...hmmm. He doesn't get it yet.

You are receiving terrific advise about moving forward with caution.

BOOKS

I have a great respect for SHIRLEY GLASS. She has made a study of the role of affairs in contemporary life.Her attitude seems to be that affairs will happen and that there are certain situations which allow affairs to develop.... particularly in the workplace as in your hs case.

If you can see a pattern in the behavior then you are able to understand how it works and therefore be more capable of dealing withi it when it happens.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but this is a view from over 4 years out from a successfully recovered marriage:

Your H needs to put up iron clad boundaries right now - you are now the "insider" and the OW is the "outsider" instead of the other way around. There is absolutely no room in your M for another person.

That being said, however, I see a couple of positives from his comment about feeling sorry for the OW. First of all, he is being open and honest with you (scores big points on my board). He could have said what you want to hear and weasle around like he's been doing to protect himself. But instead you got an open and honest view into his feelings. If he is doing a 100% turn around here, you are going to hear lots of things that hurt. One of the first major steps I had to take in order to recover our M was to allow my H to be honest without consequences from me. I can't ask him to share his feelings then blast him for them if they aren't what I want to hear. And vice versa. You both need to feel safe sharing with each other.

Secondly, in the long run I would not want to be involved with a person who can have a 4 year relationship then simply walk away with no remorse, no sympathy, no guilt for the pain caused ALL AROUND. Yes, I agree with Pepperband 100% - the OW was a volunteer, not a victim. But she is still a human being (as much as we all would like to think of our OP as subhuman <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) and he will also have to come to terms with the pain he caused EVERYONE - you, your children, himself, the OW, friends, extended family, etc. IMHO, if he is going to ask to be forgiven and ever be able to forgive himself, he needs to be forgiven for ALL the pain his selfishness has caused.

If typical, your H will probably go through stages of feelings about the OW. Later on he will probably spend some time hating her before indifference eventually sets in, which, to me is the ultimate goal. Not thinking about her, not caring about her, not even any awareness of her existance.

Of course he has a long way to go - you both do - but I see this as a sign that reinforces the fact that he is now willing to be honest with you.

Well - it has taken me all morning just to get the motivation to get out of bed. It is not that I feel tired, just not motivated. Thank goodness WH offered to take the kids to the birthday party that they were invited to. Gave me some much needed time alone without any obligations pressing.

This evening, I have a "Miss America" party to attend at the home of one of my girlfriends - just for girls. A reason for ladies to get together without husbands or kids and have fun with 'pagent antics!' I am ready for the night out - having none of this bother me for a few hours.

About WH's comments regarding OW - I agree with lots of what you said, been_there. I WANT WH to say that had doesn't care about what happens to her. But, I also know that is not reality. I don't believe that someone can have a relationship and not care what happens to the other person. I am glad WH is honest with me about what he is feelings - at least I hope he is. I still don't know that I can believe anything he says.

He does seem to understand that there are many, many people who have been hurt by this. For right now, though, he only seems concerned about the effect on me. I guess that is what he views as the biggest injustice. I agree.

Hey there,
Your party tonight sounds like a grand idea and a very good thing for you right now. You need to be pampered and enjoy yourself.

I agree you have been served the largest injutice. I am glad he sees that too.

Have a great time tonight.

Which is exactly how it should be.

If this was truly his turning point, as time goes on the awareness of all the ripple effects of the hurt he has caused will begin to seep in. It's a really hard thing for a remorseful WS to live with once that comprehension hits, and, I would guess, one of the critical points in breaking away from a LTA. A choice to allow that pain to be felt and processed or deciding there's no redemption, so what the h*11, go back to being scum and numbing it.

Have a super great time at your party tonight. M or not, A or not, girlfriends are forever!

OK, I've read almost all of the posts to this awful situation and I must put my two cents in. My ex left me for his stepmother, (yes, stepmother!) after I survived his first affair. We, of course, divorced. I just wanted to say this- there are some people in this world that are so cruel and selfish that they only want what they cannot have. I have seen men over and over again fall all over themselves to get back together with their ex just at the moment their ex decides to leave them. Only until their ex shows no interest do they come around with this "revelation" and want nothing more than to get back together with them. The loving, interested and sometimes desperate wife is boring to them and they do not appreciate having them until they are gone.
Since this is his second (or continuing) affair, he may be one of these people. I've noticed that since you became disgusted and finished with this man's actions, he suddenly turned sweet and interested. I'm not saying that he can't change this, but be very, very careful because just about the time you relax and start loving him again, he may get bored and start treating you with disrespect and disinterest. He desperately needs counseling but not at your expense.
You can test this to see if he has this problem. If you can stand it, just try acting like you are interested and loving and see how long it takes him to revert back to his cruel self. This will tell you whether he is genuine or whether he just wants want he can't have. Your disinterest to him is intoxicating to him.
As for your children and your guilt over this, just remember that you are teaching your children by example to let people mistreat them and one day they may be allowing someone to treat them with cruelty, too. You have to show them that you must have standards and that you can't let other people cross those lines. You don't want them to suffer like you have.
Fortunately, there is hope. I am now remarried to a man that is everything I ever wanted. I never dreamed long ago that I would ever be happy again. When I divorced, I made up my mind that I would accept only what I deserved. You must do the same whether it is with this husband after MUCH counseling, with someone else down the road, or maybe even with just by yourself.
Just remember that God is the only one who can see into your husband's heart and knows his true motives. Keep praying and asking God for direction. If you try to choose yourself, it is a gamble. Don't forget,too, that God Himself says that divorce is ok in this situation. Good luck and God Bless!

WTW2,

I’ll be fading out again, because Life is standing in my office door waving her arm at me calling “been_there, come out and play”! So this redneck woman is gonna go yell Yee-Haw for awhile.

Remember – people who DON’T EVEN KNOW YOU, like me, are lifting you and your family up in prayer.

All the best.

Did the Friday night "poker" game get cancelled this week?

No poker game on Friday night this week. It was a wierd night - WH wanted us to all do something together, but I could not get past the fact that it was Friday night. I just kept thinking that maybe he wanted to be somewhere else (with OW) instead. He insisted that was not true....

We had a busy weekend. For some reason, though, I just can't enjoy anything. I feel somber all the time - devoid of ANY emotions - good or bad. I just want to stay in bed watching a sappy Lifetime movie and eat ice cream. WH keeps asking me what is the matter and I honestly can't say. It was so different for me last time I went thru this....

I want to feel things again - I want to have an interest in what is going on around me. I want to enjoy things. I just don't right now. I know..... it hasn't been long and I need time to process everything that has happened. But, I can't just 'exist' and that is what I feel like I am doing right now.

WH is really trying hard to show me that he loves me and wants to repair our relationship. It is wierd, honestly. I am so used to giving and not receiving in this relationship, that it feels strange to be on the receiving end. I don't have anything to give right now, either.

I have another appointment with our counselor this week. Hopefully, I will have a better idea about what I want to do by that time. I still have not 'decided' - although I think about it all the time. I have started to feel like every day that I stay here I get a little more hope that our marriage can work. However, I am still afraid to believe that, too. I am afraid that by not doing anything - like separating - I am simply being ambivalent. I am afraid that things will eventually slip back to the way they were before. I am afraid that the cycle will repeat - that I will settle for less than I deserve and that WH will have another affair. I WANT our marriage to work - I like the person that WH has been this week. I can't say that I feel any love, but I think I probably could somewhere down the road. But, as soon as I start to let myself think about that, the fears overtake me again. So, I stay 'on the fence.'

I feel like I am babbling....... I guess that is representative of how I feel inside. Too many things going on and I can't manage to make sense of any of it.

Thanks to everyone for your continued prayers. I know that it is only by the grace of God that I have made it this far.

Dear Willing,
Some times I take such comfort from the words "be still and know that I am God." Maybe this is your be still time. There is no need to rush into a decision.

Thanks for posting and letting us know how you are.

They talk about the WS fog, but the BS fog is just as real. Maybe it is more of a life in limbo, but whatever it seems sometimes like you are on the outside looking in through some very dingy glass.

Hang in there. Know that in all this there is One who holds you in His hands, Who sees the picture clearly.

blessings

Willing2Wait2: I've not slept tonight and came online. I have spent some time reading this thread. I am amazed at your ability to cope. I am touched by those who have stayed by your side, giving you heartfelt advice. Your story has obviously touched many.

I understand the numbness, the flatline. It's a coping mechanism, one that is serving you well right now. But, yes, you will have to deal with the feelings when they erupt.

Can I make one suggestion? Perhaps you should visit your Dr. and see about getting on an anti-depressant for awhile. You've got a lot on your plate, and meds might help you through the rough spots to come.

I'd be wary about your husbands quick turnaround. If he turns that quickly, he can "turn back" again. Accountability is important, make sure he stays in that mode.

And, it's just a hunch, but I think he knew that you knew (if you know what I mean). I have hesitation in believing that he went to a funeral and his whole resolve changed. Sure, it's possible, I just have some doubts here. Even if he only "sensed" that you "might" know, his confession may not have really been totally voluntary.

I'll keep reading this thread, and routing for you.

Just thinking of you. Hope you have a good day. Jersey Girl

Hang in there, Willing. Our thoughts are with you.

Post deleted

1)hire attorney
2)hire forensic accountant
3)he's funneling money somewhere...maybe to the il'
s?
4)may be trying to sell home for a profit
5)may use angle of your supposed "depression" as grounds to counter his adultery and try to angle for custody...

how do I know? my xh did the same thing.

what I did NOT have was number 2 on my side. my xh incidentally employs his parents. they WORK FOR HIM...and they turned tables on ME too.

watch out for them.

be wary, loving but wwary.

and if you can get my email, I will gladly talk to you offline about some stuff. orchid, losthusband, greengables, and a few here have my email.

Dear WTW,

I'm so sorry that you are going through so much pain right now. You are definitely numbing out your emotions. Unfortunately, when you numb out the darker ones, you also numb out your ability to feel the more enjoyable ones too. I know...I'm a pro...LOL!

Right now you are doing just fine, but as you get a little more energy, I'd suggest you write out a letter to your H expressing how you really feel. I don't express anger easily either. Once in early recovery, my H told me that I was being mean to him. Well...I wasn't. I was being truthful and also extremely loving at the same time. He was dealing with the consequences of his own crap and once again, blaming me for the pain it was causing him. Well, then I really WAS angry and I didn't censor it. I raked him over the coals verbally for about 10 minutes. It started with, "Do you want to see me be mean?", and ended with him on the floor in a fetal position. It wasn't pretty and I wasn't proud of it, but it was a very necessary part of me finding my anger.

Now I have learned to express my anger without an outburst. Before I just stuffed it to avoid the outburst. I learned to do that at a very young age because I had an abusive father. I was punished for being angry. I think that we tend to think that our H's also punished our anger by having their affair(s) at times.

The other day, my H was feeling very poorly and had been for weeks. I reminded him that we were supposed to leave town on Thursday and requested that he see the doc on Monday since he was off work. He didn't want to do it (and I don't blame him...he needed a rectal exam and was already in pain in that area) and so he didn't go. Well, Thursday rolled around and he ended up having to go to the doctor that morning. Then the doc didn't want him leaving town because he was worried it was something serious. We had to wait around for the surgeon to call for most of the day and finally go the okay to leave (we were just going 1 1/2 hours away).

Now, don't get me wrong, I have lots of empathy for what my H is going through. I've taken care of him and done my best by him. However, I was still angry that he didn't go to the doctor when I asked him to simply because I knew instinctively that this was going to happen. When he came home from the doctor, I told him that I was very sorry that he was feeling so poorly, asked him about the appointment, etc. Then I said, "I need to say something outloud in order to not build resentment. I asked you to go on Monday and you didn't. I understand why you didn't, but I am still angry that you didn't do it then. This little trip was very important to me and I had let you know that all week. Now I've said my piece and I'm fine."

He got pretty down after I said that. I explained that I simply needed to say it. I said that it was better for our relationship for me to state it clearly and move on than to just stuff it. He agreed, but said he felt really bad about not going on Monday. I thanked him for that and told him I was over it and we could move on. I simply needed to express my anger....not even in an angry way. I just needed to give it a voice. Once I did, I was fine and could go back to helping him and caring for him.

Anyway, all of that to encourage you not to stuff your anger. Write it out, even if you don't ever show the letter to him (or at least the extremely "mean" version...lol). The nice thing about writing is that it is much easier to use those "I" statements than in the heat of a discussion.

