Wow, are you efficient or what? I feel so heard and respected in your reply. Thank you! (Now, when are you sending the comfy chair?)

How did you make your replies indented? It was a breeze for me to read. I soooo want to emulate you. Let me in on it.

That efficiency really shows in your mind, too. I saw a lot of emotionality in your previous posts. This one "how I was suppose to know what issue(s)/problem(s) were, if they weren’t presented / expressed in such manner that they could clearly be understood as well as their importance…"

Wow. Where did the "suppose" come from? You married another conflict avoider who didn't tell you his thoughts or feelings, share is internal conflict and issues with you. That's what it sounds like. You had no information to act on. I wasn't asking you what you were supposed to have done--what you did is what you did; what he didn't do, he didn't. No changing that. I'm with you. What I'm mostly asking of you is not what you could've done, but your perspective at the time and has it changed? Do you allow yourself more freedom to just be? Not as a caretaking action person, but a whole and lovable human being seperate from what you do?

This is good to know, too:

"Guess I did feel abit defensive..."

Do you often have that feeling, from others, that they are questioning/attacking your reality? That you're at fault somehow for their emotions and actions?

I hear you putting off the doctor; I did that for five years with what looked exactly like breast cancer. It wasn't. Can't tell you what a jolt of self-respect I got back when I made myself get to the cancer clinic and find out it wasn't. I want that for you--my experience. I have no idea of your condition, just thought I'd throw in my experience to say I'm not bashing you. Good self-caretaking takes time. Don't waste anymore, though, 'k?

I did the joining the gym, having the membership for six months before actually going thing. Know what I found out? It was like salvation. I hated gyms before that (just on theory alone), and making myself walk ten minutes on a treadmill when I started was my maximum sacrfice. But I picked a gym close to my house, that had hot tubs and wet and dry saunas. Oh, my! For my ten minutes on treadmill, I rewarded myself with an hour in the tubs and saunas. Then I got up to 20 minutes, and so on. Within seven months, I was working out with alternating days of weights and cardio for an hour, then rewarding myself for that last hour with stretch outs. I found that I had stopped focusing on losing weight and began yearning for the time because I found out what profound emotional relief there is in physical exercise. Numbed my mind so pleasantly, opened my heart, and in the bargain I lost 70 lbs and gained 25 pounds of muscle. It was heaven.

I've fallen off in the last three months and am putting it back on. Wanna be my online partner in that? LOL Okay, just asking.

"Can/should I be expected to correct issue(s)/problem(s) if not even aware is one, much less what is ??"

Your responsibility is to know your own issues, share and research them. Not his. You do it for you, for the person you've wanted to be, instead of within a reactive thought-pattern and emotional pattern with him. It's like a surgery you do yourself. VERY carefully. Seems to me like you were trying to be the wife/mother/provider/companion the best way you thought you should be. Txgal, roles can tend to stepover selves. You're only responsible for you. No bashing or should haves here. Al-Anon showed me that. A little nudge from God that it saved me?

With your son, his GF and GC...sounds like a perfect plan. Also seems to me that you are attempting to control the situation based on reactions and choices outside of your control. When you give them a choice, with all the care and consideration you put into it, you always hand them the respect of that choice. It's theirs. They are responsible for their lives and choices. You might feel you're compounding something sensitive by your timing; the what-ifs and changes at this stressful time. Let me ask you, were there other stresses stopping you before, in their lives?

Now that you recognize the money-based (security...you nailed it) fears, you can work with yourself and look at your reality. You've been poor. Deprived. Sacrificed. You survived. Part of security fears, I find, is that they are always based on what-ifs and what I can't stand...but really, I withstood and am not enduring it again. Being open to yourself, knowing you can get along on many levels of income and not die (I know that sounds ridiculous, but fears are), frees you in your choices because they become rooted in reality, not fear. Something I battled and was feeling in you.

Doctor and individual counseling as self-care. Hmmm. Feeling nagged yet? The control freak in me showing? ((((TxGal2))))) I'm concerned that you've evolved this incredible threshold for physical and emotional pain. Hence, my concern. You are worthy, valuable and not defective in anyway. Yeah, I'm repeating myself.

I am not attacking, but I want to show your concerns back to yourself in your words:

"supposed to" "expected to" "what should have" "trust worthy, loyal, dependable, responsible" Where did your idea of a good person come from? Who helped you make up all the ingredients? Use your honest-to-a-fault quality here.

"did miss couple of days work" Ohmygosh. TxGal? You were in incredible physical pain and you missed...a couple days of work? Holy terror, Batman! (I have no idea where that came from in me...must be the stomach flu from today.)

Let me know if you feel you have any extremist behaviors? No bashing, just urgently want you to realize that your ideal person may not be ideal. It wasn't until you almost lost your job that you decided to get help. You didn't believe your miserableness was worth it alone. Jobs can be our symbols of what is expected, supposed to be, and how we are thought of. Lot more than income. Losing that was what got to you. You, yourself, were not valued enough. Just want to be clear on this. I know you're smart and reasonable and will wonder about this, won't you?

"How/ Why would your definitely committing to being here for me be a negative thing?" Wow, you don't see me as a huge pain in the butt yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So, I still have some self-issues I'm working on. Heehee.

I'm with on a required course of Harley's Lovebusters in all schools! Definitely! And a retake exam, with HNHN for marrying couples. I did give that book as a wedding present to my oldest son.

Thank you for being so honest in your response to your beliefs. Did you look up any Al-Anon meetings yet? You can do it online!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, when you post this week, you'll have two appts set up, right? One for doc and heart doc? Heart would be the shrink, in my estimation. My heart breaks for some of them...you causing your H's affair, that you cause others to react, etc. But my heart is still intact and I know that as you examine your beautiful self, you'll see they were formed long before your H. How old were you when your dad died?

Thank YOU for sharing. Means a lot to me.

LA

Morning..LA

At work reading reply..but have question/ need clarification on :

• "What I'm mostly asking of you is not what you could've done, but your perspective at the time and has it changed?"

My perspective on exactly what at the time?
guess little dense this am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Later .. Have a great day!

Afternoon, TxGal!

I'm not at work, but at home recovering from last night. You're not dense. You're honest and smart enough to get understand before you attempt to make yourself understood. That's a tenet in life that is worth keeping to, I believe.

Your perspective...how you look at yourself, and thereby, life. All your interactions. If your perspective is, "If I do this, I might get this reaction, or this one." Your perspective is, like you said above, that you cause stuff to happen--people's reactions. Has that changed in anyway? Along with assessing what your relationship was with your H, you get to find out what you were thinking at the time. Usually, we carry one perspective our whole lives, rarely changing it. When you hear or see something that alerts you to how you view it, an "Ah ha!" moment happens. Those are the times we change our perspective. First, recognizing it, then shifting it a little.

Difficult for me to explain because of the way I worded the question. See, I hear you very reactive to feeling blamed. That's a perspective. You can feel blame where it isn't and validly, have been blamed for a lot of stuff that wasn't your fault. Finding what was your reality and what was your perspective that made it your reality, well, that isn't for the faint of heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For instance, had you had the perspective that your H was responsible for his heart attack, his choices afterwards, his own stress management--then you wouldn't have feared causing him to have another. That perspective doesn't say you don't have influence, but that's all it is, influence. Your encouragement and care of him, coming from love and respect, with a solid acknowledgement that he has his own reactions just as you have your own, might be an issue you are still struggling with. Change the perspective and see it from another angle. How does that feel?

I hope you're having a physically comfortable and pleasant day, as well. I'm still euphoric to be out of pain; just the remnant feeling of having been run over by a very large truck. Are you scheduling your dr's appt, even as I type?

<---a nag at heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Hi, LA

Clarification... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Gee..just wanted a "simple" reply..I'm learning you like to think...a true "nag at heart"!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
'K, I'll work on it.

Gotta get back to the grindstone...

I have my own clarity problem. I'm working on it. I do explain too much, mostly because each time, I'm checking it from beginning to end for myself, holding it true for me.

Has nothing to do with you!

LOL

Want to help me with that?

Grind away...

LA

Howdy, LA


Hope you are over your stomach flu..yuk,yuk! & feeling terrific !!

Ok..ready, set..here's my replies ( most of them, still working on the "perspective" thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )


1.) Wow, are you efficient or what? I feel so heard and respected in your reply. Thank you! (Now, when are you sending the comfy chair?)

• I can be efficient & organized ..also detailed oriented, which is not always a good thing.;o(
  Comfy chair will be on it's way..as soon as my ship comes in or win lottery !

2.) How did you make your replies indented? It was a breeze for me to read. I soooo want to emulate you. Let me in on it.

• Will have to figure out how I did it & let you know...sleep couple time since then !
  Ahh..light bulb went off...
  in edit put curser at beginning of what you want to indent,
  then click on list start
  now put curser at end of what you want to indent,
  then click on list end

3.) " What I'm mostly asking of you is not what you could've done....but your perspective at the time and has it changed?"

• Dictionary defines perspective = view / position: a way of regarding situations or topics etc
  Still thinking / working on it ---not sure about this one..

4.) Do you allow yourself more freedom to just be? Not as a caretaking action person, but a whole and lovable human being separate from what you do?

• Yeah, way too much for most of time in the last year..just sitting on my b??.
  ..quite honestly have let alot of things go, not had alot of motivation, or energy to do some things want &/or always enjoyed doing - sewing, crafts, reading... just happy to sit, write or watch TV.

5.) "Guess I did feel abit defensive..."
Do you often have that feeling, from others, that they are questioning/attacking your reality? That you're at fault somehow for their emotions and actions?

• Really depends on subject, how others phrase/ ask, their tone, as well as my frame of mind etc.
  Yes to a certain degree as believe that our words, actions, etc. are like ripple effect of throwing stone into pond.where ripples spread in ever widening circle until reach all edges of the pond..

6.) "I hear you putting off the doctor; I did that for five years with what looked exactly like breast cancer. ........... Good self-caretaking takes time. Don't waste anymore, though, 'k?"

• Need to get thru next month financially, before start scheduling the tests needed. ( think 3-4 @ $250 out of pocket) Will need to see my GP, especially if continue having days like did last week where felt totally overwhelmed, extremely nervous, etc. & get back on AD. & also for my neck - herniated disk- as it's been bothering me alttle, so need that Rx as well. Keep after me!!

7.) "I did the joining the gym, having the membership for six months before actually going thing. Know what I found out? It was like salvation. I hated gyms before that (just on theory alone)........... I've fallen off in the last three months and am putting it back on. Wanna be my online partner in that? "

• Did find there is a Curves near house & one close to work..just need to pay them visit & see if think with my neck & foot problem would be able to do their program. Know I need to get moving, cut down on food intake ( also aware that I use it for comfort) Just don't have the will power like I use to. By time get home & cook between 7-8p before eat, so been just eating whatever son's GF cooks..tacos, enchiladas, tostadas, spanish rice, etc.
  When days get longer, will try walking again.

8.) ' "Can/should I be expected to correct issue(s)/problem(s) if not even aware is one, much less what is ??"
Your responsibility is to know your own issues, share and research them. Not his. You do it for you, for the person you've wanted to be, instead of within a reactive thought-pattern and emotional pattern with him. It's like a surgery you do yourself. VERY carefully. Seems to me like you were trying to be the wife/mother/provider/companion the best way you thought you should be. Txgal, roles can tend to stepover selves. You're only responsible for you. No bashing or should haves here. Al-Anon showed me that. A little nudge from God that it saved me?'

• I understand that I need to figure out, learn, research my issues & share them.
  What I was asking with this question was more about how to know what were/are his LBs, ENs, etc .

9) "With your son, his GF and GC...sounds like a perfect plan. Also seems to me that you are attempting to control the situation based on reactions and choices outside of your control .......... Let me ask you, were there other stresses stopping you before, in their lives?"

• Yes, seem always some stress/drama going on in their lives -

• Didn't feel I was trying to control situation.. just give them choices & make them aware that if decide to stay, there would be house rules that would need to abide by, as well as household duties needing to be done weekly basis , instead of repeatedly being put off or left for me to do,( really bad last 6 months) which to me indicates lack of respect .

10.) " Now that you recognize the money-based (security...you nailed it) fears, you can work with yourself and look at your reality "

• Yes, I have been poor, deprived & sacrificed as well as working hard, so that I would never have to experience that again. Not sure at this stage/time in my life I am strong enough or have resources to get thru it ...

11.) A -' " I am not attacking, but I want to show your concerns back to yourself in your words:"supposed to" "expected to" "what should have" "trust worthy, loyal, dependable, responsible" '
Where did your idea of a good person come from?
Who helped you make up all the ingredients?

• The "Golden Rule", my grandmother & mother influenced, along with my own experiences, all contributed to my idea/opinion of what good person should strive to be

B. (1)' "did miss couple of days work" 'Ohmygosh. TxGal? You were in incredible physical pain and you missed...a couple days of work? "
(2) Let me know if you feel you have any extremist behaviors? No bashing, just urgently want you to realize that your ideal person may not be ideal.
(3) It wasn't until you almost lost your job that you decided to get help. You didn't believe your miserableness was worth it alone. Jobs can be our symbols of what is expected, supposed to be, and how we are thought of. Lot more than income. Losing that was what got to you. You, yourself, were not valued enough. Just want to be clear on this. I know you're smart and reasonable and will wonder about this, won't you?

• Honestly..trust me when I say that when I went to work, the pain was bearable...I am a major wimp when it comes to pain-do not handle it well.
  As for other extremist behaviors...guess that would depend on whose point of view...but I don't think so...
  Almost losing my job made me get help only because made me realize the mistakes in my work, when I really & truly thought/believed I was handling it & since obvious that I indeed was not that did need to get help to do so. I do & have always taken pride in my work, job I do, but don't / never have thought/believe job I did/had defined who I was or my value.

12.) " Wow, you don't see me as a huge pain in the butt yet?"

• No yet.. will admit some of questions force me to look at myself..as they say,
  "truth hurts"!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> (Only been in past few years I've taken to wanting to burying my head in sand at times, so this will be a good thing in the long run! )

13.)" Did you look up any Al-Anon meetings yet ?"

• Yes., but need to look again & print out locations, time, etc.

14.) " How old were you when your dad died? "

• Almost 27 yrs old...he died in May & I turned 27 in Sept.

It is forecast to be rainy here this weekend, so hope to have some quiet time to read & nap..

Eagerly awaiting your comments, questions.
Have question .. by having me focus on myself.is that your way of telling me

• that in my case too late for Plan A ?

• don't see much hope after us being separated for year?

Gota run to a 2hour class & hope don't fall asleep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Have a great Friday!

TxGal,

You wrote these questions:

"Is it too late to try Plan A"

"How do I carry out Plan A, if have no idea what our "few little problems" were, since still refuses to discuss them?"

"If I don't know what I did wrong, how can I begin to change ?"

• I side-stepped them because they perplexed me. You read Harley's material on this website, got excited and wanted to save your marriage, after having been separated a year. Then you ask if you should do Plan A...and will it help if you don't know what to fix, and if you don't know what you did wrong...
  
  What do you think of Plan A? Do you feel up to being the BS and in essence, wooing your H back to the marriage? I'm summarizing because I'm tired. Sorry. It's not wooing, per se, but being your best self; stopping your LBs, meeting his ENs, etc.
  
  I heard a lot of pain in your answers to my questions. I also hear a dedication for your 38-year-marriage.
  
  I took the approach to understand better what you were asking--your thoughts and feelings. You feel responsible for his A. I can't make you believe differently. You both were responsible for the state of your marriage before the A. He chose the A. You weren't responsible for it. He could have chosen marriage counseling, getting all those books you now have, talking to you, etc. He chose. You didn't.
  
  You are a Christian, so let me ask this of you. If you were to ask God these same questions, paraphrased to be, "If I do this Plan A, will it even work after being separated for a year?" What would he say? "All things are possible through Christ Jesus."
  
  When he left the note and moved out, you said you made the condition that any contact had to be initiated by him. Is that still in place? That would essentially be that you went into Plan B, somewhat. To switch to Plan A, you need to initiate contact. Do you know if the A is still active or if there is someone new in his life? I can't grasp this arrangement well enough to advise you. I just thought I'd start with the last question which stunned me...

"If I don't know what I did wrong, how can I begin to change ?"

• TxGal, this is what you said to him when he gave you the "I love you but not in love with you anymore" fog speech. Why is it you did wrong? How do you make another person say that to you? You can't. They do it. It's about them.
  
  I asked you questions to look at who you are, how you see yourself, why you make the choices you do, and why you believe you cause/cure/control so much in your world.
  
  You said you left the decision in your H's hands. Sounds like you were willing to accept him returning to the marriage and recovery or to let him go. Were you willing to accept him not deciding?
  
  You write. You write well. Try to compose a letter of acknowledgement...this is where we are at, this is what I've learned about myself, and this is where I would love to be...in a great marriage with you.
  
  Before the A, did you regularly share your thoughts and feelings with your H? Feel safe to have different opinons, feel respected, understood and accepted? And were you all these things for your H?
  
  That's where I was going with all the questions...if you believe you cause other people's choices, then conversely, you believe they cause your choices. Our human pathways can't go one way out and a different way back.
  
  So no, I wasn't asking you all those questions because I thought Plan A was too late. I woudn't know. From my perspective, I think learning about your own behavior and decisions to grow is a solid endeavor. Understanding your own ENs and your H's would be great information. Understanding how relationships work, about the four Rules, the lovebank, LBs in myself and others, enhanced my life.
  
  My marriage is saved and I believe we have a bright future. I see the way into and through this process as self-discovery, comprehending respect and living from a personal code. It's all I could do. I have to focus on myself because that's the only person I'm responsible for and have control over.

"Able to see that a lot of my actions were reactions/ non actions to his! Wonder since been separated for year not sure if or how Plan A work at this point."

• Do you two interact? Sounds like you do. If you change how you react/non-react in the usual pattern, you alter the course of your relationship. Stopping the LBs is a big one.

"about how to know what were/are his LBs, ENs, etc."

• You know his ENs, I believe. Do you not think you can meet them in some way?

"Honestly..trust me when I say"

• I do trust you. I felt it through my woosy pain level. I projected there. Sorry about that.

Hope you had success in staying awake during class. And yes, the whole family is now over the stomach flu and it was Yuk! Yuk! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA

My 2 hour class turned out to be really interesting & informative..learned a few new tricks for using the software.

Glad to hear that all family is over the stomach bug.
For last 2 weeks or so, my bunch has had really bad cold/flu/upper respiratory/lost voice thing..started w/GD who also had ear infection in both ears added to hers, then her mom & now my son. I’m keeping my fingers crossed & praying that passes me by!

With our weather forecast today to be 80% chance of rain, w/possible severe T-storms & up to 2” in rain possible..sounds like good excuse to spend day replying to your last post, & if time after that maybe reading, watching TV, taking nap(s), & just vegging out..enjoying peace ,quiet & being alone which is rare!. (all have gone to wedding shower of best friend of son’s GF.)

Once again you have caused me to do some deep digging, soul searching & thinking..
Also I now understand where you were headed with questions. as well as why & have to admit agree, that it makes sense….

Few comments / clarification ( honest – didn’t feel defensive this time!)

I am truly happy that your marriage is saved & able to see a bright future ahead.
That is what I am hoping & praying for with all my heart & soul !!

First -- since d-day have been willing to do my very best to do any & everything, whatever necessary rebuild/save marriage –that has been/is my goal. As regardless of outcome, I must know that I tried to do all could possibly could, with unconditional love for H.

Since d-day, I was a complete mental & emotional wreck- trying to understand, make sense, searching to find answers & help, in world shattered & I am like ship on sea w/o a rutter in uncharted waters { Needed AD meds to be able to function, something never experienced before - - maybe on verse of nervous breakdown.}

From information I read & found....

- Followed what I understood from advice presented

- know that while it was by his choices/decisions that we are in this situation, also smart enough to know that I contributed to it by my actions/re-actions/lack action. which allowed him to justify his choices/decisions/actions & appease his guilt in making his choices/decisions.

-that I had/have no control over anyone, but me

In finding & reading books & material here, & from you understand & know that need to work on me .. was simply looking for a small ray of hope trying to sort all out.





Now to your post…
<><><>><>>>>>>><>><>>
TxGal,
You wrote these questions:
"Is it too late to try Plan A"
"How do I carry out Plan A, if have no idea what our "few little problems" were, since still refuses to discuss them?"
"If I don't know what I did wrong, how can I begin to change ?"
I side-stepped them because they perplexed me. You read Harley's material on this website, got excited and wanted to save your marriage, after having been separated a year. Then you ask if you should do Plan A...and will it help if you don't know what to fix, and if you don't know what you did wrong...

What do you think of Plan A? Do you feel up to being the BS and in essence, wooing your H back to the marriage? I'm summarizing because I'm tired. Sorry. It's not wooing, per se, but being your best self; stopping your LBs, meeting his ENs, etc.

• Wish learned about it sooner, but in some small ways have followed it by trying to be patience, upbeat, cheerful, no anger, judgement, etc during conversations & meetings.

I heard a lot of pain in your answers to my questions. I also hear a dedication for your 38-year-marriage.

• There is a lot of pain..but extremely difficult as after almost 44 yrrs, there is hardly anything that doesn’t cause me to think of him, almost 24/7

I took the approach to understand better what you were asking--your thoughts and feelings. You feel responsible for his A. I can't make you believe differently. You both were responsible for the state of your marriage before the A. He chose the A. You weren't responsible for it. He could have chosen marriage counseling, getting all those books you now have, talking to you, etc. He chose. You didn't.

• Maybe if try to put my thoughts & feelings at time down & where I think I am now would help??

• My head knows better, but heart has trouble

You are a Christian, so let me ask this of you. If you were to ask God these same questions, paraphrased to be, "If I do this Plan A, will it even work after being separated for a year?" What would he say? "All things are possible through Christ Jesus."

• Yes, think He’d say that along with perhaps – “all things happen for reason”. Seem to remember from Bible study years ago, there were several but only one recall at moment is purification...

When he left the note and moved out, you said you made the condition that any contact had to be initiated by him. Is that still in place? That would essentially be that you went into Plan B, somewhat. To switch to Plan A, you need to initiate contact.
Do you know if the A is still active or if there is someone new in his life? I can't grasp this arrangement well enough to advise you. I just thought I'd start with the last question which stunned me...

"If I don't know what I did wrong, how can I begin to change ?"

• Was getting mixed messages from H words & actions at time - , felt used, that needed few boundaries to protect myself

• They still attend dances together, but no idea or way of knowing / proving anything beyond that.

TxGal, this is what you said to him when he gave you the "I love you but not in love with you anymore" fog speech. Why is it you did wrong? How do you make another person say that to you? You can't. They do it. It's about them.
I asked you questions to look at who you are, how you see yourself, why you make the choices you do, and why you believe you cause/cure/control so much in your world.

• Need to keep asking myself these questions,

• look at who I am,
  how you see myrself,
  why I make the choices I do,
  why I believe I cause/cure/control so much in my world – if I in truly do & never knew it!
  until / so can truly see & understand

You said you left the decision in your H's hands. Sounds like you were willing to accept him returning to the marriage and recovery or to let him go. Were you willing to accept him not deciding?

• Honestly never occurred to me about him just not deciding, but does seem to be what he has done.

You write. You write well. Try to compose a letter of acknowledgement...this is where we are at, this is what I've learned about myself, and this is where I would love to be...in a great marriage with you.

• Again uncanny you saying this as I have been working on just that kind of letter off & on since last fall. Along with trying to get information from H on financial status.
  Will definitely continue. . Thanks for the comment about my writing well.

Before the A, did you regularly share your thoughts and feelings with your H? Feel safe to have different opinons, feel respected, understood and accepted? And were you all these things for your H?

• Have to think about this some more.
  At time thought I did these for H, but realize from LBs wasn’t really.

That's where I was going with all the questions...if you believe you cause other people's choices, then conversely, you believe they cause your choices. Our human pathways can't go one way out and a different way back.

So no, I wasn't asking you all those questions because I thought Plan A was too late. I woudn't know. From my perspective, I think learning about your own behavior and decisions to grow is a solid endeavor. Understanding your own ENs and your H's would be great information. Understanding how relationships work, about the four Rules, the lovebank, LBs in myself and others, enhanced my life.

• I have to agree with all of the above. Will work more on understanding my ENs & LBs
  And try to determine exactly what his ENs are!

My marriage is saved and I believe we have a bright future. I see the way into and through this process as self-discovery, comprehending respect and living from a personal code. It's all I could do. I have to focus on myself because that's the only person I'm responsible for and have control over.

"Able to see that a lot of my actions were reactions/ non actions to his! Wonder since been separated for year not sure if or how Plan A work at this point."

Do you two interact? Sounds like you do. If you change how you react/non-react in the usual pattern, you alter the course of your relationship. Stopping the LBs is a big one.

• Yes, guess could call it interacting. H emails / calls fairly often. I email him jokes, etc but only call if question about bills, problem around house, or something to do with kids.

"about how to know what were/are his LBs, ENs, etc."
You know his ENs, I believe. Do you not think you can meet them in some way?

• Feel I able better able to identify my LB towards him. & towards each other
  Believe need to do a lot more work on me before can try to identify his ENs

"Honestly..trust me when I say"
I do trust you. I felt it through my woosy pain level. I projected there. Sorry about that.

Hope you had success in staying awake during class. And yes, the whole family is now over the stomach flu and it was Yuk! Yuk!

LA

><><><><><>>><


Hope you will bear with me & haven’t changed your mind about
being “definitely committing to being here for me”

Thanks as always for your help & support, know will get there just may take me while longer!

Happy Saturday, Con!

Good to know about class beating your expectations, and that you get some quality me-time. :::spraying Lysol down your throat::: to avoid the yucky sickness stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"didn’t feel defensive this time" This says more about you than about me. You're choosing to see me as helpful and not attacking. You did that. Excellent choice (I think!). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Very good to hear that.

What do you think about initiating more contact with your H? Asking him on dates, over for dinner, non-children-related? How does that feel to you?

Realizing that your H decided not to decide, what are your plans? Do you know you have the choice? You can decide to save your marriage. Open dialogue, attempt to fill his ENs, ask him to move back home for a year's trial run again. Explain your boundaries, your knowledge, and your hope of a really great marriage. You can decide what actions you want to take, what words you want to use and do it. You have to let go of the results...not base what you say and do on what his response might be, but what will be the authentic you.

You can choose to send him a daily email composed about your thoughts and feelings. How would that feel?

And I do understand very much how difficult it is for you to take your focus off of him since that's where it was for so many years! I believe you can do it and that it won't be easy. Not at all. Even if you've done it 44 years, though, I guarantee that once you really practice this control of focus, that within just one year, you can get there completely. Doesn't take another 44 years, isn't that cool?

I'm reconfirming your hope that I'm there for you. I have no expectations of what you should or will do. You won't disappoint me or cause me pain. You can lash out if you feel hurt by my words, be angry, happy, sad...however you feel, you can say. My response will still be appreciation for the effort you took to tell me.

LA

Not sure where to start….Been a really stressful, tension filled, nerve wrecking since posted last.


Son stopped for not using turn signal & went to jail on warrant for unpaid speeding ticket, so missed work on Monday 1/20 due to getting him out & lack of sleep worrying…the Mom thing.,
(Even being out a day, still got over 40 hours this week! Love paycheck, but long hours are beginning to bother & depress me.. Shouldn’t complain, as know I’m blessed to at least I have a good job that’s close to home., which I enjoy most of time)

WH went downtown to pay fine ..talked w/ me on cell phone off & on all time, almost 2 hours.

Then there is L, son’s GF who is openly talking/text messaging (TM) her new OM, but saying/writing notes that she loves him, wants to stay w/ him, but out most nights has left with various excuses .. visiting her Mom, Aunt, brother, etc. & few staying all night coming in at 8-9a several time week. Don’t think he’s going to put up that much longer, but for now tension in house can be cut with knife. We’ve discussed that if they work thing out & stay a lot of things concerning house cleaning/clutter, chores, etc will have to change. He agreed.


Guess one good thing to come out of all this, son has been talking/TM his “Pop & WH has been calling to talk/discuss kids, other things. w/ me, vent, etc. about his work issues, ask for my help w/ setting up spreadsheet for him, etc. ????

• Admitted during talks last few days about kids that he is “conflict avoider”…not sure but curious as to where he learned this term.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

• Also said he know it’s like I was hit between eyes with a 2x4 !!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Back in November, when invitation for Holiday celebration were emailed, I sent to WH, asking if thought I should go, just to make conversation. About 1 or so, later he calls me & asks if I have a date for that night, & when I said no, he ask if he could take me. Went & had good time ,.
So, on Thurs. 1/26, when got invite for company sponsored lst oil celebration for project I was on when worked here in ’04, for night of dinner, dancing & gambling. Emailed it to him & ask if he’d be interested/consider offering his services as escort. Didn’t get reply until following Tues, when I emailed him that had to know to RSVP..said he had other plans.
Then this past weekend he called me to say that his business trip to the valley had been cancelled & he’d love to go & was looking forward to it. Will report how it goes.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Since last time posted I’ve been doing a lot of thinking, reading – some of your & other posts here, books, more thinking. Even read back thru email talks we’ve had over past 2 years ( not sure why I saved them, but something at time told me too!)
as well as some of our recent phone conversations.
Notice there were several times he mentioned my being on diet, that he was "proud of me, to stick with it – would change my life, I (he) promise(d)". ..so figure that was one of his ENs I wasn’t meeting
He’s also said he "looking for the little girl he married"..not size – weighed about 100 lbs when got married..for about 10 years now I’ve been fighting a losing battle with my 40-50 lbs need & want to lose.
His other EN I failed to meet, was keeping house neat…really gotten back past few years, have way too much stuff & not enough room for it, made even worse since son’s GF been here.

Believe my best course of action would be

• Write him letter - get all the negative stuff have stored up out

• Then send letter to his brothers, sisters & all the club members, etc to expose ( would need help in wording it since really don’t have definite proof )

& while his temper cools & hopefully the dusts settles…

• Work myself, why I do / react as I do
  go on / stick to diet to lost 30-40 lbs –figure way to curb appetite ,

• Get new hairdo /color –cover gray hair,
  & work what I think are his ENs I failed to met,

• By taking one room a month & de-junking/de-cluttering, cleaning, it

as well as do my best not to LBs.
showing by my actions I am serious about them.

• Contact him by phone/email just to talk & not just to deliver negative news all the time.

It’s late gotta run & get things ready for work tomorrow.
Suggestions for some safe conversation topics for Saturday??
As always looking forward to comments, questions,suggestions,advice whatever.
about my plan.
Have a great day.

Hopefully wouldn’t be as long ‘til my next post & things around house will improve soon!

Missed you, Gal!

Nice to see your post. Great news on Saturday. What did you talk about at the holiday date? Same stuff might work. You can find things you really admire about him--his appearance that night, his increasing communication, how you appreciate him, enjoy his company as the night progresses (which sounds exactly like my H's holiday party..dinner, drinks, awards and Texas Hold'em). I would steer away from any talk of son/GF, etc. unless he brings it up, and then I would just listen and repeat.

I think you're doing awesome...but one thing...about that letter..."Write him letter - get all the negative stuff have stored up out" I would definitely write the letter, but maybe not send it?

Up to you. Your life.

As for dieting...my way was to make time for exercise. I couldn't fix my behavior with more control and deprivation. I could wear myself out at the gym, come home too tired to eat and fall into bed. Since I wasn't eating after 5pm every weekday, I lost over 100 lbs, slowly, with no hanging skin, and put on about 30 lbs of muscle...which then helps keep the calories burning.

Great stress reliever, too. Best I've found. Promotes deeper sleep, kicks in the growth hormone which repairs damaged cells (face lines, eyes, etc.) and got down to a size 8 from a 22. I'll be your workout buddy online if you want. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've got to get back into it. My happy marriage needs to include that level of self-care in it, and I've been too happy (but then, why am I eating so much?).

Happy for his self admissions on CA and your pain. That's tremendous. Something you've really wanted for a long time, huh?

Big hug, dear.

LA

Nice to be missed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

More news, but first will response to your questions, comments, etc.

At Holiday party really not chance to talk, too busy eating, dancing, etc. On way home did most of talking about my job, people, & experience thru the years – he even made the comment that he thought was amusing as he didn’t remember me ever talking like that?? !! Still not sure if was meant as compliment, but I chose to take it as one. Will try your suggestions..

As for the letter, would post before/if decided to sent it.

I'm doing alot better since found this site & your advice, suggestions, questions etc & most of all your support !! The books have helped explain, too as have reading yours replies on other threads & other posts!

On line workout buddy sounds like good idea - how does/would it work? Sounds like you did strength training with weights if you add 30lbs muscle & are size 8 -- I'm impressed - Awesome!, just not sure could /should do that with my neck. Maybe my best bet to begin would be to walk, found site online which outlines a plan for beginners. Have to look it up & post it to see what you think.
Patience is not one of my strong points!

Now for the latest - WH & I have talked about get equity loan to do few needed improvements on house & pay off few bills. Called me to tell me he'd arranged for appraiser to come to house today.
Told me if goes thru & no reason it shouldn't,

• that with lower house note, utilities so that he can pay all of them,

• wants me to set up at bank so that $$ go in a separate savings account for me

• that wants me & kids to have assurance I will always have a home, roof over heads etc.

Also that he is excited about getting house cleaned & fixed up again! He does tend to put things off, so will have to see if he really follows thru & his excitement lasts.

Yours thoughts --Think I should be worried, suspicious that he's up to something ??!!

Time to get ready to go home - actually going to get my nails done, then home to see what latest
chapter in kids soap opera will be - it's beginning to wear really thin.

Have a good one !

up

"On line workout buddy sounds like good idea - how does/would it work?"

I don't know...we'd just make it up as we go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would start over with you...how I began was 10 minutes on the treadmill. That's it. That's walking. It was as long as I could go without going into boredom or feeling uncomfortable in my legs. Then I would change into my swimsuit and soak and stretch in the hot tub, massage my feet, hit the wet sauna and then the dry sauna. No kidding. That was like an hour of pampering for a ten minute walk. I counted getting to the gym, changing into and out of workout clothes and swimsuit and getting home as additional exercise. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I did it each day after work, M to Th, and by the end of the first week, I was up to almost 20 minutes. And there I stayed. Within three weeks I added in sit ups (they have cool assisted machines). Always the same pampering afterwards.

That is where I'll start again, this time with you, if you'd like.

"Patience is not one of my strong points!"

I knew that about you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It wasn't mine, either. Another good thing to come out of marital dischord...becoming more patient.

"Think I should be worried, suspicious that he's up to something ??!!" No, I don't think you should worry (it is unhealthy because it holds no reality) or suspicious...ask him. Say that you appreciate all his planning and effort. Is this for creating a better marriage or is he cleaning up stuff for a divorce?"

Ask. Ask. Give yourself permission. Then listen, repeat back and listen.

Good job on the manicure...as for soap opera at home...have you talked w/GF about your belief that she is being destructive and unfaithful? Explain an EA and how you cannot condone it under your roof. That's if you believe it, of course.

LA

So glad your on-line & hope still are....

"....for soap opera at home...have you talked w/GF about your belief that she is being destructive and unfaithful? Explain an EA and how you cannot condone it under your roof. That's if you believe it, of course"

The latest on home soap opera ..here is quote from the email she sent to WH late yesterday..

• "I have told son that I think the moment it is best that I leave the house, at least for now because this is not fair to anyone… this is literally the HARDEST think I have ever had to do in my life but I can not continue to put myself, son, Ariyana, you, TxGal2, or anyone through this. Even if at some point we do get back together, we will be out of the house…"

Here is reply WH sent her: - Interested in what you make of this -

• "Maybe coming from me it doesn't mean much but ( TxGal2) and I had several wonderful years together and many trials and tribulatiuons to deal with. I guess we really loved each other that we could always work things out. The harder things became the closer we got. I didn't care if we lost everything we had ever worked for as long as we were together. What we had was special (still is) but I dont need to bore you with our issues at a time when it's about you and son
  I know the crowded conditions at home is hard to live with not just for you but also Myself and (TxGal2) throught the years. (TxGal2) and I have never had a house to ourselves in our entire life together. I never had any regrets and I would do it all over again if I had too."

Working on reply to rest of your earlier post & to tell about conversation has with H about house stuff..

Wow, Gal...sorry I wasn't still online when you posted. Work got in the way. Darn work.

Just to be sure...your son's GF sent that to your husband, right?

Did you notice that the first person she believes that her staying in the relationship is unfair to...is her? She is fogged out.

You know, I love what your H wrote back...but it is too bad in my opinion, that he didn't take the opportunity to tell her about the fog, his affair, why it was and how it doesn't give you anything worth ruining your family over. He just said the next most brilliant stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you think that his A was trying to find his own spot in the crowded spot? Going outside, away, symbolizing room to breathe? I only guess that because usually what we are telling others, we are telling ourselves.

Can't wait to read what you think and conversation about house. If your son's family does move out (and it looks like that's a possibility), maybe your H is wanting to come home to share your home, repair and improve it with you, for just the two of you?

