Ok, finally getting a chance to write again. Yes, we are both in weekly IC. He is facing tough issues, finally, instead of blaming others and hiding from them. I'm proud of him for doing this and tell him so. We are at a point where we are kind and very tentatively loving towards each other. We haven't fought in over a month. (3 days was our previous record) We both just signed year leases on our apts, so it's definately understood that this will take awhile.

As far as my recovery? I am starting to figure out what I want and like and have my own dreams. I am starting college in a few months, with the help of some grants specifically for victims of domestic violence. I can really forsee my future as a single mother, going to college, and raising my children by myself; only having a relationship with a man IF it contributes to my life in a positive way.

The kids are all doing good. My 4 year old seems to have the most residual issues. A lot of fear and regression. The baby is healthy and growing like crazy. I have so much to be thankful for!!

Are you guys doing communication exercises?

Big kudos on changing the dance within your marriage...sounds like you're choosing to act, not react.

And it sounds like you've come a long way in relying on yourself...is that true for you?

I'm thankful you're here, when you can...that you do...

LA

No were not doing any specific communication exercises. What are some examples of what you're refering to? We are getting along better and acting morepositively together instead of reacting negatively. We are also becoming very good at forgiveness, both asking for it and granting it. We still have so far to go, sometimes it's just overwhelming and so daunting. I am starting to feel pretty confident about relying on myself. Still not living together or "happy" together. Fairly unfulfilling marriage all in all. Not horrible anymore but not really gratifying in any way except for Josh (our newborn) to be able to be with both parents at the same time. Any advice or insight in to things we might be able to do to bring some positives, and maybe even some joy and love back into the relationship?

There are communication exercises in "Fighting For Your Marriage" by Howard Markman, et. al; and "Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work" by Gottman. (I forgot his first name!)

You're in the healing time, Suther...recognizing where you aren't at--divorced, screaming, withdrawing and punishing...the patterns before...is better than looking only at not feeling happy together, having all your needs met, or thriving.

You'll get there...if you choose to believe that. What you believe gives you your emotions...they are information...if you choose to believe "It should be better than this" you'll experience disappointment, resentment, maybe frustration and anger...and if you believe "It should be better than this already or right now" then you'll feel all those and anger and fear. Might feel like the old you...the old marriage, huh?

You're powerful, Suther...choose wisely.

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Communication exercise we did:

We scheduled two nights a week for one half hour each...(not too much time when you think about...and we counted it towards our 15 hours of undivided attention)...

On a Sunday, we would sit down next to each other without tv, radio, etc...or be in the car, next to each other...and DH would talk for 20 minutes...sharing his thoughts, feelings, stuff he wanted to. I would listen...and concentrate on hearing because at the end of those 20 minutes, I would summarize what I heard...it's difficult to talk and to listen in this format...helps train the listeners' brain to only hear, not react (when we react, we don't hear)...and tough on the speaker because talking for 20 minutes ups the honesty level...every pause is heard...so stream of consciousness kinda takes over...thoughts come and prompt other thoughts, like spontaneous revelations...

In my summary, I begin "I heard you say..." After I summarize for five minutes, he then takes five minutes to confirm what I heard or clarify. Done!

We aren't allowed to talk about anything he said for 24 hours...delays the reactive experience...if you're still reacting 24 hours later, you ask to sit down and say why you're reacting...usually, as fired up as I might be inside, it would dissapate within those long hours to the level I could figure out why and stop reacting. I thought I would be talking to him (at him) for SURE after each exercise...and it didn't happen.

LOL

Then, on Thursday, we'd reverse..I would talk, he would would summarize, and I'd clarify or confirm.

We did this for over a year and a half...and even now, as we kind of do this on the fly, from habit, there are times when my DH or me will say, "I want to do the exercise tonight...what do you think?"

I think it's critical to rebuilding trust lost through years of an abusive relationship..establishes a safe place, trains our brains to really listen and not react...reinforces the separate and equal...sharing and intimacy.

Which is where all these marvelous loving feelings come pouring in from, I believe...my experience...from my choosing to love, acting lovingly (doing the exercise as it was intended, not as bait to use against each other)...that's where the love wells up from inside and overflows...same from him...so we experience feeling loved and trusted, even as we love and trust.

There was no right now about it...took time and discovery...worth every hour a week it took, in my book. Helped me with coworkers, children, friends...family....awesome stuff. Learning to listen without reactions...wow.

LA

well, we went to one MC session and then he was too "sick" to go to the next one. Still went to work though. just a matter of priorities it seems. He still refuses to wear his wedding ring, still no SF. I'm feeling very hopeless. We are still married but not much positive interaction gooing on. I feel that I need some kind of reassurance of his sincerity and committment in order to hold on and continue trying. He thinks i'm just trying to get my way, whatever that means. When do you know to let go? When is enough enough? Please help with any advice!!

Sutherland,

Whenever I slipped my focus onto WH by spending my time looking at what he was or wasn't doing, judging his commitment level and sincerity...I would spiral downward.

I didn't like the spiral. I knew I couldn't control a thing about him. So I began to notice when I had those thoughts and flip them back into my own arena.

Am I sincere? Am I committed? Have I changed my goal?

Am I taking what he thinks as the truth instead of his truth? Did I forget and slip back into my pattern that if he perceives I'm only trying to get my way, I doubt myself?

Helped to recenter me...to get to my own stuff...not to the reactive me of old.

Changing me changed everything. I learned what I did for the marriage wasn't what I would have done for my DH, necessarily...

LA

i know what your saying.. instead of focusing on whether he wears his wedding ring, I make sure i wear mine, to show my committment. I try and be loving and not LB, whether he does or not. I guess I'm just about at the end of my rope of being able to extend love and forgiveness without ever getting any emotional support back. There is the occasional hug and I love you from him, but no SF, no help with the children, no time spent together, no MC, nothing. I know I'm just venting, not doing anything constructive or proactive. I just hurt, and I'm lonely, and tired. I am ready to just give up. I need to find some motivation for continuing this very unfulfilling fight.

Suther,

What I meant with the flip over is that giving to get doesn't work. You know this. I know you've experienced this...it's a downward spiral...you do so he'll do is response-based living.

Flipping it over, finding your choice, your own power and living in your own focus changes that...then you act on your choice to love...and you feel filled up with love...because you are...it's overflowing outward...not snaking out to ensnare and retrieve...it is learning to shine...which opens you to see, because your love is from your own choice, that others' love is a gift, from them, of their own choice.

Each I love you no longer stands to the comparison of "Did I earn it?" The full power within loving comes in like a herald, each hug like a vow...as the gifts they truly are.

Essential to you loving from choice, acting on it, not to get but to be who you really are and know your choice, is speaking of it. Sharing your self-discoveries out loud...being known and listening, to know.

Awaken your life, Sutherland...by awaking yourself. Your mindset, your perception, determines how you experience life and all its parts...the old way isn't working for you...really never worked...yet you persist in making something work where you have no control.

Personal recovery is essential in abuse and affairs. It isn't a fight...choosing that symbol can drain your own energy and you may believe he's draining you, and he can't. Doesn't have that control.

Only you do.

There are ways you live that you lived before, in your first marriage...other relationships...reaching for you to see and learn and live differently...so you can thrive.

You found the villagers thread...which is awesome. It's about personal recovery...from a lifetime of serving self-image, not self...embracing. Doesn't take a fight, takes acceptance, appreciation, understanding, acknowledgment...all those things you're craving right now, used to them coming in from the outside of self...when self is starved for them from you, the most.

Abundant life, Suther...I promise you this from my own experience. Remember? I was you; you were me...giving up was what I did best (okay, maybe wrecking havoc ties it), and I know now that giving up on me was what I was doing, without even knowing who I really was.

With you all the way, kiddo.

LA

my fwh is pushing for us to move back in together, saying he's tired of coming home to an empty house when he does have a wife and family. I'm so scared about taking that step though! I'm so afraid of putting my family's security and safety in his hands! He's made a lot of progress in counseling but how will I know if it's enough???

hello? bump..

hey all... so we are living together again.. tentatively. I still have my apartment, we are just "staying" over here. I want to believe it will be permanent and I think so does he, but I'm sooooo scared. He has been doing very well with his IC but we are yet to find a MC that he likes enough to stick with. I'm jumpy around him although I am enjoying the love he is once again starting to show me. I worry that I don't feel the same as I once did for him but I'm trying to have faith that by showing love and doing loving things, I will eventually feel it too. I wonder sometimes why I'm even doing any of this. He's done so many awful things to us that no one would blame me for divorcing him. In fact, people tell me all the time to leave him. I feel that no one is on my side in seeing the good in him, except maybe his counselor. I do believe he is making changes in the right direction. I'm just sooooo tired...

Hey, Suther,

Only you can know what you're doing, what you're choosing to do and why.

No one else has province over that.

What about your own counseling...is that continuing?

Are you saying you still feel doubt over your choices?

You feel jumpy...find out why...you believe he's making changes in himself in the right direction, beginning to show you his love for you...where's the jump coming from in you?

Are you living in the past or the unknown future?

Right now...when you get centered on today only...what do you feel?

You married a human being...and you are one. Why not assess how many friends you have of your marriage...and that if they are willing to tear down your marriage, they may not be the friends you believe they are?

What goals do you have for your own self-growth? Where's all the resistance inside you coming from (inside you) which is causing you to feel so tired, full of effort and no reward?

Our perspective either gives us or saps us of energy...find yours. You can do this...see if a lot of your energy is going into fighting yourself...your stuff...your thoughts, beliefs, feelings and perceptions...

How are the kids? Do they like being back in the house with him? Have you listed all your ENs lately to see where he may be meeting them? Love deposits can't get in if we block them...and we do that through suspicion, ignoring those deposits and through fear.

Find your fear...know it thoroughly...may be reasonable or unreasonable, right now.

You chose to move back in...you are not trapped. You are standing for your marriage...how does that feel?

LA

LA... as always, thank you for your insight. I don't know the answer to many of these questions but I'm digging deep to find them. I know I'm living in fear.. of finding him back on the internet dating sites.. of finding he's involved in yet another "innappropriate" opposite sex friendship.. of him just changing his mind about us living together and kicking us out, especially after my safety net (ie apt) is gone. I have unbelievable hurt and anger about the past and I live in terror of the future. If I can discipline my mind to just live in the present, I would be content. He is treating us well and for the most part being loving and reasonable. I am still in counseling and my therapist is very openly leery of my trusting him. I have pulled away from most of my friends due to the fact that they think I'm crazy for going back with him but I worry that this is one of the steps needed in order for an abusive relationship to exist.. that of isolation. I'm trying to make friends with women who are neutral but I made the mistake of confiding a fear about my marriage to one of my new friends, whose husband is friends with my H. She immediately told her hubby who immediately told mine, and he was furious I would air our dirty laundry like that. This was about a month ago and I don't know if he would still react the same way now or not, he's made so much progress towards being loving and understanding just in the last few weeks.

I do feel good about my choice to stand by my marriage. Not at any cost, accepting ANY treatment, but with the mutual respect that's starting to develoop between us, I do feel that I'm making a conscious decision to stick to my husband.. through the normal thick and thin that is marraige.

I think I posted somewhere that my FWH has NPD. This is a very difficult disorder to recover from and takes extreme motivation by the person who has it. This motivation usually comes from hitting rock bottom in life, with everything in the house of cards that is their life, falling apart at the same time. This is where my H has been for the last few months, with it peaking last night with him being arrested at our home, in front of our kids. He has pushed the limit with the law so long, and let things go for so long that it's all starting to catch up with him. I think he felt the noose tightening so to speak and that's why he has been so extremely motivated to make changes in his life and himself.

Last night was hard and I realized how much my feelings for him had returned. I hated seeing him go through that even though I know it's his own doing. He is facing a felony charge, for breaking probation on a previous felony conviction. I'm scared...

well, he's out on bail. It cost us our rent money, almost a 1000 dollars but he needed to get back to work. Court is next week. I'm afraid he'll end up with 6 months in jail. Thank goodness I still have my section 8 apartment. He's treating me and the kids very well and continues to seem very motivated to make changes in his entire life, not just in our marraige. I'm still so afraid to open up my heart to him, for so many reasons, but here I am.

hello??? anyone out there?

Hey there. You are right to be hesitant and to hold your heart back a little. He has not come close to showing you that you can be safe around him. Let him hit rock bottom (maybe the arrest and some jail time will be it) and then let's see. I know it pains you to see someone you love (loved?) hurt and go through trials and tribulations but sometimes that is God's only resource to get their attention. I fully expect my now Ex WW to find this out the hard way much like your WH.

Hang in there and go slow.

Suther,

I'm confused...if most likely he'll have to serve some time, why bail him out? Why not have him do the time until his court date as time served? Pay rent instead? Will him working another week keep his job if next week he's sentenced to three or six months?

I think your choice to stand by and understand these are consequences catching up to him...supporting that he's changed and taking his consequences well, is terrific. Affirming. I don't, however, understand the bailing out part.

As for you having a hard time choosing to open your heart...what if this helps? What if what you needed was to see him act not react to something huge...and you're seeing that...so you'll choose over the next few months to stay present, deal with reality and with him, from love?

How are you doing with handling the changes, possibilities, future you can't control? You sound fantastic...how do you feel?

LA

thank you for your kind words.. I feel so alone in this and it helps to know someone out there cares and has thought of me even for a minute. I do still love him but not like I used to. It's so sad to see love die like that, ya know? Do you feel like you are finally now able to move on with your life now that you and your WW are divorced? Do you have children together? I think that's the hardest thing is to see him with our son, and how great he is as a dad. It's what keeps me trying and hoping..

Yes, the divorce while hard did bring some finality and let me move forward. We even had a custody battle with me gaining custody of our then 18 month old son so this eased the pain and lessened the tremendous worries around that matter. There were times when she was a good mom but good mom's don't have affairs on their family, don't get involved with a man where she works, a man who has admitted under oath to being a serial cheater, a man whose own family will not see or speak to him and more, a good mom doesn't ignore the pain in her children's eyes all the while having the means to make it stop if she will make the effort, sane mother's don't walk away from children and good marriages for selfish, internal reasons and more.

Well you WH may be a good playmate for you children but is he really that great of a dad right now or is it that really want him to be or believe he can become one. I ask because like my EX WW, his actions don't support the statement that he's a good dad.

Just know that in the end you are going to be okay either way. Stay strong.