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I am sorry - I think he had a moment at the funeral that woke him up. HE has had things pretty good for 4 yrs. WHy not go back. I believe he will have a honey moon period 2, 3 ,4 6 months maybe a year. I would really like to see this guy in IC. You said his father had A's. Hmmmm. I wonder if he can truely change for a life time with out this.
I also feel your emotions and what he has put you tru will take alot of time and forgiveness on your part. That will take awhile.
I know I wonder how long my H will be GOOD? How long till the old behaviors start again. Please regarless what anyone says -anyone- do for yourself what is right. You and only you have to live with this.


married 21
Together 26 -
OW 2yrs, he worked with her and found secret e-mail account.The first cut is the deepest.
just found out H is a serial cheater - total cut to pieces now- saw a D lawyer today.
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I am open to trying Steve Harley. But, I have a rapport with the MC that we are seeing tonight. Plus, I have a personal connection to him outside of this situation. He was the pastor at the church I grew up in. He left the ministry after earning his doctorate and he has been a marriage and family counselor for many years. He knows me and my family intimately and I honestly believe that he has my best interest at heart. He is someone that I can trust and I don't have much of that to share at this point. That is why I am willing to see what he has to say tonight.

And, yes - WH does know who I have told. I told him that I thought he needed to apoligize to my parents for this, too. Maybe that is out of line - I don't know. I am just so tired of making excuses for him and trying to bridge the gap for him.... He hurt them when he hurt me because they have been my source of support through all of this.

Is that a wierd thing to ask him to do?

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Not at all weird. I suspect he will be more than willing to make amends to anyone he needs to in order to put this right. He will have to humble himself a bit this time. Remorse and repentance is what you should see.


Married 1976
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Willing:

No sexual contact with him at least until you've been tested for STDs and they come back ok. Tell him this. This is a consequence of what he has done.

I third, fourth, fifth the motion to call one of the Harleys. This counselor you are seeing also ok'd the poker nights with you not knowing what was going on there, right?

If you took a collection here at MB to spend on phone counseling with the Harleys, you'd have the money collected in no time flat - I hope you are hearing us chant: HAR-ley, HAR-ley, HAR-ley...!!!

Em

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I'm glad you have a marriage counselor you are comfortable with. But you still may want to consider 1 session with SH. He can help WH come up with a MB plan. Before the marriage can recover WS need to make an effort. After all this time stumbling around in the fog he needs direction on what he should do. IMHO go to MC, WH has lots he needs to do, see if he is committed, then maybe consult w/ SH for direction but continue w/ your MC on recovering marriage. I had a session w/ SH this AM check my thread for details.


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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i believe for a brief moment your h's heart was vulnerable and open to the holy spirit. i believe the holy spirit has come over him. i know this sounds like voodoo to most who are not christian believers. let me tell you a little story.

2 yrs ago i went to a retreat, i know for certain i was overcome by the spirit in church. the retreat was about handing over the reins in life to god. i was a rein holder. the weekend had a huge impact on me. i returned home and started applying what i learned. i also decided to be a part of the next retreat/one of the facilitators. my h saw my changes instantly. he said he saw so much peace and humility in me. he decided to go to the mens retreat. it had been a few weeks after the retreat and the first nite of my first meeting for the planning of the next retreat. we all had to give witness about our life and how god played a part in our life. i went home that nite and crawled into bed and hugged my h adn told him how lucky i was to have such a awesome career, husband, children, home etc and how these women were messed up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> the next morning is when i got the call from the ow's h telling me of his discovery of my h and his wife's affair.

long story short my h went to that mens retreat a broken man. he has quickly outpaced me in our christian relationship with god and has almost become the christian head of household in our home.

so in short i think your h has been visited by the spirit, what an awesome dream life sitting at your feet at the wrong timing. that's gods timing. we'd like it to be in our timing, but it's not how it works <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> god is giving you a opportunity to rebuild that marriage on a strong foundation. lots of hard work.

the last two years for me (dday 2/3/06) has been rough as for everyone else who is a bs. life can present you with a lot of bs.....what matters is what you do with it.

i for one hope you give your h a 2nd chance. if you read harleys books you will soon realize how the brain of a ws is soooooo f'd up. it's not something he was trying to do to you, you were just a bystander.

come on over to recovery and start a new thread. you will get a lot more support and stories about relationships just like yours that went bad and turned into something glorious.

god has a f'd up sence of humor at times i've said. i had to go through the fire....the furnace and be shaped and molded before i vcould have the marriage of my dreams.

xoxoxo


"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart." Helen Keller
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Not to be a wet blanket here, W2W, but your WH's A is nowhere near over.

OW hasn't even weighed in yet.

LTA's are as hard to end as, what, food addictions? Cocaine? Nicotine? SA? World Hunger?

No - much, much harder.

Look at what his LTA has survived already. Look at how long it’s gone on. Look at for how many years he didn’t care about you in the least.

This is less of an A than it is a well integrated lifestyle for him by now.

Your WH is going to need much more than an MC. And OW is going to have to disappear completely.

W2W, all the good intentions in the world will not end an LTA. Saying all the right things in the right order with the right tone of voice are not going to end an LTA. LTAs are completely different from the garden variety A that cookbook MB methods are designed to address.

You and your H need expert help. I sure hope your minister/MC/friend knows his stuff. This will be a very tough nut to crack. Get it right this time. I don’t want you to end up on the receiving end of a ten-year LTA with multiple D-Days like I did.

With prayers,

Added: With very proficient and expert MC and IC we did crack our nut. The LTA is over, I belive. But something you might keep in mind, I often wonder why I bothered. An LTA eats up so much of your life you have to think it through carefully. It is best if you can decide up front if it is going to be worth the effort.

Last edited by Aphelion; 01/17/06 12:11 PM.

"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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I agree with Em!
I understand W2W that you have a good rapport with your MC, but it does concern me that he seems to have advocated your behaviour in enabling your H to continue the affair. I think many other MC's would have established that you found it difficult to make demands and boundaries of your H, even though you had the right too, and would have helped you in overcoming your difficulties in this area, so that you put your foot down a bit more in the first instance, thus taking away most of the opportunities for the A to continue.
The sheer fact that you have worked sooo hard at this marriage for 4 years in the blatant face of your H's total lack of trying (no Mc, IC, secrets etc) I think most MC's would have advised to not allow these things at ANY cost!
I also agree that he needs IC - he has been in an incredibly deceptive place for 4 years and lived happily with it. Something to worry about in itself.

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wow, we all keep giving advice even though www2 hasn't asked for any. maybe we all, myself included should stop giving it. let us know how it all pans out www2. you've heard all you need to hear here. take some time to think. best wishes

Last edited by 2334pem; 01/17/06 12:04 PM.

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart." Helen Keller
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Your heart needs time to heal. If you try to forgive him quickly, you will probably not be able to. And you won't be able to love each other as a H and W should.

Tell your WH to move out and stay away. Nonnegotiable. And tell him that when you are ready to talk you will let him know - could be weeks or months. If he is real you will know it.

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Quote
Is that a wierd thing to ask him to do?


No .... but guess what ... if he is sincere, he ought to volunteer an apology !!!!

Why should you ASK him to behave decently?

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I am going to backpeddle here -

The ball should be totally in your H's court right now.

HE called and made the appointment.
HE can take the lead on the direction the MC goes.
HE can decide the next steps to recover the marriage. (He asks you if he should quit or wait til the end of school year - what does HE think he should do? Let him reason it out in front of you.)

Later on, if you decide this MC isn't strong enough on A issues, you can give your H info about SH and let HIM decide what to do with it.

It is his turn to take the lead 100%. You can show support without taking control.

EDITED TO ADD - It's easy to get caught up in the advice giving. It's well intended. So my last words of advice are - hurry up & wait <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I'm really glad that you were able to get an appointment so quickly.

Last edited by been_there; 01/17/06 12:40 PM.
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Stargirl has some good points, Waiting. Some folks are awfully eager to believe a man who was a liar, a cheat, controlling, manipulative, emotionally detached, et al, and who engaged in an adultery that continued for at least four years! I think it’s awfully premature to say he’s believable at this point.

Waiting, he could very well be reading your posts. It wouldn’t have been hard to figure out who you were…WH is a teacher, sleeps apart in son’s (age x) from BW for four years, poker every Friday night, a blister pack of 'STAMINA Rx Maximum Sexual Stimulant, going to a funeral…

Those are pretty definitive specifics he could key on. Actually, he’d be absolutely certain it was you.

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"Some folks are awfully eager to believe a man who was a liar, a cheat, controlling, manipulative, emotionally detached, et al, and who engaged in an adultery that continued for at least four years! I think it’s awfully premature to say he’s believable at this point."

Ah, that would be me....guilty as charged. Maybe he needed the Stamina Stuff because it was getting to the point where he wasn't up to snuff with OW and it was becoming a big conflict.

I agree that the ball is in his court to prove his resolve.

I think lots of us are projecting our stories on W2W. Both the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Peace.


Married 1976
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Well Long, unfortunately for me, its all coming from experience! But thats another story.....
I understand that some people can truly change - they can, i have witnessed it. But I feel in this situ, where deception has gone on for 4 years, there is something much bigger going on underneath. Esp regarding the H's fathers history. I find it strange that he has blatently been quite cruel at times (and recently) and witholding, to have this very sudden turn around just after W2W had already discovered the A. Its an overnight change, and this in itself is worrying.
How could someone be so cruel on a day to day basis, and then it seems say the right things at the right time?
Oh believe me, ive heard all the right things at the right time. Pulling on my niavity and hope over and over again, to discover more deception.
Maybe seeing W2W's new found strength and independance have helped H to see her in a new light. But does this mean that W2W has to change her personality in order to keep the H in line? How much work will this take?
There is also the OW who is clearly besotted and prepared to put up with anything - my how this H must weave a magic spell to keep all this ticking along in his favour for 4 YEARS! This is a very very clever man! Dont underestimate him.

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willing, I am still curious if THIS MC is the same one who said it was OK for your H to continue to work with OW. Also, did he condone the poker nights in which you had no details? If so, as much as you might feel comfortable with this man, he does not understand infidelity. Just like some people might need a shark attorney when they D, you need a primo MC right now who totally understands infidelity. You can not screw around with this now. The Harleys are a good place to start. I also believe there are good MCs out there that really understand this horror. Our MC is one of them. Please don't settle with a mediocre MC. He will do more harm than good. CV

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And MC does not work at all, no matter who MC is, without complete and total NC.

This situation, as with LTAs in general, is bigger than MC. WH needs a major overhaul and realignment before MC will be of lasting benefit.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Dear Willing,

I'm so sorry that you are going through this! You sound strong. It's the adrenaline that is allowing you to disconnect from your heart right now. That is not all bad as long as you go back and deal with the feelings at a later date.

I'm glad that you have the MC appointment tonight and it sure is an important step if you WANT to reconcile, however, I'd have one rule for reconciliation if I were you. It would be that YOU get to call the shots for counseling. He needs some serious IC work for as long as YOU think he needs it. I hope you'll stand up for yourself in this area. You need to be safe and his emotional health is the key to your safety in this relationship.

I'd also insist that he attend an MKP weekend and that he get involved with that men's group. It's all about integrity and the group would literally hold him accountable. www.mkp.org

Let us know how things go tonight. I'm so sorry!!

Stillwed


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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Wow, it took forever to read this entire thread. So as I see it, Willing's love bank is in a huge negative balance. THis is what happens when you spend 4 years of your life working on a marriage all by your self. Willing's husband suddenly has a change of heart because he either knows or senses that she has finally had enough.

All of us here have had varying emotions reading this thread. We all know that she is the only one who can decide what is best for her. She has spent 4 years of her life working on a marriage that appeared to have very little importance to her WH. While all of this could have been handled better, it is what it is.

So IMHO, what is the hurry. If she proceeds with the divorce, she may always wonder if he had really changed, if they could have regained the marriage they had before the affair. Or she could put those divorce plans on hold and see if he puts his money where his mouth is and actually shows her that he is trying to change. The ball is in his court to show her he means business and wants to make things right.

For the first time in years, she gets to make the rules and set the boundaries. So why not give him a chance to make some deposits in her love bank. If he is insincere or has some dark ulterior motive, she is going to spot it fairly quickly if she stays on her game and keeps her eyes open and her suspicions up.

Ultimately, if there is nothing he can do to regain her lost love, she can always proceed with the divorce knowing that she gave the marriage every chance.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

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Seems to me that one of three things has gone on here:

- With odd timing, things progressed exactly like he described. Change of heart at a funeral etc.
- With odd timing, the OW threw him over and now he's crawling back.
- Your actions and strange behavior caused him to investigate what was up with you. He found out or suspected that you knew and he's gone into hysterics trying to figure out what to do now the he can't be a cakeman anymore.

I know which one I think it was -- the one that does not rely on odd timing and coincidence. Just based on your posts you were clearly agitated, he sensed it, figured he was busted, and concocted some story. Maybe he broke up with OW. Maybe he put it on hold.

If it were me, the first thing I'd do is to call the OW. I'd tell her you know they were having an affair, that you don't love him anymore, and ask her what's going on between them. Listen and see what she says. You probably can't trust certain messages from her, but if you ask an open ended question rather than a leading question you may find out something interesting. Like -- your husband is lying. And yes, definitely, leave that GPS in place.

Then I'd spend some time in marriage counseling while you proceed with the divorce proceedings. Does not hurt to go to counseling with him. You may learn something. You may change your mind.

If it were me, he'd be done. He's had 2 chances already. He married you, committed to no affair and then screwed it up. Then he got caught cheating and created a web of lies to continue the affair. I'd have no confidence, and more importantly, no desire to continue on with him.

Good luck. I've lurked a long time. Yours was the post that got me to register. I'd swear this guy is a slime who got caught, is trying to save face, and will do it again in the future. You deserve better. Unless he's great in bed or really engaging and entertaining, it's time to learn what you can and then move on.

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