Do you think you could pick your H over your son?

I won't be on until tomorrow morning...hubby time tonight. I'll be thinking of you!

LA

Yeah..work does get in the way at times! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Correct, son’s GF sent email to my husband.

• Did notice that – but she’s told son, that Ariyana (child) should be lst priority, that she needs them both. While she’s been a good mother in past noticed these past few weeks she’s slacked off in her care, i.e., not giving baby her medicine on set schedule, taking her out at night w/her, getting upset with her for acting her age & not listening when she’s told her “no” several times, etc. like she’s tired of being a mother after a year in some ways.
  Also, up until I went to bed last night, GF has not said/told son she was leaving, as far as I know.
  Son has said something has to give & soon..can’t do it much longer. One thing H told her in earlier email was that “there is no sin God doesn’t/can’t forgive”. When I ask him for clarification on what he meant replied – “that if God could forgive she should be able to as well”

• As for what my H wrote in his reply to GF – don’t think he took opportunity to write about the fog, his affair, why it was & how doesn’t give you anything worth ruining family over – is that he is still in fog since has yet to admit to there being anyone else, etc.

Do you think that his A was trying to find his own spot in the crowded spot? Going outside, away, symbolizing room to breathe?

(BTW – I did ask him several times to make list, but he never has. Maybe it's time I should ask again! ??)

• My guess as to some of his ENs I failed to meet, are many, if maybe not all, but especially
  Domestic Support. Also due to him being a very light sleeper & my loud snoring, hadn’t sleep together in several years so have to say Affection / Sexual Fulfillment
  Also aware that iif/when he complained would be in such a way/tone that I’d be extremely defensive, be angry, argue etc lots of LBs. & since he’s admitted to being conflict avoider as I am to some degree, he’d repress his anger, resentment, etc. & withdrew.
  (Know I have a lot of work on me, ahead !)

• Then after his heart attack tried to behave as if all was normal, not smother/protect him make invalid out of him, when that is exactly what I really wanted to do hold, pamper love him, but didn’t show it
  ( Does that make any sense??!! )

".ask him. Say that you appreciate all his planning and effort. Is this for creating a better marriage or is he cleaning up stuff for a divorce?""

• Wish I'd waited so could've used you questions, but shortly after I posted I did ask him if this was in preparation for divorce. He actually shocked, & said "No, that D had not even crossed his mind"! Swore on his father's grave that was for D. ( Bad LB - I replied, ok, but you also swore on your father's grave that there was no one else & we both know better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> No reply to my LB..just said No ..again that would enable him to pay for the house & make easier on/for both of us.
  When he called about L email he told me again that house payment would be his always! Both times he indicated he was surprised I'd even think that. He wants me to be able to take part of my paycheck each week & put in account just for me.
  
  H is really excited about getting bills paid off & getting house in shape once again way it use to be & so am I. Hope H follows thru with what he has said, but he does have history of putting things off /not following thru!

As for - “Do you think you could pick your H over your son? “

• Yes, I can as always thought H comes first since was 2 of you before kids & would be 2 of you after they are gone, however might have to be careful how went about it, so H didn’t think was “bad mother” We are both guilty of “enabling” son..has had to face minimum consequences for his actions, H really soft heart where son is concerned.

Gotta run..will try to post more later.

Did you bring your son here to marriagebuilders and show him Plan A? Tell him to read all this stuff and learn what relationships are, how to protect and defend them?

God didn't bring you here just for you, I think.

"a very light sleeper & my loud snoring"

Now we're getting to it. Wish Harley would write something about his. My parents' marriage has been like that for 20 years. Friend at work was already in that stage in her fifth year of marriage.

Very disconnecting.

I wrestled my H's snoring, too. I resented him for it. It is something to POJA. I also noticed that when H was feeling strong, good about himself, he didn't snore. Funny, huh? I tracked his patterns from weight loss to weight gain, confidence, anger, and found when he was having to do stuff he didn't want to do, well it was louder, stronger and overbearhing. There's a combination in there, but if you could fix your own snoring, well, wouldn't that be awesome?

I'm full of guesses with no evidence here, but what if we give ourselves permission for everything--to feel sad, to be energetic (or not); what we do when we're awake and what we're allowed or not to do when we're asleep...what then?

When my H and I slept apart, so did our hearts. It felt like when we went through rough times in our double bed, that in sleep we gave ourselves permission to forgive, even for six hours, with the touch of a leg, a foot, a hand tucked under the tummy of the other. Like our waking disconnection and resentments were permitted, but we fed on unconscious affection. Without that, I couldn't understand him, his words or actions, nor he mine.

"Also aware that iif/when he complained would be in such a way/tone that I’d be extremely defensive, be angry, argue etc lots of LBs. & since he’s admitted to being conflict avoider as I am to some degree, he’d repress his anger, resentment, etc. & withdrew.
(Know I have a lot of work on me, ahead !)"

You read him and he read you. Now you know that is the laziest, most self-protective and self-destructive way to communicate and love. If he complains about something, it must be your fault, your blame; and vice versa. You hear "Fix this!" and so when you complain you are saying the same thing. Feelings just are...and they are his alone, and yours alone. Seperate. Most times, complaints aren't to be fixed but to be heard. If you want something changed, you ask directly for it. But make sure it is within the other person's power and not your own that you're giving way--shoving onto shoulders that shouldn't bear it.

I don't know what fog your H might still be in. I refuse to read him anymore than you. What I hear you doing is attempting to get him to validate his affair, talk about it, confirm it, be remorseful. Why? Because he's a conflict avoider (CA)? How did pressuring a CA work for you in your marriage?

"Then after his heart attack tried to behave as if all was normal, not smother/protect him make invalid out of him, when that is exactly what I really wanted to do hold, pamper love him, but didn’t show it" By reading him, you went contrary to your own desire to express your love. You did what you thought he wanted, not what you ached to do. You bogarted yourself. Yes, I understand. This way of miscommunicating, hiding personal truths, is as common as it is corrosive. Erodes love all the way down and leaves the lover wondering why? I was doing all I knew how? Being true to yourself, shining for who you are, being aware you choose to do this and that, well, where's the corrosion? But being contrary to who you are, living like you think your spouse wants you to live leaves you...alone.

You can mourn the loss of opportunity after his heart attack and let it go. You did then what you were in the habit of doing, but now that you know better, you can do better.

"He wants me to be able to take part of my paycheck each week & put in account just for me." Okay, I'll bite. Why can't you set up an account and have part of your paycheck directly deposited into that savings account? Why does he do it? Is this his usual language of love? Does it speak of love to you or control and dependency?

How much have you chosen to step on your truth in fear of abandonment?

Here I am, happy you're back and posting and feeling like I'm bashing you...must have a lot of this stuff in my life, huh? Your H sounds like your Plan A is working and he wants to come home...to you. To reduce his stress, right his life, find forgiveness from you and for you. All wonderful. Why am I worried?

I have my big anniversary date tonight with H. I'm not dancing inside like I was the last two days. Why? One small trigger...had to call him at work and a woman answered his cell. That hasn't happened in over a year. It wasn't OW, but it could have been. I'm back there all over again when the only way to speak to him was through her at his work. Killed me. Maybe I'm being all probing and disrespectful because I'm hurt all over again? Gosh, I thought I was past this. I really did. Not his doing, mine. My trigger.

Thanks for being here and hearing me out. Feel free to kick my hiney, 'k?

LA

Hope you were able to enjoy your Anniversary Date & had a wonderful time!
Hate those triggers - I had to overcome one Saturday as well - as was getting ready, went to ask H question only to discover him on his cell phone outside!

Had alot going on Saturday, so had to run my errands yesterday. H & I talked & we made decision to tell son's GF that needs to make up her mind & make decision to go or stay that her being out every night / staying out all night can not continue… not fair, is disrespectful , causing extreme tension & stress to all..
She decided to leave - said she would notcame back to son in this house.
Learned that it seems she did not make a single payment onloan signed on ( after she said months ago that she'd made arrangements for payment to be taken directly out of her bank account & also, despite being told month ago or more, the toll road tag on car was out so cost $15 each time go thru, & not to use tollroad- she has continued to use . Lying & stealing, not honoring your word / promise are things I do not tolerate or excuse easily.

Our party was ok - was quite different. I thought was interesting, but I worked on project. H said he had good time, but know that he was difficult for him as was bothered about son & GF, how son was going to react - as H brought it up several times.


Now to responses to your Sat 2/11 4:30PM post:

"Did you bring your son here to marriagebuilders and show him Plan A? Tell him to read all this stuff and learn what relationships are, how to protect and defend them?
God didn't bring you here just for you, I think."

• When started few weeks ago & he asked me about it - I explained about Love bank, LB, En, etc. & told him there was a site that could explain it better & that I also had books that I'd be glad to show him, along with stuff I had printed out. He's not a reader, & hasn't seem interested, but will mention it to him again & show him this time.

"I wrestled my H's snoring, too. I resented him for it. It is something to POJA......"

• My H seemed to resent me also & actually seem to think it was something I did on purpose, not something I couldn't control. Sure weight contributed, as well as my nose - have deviated septum ( cartilage / bone in nose) so only breath thru 1 side nose. Guess should have it operation to have fixed, but I'm a wimp when comes to pain. Maybe could have it done now along with alittle plastic surgery on my droopy eyelids & bags under my eyes ?? !!! ) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Couple of other things I remembered happened about this time or shortly after, was I had major surgery, & company I worked for was sold & I was laid off, so H & I quit riding to/from work together as we'd done for almost 10 yrs - it was our time to talk, vent about our day, etc.

"What I hear you doing is attempting to get him to validate his affair, talk about it, confirm it, be remorseful. Why? "

• Simply for him to be willing to discuss situation, to be honest, , quit denying anything is wrong, like "normal" as he's done since d-day. as until then we'll be stuck in limbo. ( maybe good time since what he's just told son's GF needed to make decision. ) Really feel like the bills, house, etc. is leading up to him saying he's chosen OW, that's what my inituation / gut is telling me, not to get my hopes up that will work out, so I won't be as hurt - but have idea will be just bad as d day & day he left.

"Most times, complaints aren't to be fixed but to be heard. If you want something changed, you ask directly for it. "

• Totally agree that is what happened with us

"But make sure it is within the other person's power and not your own that you're giving way--shoving onto shoulders that shouldn't bear it."

• Not sure I understand this - Can you clarify?

"He wants me to be able to take part of my paycheck each week & put in account just for me." Okay, I'll bite. Why can't you set up an account and have part of your paycheck directly deposited into that savings account? Why does he do it? "

• My paycheck is already directly deposited our joint account -- what he's talking about is being about to afford for me to take XX amount out of pay & put in separate account.

"How much have you chosen to step on your truth in fear of abandonment?"

• Not sure what you mean by "my truth"? My beliefs, principles, values?

"Your H sounds like your Plan A is working and he wants to come home...to you. To reduce his stress, right his life, find forgiveness from you and for you. All wonderful. Why am I worried? "

• Why ARE you worried?

"Thanks for being here and hearing me out Feel free to kick my hiney, 'k? "

• Glad to listen & why would I kick you hiney for giving me advise, your take on situation & trying to help from you experience -- why this is here, right? !

Thought about seeing if can get H to fill out EN questionnaire….just need to figure way to word it so he’d more incline to do it. What ya’ think? Also, filling out my LB list & asking him what he thinks & see if he’d make his own list ??? Maybe something along lines of improving / bettering myself..etc. ??

Gotten feeling on several occasions on different subjects, that in way H is wanting/waiting for me to act / do/make certain decisions…??? Almost sure he’s been surprised, as he’s mentioned it in sorta offhand way, in way I’ve handle situation / myself..biggest being that haven’t had any really major angry temper fits & go ballistic, other than Dday,& day he left note, for most part have been cool, calm, & collected--- at least on surface. Kinda plan a w/o knowing at time..more of kill ‘em with kindness, as my grandmother would say!


Now let me go back to one of your earlier posts:
From 1/15/06 @ 3:07PM
"I stopped the AOs without suppressing my anger"

• How do you do that ??
  
  

From remarks / conversation on Saturday, do believe I'm correct that one of his EN was/is domestic support - in talking about house, said it stunk, with all clutter, etc. hated coming in ( son & I smoke (another EN / LB of H - H dips snuff - but that's different something he does/enjoys, regardless of health )

I have been able to find addresses for various other clubs around town where he/they attend , & am working on exposure letter. Also working on letter to communicate the hurt, devastation has caused, accepting that my not meeting his ENs (as I see them now in hindsight) my LBs.
Would like to also include things he's said he was going to do, but has not followed thru on, What his standards, values, principles are - as has ask me if I didn't know he had them - know he did just think they are different now; also has made comments that my standards aren't up to his &/or same.

Thought about seeing if can get H to fill out EN questionnaire….just need to figure way to word it so he’d more incline to do it. What ya’ think? Also, filling out my LB list & asking him what he thinks & see if he’d make his own list ??? Maybe something along lines of improving / bettering myself..etc. ??

Gotten feeling on several occasions on different subjects, that in way H is wanting/waiting for me to act / do/make certain decisions…??? Almost sure he’s been surprised, as he’s mentioned it in sorta offhand way, in way I’ve handle situation / myself..biggest being that haven’t had any really major angry temper fits & go ballistic, other than Dday,& day he left note, for most part have been cool, calm, & collected--- at least on surface. Kinda plan a w/o knowing at time..more of kill ‘em with kindness, as my grandmother would say!

Time to go home -- check later! (Forgive my errors!)
Have a great evening ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sorry right back atcha for your trigger. Cell phones. :::: I'm sure the inventors did not imagine them to be used for such evil, did they? I swear, it is the #1 tool for infidelity. Btw, did you check his records for proof of the A?

I got over mine pretty rapidly. Funny, because that is how our great anniversary date began. The ending to it, last night on our way home, we were talking and H says, "Well, how did I get over being addicted to OW?" I could have dropped through the floor of the car. It was my own technicality, of course..."I believe you said that you were addicted to a fantasy, not a person." I held my breath. "Same thing, right?" Uhmmmmm...not in my book, huh?

See, I discovered I was a love addict...addicted to my H. Virtually swallowing him to fill myself up. So, me being addicted to him and working it out has been something new to us. When I am very affectionate, he says, "Is that real or the addiction talking?" Well, I work through that, also, because it is a good way not to backslide.

So, him saying he was addicted to HER, well, that bottomed me out. He couldn't see the difference. I maintained, breathed, listened and repeated, but the answer to his question was, "Well, your addiction was going to cost you your family. I believe that's how you conquered it."

"Oh, yeah. That's right."

OHMYGOSH...anyway, lovely time. Thoroughly enjoyed 26 hours together, and was relieved to get to work today.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, back to you, Gal.

About your son and marriagebuilders.

"When started few weeks ago & he asked me about it - I explained about Love bank, LB, En, etc. & told him there was a site that could explain it better & that I also had books that I'd be glad to show him, along with stuff I had printed out. He's not a reader, & hasn't seem interested, but will mention it to him again & show him this time."

