reasoning at time might better understand thus be in better place to help/advise me. Believe that I need to be aware of thing(s) I did / did not do , to accept, grow & move forward. Hope that makes sense

• Difficulty for me is trying to understand how I was suppose to know what issue(s)/problem(s) were, if they weren’t presented / expressed in such manner that they could clearly be understood as well as their importance….then when I did express my concerns/feelings only assurances that all was fine, &/or were dismissed..just get over it & get back to normal.
  Can/should I be expected to correct issue(s)/problem(s) if not even aware is one, much less what is ??

“I'm getting that some of the fears you live with are money-based: Being alone; penniless; homeless; not going to Colorado w/H because of bad financial bind; working while in dire physical pain; working excessive hours; taking care of your children and grandchildren;

• Hadn’t thought about it until now, but yes, guess come of my fears are money-based. Maybe lack of security? Thank God I have never been homeless, but have experienced not having money for necessities & what it’s like to be poor and hope never have to experience it again. I have never been truly alone & on my own.

and seeing these as not your choice, but what you have to do?“

• Did have choice in some , just didn’t like them…but more like expected to do.

“And I have yet to read Dr. Dobson's, "Love Must Be Tough" but it is on my list, too; especially now that you've understood him to be saying that you leave your choices in your H's hand with loving detachment. I can see where you decided to do that when your life was upside down and backwards. Are you saying you still felt that way in two or four more months, or are you saying that you've felt that way until now? (I'll get it from the library this week, snow drift or no.)”

• I’m saying that felt that way even now in some ways.. I took marriage vows very seriously…so part of me feels that this is the “better or worst”, “ in sickness & in health” parts;
  part is that I need to know that I have tried/done everything possible to save marriage as still love H
  part of me has had enough know for my own well being should move on.

A little clarifying for me:
You view yourself as a realistic, practical person. This is what you believe about yourself.
What else do you believe about yourself?

That I am honest-to fault, trust worthy, loyal, dependable, responsible


That your actions cause others to react?

• Yes.

Do you believe that you are responsible for your H's happiness or distress?

• To certain degree, yes

Do you believe that you stress your H and could cause him another heart attack?

• At times

Do you believe you're a hard worker because that is what a good person is, or because you have to do everything you can to get what you need when you need it?

• Hard worker because I enjoy working, & is what person has to do to survive.

Do you believe that in the end, you can only rely on yourself?

• Yes

Other beliefs not about yourself:

That stress comes from the outside...money, kids, marriage?

• No not totally. Some is from within.

Do you believe you had to do something awful in order for your H to betray you?

• Yes

That if you try anything and everything, try hard enough, figure it all out, that you'll get what you want most?

• Like to think that, but know really not true

Do you believe that love never rejects or abandons?

• Like to, know better

"even though I make good money, not enough" Who do you believe determines what is enough?

• Each of us…what I meant by ‘not enough’, what I earn isn’t enough to cover my being able to stay in home, or make it on my own to cover the basics, housing, food, transportation, utilities, phone, etc.

"I was a basket case, barely able to function." Did you miss work? Become depressed and immobile?

• Yes, was very depressed did miss couple of days work

What does barely able to function mean to you?

• To me that means feeling overwhelmed, Hunable to think about much else- thought about 24/7, couldn’t eat, trouble sleeping, didn’t want to be around people, cried a lot. Thought I was handling/dealing with ok, but when almost lost job, due to lots of mistakes in my work knew time to get help!

I am not challenging your beliefs, but endeavoring to know you. Beliefs are what give us our emotions and determine our decisions. Some are easy to spot and others take a bit of digging. These are the ones I saw in your post.

Back to your fears...did you grow up with these fears? Are they from what you experienced in your childhood?

• Yes some of them. Also some from my mother’s experiences after my day died

I'm pleased you don't feel so alone. I'm definitely committing to being here for you. And yes, that could be a negative thing.

• How/ Why would your definitely committing to being here for me be a negative thing?

I’ve done alittle reading in books I ordered. Started with “Surviving An Affair”, “His Needs, Her Needs” & “Love Busters” ….. although haven’t finished any of them….relate to a lot, especially in “Love Busters” (These should be required reading, with exam for all couples before can get married!!!)
Trying to figure out what His Needs were that I failed to meet, & which of my habits, behaviors, & other LB, added to them. Able to see that a lot of my actions were reactions/ non actions to his!
Wonder since been separated for year not sure if or how Plan A work at this point.


Hope haven’t put you to sleep with this long post! You made me do a lot of thinking, but feel better & definitely agree with you that need to be able to see myself & my life with clarity ! Hope able to make sense out of it.. have helped me already. Look forward to your next post!
Can’t thank you enough! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />