Hi Willing,
I have my own photo biz, too. Do you mind sharing which state you are in? I'm just curious.

Look, you've been living like this for 4 years. Why be in a rush now?

Start gathering information. Don't you have some friends that might be able to do some spying for you? Mr. Wondering suggests voice activated recorders, how about using one of those in his car? Why not put the baby monitor back in his room?

Now, this would be personal preference, but I would have a real problem with him coing in for SF. SF is more than a morning quickie. Don't you have a lock on your door? I guess if you did that now he'd know you were up to something more than connfronting him yesterday.

take care

*Octobergirl with 2x4 in hand considering whether or not to use it* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In the 3+ years I have been here wtw,I have only batted 3 people with a 2x4 when they don't seem to get it.I am holding off because I am seeing with each successive post that it may just be dawning on you.

I am glad that you have made improvements in yourself,that is good.You may just have to consider that you are back to square one and make plans for that.But you do have to follow through and find out if he is having an A at some point,sooner than later since if it is going on,and I personally think something of that nature is,then you are not recovered and the past several years were a sham.At the very least,he is not treating you lovingly and like a wife except when he feels like it.



Sure it's normal.You have had the rug pulled out again, even if it's not an affair,there's a lot going on that is not suggestive of a healthy marriage and there are too many secrets and unexplained behavior.

Hang in there,we're with you!


O

When I exposed the A, my H told me he had an affair because I "ignored him". Yeah, right. How many times did I hear "Leave me alone"? That seems like your situation. It plain doesn't matter what the guy is doing. He's not interested in a relationship with YOU.

If you are willing to wait, that's exactly what you'll have. So what if he has a few affairs along the way?

The question is this: Are you willing to settle for this?
If not, do something about it. Exposing yet another affair is a pathetic attempt to clear the way for you to build a relationship with him. The problem is that he's already been exposed with an affair and he hasn't turned towards you.

Cherished

I found exactly when and for how long my XW drove to OM's appt. It's a real eye-opener. The software shows you a track of the car on the map, along with the time. As long as the vehicle is moving, you get data every second.

The unit I used is a recorder. It does not connect to you by cell-phone. You have to download the data from the unit later. I think it is probably unsafe for many BS's to have the real-time tracker - because of the urge to go to the scene of the tryst and make a scene.

-AD

I'd hate for you to pay that much for it. I've seen them go used for $180 to $200 on ebay.

-AD

Hi again,

I have to agree with the innocence_lost. I doubt he will be doing anything this friday, as he's been alerted to the suspicion.
Checking the mileage is a good idea. My WH put in 26,000 miles in ONE YEAR and he didn't even have a job at the time. It was 113 miles round trip for him to see OW. He claims he used to go out driving a lot to kill time.


Now, if he has to drive even 30 miles into the city he thinks it is ssssooooo far!! Kind of funny if you ask me. OW was on the other side of the city!!

Do you have a friend who can park a 1/2 block away from your house and follow him for the next couple friday nights --before you spend the money to hire a PI?? Maybe a friend who could borrow another friend's car that he wouldn't recognize?
My best advice is do not drive him to lie more, or whatever you want to call it. When you confront WS without all your cards on the table it is not a good thing.

am a fan of the PI.

I hired a guy who was great..again, was retired policeman.

They got all the info I needed in about five hours.

And I did NOT like what I found.

But that was why I hired them.

There are some instances in life that are good to be proactive on. Every day at work I see people who "let that mole just grow...ignore it..it will go away". I hear that. They see something growing on them. They think it's just a pimple. Or a mole. And it's "nothing". But it is cancer and it can spread. They are afraid of finding out what it is and what will happen when the news is confirmed. So they ignore.

GEt gps or one night with a PI...and I'd wait for 2 weeks from this friday to do it. Let things die down if you get a PI.

All they need is a recent photo of WH. Car tags, color and make. Point of origin *(where WH most likely will be before leaving out on friday night so they can follow him). That's it.

OK. Kids are in bed and WH is at the Sunday night poker game - I DO know the people his is with toight. I work with them, so I ALWAYS check to be sure he was there. So far, so good.

There is lots to catch up on since this afternoon and so much that I have thought about since then.

It is SO hard acting like there is nothing wrong now that I believe there is an A going on. I feel nothing but hate for WH right now, yet I must continue to act like the happy little doormat I have been in the past. Yuk. Tonight, all was quiet - dinner was finished, kids were bathed and ready for bed, and I was reading - just the usual. Then, before leaving, WH came in to snap at me about $$ - basically to pick a fight. It made me so mad!!! I snapped back and he went on his usual rant, calling me an idiot, etc. I really think that he wanted to create nastiness between us so that he could stop feeling guilty about his activities. Come to think of it, I think he does that alot.

As I was laying down with my 5 year old son so he would go to sleep, I finally realized/accepted/acknowledged that he is only staying here for the kids. His dad left after cheating his mom, and that is the one thing he does not want to do. That is the ONLY reason he is here. He does not want to be the bad guy in the kids eyes.

It is amazing how much all seems to fall into place once you start to see what is going on. One thing that I remembered this afternoon was a conversation that we had last week. It was on our 14th anniversary and I was a basketcase because he passed up the opportunity to spend the evening with me - his actions, coupled with the sad state of our relationship, put me over the edge. Anyway, I asked him at one point if he ever wished that he had stayed with OW instead of me. I fully expected him to say NO, but he just shrugged his shoulders and whimpered something like "I don't know." It shocked me, but I was in such a state that for some reason I just glossed over it. I asked him if he still sees her at work and wishes that they were together. His answer we that all he says to her when he sees her in the hall is "hey, how's it going." That was the first time he has acknowledged that he still has contact with her. I know, I know - i should have known...... but I didn't.

You know, it never did sit right with me that it was not more of an issue to him that I refused SF for so long. It is one of his top emotional needs. Now, it seems clear that he is probably getting that need filled from OW. Makes me sick to my stomach.

So........ how long should I expect it to take to gather evidence? Am I looking at weeks on months? I don't know how long I can endure this.

Too many things for one post......

Should I consider letting a friend in on my suspicions? I am afraid of not having any sort of support network for me while this is going on. I let WH convince me that this was best kept between us for over 4 months right after discovery. All that did was enable his behavior and end up sending me to the dr. after a nervous breakdown. If this is going to take some time, would it be OK to let someone in on it? Or, would that be a mistake? Thoughts?

BTW......

moveforward: I am in arkansas. I would love to use that baby monitor again, but he broke it to pieces as soon as he figured out that I used it to listen to him.

Octobergirl: I am honored that you considered the 2x4! Please feel free to bring it out anytime you see fit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes it takes just that for me to see what is going on. Obviously - or I would not have let this go on for 4 years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

AD - I will look around for that GPS. Sounds like it worked for you and it might just be what I need. Something I can control and I can use it as often as needed. Thanks for the tip on that one.

Finally....... one big thing that WH has always been adament about is staying in the house. He insists that he will not leave because he loves this house. It is nothing special, but it is home. Over the years, I had decided that it would be OK for me to move if that is how it worked out. Now, I am determined that I will NOT be displaced from my home. I will catch him in this A and he will be out - not me. I have alot at stake here and if I hold the cards, I am in a better position to get when I want. My kids, my home, and some happiness in my life.

I am going to need lots of help along the way. I'll gather evidence and keep it to myself. When will I know to expose? Do I expose when they are together? Do I have him served with papers? Do I expose when it is just the two of us? I am getting ahead of myself here, huh?......

When WH got home and went to go to bed, I kissed him and said "Goodnight, I Love you," just like I always do. He turned his head just like always and I kissed him on the cheek. Now I am thinking about how he has only let me kiss him on the cheek or forehead for so long now.

Guess he doesn't feel anything for me and instead feels like he needs to be 'faithful' to OW. I want to throw up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Good thing I still have some sleep aids from the dr. I also think I need to start taking my anti-depressants again. I stopped a few months ago because I didn't think I needed them. I don't want to go down too far again, so if I start back on it now hopefully I can prevent that and manage to keep my head on straight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Ever watch the movie 'Fiddler on the Roof'? You know the one where the father creates a dream so he can concote a reason why his daughter can't marry the old butcher?!?!? Hm.... maybe if you had a few dreams.... hm.... well. I know I did. Yep, slipped out that the WS heard of them.....well when the WS asked if any guys 'hit on me'..... I couldn't lie, I had to say yes. LOL!!! Yea, George and Tom....that's their names. I told the WS at the time, too bad I can't give you their last names..... they are 2 famous. LOL!!! That WS was soo foggy he didn't get it. LOL!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I would withhold the ILY's if you think he is being a WS.

L.

I feel like things are coming at me from all sides.

I just got an e-mail that my dad sent over the weekend – he has bought airline tickets and booked lodging for the family trip in March. I thought he was not going to do that until later. And, yes, he bought a ticket for WH <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> even though we told him last week that there was a possibility that WH could not go because of school commitments. What my dad does not know is that WH told me later last week that he was not going to go on the trip because it did not sound fun to him. After heated discussion, WH told me he would think about it. My gut tells me that he will not go. I dread telling my parents that because they will really get their feelings hurt and for some reason I feel like it is my fault.

In light of everything that is swirling around me right now, do I mention any of this (my suspicinions) to my parents? Or, just let it go and pretend like everything is OK for now and play along like WH will be going on the trip? I am sick to my stomach again.

Why can’t things just go along easily for me sometimes? (OK, pity party over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> )

Can I bring cupcakes or cookies to your party?

March is a while a way. Just let it rest right now. Lots can change and happen in that time frame. Your dad will not be able to get a refund probably, so just let it go for right now.

Sit down today and figure out a plan. Make your shopping list. A baby monitor is cheap and if the last one made him so upset, I'd say go for another one. Either that, or go to radio shack and see if they have other suggstions that might be smaller, less obvious.

