Faith ~ we can talk about ANYTHING to do with being a second...

Yes, a HUGE difference with regard to acceptance. Part of it really might be about maturity and realizing we can change nobody but ourselves (that's what my therapist tells me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) I used to be a HUGE control freak... now I'm still controlling, but it isn't my lifes work, and it's not the huge deal it was when I was younger. Plus, I really *like* who my H is, and he likes who I am... which is very different from my first marriage (in the later years, especially).

In my second marriage, it's a totally different situation than in my first marriage, ESPECIALLY in regard to communication. That's siimply because my second H is a big talker, like me, and my first H was a tortured soul wrapped in a dark poet. I liked that about him (of course) in the beginning, but it got really... um... sad... almost pathetic, as the years went on. He posted here for awhile back in 1999-2000 and people had trouble reading what he wrote... he really is a poetic, kind of flowery writer... and he talked the same way. Sometimes I seriously didn't know what the heck he meant when he talked, and I don't think I'm dense. He was intelligent, but it didn't come out in his speech (I always tried to compensate for that with him... spoke *for* him when others didn't understand... but see, that's a controlling action, isn't it?)

The teamwork aspect was non-existent in my first marriage. I did everything that had to do with the kids... homework, school meetings, doc, ortho, psych... you name it, I did it. I didn't work as hard (physcially) as my H. He was (is) a workaholic, and though I'm not lazy, I prefer mind-work to body-work. My H now nows how to RELAX, and it's relaxing TO ME. That sets a nice tone to begin the process of making decisions, you know?

nams, I agree that it's best )especially if you have small children) to have a man who's been a father. Who else could understand the struggles we have as parents?

Immovingon -- you have mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I knew that if I were to get married again, I would not want to deal with the EX wife or step kids. I have heard my share of horror stories about this from friends and families, I rather not go there. I already have 5 children, and that is enough for me. :-)

In my second marriage, I want a man who I can respect, I want your John Wayne type of man. I want us to be best friends, and for us to be great together, as in a team. I want to make sure that we share the same morals, values, and beliefs.

I have found him, but taking my time, and just enjoying the moment for now.

That is key for me.....I dated a never married, no kids bachelor in his 40's and while it was fun and wild and exciting and a complete mess, I KNEW he was not the one for me.....he was too set in his ways (as in HIS way was the right way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />), and just had no perspective of the time and energy and sacrifice involved when you have children. He'd only ever been responsible for himself, things were exactly how he wanted them, when he wanted them.....he was exhausting to be around sometimes even though he saw himself as the most laid back, easy going of guys...pfft, yeah right....

I learned ALOT from that relationship!

er, did I get off topic? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

devastated,

Nope, you didn't go off topic, and even if you had, everyone is welcome to share anything... sometimes the BEST discussions come from the little rabbit trails we take...

Immovingon,

It is hard to deal with all the baggage, and it's good that you know YOUR boundaries.

Honestly, I would have felt the same way, because haven't we ALL heard the horror stories? Who hasn't seen The First Wives Club (I thought it was a little too man-bashing, myself)... but it was humorous. And yep, don't we all know *someone* who's struggled with ex's and stepkids?

One thing I keep in mind is that *I'm* a first wife, too. I'm someone's ex. I hope I never scare the snot out of some poor unsuspecting possible-wife for my ex-H (though I'd love to have a chat with her before the nuptuals <evil grin>)... but she better treat my kids right... that's ALL I know (though my kids, understandably, can fend for themselves with daddy's girlfriends, and they do!)

And stepmums get a bum rap, too. Go to fairy tales... Cinderalla... wicked stepmum... c'mon... LOL.

It's something to think about BEFORE you do it, which is why I began this thread. Just to be clear, I DIDN'T. My whole life has been one learning experience after another, and usually after I get proverbally smacked in the head.

Can we go back to the discipline topic for a minute?

I used to agree that step-parents should not discipline, I guess mainly because of what I'd read.

Now I"m involved with a man and we have 4 kids full time between us. We both have disciplined each other's kids. I guess I'm not sure how it's different from a babysitter disciplining, or even onother mother who's in charge of my kids for the day. Break the rules, face the consequences. What difference does it make who enforces it?

Or are you talking bigger issues? Can we clarify that?

My BF and I are not talking M at this point, but we will have parenting and discipline issues if it goes that directions, as my kids are angels and his are terrors, (HAHA) but in actuality we do have VERY different discipline techniques.

thanks!

cm

Maybe I should have put this on the "blending families" thread???

cm

It isn't (only) semantics, it is the essence... at least, I agree with 'children first'... if children are 'neglected' while we 'build a strong 2nd marriage', it'll come as boomerang and no good from it either.

Good point.
However, that'd be a very difficult for me, if I ever decide to remarry...
My ratio says - yes, disciplining in those little daily things, it's inevitable, but never major ones (without agreement/permission with/by the parent).
Mom in me (who adores her child, sometimes I think too much) thinks - oh, no...
I mean, I couldn't stand anyone disciplining my son IF that one doesn't have the same methods as me! Period.
(Even if he has... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)
I.e., my parenthing is 'positive parenthing techniques', and I cannot imagine that anyone would be allowed to use 'corporal punishment', or even just kritisize my child (putting him down, verbally, e.g.).
But probably it has all different dimension once you love someone and try to compromise and work on your R/M...
From this perspective, now, that would be deal breaker number one.
Re: his children, if any... I would try to be good as much as possible, as I'm good for my own child.
And disciplining them... I'd leave it to him... and any issue will tell him not them...


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good topic.

I think the key to a successful second marriage is communication, communication, communication.

When I got married, I had the mistaken impression that it was going to be a modern-day "Leave It To Beaver" marriage...that somehow, some way, all of those problems that came up that involved things we didn't discuss before marriage would be worked out in 30 minutes (less time for commercials) and everyone would live happily ever after.

My XH was divorced, and I never really asked WHY? He was 11 yrs old than I am, and had no children from marriage #1. He knew I wanted children. (I was 29 when we met, and my biological clock was going off about every 15 minutes or so.) He SAID he wanted children, but then blamed me for ruining his life when I got pregnant with child #1 (now 7.)There were TONS of other issues, as well, but there's really no need to innumerate them here...the point is, the marriage failed.

I am now involved with someone and we are talking very seriously about marriage, blending our two families, etc.

But neither of us wants to make the same horrible mistakes we made the first time around.

As far as children go, I have told him that I realize that I am not, nor can I ever be, their "mother." I can be, and plan to be the woman that LOVES their father, totally and completely. It's important for children to see a successful, loving marriage.

I cannot replace their mother, nor do I intend to. Further, I have told him that any communications I have with their mother will be done in his presence or in a fashion in which he will ALWAYS be aware of what is being said. (ie. copied on emails, etc.) Because I NEVER want to be in the situation in which the XW accuses me of saying/doing something that is disrespectful to her.

As far as discipline goes, one of the biggest mistakes I see in remarriages is the non-biological parent becomes the disciplinarian too early on, before any type of relationship is established with the children. So, our discussions about discipline have revolved around the decision that I would discipline his children IF they were either a) doing something which would cause harm/danger to themselves, or b) doing something that could cause harm/danger to someone else or something else. (If kid #1 is bashing kid #2 with a rock, something has to be done---that's NOT the time to say, "I'm calling your Dad.") It will work in reverse, as well. He will only discipline my children under the abovementioned conditions. House rules are house rules, but other areas of discipline are strictly the responsibility of the bio-parent.

I also think it's very important to be very clear about those issues that were points of contention in Marriage #1. We all have "sore spots", no matter how much we've worked through those things that concerned us from previous relationships. (In my marriage and in my FH's marriage, SF was an incredibly unfulfilled need, so we have been very open with each other about our sexual wants/needs and how those were not met in Marriage #1.)

So many people in my age group (late 30s-early 40s) are afraid to share their feelings, and often end up in relationships with people that they really like, but are afraid to share their feelings with. This leads to misinterpretation, and hurt feelings.

Additionally, it is important to remember that EVERY relationship takes work. We do not go into a new relationship/marriage knowing everything there is to know about our partner, there is a "learning curve." It is VITAL, I think, to remember that there IS this curve---we cannot expect everything to go smoothly all the time, but we can try very, very hard to be open and honest and giving.

Communication is the key.

Putting children first comes with boundaries of also placing the new marriage first.

My husbands ex thought he should go to her house to spend time with their children, and told their kids that.

My husband basically told his ex-wife and his children that isn't going to happen, though he loves his children very much, he will not come there and 'play house' with them leaving me (his new wife) home alone. And that he will continue to come get them and bring them to his new house and spend time with them here, and if they have a problem with that, oh well. He and their mother are divorced and with that comes certain consequences, and one of those consequences is them not spending time together acting like a family.

He explained to them he loves them and wants to spend time with them, but if they have a problem coming to his house then that will present a problem, because he will not force them to come over, and he won't go over there and play house.

His ex-wife sat there mouth open and silent <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> but it got the point across.

His children come over without complaint, and enjoy their time here, more so now, that they no longer think they have to choose which parent to make happy.

I'm trying to respond to everyone (kinda/sorta) at once, so forgive me in advance if I miss something... it won't be intentional.

When I speak of discipline, I mean the 'giving/action' part of it... not the part that comes before. Like I said about the snotty kleenex... (which, by the way, is STILL a problem with my H's 14 year old son)... this kid will blow his nose and tuck the tissue into the couch cushions (blech! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )... he says he does this at home and nobody cares (i.e. either Mom is his personal slave or Mom is taking care of it and he's not telling us - but I digress <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I will tell him to please pick up his tissue and put it in the trash. If I find it and he's still here, I will ask him to come get it and put it in the trash. I will help think of options, like if he has a cold, putting a trash can close by. But if this were a problem that warrented a disciplinary action, then that would be up to my H.

Actually, my sk's talk about this one time that stands out in their mind about how I would do things. His son took his sister's (my H's daughter) poster off the wall and ripped it into a million pieces. My H threw the poster away and said he'd buy another. HAD IT BEEN ME, I told them all... this kid would be sitting on the floor with said-million-pieces and scotch-taping that poster back together. I believe in the punishment fitting the crime.

They all talked about that poster for a year, no kidding. They couldn't believe I would have done that.

It's a really hard situation, to be sure. I totally believe that kids can get used to two sets of rules, so agreement with the other parent doesn't *need* to be negotiated. But wouldn't it be nice if both households used the same disciplinary tactics and the kids knew the limits and boundaries clearly... one set? But that rarely happens.

One other thing: Regarding if the children were doing something that could potentially bring harm or danger to themselves... this is one time I would throw everything I think and know out the window and just go with my gut. Yes, I would do whatever it takes to protect them.

And boy, yeah, every relationship DOES take work. I can remember saying to my ex, many times in fact, how I could never imagine *being* with someone else... not even to sleep. I was so used to him, you know?

It is an adjustment, and a BIG one, no matter what the circumstances. Even the little things can seem big... and the big things... like problem kids... loom very large.

Thank you cm, belonging and cindy for your responses. Very thoughtful discussion and I appreciate it so much!

Hi TR,

Oh yes, I understand what you're saying.

And, there were about 18 months where we both went there (to his prior marital home) and all of us (me and H, his ex and her then-H) spent holidays, etc. together.

What you're talking about is not putting the children first (by his going to his marital home without you and acting as a 'happy family' as you put it)...

... putting the children first in that case may mean setting boundaries that the children understand... as it sounds like he did.

However, my H and I have had to adjust our boundaries because of circumstances beyond our control and have been successful at it. There have been times when one or the other of us could not attend a function (usually because of travel costs, especially for me seeing my kids in Calif).

He's gone to functions (and/or appointments) with his ex... and I have gone to see my kids alone, and spent time with my ex. So, it's happened, and it isn't the always the most comfortable solution, but we're okay with it.

It really *is* for the kids, and I have to say that hearing my son say how much he appreciates that his dad and me can sit at the same dinner table and be friendly means to him... means the world to me (and his dad). We've worked very hard to maintain a good relationship -- WITHOUT crossing boundaries that would disrespect my marriage (he hasn't remarried, but always has a girlfriend).

Anyone ever hear of the CoMama's? It's an interesting take on co-parenting. Check this out and tell me what you think... do you think it can be done?

CoMama Main Page with description

I've met a couple of women who've tried it... and it *seems* like a nice thing...

Let me know...

Good thread.

Thank you, xpbuttercup! I think so, too...

Has anyone checked out that link?

I remember when I first heard of Co-Mama's... it was around the time of that Julia Roberts/Susan Sarandon movie "Step Mom" (I did NOT like that movie!)... ahem, anyway... the thought that a new wife could be a co-mother with the birth mother (or the other way around if you're the birth mom - with your ex's new wife), while truly lovely and it would seem best for the child, felt IMPOSSIBLE to me. Yeah, I can go to soccer games, yeah, I can do a birthday party... but to be right in the thick of it with the mom... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />... I can't imagine that. Can you? Can you see a scenerio where that could occur in a way that would benefit everyone? I don't know that most of us have the psychological wherewithall (is that one word like that? LOL) to handle it.

And dad's, while there isn't any Co-Dada's that I know of, how you feel if you co-coached your son's hockey team with your ex-w's new H??

Why should the children suffer the consequences? The divorce certainly was not their fault. Children should spend a significant amount of time with their father (or NC mother) without the father's new SO being present. Did the father actually mean that if the kids were not willing to come to his house, he would refuse to see them??? Spending time with his kids is far more important than any ridiculous "rules" about what it supposedly no longer appropriate. I see no problem with his seeing his kids at the marital home - the first wife is NOT an OW, and I think far too many second wives forget that. In many cases, the best thing for the children of divorced parents is the concept of "nesting," where the parents, not the kids, have to do the traveling from one household to the other.

Hi Nellie,

Nesting, eh? I can see the value, especially when kids are little... overnights wouldn't happen, of course, but for day visits (help with homework, hockey practice in the driveway)... yeah... I can see it working very well.