Hang in there and keep taking care of yourself. Right now you are wounded. You ARE the victim in all of this and it's okay to embrace that. Later, when you are ready, you will move to the "survivor" section. For now you need to nurse your wounds without reservation.

Hugs,

Stillwed

Justpeachy

It sounds like your post is meant for Heidi.

Trix –
(I happened to catch your post while it was still there..... glad I did!)

I think that you were able to put into words some of the things that have been swirling around in my head. It makes more sense when I can read it in a manner that has some sense of order. Thanks for that!

First, I am still quite bewildered by the fact that the A went on for 4 years right under my nose. I am disappointed in myself because there were always things that I was uncomfortable with, yet I let them continue. I feel like I should have known. I just wanted recovery so bad that I chose to believe things that were not true. Things that I knew deep down inside were not true. But, I believed that accepting what WH told me was my part of recovery and I thought I was doing the right thing. Now, I feel stupid. Stupid that I let him get away with it. Add that to the betrayal and there is a lot of pain for me to deal with right now. I don't want to spend too much time wallowing in it, though. I feel like I am missing out on my own life like this - things are passing me by and I don't even care. I don't WANT to feel like this - I don't like it. I hope that IC can help me start to break through it when I see him this week.

WH has been totally open and honest regarding everything I ask about the A. I only ask in small doses, because there is only so much that I even want to know right now. He has been able to discuss some of the feelings and reasons that were behind his behavior and he never did that in the past. I expect that these are more of the issues that we will deal with through MC.

At this point, our counselor has not started IC with WH yet. The concern has been to help me deal with the shock and come to a decision about which way I will commit – to the marriage or to divorce. After that, counseling for both of us (IC and MC) will proceed in the appropriate manner.

He has not changed jobs, although there is a plan to make it happen at the end of this school year. Until then, he has made changes in his schedule and daily routine so that there is no contact with OW.

I honestly believe that I do want my marriage to work. I want to try because I like the person that WH is trying to be right now. I want my family to be whole and I want to raise my children in a trusting and loving family environment. I want a relationship that makes me feel happy and safe and loved.

But, I am afraid. I am afraid of getting hurt again. I am afraid to trust my own judgment – afraid that things I see as progress are not what they seem. I am afraid that things will eventually drift back to the way they were before. I am afraid that I might be settling for less than I deserve. I know that there are no guarantees for anything in life, but right now it is scary to run toward something that has already hurt me so badly.

My IC said that I should have some foundation of trust and feelings of love within about 6 months if I choose to work on the marriage. I am starting to feel like I can give it 6 months. I also find it a little ironic that WH is exhibiting all the behavior changes that I desperately wanted last time, yet now they don’t seem enough. I think that I have been so set on getting a change, that I might just be missing the one going on around me already.

So, that is where I am today. I hope that when I tell WH all these thoughts, that his reaction will help me settle on what to do. If he remains willing to try and make this a relationship that is fulfilling for both of us – to go to MC, work on boundaries, spend time with me, etc. – then I will commit to try and make our marriage work for both of us, too.

Thoughts, anyone?

WW, if you think you might hang in there, I would give it more than 6 months. The 6-12 month mark is the hardest for many, when the shock and relief wears off and the fury sets in. I wanted to "dump the scumbum" from 8 -12 months. After that, I began to feel feelings of love and respect for him.

I realize you are afraid to trust your own judgement, but that is because you DIDN'T in the past. You afforded undeserved trust to an untrustworthy person, thinking this was what you owed to your marriage. This is what has to change this time around, if you decide to keep him. He must PROVE his trustworthiness and commitment to the marriage this time. Had he not received such undeserved trust before, he might not have gotten away with this.

My point is NOT to make you feel bad for trusting him, but to point out that your instincts were probably RIGHT all along and that you can trust your judgement. You just can't trust *HIM* until he earns it.

Personally, I do hope you give him another chance if you think you can overcome the resentment. I know it will be hard, but if you are convinced he is sincere, then I think you have a good chance. If you decide to keep him, I would only suggest that you insist he leave his job and send the OW the no contact letter from SAA.

Hang in there, girl, we are all pulling for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />