RAG

I don't know

I didn't come back for a free ride...so i don't know. I came back and committed from day 1 after D-day...I never wanted to put my husband 2nd and sadly in my delusions didn't realize I was...

Mr. W,

When it happened to me, I had no idea. I thought I would ask the ladies to see if they could give me some advice.

This happened years ago. I told her no as I was sure she was just between boyfriends and needed a place to crash. However, her leaving has affected our children, especially our son. He is now 41 and still doesn't trust women. Needless to write, I'm wondering if I should have taken her back at the time.

Don't get me wrong. I have a wonderful wife now who I won't leave for anything.

exactly! I cannot stand to think about my A. But self examination forces me to do so. I do not have fond thoughts or memories of OM at all.

Exactly. Nothing fond at all at all in the thoughts - makes my stomach do knots and makes me naseous.

But I unfortunately can't forget I did it - if I did then I wouldn't learn much from it...

good morning ladies.

How are you guys today.

Not too bad here. We watched the constant gardner last night, and H couldn't make it through the first half as it insinuated his wife was having an affair, although it turned out to be wrong half way through. I was sad as H didn't even tell me he couldn't watch more - he just got up and climbed into bed with our 5yo.

He does this alot...kinda stops doing something with me to go do soemthing with one of the kids...sometimes I feel like he uses the kids so he doesn't have to get too close to me...our 5yo has slept in our bed for months again now after we got her weaned off of it...and if I try to put her in her bed he gets angry that he doesn't see her all day and this is the only time he gets with her. They snuggle together...it's very cute. he is a dedicated loving dad...I tried to put my foot down about it before for DD's sake and got burned...and I have become a bit of a conflict avoider as of late just to let H have whatever space he needs to get through whatever he is going through.

Don't get me wrong. he still reminds me he loves me, he still has moments here and there with me where he hugs me, or brishes his hand on my shoulders...and it reminds me that he loves me...but the distance that seems to be between us somedays is tough...and if I bring up how I am feeling, that it triggers me to his behavior during his A, I get my A thrown at me in full force, how it was my fault, how his was collateral, how me complaining reminds him of me last year, that he can't trust that I am complaining or feeling these things for real or if I am in an affair again...and I just don't want those fights and hurt...so I avoid it right now...

good morning all, i think i have avoided this thread long enough now this morning. time to make good on the promise that i would come back and answer your question.

what i am about to write only applies to what occured after 2001. keep in mind (because unfortunately i always have to) i also cheated on my H while i was still in college and we were engaged and then again about 5 yrs into our marriage.
i was very sick at the time. april 1 2001, my dad died, after battling cancer for about 1.5 years. the majority of that 1.5 yrs he was able to enjoy life, early treatment was very helpful, but it was stated that he would not have much time. he actualy had more time than dr. predicted. now one might think, great, that gave everyone time to do whatever they might need to do to heal any old wounds. that did not happen, he showed no more interest in having a relationship with any of us (i have 3 siblings) then he did during any other time of our lives. and it was a really painful time. my one sister commented that she that the pain she was feeling would not stop until he did die. and i knew exactly what she meant. and what a terrible way to feel. what kind of person wishes their dad would just die already so we could stop wanting something that he did not? at least once he was dead, we would no longer have to say "and he still wants nothing to do with us". cuz the option is finally gone. you can't long for something that is no longer possible to have.

only my one sister and i went to his funeral, and we felt like complete strangers. our step mom (who married my dad when i was about 8, which, by the way, started out as an A) corrected the funeral chapel when he told her, during the services at the funeral home, to lean on your daughters. when she came up to address everyone, she literally said, those are not my daughters, they were Joe's daughters.

the whole time he was sick i was crashing and crashing bad, and that is when i started a really bad internet chatting habit. but H didn't really know. i was staying up till 4 or 5am many mornings, but he never noticed. i even confided in him once, but all he said was stop doing that. our marriage was extremely distant at that point. not that the distance was just my H's fault, because it was not. but the fact remains, my H, our marriage was not something i could lean on. and i needed something so badly. remembering how i felt during that time in my life really really hurts. i so badly wanted to die. i think that is why i had such a bad reaction yesterday. it is painful and scary to remember how badly i wanted to kill myself back then.

shortly after my dad died, i finally broke enough to where my department head saw it. even then i tried to control the situation. but i was put on leave of absense and put in a mental health program. i felt so ashamed, work was the one thing in my life that i truely felt good about. it was the thing that gave me the only validation of being a worthwhile person that i had. and i was no longer able to even keep myself together enough to do that.