I can really see the natural enabler in you showing here. He can search out what he needs...which is a strong Plan A. If he doesn't, his choice. Don't mention it again unless he asks. You've told him there is a way to combat infidelity and save a relationship. His choice.

Was he planning on marrying her ever? Was he still test driving after making a family? Not bashing...just wondering.

"She decided to leave - said she would notcame back to son in this house." Did she really pack up and leave or is just planning to?

"My H seemed to resent me also & actually seem to think it was something I did on purpose, not something I couldn't control. Sure weight contributed, as well as my nose - have deviated septum ( cartilage / bone in nose) so only breath thru 1 side nose. Guess should have it operation to have fixed, but I'm a wimp when comes to pain. Maybe could have it done now along with alittle plastic surgery on my droopy eyelids & bags under my eyes"

How did you feel about him creating that resentment for you? You believe it is not something you can control and your H believed you could do or try stuff...what do you think now? I wonder if you think I'm nuts for making a big deal out of this...

"Guess should have it operation to have fixed, but I'm a wimp when comes to pain."

How much pain did the growing apart without affection/SF cause? I don't think this was the only solution, but POJA at least, because it was important enough to do something about it. Remember in Lovebusters...annoying habits? They were important enough to be called lovebusters for a reason.

Our own POJA on H's snoring is that I get to sleep first, which is tough sometimes, as H can dose off in 30 seconds and I might take 10 minutes. Used to be hours, though, so I've been working it down myself to get it into a reasonable amount of time. Can't wait til I hit 30 seconds. That's my part. His part is to hold off or sleep in such a way as to mitigate the snoring until I'm out like a light. Takes two of us, but it works. No resentments.

And I talked with H about sleeping apart (yes, behind your back, Gal) and he said he definitely got his unconscious touch as a connection--touch/affection is his primary way of feeling loved. We slept in a motel this weekend in a queen-sized bed. He complained that it was too big. Ours is still a double and that touch while sleeping is that much more readily available.

I liked your humorous remark about tying it into a little well-deserved makeover. Now that's creative thinking!

"H & I quit riding to/from work together as we'd done for almost 10 yrs - it was our time to talk, vent about our day, etc." There ya go! Big info there, huh? See how the things that really connect us slip past us when circumstances change? Your H definitely connected with you through conversation and presence. That's how he's been connecting to you through this year of seperation, too, huh?

"Simply for him to be willing to discuss situation, to be honest, , quit denying anything is wrong, like "normal" as he's done since d-day. as until then we'll be stuck in limbo. ( maybe good time since what he's just told son's GF needed to make decision. ) Really feel like the bills, house, etc. is leading up to him saying he's chosen OW, that's what my inituation / gut is telling me, not to get my hopes up that will work out, so I won't be as hurt - but have idea will be just bad as d day & day he left."

Notice that you didn't own this as your belief. You made it sound like a truth between you. You believe you will be stuck in limbo until he admits, discusses, informs and owns his affair. He may not see it that way. It is your intuition saying why he is now dealing with house repairs, bills, etc. Not his. You're giving yourself future pain with this belief. You have not asked. You don't know. Please don't do this to yourself.

What if you're right? Then you have twice the pain...you have it now and later. Where is the good self care in that?

And if you're wrong? You will have the pain now and not later, but you may feel as if your H is to blame for that pain. Where i sthe good H caretaking in that?

""Most times, complaints aren't to be fixed but to be heard. If you want something changed, you ask directly for it. " Totally agree that is what happened with us"

I believe you guys were really good at this for 10 years in your mutual commute. You knew this and lost it with the routine.

"My paycheck is already directly deposited our joint account -- what he's talking about is being about to afford for me to take XX amount out of pay & put in separate account."

So, his part is just saying you've got room to deposit X amount seperately? You set up the account and split the direct deposit? I'm sorry I didn't get that.

"Does it speak of love to you or control and dependency? How much have you chosen to step on your truth in fear of abandonment?"

I was asking you if him controlling your finances, to this degree, was a language of love for you? Or something you aren't comfortable with but since you fear seperating your finances as an act of abandonment, maybe it was that fear that kept it in place?

Why am I worried? Well, because until this post, you haven't said what a lot of the causes of your distance really were, I guess. I always worry what people are coming back to--I hold the fear my H had, that it would just be more pain and suffering, like a challenge. How would rebuilding be different for you? What are the differences between then and now?

"Thought about seeing if can get H to fill out EN questionnaire….just need to figure way to word it so he’d more incline to do it. What ya’ think? "

I think anytime you approach your partner with an eye to manipulation (getting them to do something you want, even if it is "good" for them in your opinion) is dangerously disrespectful. I'm all for things in their proper order...

Top priority? Getting out all of "your stuff" into a letter or journal and really seeing it, so you weed out the resentments you created from the anger trails that were done to you. After reading through this personal truth letter, you get to see where you could have done better with what you know now (not then).

Part of Step One is owning your stuff to your H. This is what I was in the habit, or allowed myself to do...I know better and do better now. Your declaration of your love and belief in rebuilding a thriving marriage comes at the end of Step Two.

Step Two. Finding out his plans, dreams or expectation for your marriage. Where he stands now and his desire. And you stating your plans, dreams and expectations for your marriage. Simply saying where you stand and what you desire.

Step Three. Depending on Step Two, tell him of your excitement about MB and how relationships work and flourish. Then ask him to look it up or say that you can print out ENs for you both and trade them when completed.

Depending on Step 2 and information from Step Three (if he does it), if Recreational Companionship is in his top 10, then I would print out that list and have fun going over it with him, getting new ideas for the policy of undivided attention (15 hours per week). A little fun before the next step.

Step Four. Then Lovebusters (which he has to fill out for you and you for him). This can be tough to do and hear, but a great proving ground for your change. He puts down his belief of what you do and vice versa. Great information--terrible info if you're defensive. I think you get this part really well, but had to caution anyway.
And it sounds like from you that you've cleared up a lot of lovebusters and he's noticed. You being safe is really important and should be what you own in Step One.

Step Five. If you're both committed, go to MC.

Step Six. Talk about this and ask, respectfully, without argument: "Would like to also include things he's said he was going to do, but has not followed thru on, What his standards, values, principles are - as has ask me if I didn't know he had them - know he did just think they are different now; also has made comments that my standards aren't up to his &/or same." Find out the correct, solid information of what he thinks, feels and believes. Don't take it on assumption, mindreading or judging his actions. Be respectful. If he assumes, mindreads or judges, point out when he does it and calmly ask him not to do that. Encourage him to share his thoughts and feelings and to ask and point out as well. Be safe both ways.

" that in way H is wanting/waiting for me to act / do/make certain decisions…??? "

How do you feel about your belief that is what he's doing? Why don't you ask him if he is wanting/waiting for you to act/do/make certain decisions?

""I stopped the AOs without suppressing my anger"
How do you do that ??"

Oh, that's a long post, but if you'll remind me, I'll tackle that in my next one, 'k?

"I have been able to find addresses for various other clubs around town where he/they attend , & am working on exposure letter." Again, your decisions are yours...but I would have hard evidence of the affair (cell phone records, etc.) before exposing. Unless OW is married (and I read that she wasn't) there isn't a lot of good to come out of exposure if the affair is over. Him talking on the cell phone outside is a good indicator, but to whom? Another OW? A new one? Him buying you a Valentine's Day gift? I dunno. Proof is what I advise, then expose if ongoing contact. Period. Right behind you and glad you're making a list to expose.

All errors forgiven. Check!

Have a great evening, too,

LA