Did anyone check out Co-Mama's? I thought it was RADICAL when I first saw it, and am surprised someone hasn't jumped all over it.

I guess, judging by this thread, that the issue of children in a second marriage is the most difficult (or rewarding, depending on how you look at it)...

Is there anyone who DOESN'T have children, or doesn't have a bf or gf with children, who would like to join in?

Nobody has really delved into the money issues, either... his and hers or joint... mortgages... that kind of thing. What about living together first - yea or nay? Sex seems to be a topic on this forum... so I think I know how most everyone (who's answered LL's thread, for sure) feels about sex before marriage. Is it an issue at all for anyone? Are there things/topics we've missed in this thread? Anyone? Anything?

For a month or so after my H left, he saw the kids a couple of evenings a week, read them bedtime stories, and left after the younger ones were in bed. I would go out for the evening. He also stayed with them on some weekends. The kids were pleased with that arrangement - one of them said that they saw more of their father than when he was home (because he had been gone a lot seeing the OW). Except for the fact that it was kind of expensive for me to leave for the weekend, this worked very well - for everyone but the OW, apparently.

Fast forward six years - although he still takes the younger kids out to dinner, the OW has allowed them to visit their father at her home twice during the last 15 months. They "celebrate" Christmas with the kids at a restaurant - during which the OW spent most of the time berating and lecturing one of the kids, embarrassing them all by not even shutting up when the waitress came to take their order. She is the poster child for what not to do as a second wife.

In their relationship, the OW apparently controls the money. She found my H his job; she tells him how much (other than mandatory child support) he can spend on the children, and how he can spend it; she pays for the lawyer so he can get out of paying anything toward college as specified in the separation agreement.

I understand your disappointment and sadness, Nellie.

I have seen, maybe, two other dad's who completely abandoned their children to the extent that yours has, or worse... and in both cases it was BECAUSE the OW (who became wife) ran the show. In both cases, the men did something legally (i.e. gave up parental rights).

You would think that after the dust settled (I mean: when the whirlwind of emotion and/or chemical imbalance in the brain that comes with infidelity subsided) that your (ex)H would have realized he'd made some mistakes regarding the children and worked to rectify them.

As far as the finances, your situation is (I think - I hope) unique. Your (now-ex)H moved in with OW and quit his job, didn't he? He seems, truly, to have had a breakdown of some sort (which I know you believe happened, and I don't doubt it). Do you see any hint of the man you knew? I would have thought after several years he might have 'returned' to himself...

Nellie2,

It's not that they SHOULD, but they do, we all tend to suffer the consequences of someone elses choices on many occassions.

His comments were geared to their mother that she does not tell him where and when he can see his children. She was trying to control his relationship with them, and She had made previous comments that she could manipulate him and get him to do just what she wanted, and if she had to use the kids to do it she would, he was letting them all know that wasn't going to happen. When he stood his ground she backed down.

NB,

I glanced through the site, and I can see much of what it says concerning the ex-wife as playing a huge part in what we experienced, even more so when his ex-wife wasn't in a relationship.

Though I know I probably overstepped my bounds when I laid into her one day concerning some issues with their daughter
and how she was handling it. The daughter was cutting and getting into some other trouble and her mom would leave her unsupervised for hours on end. My husband had already suggested the kids come over here instead of being left alone, and she refused to do that.

I asked her one day what she's going to do when she comes home and finds her daughter dead because she cut herself to deep and nobody was home to help her? She told me "you'd find me on a bridge some where" I said "Excuse me? but No, I wouldn't, because YOU HAVE ANOTHER CHILD TO CONSIDER, and just because your having problems with one doesn't mean you ignore the other". I told her she's not her daughters friend, she's her mother, and she needs to start being her mom, because that's NOT MY ROLE.

Another time I asked her "If she and my husband were still married would she have a problem leaving the children at home with him?" She said "NO" I asked her then "whats the difference if they are here with him?"

I even explained to her that by her allowing them to come over here it gives her a much needed break so that she can relax and have some time to herself, and she would even be able to date more without worrying about if her kids are okay, because they are with their dad. Their being divorced didn't put him in the status of 'babysitter' he's still their dad, and even if I wasn't in the picture he would still be their dad, even though they happen to be divorced and it's time she accept that.

Since all of the above has transpired, she and I get along reasonably well, sometimes my husband thinks we get along to well, as sometimes she'll call to talk to me about things
(non-child related) but when it's about the kids I let her know she needs to talk to their dad about it and hand him the phone.

I think she's realized I have the best interest of her kids in mind, and even to a point her best interests so that she can learn to have some sort of life away from being mom.

She even bought me a Christmas present with a note attached saying "Thank-you for all you've done to help me this year."

So I guess you could say we co-mama....LOL