Party's over. Get on with what you know you need to do.

blessings

wtw,

Ok,this really isn't so confusing.I know you feel dumped on with all that has been going on but you just need to get back to basics and start your planning again.WH has been acting very badly and so your plan should look a bit like this:

1)Assess whether or not an A is gong on-

A) Yes A: Then consider Plan B.Plan A is out the window now IMO.You have been doing that mostly all along.Also consider legal separation.If WH doesn't want to leave the house and you SHOULDN'T leave,then legal paths may need to be taken to work that out.Just putting that out there for future reference.

B)NO A: Request counseling and/or legal separation.You cannot go on as is even if there turns out not to be an A.He is treating you like a "friend with benefits" only a true freind wouldn't be treating you like he has(Octobergirl reserving 2x4 for your WH <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />).

The easy part is making sure you have a plan in place and you know what you need to do(make a list if needed).The rest is just work to accomplish the goals in the plans.Right now it's finding out if your WH is in an A.After that is determined,you can plan for what to do next and you know we will help with that.Be methodical.You've been through this before and although the intial shock that it all may be happening again or never stopped is stressful,you CAN make it through.

None of this is your fault! And regarding telling your parents,I don't know what kind of relationship you have with them but I am a firm believer in honesty about what is going in my life.My parents know everything and always have.If you feel that they are too fragile or whatever to handle any more bad news just tell them that your WH opts out of going on vacation.It may be better for you anyway with him not there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sending STRENGTH and POWER to you!! YOU WILL BE OK NO MATTER WHAT! You are woman and mother! Roar!! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

O

P.S. Back off on the EN's you're giving WH.Let him feel a bit of you pulling away....see what happens.

About the trip, my dilemma is this......

My parents know EVERYTHING about the A years ago and the state of my marriage since then. I am afraid that if I breathe wind to them too early about my suspicions, that they will inadvertently treat WH differently and he will clue in that something has changed. I don't want to risk that yet as it might make it harder (and take longer) to find out what is going on.

However, if I don't tell them the reason and let them think he just doesn't want to go (which is actually the case), I feel stuck in the middle between my parents and WH. It is a very stressful situation for me. I know because I have been there before. I end up making stupid excuses for his behavior and I hate it. I feel like all judgemental eyes are on me.

I guess I just bide my time on that one for now. I'll tell WH about the tickets being bought and see what he says. Really, if he is not going to go, he needs to be the one to tell them anyway. I just hate that something that should be really, really fun and is a wonderful gift inadvertently causes me pain.

Hopefully, by the time the kids and I hit the slopes in late March, I will be through most of this and will be living independent from this pain.

DO TELL A TRUSTED FRIEND!! You can't shoulder this burden on your own - you are only human after all!
Your WH will of course want you to keep it to yourself because he doesn't want to feel embarrassed!
I wouldnt have made it through those first few months after d-day with out MB and a real live friend that I felt comfortable with.
Of course, after exposure - EVERYBODY KNEW but not the gory details - just that one friend and everyone here!

Suzy -
I did tell a very supportive friend. Best thing I did today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Question...what are the odds of having that friend tail him when needed?

If it's someone who's vehicle he doesn't know, then it would probably work well as long as they're cautious.

As far as the cell phone...some companies have an online invoice system that would allow you to see calls within 24 hours of when they were made...sometimes even within minutes! You might check and see if your provider has something along those lines.

On access to his car...when you get a chance...walk out to his car and look on the driver's side dashboard, right at the base of the windshield. There is a small aluminum plate with a whole bunch of numbers on it...right them down (make sure you get it EXACTLY right).

Also make sure you know the year, make, and model of his car, and then call a local dealership and let them know that you need a spare key made. They'll probably require you to show your license (are you on the title?), but they should be able to cut you a spare key that will fit it no problems. (If it REALLY comes down to it, tell the person you're talking to exactly WHY you need the key...they may work with you in that case if for no other reason).

There seem to be a ton of issues in your R with your H. Honestly, it sounds like you never really dealt with the first A completely...which means that there is such a huge seperation right now between you that it's hard for some of us to really be able to comprehend.

He's made it clear that he's not willing to work to meet any of your emotional needs. I hate to phrase it like this, but have you made it clear to him that if he DOESN'T start doing this, he runs a major risk of losing you?

Something to think about at least.

You are right. WE never delt with the first A. I delt with the A - with the help of my counselor. WE couldn't deal with it because he would not participate.

And, you're right. There is so much separation between us that we basically live separate lives right now. I did not, DO NOT, want it this way. But, little piece by little piece along the way, I have accepted what he offers and learned to live with it. My mistake - I know. But, I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought this would eventually work out and staying together was the best thing in the long run for me and the kids.

Each time I have tried to make it clear that he runs the risk of losing me, I realize that it is not me that he cares about. He does not care if he loses me - how sad is that? Each time it comes down to the kids. And, I give in hoping for more for the sake of my kids.

This time my LB is empty. He has used up every single thing in there and I, frankly, do not want him if he cares so little about me that he would string me along for 4 YEARS and keep me in this relationship under false pretenses just so he did not have to be the one to do this to our kids.

My kids and my happiness are what I intend to come away with this time. I have no more room in my life for somone who would steal all my trust, love, and emotional well-being and 4 years of my life! I HATE him right now!