i went back to work mid june of 2001, i was only off for about 3 months. but i was still a mess, i had tried to seek help while there. their goal was to ensure i was no longer suicidal. i was honest about the internet problem i was having. at the time, when asked, what are your coping mechanisms, i stated chatting on the internet. as if that was a good thing. i was told that was not healthy, read a book or work on a craft instead. the was the extent of addressing that issue. like i said, the empahsis was on suicidal thoughts. and there were some other really screwed up people in the program with me too. i should of gotten into intense IC right then and there.

but i didn't, instead i went back to work, doing my best to act like all was well. and then i snapped, i found a new drug. all these guys that enjoyed talking to you on the computer so much, they all wanted to meet. so i picked one, didn't matter to me who it was, i went into a local chat room, to find someone how lived close to me. i only chatted with him once before agreeing to face to face mtg in a public place and then 2 days later to go to his apt. i knew what i was doing, if i couldn't literally kill myself, i could do it this way. make myself just a piece of meat that anyone could have.

so there ya have it, how i feel when i think back to the beginning.

which of course is not the beginning, cuz i had already strayed. and i have to come to terms with all that too. the above might sound like i conclude oh poor me, well i don't, trust me, i don't.

it all just hurts. reliving how i felt in 2001-2003 hurts, coming to terms and living with the pain i have brought to my H hurts.

that's why i just can't go there at all. i have to stay in today and looking towards the future only.

am i kidding myself? am i never going to heal unless i look at this more?

{{{dorry}}}

i wish i could say more to help you. i'll try to come back later and do just that. right now, i'm going to take a bit of a break.

FL - you know what happened...you know where you were - you don't have to keep looking at it. You know what you need to change and are changing it...only if you felt a regression would I say go back and see what you missed.

I am a FIRM believer that you do need to live in TODAY and look at the future - it's the only thing that is keeping my amrriage together is H and I looking at today and tomorrow and not last year...

I am at a point where I am starting to feel, that after one year, going back all the time is no longer helping me but hindering me. Does that make sense?

I have analyzed it and myself so much that now I think it may be time to let go of it and concentrate on the changes I have implemented and keep them going...

I also find that just when I am starting to forgive myself, and like myself something happens that makes me re-examine the past and i get hurt, angry, depressed, etc and it back tracks me horrendously.

I think there is a point where you have to move past the past and not keep going back...I think you are there FL...and I think I am close after a year of some harsh deep self analyzation.

edited to add...

we all do need to look at ourselves when we first come out of the A's - figure out why in ourselves we did - to take ownership of it- to no longer blame others. once we are there and we know what we need to do - I wonder if letting go of the past is the key to our personal recoveries?

FL~(and of course others who have the time to read this)

Thank you so much for sharing your story, I can see how painful that was to do.

I can relate to certain portions of it, probably more than I can type. I understand fully the suicidal feelings...At the time that my OM contacted me, I had already come up with a plan to end it all myself. There will always be a part of me that wonders if I would have followed through with my plans if not for that contact...blessing/curse kinda thing...it seems horrible to me to say the word blessing as it pertains to my affair, but I'm just not sure how things would have gone otherwise.

My H and I had also let ourselves become so distant around that time. He was leaving our house at around 7:40a.m., and then working most nights until 12:00 or 1:00a.m.-I had given up on even caring if he was home or not. I certainly was doing nothing to make home an inviting place to be. On nights that he was home, I almost resented it, because it cut into the routine that I had established for myself. Wow, of any two people in the world, I never would have dreamed that we would become like that...we had always had such an incredible connection. Portions of our story were quite "storybook", so to speak. We just quit nurturing "us"...we took "us" for granted. Please know that I am not making excuses for my A...but something brings you to that point...reasons you get there-do you know what I'm talking about? I believe many of these reasons put my resolve against ever having an A, in a weakened state...I guess? I do not think that I am a horribly character flawed individual...I think that all conditions were in position when I came to that "jumping off point"...this is just one of the theories that I've gone over in my mind when asking the question that I know all FWW do...WHY?

I also understand what you are talking about regarding your father. My own father has Bipolar Disorder, and our relationship has been tumultuous(sp?) for most of my life. Many times I have wished him dead during a manic phase. Throughout my life I have always been vying for his acceptance and apologies...Now I have, through counseling, come to accept that those things will just never come...he just doesn't have the capability. We like someone because, we love someone although, I suppose...

I talked to my H about you all last night...how that a lot of times I feel guilty about not feeling like some of you do regarding my OM...when I look back at what I did and almost lost because of it, I am embarrassed and completely shocked by my actions...I don't even recognize me in most of the stunts that I pulled, but I don't get nauseous or have knots in my stomach, nor do I harbor extreme negative feelings about my OM, as many here seem to do...Please understand that I KNOW that I can NEVER be in contact with him again, nor do I want to be and I completely get all the reasons why...But I grew up with my OM...I've known him since I was 12 or 13 years old...in a very small town...I know his "mama and daddy" well...I have memories of him that are positive even before we ever dated...I was a cheerleader for all the football teams he ever played for, when my dad had a heart attack when I was in 11th grade he collected and brought me all of my homework assignments...during my senior year high school rebellion when I "ran away" to FL for Spring Break, he gave me a place to stay and made me call my parents to tell them I was alright...I was at more of his soccer games than I could ever count...I went to one of his college homecomings with him...after a friend of ours tried to commit suicide, it was he and I that "suicide-proofed" her house and stayed with her...and so much more...

My H and I concluded that it is hard/impossible for me to wipe out someone who is such a huge part of my childhood history completely. I also don't view myself as victimized by him in regards to the A...I think that we were two people in really bad places in our lives, looking for a way to return to the security of our childhood past to replace the turmoil that was taking place in our adult lives at the time...Does that make sense to anyone? Does it sound like a bunch of foggy excuses? I hope not...I told you guys yesterday just how heads above my H is comparativatively. I'd give anything if I had had the good sense not to walk such a dangerous tightrope by talking to an OM that I should have seen as a threat to the security of my marriage in the first place...I honestly didn't think that was even a remote possibility when I first began talking to him. I should have seen it, but I really didn't. I am grateful that I haven't had to go through as much as so many people here have...my A was very short lived comparatively...I never moved out, or had to go through plan B...I will never be able to express how grateful I am to have the second chance that I've been blessed with with my H...I appreciate him so much more, and am constantly amazed at his grace where I am concerned...when I see some of the A's here end in divorce, I always KNOW, there but for the grace of God go I...

Boy, this is quite a rambling post...thanks to everyone who reads it...I welcome any feedback that you might have for me...Hope any of this made sense to someone... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Dorry, I know how hard it is to get kids out of our beds LOL My DD 13 would still be there if I let her! I worry about this though because it sounds like Sprint is using the kids to avoid intimacy with you. Any chance you can have a calm discussion about this? Maybe with a MC? It is not good for kids to sleep with their parents past the age of 2 IMHO. Dorry, in the book Co-dependency No More she talks about suppressing your feelings not being healthy and actually making those feelings too important because we deny them. She says it is better to acknowledge your feelings and then let them going knowing that feelings change. Don't avoid this, Dorry. I think you are falling into a trap and will end up very angry.

{{{FL}}}
Thank you for sharing that. I know that must have been painful. I agree with Dorry that since you KNOW the why's self examination and going back over and over is not likely going to change anything for you. I know IC has been helpful for you too. You really are in a much healthier place now than I think you give youself credit for.

Mrs. W, I think I understand your feelins about your history with OM but I also think eventually you will come to a place in your mind where you just can't have positive thoughts, feelings and memories of OM. You may try discussing this aspect with KiwiJ. She had a similar experience as her OM was her HSS.

I know FF...

Part of my recovery was discovering I was co-dependent...but it's a fine balance of expressing myself in the right way that still allows my H to heal..because it's only been 13 months since D-day...and he is still healing...and he wont read books, go to councelling, etc - so he is on this on his own...I want to give him what he needs to...sometimes I feel stuck between a rock and hard spot.

I wrote a few months ago about a bad fight H and I had over me bringing this up...about feeling second...and it didn't go well - I deleted that post - but many of you read it - it put me so far back...the things he said - the fight we had...I don't want to be in that spot again.

He is not like this normally - he was hurting...and we have made progress - for example - h never apologizes...the other day we had a little tiff and he said something mean...normally I would defend myself and argue back (not in a good way...poor communications) but the new me, listens to what he is saying - analyzes it and if he is just frustrated and it is coming out - walk away, or sit down and say nothing at that minute and bring it back up at a better time for me - when I wont say something I regret. i did this...and he left the house to go to the office. When he got back, I was going to bing it up - but I didn't have to. He looked at me and said I am sorry I was like that earlier - I was mad at myself for loosing it and didn't need to be mad at you for it too. I was surprised.

My H is also making changes - he wont tell me about them -but bit by bit I am seeing them. I just sometimes wish I knew where he stood - what his feelings are about recovery etc - but he told me after his d-day 7 months ago that this was something he had to do own his own...and not share with me - his personal recovery...it bugs me - but everyone has to do it the way they feel comfortable. Not everyone agrees with MB - ya know?

I know I am not denying the feelings- it's why I am here talking. I am just trying not to bring them up with H...or finding other ways to slide in the topic in a different way.. Bringing it up at once triggers him big time, which then makes him cruel and mean - when he thinks about the affair he is very mean to me. It's his pain talking. Then he feels horrible about it in the end...and is depressed that he lashed out. He doesn't need that.

I can't force him to deal with it another way - he has to get to points the way he needs to - stubborn man...so I have to work with what I have.

I keep in mind my good friend - it took her 4 years for her husband to finally be completely past those lash outs...and now 5.5 years later - they can even joke about having boyfriends and girlfriends...playfully - ya know? He wouldn't talk - he wouldn't see a councellor, and so she just became the best wife she could be to let him get through it all and waited. She said it was the hardest thing - but so worth it in the end.

My mom has a similar story with my stepdad...and she says now - 10 years post d-day - and it took alot of time (my step dad was the WS BTW) but my dad now treats my mom like $1000000000000 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She says after 23 years she didn't expect it ...after his affair, she became a wife like that too - not codependent - as she read the books and came out - but more like a wife as described in his needs/her needs - she led...she didn't argue like she used to...she started to really understand her husband...and bit by bit - his self centeredness wore away..and he started to really care about her needs.

I feel my husband is one of these men - and it's just going to take pateince. I put a bump in the road by having an affair - I set us further back than we ever were...I should have been doing this to begin with - understand who he is, how he works...being a Godly wife, or a MB wife - leading...I dont mean going without my needs being met...but being careful about my selfish tendancies...wanting the world to revolve around me...and when it doesn't - not coping well with it...

ps i have the book co-dependent no more <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Did I ever recommend the book the self confident woman to you? It's VERY helpful on co-dependency - but relates it more on a God sense - helps you reconnect with God and learn healthy relationships through him.

I understand now. Did you read Co-dependent No More? So most days you put your Taker away and let your Giver rule until Sprint catches up with you in the recovery process. Am I understand that correctly?

Ya know I want to get that book. Someone else mentioned reading it on your recommendation. Once I finish the book I am working on now I will pick it up. Thanks!

Something like that.

Except that I dont deny the feelings - I do talk about them, get them out - acknowledge that it is a problem - I dont try to sweep it under the rug - I just talk to God about it - talk to you guys - find other things to make me happy for that time...and then enjoy the moments I DO get with Sprint...and don't let resentment build up so I can't enjoy those moments.

The old me would have just let it go...swept it under...chalked it up to this and that. The new me is actually trying to put myself in Sprints shoes...realize he is struggling too - that it may not make it right for the me to have to suffer through his struggles - but that not to assume he isn't trying...I can see his attempts to change. Change just isn't easy for him (as it's not for any of us) He is very stubborn, very smart and analytical, and very untrusting of his feelings and of God...

FF~

Thanks for the input...I don't necessarily see how my not feeling completely negative where he is concerned is harmful...that's why I'm posting here...many times after getting others comments here, though I might not agree with them at first, I have later come to understand with more clarity than I ever could have on my own...these boards are a Godsend...

I want to make it clear that none of my positive memories of OM are from during the A, no, not one...there are more negative feelings than I could list where he is concerned from during that time period...but to completely condemn him, I would also have to completely condemn myself...I know how wrong my actions were...but I know that the A is something that I did, it is NOT who I am...

I believe it would be impossible to turn positive childhood/teenage memories to negative ones...OM and I ran in the same group, I would have to suffer from serious amnesia to erase all of that...For Goodness sake, I graduated with him, he was at the same "after parties" with all of us...It would mean erasing the history that I shared with so many other friends...including girlfriends who were 3 of my 6 bridesmaids(and I was 28 when I got married-those are some long time friendships)...How would that even be possible? I don't think that I want that to be possible...would anyone ever want to erase truly positive memories...those times were not negative where he is concerned...we were innocents back then, we never could have known that we would grow up and have an adulterous affair together...in a small town so much is done in groups, how do I erase those memories, do you all really see those as harmful?

Again, I reiterate, that I will NEVER have contact with him again...but I can't help that I am still friends with many GIRLS from my past...they don't and won't know about the A, so I can't help if someday in the future someone mentions his name...I don't have to participate in active conversations about him, but I can laugh at some of the old memories that he happened to be present for...lazy summer days at the pool-featuring "professional pool wrestling","pasture parties", a tractor "maiming" incident, etc...( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Oh Yes This Town was SMALL!!!)

Thoughts?

Mrs. W

Mrs. W, I am not judging you by any means I hope you know that. I was also not implying you have good memories of the A. I guess what I was saying is it is dangerous to have positive thoughts, memories of the OM in your mind. Jen, had to get to a point of just not reminiscing about her HS days so she could avoid thoughts about OM. Does that make sense? BTW, my FOM was a friend for at least 10 years prior to the A. I have had to work hard to erase some memories and they still pop up from time to time.

FF...

I know...trust me, I am so grateful for the dialogue. You all have helped me more than you will ever know. Thank you so very much!

Mrs. W

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