I haven't begun a post here for YEARS. But now that MB has this forum, I think it would be a really good idea to talk about what it takes to be a second wife or husband.

I have been married to my second H for 4.5 years. It has been a learning experience, for sure. I suspect that others who have been married more than once will have a lot to add to this discussion. My hope is that it helps to clarify what joys and tribulations come to those who want to marry again BEFORE you take the step.

Also, I suspect that moms and dads would like the second spouse to know a few things, too. All are welcome to respond, of course.

So, I'll begin:

If there are children (especially minors) from the prior marriage (both spouses), they always come first. That does not mean that you, as a second spouse, will be disrespected, ignored, or that your needs won't be met. It doesn't mean that a second spouse must live in poverty while the children of the first marriage live in wealth. I know this sometimes happens, but that's not what I'm talking about. In our case, we're struggling big-time, but it's because I can't seem to find a job in my field (so I'm working a temp part-time job)... it is NOT because my H pays child support. If we had more, his children would get more, because they are HIS responsibility as much as their mother's. My children are adults, and while I would LOVE to help them financially, I cannot. If I had it, they would have it, too, because they are MY responsibility as much as their father's. It will be this way as long as all of us live.

The other parent will be in your spouse's life as long as there are children. Being jealous or territorial will not help, and will in fact hurt. The first spouse is NOT an OW or OM and shouldn't be treated as such. I understand that there are sometimes SEVERE problems between the ex's, but that's not what I'm talking about. It is a general statement.

In my case, I still talk to my ex about once a month or so, mostly about our adult children but also we just catch up on stuff. Last year, he was a pall bearer at my grandmother's funeral. I would have it no other way, as he was very close to her for 20+ years. I am thankful for the good relationship we have. It does present problems at times, because he isn't remarried and occasionally trips down memory lane. But for the most part, I feel blessed by our continued 'friendship' (I don't know what else to call it).

What other things can you think of that you would put on a list if you were talking to someone considering becoming a second spouse? I know you guys are smart and willing to help... I think this would be a great opportunity to reach out and offer ideas and support.

uh....I agree with all you're saying except one huuge thing.

MY XH'S PRESENT WIFE...IS WILL ALWAYS AND SHALL FOREVER BE TO ME AND TO MY DS

THE
OTHER
WOMAN.

Oh, and by the way, I think being a second wife was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. I thought being a step-mom would come easy. I thought that balancing two/three families would be difficult, but not as heart-wrenchingly difficult as it has been.

With so many divorces, remarriages and blended families, there must be some ways to make a more gentle transition... but I don't know what that looks like... not in my situation. I'd like to hear from those who were able to do that, too.

peachy, you've got it backwards from what I'm saying... THE FIRST WIFE IS NEVER THE OW... that's what I meant.

And actually peachy, you would be a good one to discuss what you EXPECT from a potential mate, should you choose to marry again. <nudge, nudge>

I disagree. I believe that children need to see their parents in a successful marriage, even if the successful marriage is a second one. They will learn how to be successfully married from this example. If the marriage comes second, then the new family may fall apart. No kid needs to go through two or more divorces. A happy marriage is my #1 priority. That is why I am on MB. I owe it to my children.

We have blended well. Granted, Hubby's XW is not in the picture at all, so I don't have to deal with that relationship in any way. I do, however, share custody of my two children with my XH and his OWW (other woman wife -- our marriage ended over multiple affairs; he married #4... of 5). The relationship that Hubby and I share with XH and his OWW is a "professional" one.

There are people I work with that I don't like or respect on a personal level, but we still do good work together. This is how I treat my shared parenting role, too.

My kids have four parents. We see each other several times per week as we are passing the kids off and get together to meet -- veiled in a social gathering -- about parenting decisions.

Holding anger over the breakup of your marriage and XS's re-marriage to OW/OM does two things. #1--Hubby told me it made him feel that I really wanted XH back instead of him and #2--it interferes with the business of raising happy, healthy kids.


Mrs. W8ing

Hi NB!

You didn't *nudge* me, but I'm going to add my 2 cents worth here, anyways. I can't comment as a parent because I have no children but I was married for 8.5 years and I am remarried.

My first H isn't a HUGE part of my life now, but we see each other about 4 or 5 times a year. We're never alone together (although considering that he's gay, it wouldn't be a problem if we were) and my current H isn't at all jealous of him.

Although my marriage couldn't have been saved, I think many people who are involved in my everyday life forget that I loved my ex-H, regardless of the revelation of his homosexuality during the later stages of our marriage. I find that my parents and close friends tend to make fun of my ex-H and say TERRIBLE things about him. They don't realize that I'm hurt by these comments because to me, my ex-H wasn't a bad man. Even when we decided to separate, I couldn't say that I didn't love him. It was the equivalent of loving someone you could never have--I had to get over the feeling that our marriage was OVER and I didn't have the benefit of HATING him, like most people....

As far as my new marriage is concerned, I'm happy to say that I fully healed myself before I married again. I didn't bring ANY of the issues of my first marriage to this one and I think our relationship is stronger because of that. You can imagine the sexual problems I had with my ex-H, not knowing that he was gay for almost 8 years. I was constantly in a state of confusion, trying to change myself and wondering why he wasn't attracted to me. I had to spend a lot of money on therapy, but because of the therapy I had, my current Husband doesn't have to deal with any self-esteem issues on my part.

I view my new marriage as a re-birth. I seldom compare my Husbands because one of them couldn't help that he was gay and the other doesn't deserved to be compared, just because I happened to be married before. It just isn't fair to either one of them. I consider my marriage something beautiful and I'm glad I met someone who meets my needs so fully....there's no need to dwell on the past and confirm that I'm happier NOW....

It's so important to slow down when you separate and concentrate on yourself. I was the ONLY one of my friends who was separated and I can tell you that I was alienated by them, but that didn't stop me from enjoying my single life. I really took the time to think about my situation and decide how I would improve on a second marriage (MB REALLY helped me in that sense). I've heard of people who try to re-live their youth after a separation--I did none of that. I married because I wasn't interested in partying any longer--being separated didn't change that dynamic. I went on with my daily life and proved to myself that I could function with or without a partner.

NB--you have some great points in your post. When a couple has children, it may seen unfair that they have a forever tie to their ex, but that's the unfortunate reality of the situation. As far as I'm concerned, making that situation WORSE by using the children as bargaining tools will only blow up in your face later. I saw this happen with my Aunt...by the time her children were teenagers, they were openly telling her to STOP running down their Father. It's pretty SAD when your children have the intelligence to know your behaviour is counter-productive.

I think if more people understood the importance of the points that you've made, we'd have less strife in blended families and in second marriages. It takes a VERY solid person to accept a blended family and make it work--that can only happen if the person is aware of the challenge that lies ahead...

These are both important points. I'll address them from the point of sharing custody, since that's my scenario.

The fact that my XH had multiple affairs is not my children's fault. They love him. He is a pretty good dad. Always was. XH dad is not a bad man. (He was a very bad husband to me.) I stand up for him when my family, Hubby or friends run him down behind his back ESPECIALLY if there is any chance they'll say those things in front of our kids.

Ops, it all disappeared <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> & I don't want to re-write. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I'll just say I'm looking forward to finding out how people have handled remarriage & how the kids have impacted the marriage.

Let me say it this way, and see if we can come to an agreement (tho it isn't necessary)... a hypothetical example: If my H's son needed braces and my H wanted to give $1,000 towards it but I didn't want him to do that, I would expect my H to make a decision that will benefit the child, not me. I know a POJA should be used, but say we can't come to an agreement. The needs of the child come first.

I agree that strong marriages build strong families - totally. I also agree that children need that foundation. And believe me, when I posted here before, one of the reasons I felt really uncomfortable was because I believed exactly as you do and got blasted quite nicely for my beliefs. I have since come to realize that a strong marriage can be built WHILE putting the children first. Maybe it's a semantics thing... because I am trying to hold the "marriage and family" as a whole.


No argument there.


That's WONDERFUL.


TOTALLY understandable.

I'll get to your other post in a minute... I'm going down the responses and responding. Thank you so much for your thoughtful message.

Hi back atcha, aeri!


Wow. You know, I could say many of the same things about my ex-H, though he isn't gay. I loved him when we divorced, he isn't a bad man, and my family (though they are kind and invite him to family gatherings, etc.) do say some things that are... not-so-nice, sometimes.

Loving someone you can't have... also rings true. I could have my ex, but so did a few other women.

I am not making light of your situation... which would be HEARTWRENCHING. Obviously, it was!


Well, it's absolutely no secret that I did the opposite. Bad me. I joke, but it's something I've been dealing with for years, personally and in therapy.

Good for YOU, aeri!


I can also say many of these same things. I don't compare my first and second H because there is no comparison. They are both good men, but that's about the only thing they have in common (besides, as it turns out, a problem taking out the trash - is that all men? LOL).

I have dwelled in the past, which is not the topic of this thread, but it's been my reality. Probably BECAUSE of my jumping in too quickly.


Yes, wise words.


Very true. Both my H and me go to GREAT lengths to NEVER EVER put down the other parent, though truthfully, when kids are adults like mine, they tend to put them down for you <tiny evil grin>. But my H's kids never hear anything bad about their mother ever, from either one of us. Dang, it's their MOTHER. My mother drives me crazy, but if you say something about her, I'm right there with my claws out.

I think if more people understood the importance of the
Thank you, aeri, and it's very nice to 'see' you!

That's exactly what I meant on my reply to aeri, also. Sheesh, my kids love me and I'm flawed up one side and down the other... but I love them completely and they know it. And their dad is pretty much in the same boat. My kids blame him for the end of our marriage and have said many times they understand why we divorced. But again, they're older, and were older when we had our worst problems, so they saw a lot (dare I say: TOO MUCH). And I was always very honest about what was going on (again, sometimes too much so)... still, they respected that.

Just a little 'hello' then, nams, and I'm sorry about your lost post. I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

Thank you for dropping by... I hope to learn some new things, too!

I'm just going to talk to myself here, maybe formulating some thoughts... maybe for your entertainment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What about discipline? I believe that the step-parent, especially the step-parent in a non-custodial role, should NEVER initiate discipline.

That's not to say that I don't ask my H's children to put their dishes in the sink, throw away snotty kleenex, or make their beds. I do that. But if they don't do what I ask, it's up to DAD ALONE to determine the next course of action, if there is any.

I believe they the step-parent can be a team member with their spouse (the parent) to maintain consistency in the disciplinary action that has been meted out. Therefore, I can say, when his son has been sent to his room and comes out before the time alloted by dad (say, if while H is in the bathroom and isn't there to say it himself)... I can say... "Your father said until 2. Go back to your room, please." If he doesn't, I wait for dad to determine the next move.

Agree?

I am truly trying to see how others feel about the role of a second spouse, but I see that children are an important part of what I'm asking. If the potential partner doesn't have children, I would think it would be sooooooooo much more difficult. If the partner/spouse does have children and does things totally the opposite of what you do (say, uses time-outs when you believe in corporal punishment)... what then? How do you POJA that?

"Well, it's absolutely no secret that I did the opposite. Bad me. I joke, but it's something I've been dealing with for years, personally and in therapy. "

I was wondering if you would be willing to share this with me? You can email me at: jolenti@yahoo.com

I envision very much the same scenario you've talked about with discipline.

I imagine my partner & I will have discussed the appraoch we will take. This we will discuss with the kids. My kids, I deliver the discipline, his kids he does. But situations do arise where I or he will need to speak up. Then the partner would simply restate the rules letting the child know they've seen the infraction but that the mother/father will deal with it.

There will likely be house rules that will be clear to all & either partner will be able to ask any child to do their share. Again, if my kids break the rules I discipline, his he does.

I'm guessing though that even the best of rules & the best of intentions get waylaid when big stuff surfaces.

Hi Immovingon,


Actually, it really is pretty well-documented publicly, and I'd be happy to go find some threads, if you'd like to read about it.

Are you asking for a private converstation to maintain your privacy? If so, I understand and would only ask if you're male or female (sorry, it's taking time to get to know people around here again) because I don't talk to men off the board. If it's to protect me that you're asking, no worries... my life is an open book.

I will say, in advance of any conversation (either here or on email) that I am a poster-child for what NOT to do.

If you have any questions in particular, ask away... I'm happy to answer and if something crosses a personal boundary, I'll let you know. Deal?


Good lord, YES. We've had some of those things occur, too. Very, very difficult situations.

I will say though, that while I always strive to be united with my H, occasionally I will **suggest** (wink) he take a second look at a choice if I disagree... it's only happened a couple of times and when I did it, it was quietly, and away from the kids. I became sd's hero for a weekend when I convinced dad to let her do something he'd originally said 'no' to (going to a show with her cousin while she was here for the weekend - she's 17)... he ended up changing his mind, and everyone was happy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NB,

I'm a 39 yo female, divorced with children and would like to discuss in private.

Thanks

nb, and others,
Are there other things, in addition to "kids" issues that you have noticed, or we can discuss? These are great issues though, in case I get involved with another Dad. But I don't have kids, and it's probably better that I stay away from Dads. I had a 2-yr relationship with a Dad with 2 teens, and I learned a LOT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Like... what I hope and picture for my second marriage, is acceptance for who we are, without trying to change each other. Teamwork, while allowing each other to be their own individuals. We definitely had a problem with that in our 1st marriage. It's something I've tried to practice in my dating. Have you found that in your current marriage? Acceptance? Teamwork?

For my second partner I'm looking for a divorced or widowed dad. I figure if he's learned from the first marriage we're ahead of the game. Having kids is important because he understands the sacrifice parents need to make & all the other stuff that comes along with being a parent.

We're more likely to be on the same page than someone with completely experiences.

Faith ~ we can talk about ANYTHING to do with being a second...

Yes, a HUGE difference with regard to acceptance. Part of it really might be about maturity and realizing we can change nobody but ourselves (that's what my therapist tells me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) I used to be a HUGE control freak... now I'm still controlling, but it isn't my lifes work, and it's not the huge deal it was when I was younger. Plus, I really *like* who my H is, and he likes who I am... which is very different from my first marriage (in the later years, especially).

In my second marriage, it's a totally different situation than in my first marriage, ESPECIALLY in regard to communication. That's siimply because my second H is a big talker, like me, and my first H was a tortured soul wrapped in a dark poet. I liked that about him (of course) in the beginning, but it got really... um... sad... almost pathetic, as the years went on. He posted here for awhile back in 1999-2000 and people had trouble reading what he wrote... he really is a poetic, kind of flowery writer... and he talked the same way. Sometimes I seriously didn't know what the heck he meant when he talked, and I don't think I'm dense. He was intelligent, but it didn't come out in his speech (I always tried to compensate for that with him... spoke *for* him when others didn't understand... but see, that's a controlling action, isn't it?)

The teamwork aspect was non-existent in my first marriage. I did everything that had to do with the kids... homework, school meetings, doc, ortho, psych... you name it, I did it. I didn't work as hard (physcially) as my H. He was (is) a workaholic, and though I'm not lazy, I prefer mind-work to body-work. My H now nows how to RELAX, and it's relaxing TO ME. That sets a nice tone to begin the process of making decisions, you know?

nams, I agree that it's best )especially if you have small children) to have a man who's been a father. Who else could understand the struggles we have as parents?

Immovingon -- you have mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I knew that if I were to get married again, I would not want to deal with the EX wife or step kids. I have heard my share of horror stories about this from friends and families, I rather not go there. I already have 5 children, and that is enough for me. :-)

In my second marriage, I want a man who I can respect, I want your John Wayne type of man. I want us to be best friends, and for us to be great together, as in a team. I want to make sure that we share the same morals, values, and beliefs.

I have found him, but taking my time, and just enjoying the moment for now.

That is key for me.....I dated a never married, no kids bachelor in his 40's and while it was fun and wild and exciting and a complete mess, I KNEW he was not the one for me.....he was too set in his ways (as in HIS way was the right way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />), and just had no perspective of the time and energy and sacrifice involved when you have children. He'd only ever been responsible for himself, things were exactly how he wanted them, when he wanted them.....he was exhausting to be around sometimes even though he saw himself as the most laid back, easy going of guys...pfft, yeah right....

I learned ALOT from that relationship!

er, did I get off topic? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

devastated,

Nope, you didn't go off topic, and even if you had, everyone is welcome to share anything... sometimes the BEST discussions come from the little rabbit trails we take...

Immovingon,

It is hard to deal with all the baggage, and it's good that you know YOUR boundaries.

Honestly, I would have felt the same way, because haven't we ALL heard the horror stories? Who hasn't seen The First Wives Club (I thought it was a little too man-bashing, myself)... but it was humorous. And yep, don't we all know *someone* who's struggled with ex's and stepkids?

One thing I keep in mind is that *I'm* a first wife, too. I'm someone's ex. I hope I never scare the snot out of some poor unsuspecting possible-wife for my ex-H (though I'd love to have a chat with her before the nuptuals <evil grin>)... but she better treat my kids right... that's ALL I know (though my kids, understandably, can fend for themselves with daddy's girlfriends, and they do!)

And stepmums get a bum rap, too. Go to fairy tales... Cinderalla... wicked stepmum... c'mon... LOL.

It's something to think about BEFORE you do it, which is why I began this thread. Just to be clear, I DIDN'T. My whole life has been one learning experience after another, and usually after I get proverbally smacked in the head.

Can we go back to the discipline topic for a minute?

I used to agree that step-parents should not discipline, I guess mainly because of what I'd read.

Now I"m involved with a man and we have 4 kids full time between us. We both have disciplined each other's kids. I guess I'm not sure how it's different from a babysitter disciplining, or even onother mother who's in charge of my kids for the day. Break the rules, face the consequences. What difference does it make who enforces it?

Or are you talking bigger issues? Can we clarify that?

My BF and I are not talking M at this point, but we will have parenting and discipline issues if it goes that directions, as my kids are angels and his are terrors, (HAHA) but in actuality we do have VERY different discipline techniques.

thanks!

cm

Maybe I should have put this on the "blending families" thread???

cm

It isn't (only) semantics, it is the essence... at least, I agree with 'children first'... if children are 'neglected' while we 'build a strong 2nd marriage', it'll come as boomerang and no good from it either.

Good point.
However, that'd be a very difficult for me, if I ever decide to remarry...
My ratio says - yes, disciplining in those little daily things, it's inevitable, but never major ones (without agreement/permission with/by the parent).
Mom in me (who adores her child, sometimes I think too much) thinks - oh, no...
I mean, I couldn't stand anyone disciplining my son IF that one doesn't have the same methods as me! Period.
(Even if he has... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)
I.e., my parenthing is 'positive parenthing techniques', and I cannot imagine that anyone would be allowed to use 'corporal punishment', or even just kritisize my child (putting him down, verbally, e.g.).
But probably it has all different dimension once you love someone and try to compromise and work on your R/M...
From this perspective, now, that would be deal breaker number one.
Re: his children, if any... I would try to be good as much as possible, as I'm good for my own child.
And disciplining them... I'd leave it to him... and any issue will tell him not them...


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good topic.

I think the key to a successful second marriage is communication, communication, communication.

When I got married, I had the mistaken impression that it was going to be a modern-day "Leave It To Beaver" marriage...that somehow, some way, all of those problems that came up that involved things we didn't discuss before marriage would be worked out in 30 minutes (less time for commercials) and everyone would live happily ever after.

My XH was divorced, and I never really asked WHY? He was 11 yrs old than I am, and had no children from marriage #1. He knew I wanted children. (I was 29 when we met, and my biological clock was going off about every 15 minutes or so.) He SAID he wanted children, but then blamed me for ruining his life when I got pregnant with child #1 (now 7.)There were TONS of other issues, as well, but there's really no need to innumerate them here...the point is, the marriage failed.

I am now involved with someone and we are talking very seriously about marriage, blending our two families, etc.

But neither of us wants to make the same horrible mistakes we made the first time around.

As far as children go, I have told him that I realize that I am not, nor can I ever be, their "mother." I can be, and plan to be the woman that LOVES their father, totally and completely. It's important for children to see a successful, loving marriage.

I cannot replace their mother, nor do I intend to. Further, I have told him that any communications I have with their mother will be done in his presence or in a fashion in which he will ALWAYS be aware of what is being said. (ie. copied on emails, etc.) Because I NEVER want to be in the situation in which the XW accuses me of saying/doing something that is disrespectful to her.

As far as discipline goes, one of the biggest mistakes I see in remarriages is the non-biological parent becomes the disciplinarian too early on, before any type of relationship is established with the children. So, our discussions about discipline have revolved around the decision that I would discipline his children IF they were either a) doing something which would cause harm/danger to themselves, or b) doing something that could cause harm/danger to someone else or something else. (If kid #1 is bashing kid #2 with a rock, something has to be done---that's NOT the time to say, "I'm calling your Dad.") It will work in reverse, as well. He will only discipline my children under the abovementioned conditions. House rules are house rules, but other areas of discipline are strictly the responsibility of the bio-parent.

I also think it's very important to be very clear about those issues that were points of contention in Marriage #1. We all have "sore spots", no matter how much we've worked through those things that concerned us from previous relationships. (In my marriage and in my FH's marriage, SF was an incredibly unfulfilled need, so we have been very open with each other about our sexual wants/needs and how those were not met in Marriage #1.)

So many people in my age group (late 30s-early 40s) are afraid to share their feelings, and often end up in relationships with people that they really like, but are afraid to share their feelings with. This leads to misinterpretation, and hurt feelings.

Additionally, it is important to remember that EVERY relationship takes work. We do not go into a new relationship/marriage knowing everything there is to know about our partner, there is a "learning curve." It is VITAL, I think, to remember that there IS this curve---we cannot expect everything to go smoothly all the time, but we can try very, very hard to be open and honest and giving.

Communication is the key.

Putting children first comes with boundaries of also placing the new marriage first.

My husbands ex thought he should go to her house to spend time with their children, and told their kids that.

My husband basically told his ex-wife and his children that isn't going to happen, though he loves his children very much, he will not come there and 'play house' with them leaving me (his new wife) home alone. And that he will continue to come get them and bring them to his new house and spend time with them here, and if they have a problem with that, oh well. He and their mother are divorced and with that comes certain consequences, and one of those consequences is them not spending time together acting like a family.

He explained to them he loves them and wants to spend time with them, but if they have a problem coming to his house then that will present a problem, because he will not force them to come over, and he won't go over there and play house.

His ex-wife sat there mouth open and silent <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> but it got the point across.

His children come over without complaint, and enjoy their time here, more so now, that they no longer think they have to choose which parent to make happy.

I'm trying to respond to everyone (kinda/sorta) at once, so forgive me in advance if I miss something... it won't be intentional.

When I speak of discipline, I mean the 'giving/action' part of it... not the part that comes before. Like I said about the snotty kleenex... (which, by the way, is STILL a problem with my H's 14 year old son)... this kid will blow his nose and tuck the tissue into the couch cushions (blech! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )... he says he does this at home and nobody cares (i.e. either Mom is his personal slave or Mom is taking care of it and he's not telling us - but I digress <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I will tell him to please pick up his tissue and put it in the trash. If I find it and he's still here, I will ask him to come get it and put it in the trash. I will help think of options, like if he has a cold, putting a trash can close by. But if this were a problem that warrented a disciplinary action, then that would be up to my H.

Actually, my sk's talk about this one time that stands out in their mind about how I would do things. His son took his sister's (my H's daughter) poster off the wall and ripped it into a million pieces. My H threw the poster away and said he'd buy another. HAD IT BEEN ME, I told them all... this kid would be sitting on the floor with said-million-pieces and scotch-taping that poster back together. I believe in the punishment fitting the crime.

They all talked about that poster for a year, no kidding. They couldn't believe I would have done that.

It's a really hard situation, to be sure. I totally believe that kids can get used to two sets of rules, so agreement with the other parent doesn't *need* to be negotiated. But wouldn't it be nice if both households used the same disciplinary tactics and the kids knew the limits and boundaries clearly... one set? But that rarely happens.

One other thing: Regarding if the children were doing something that could potentially bring harm or danger to themselves... this is one time I would throw everything I think and know out the window and just go with my gut. Yes, I would do whatever it takes to protect them.

And boy, yeah, every relationship DOES take work. I can remember saying to my ex, many times in fact, how I could never imagine *being* with someone else... not even to sleep. I was so used to him, you know?

It is an adjustment, and a BIG one, no matter what the circumstances. Even the little things can seem big... and the big things... like problem kids... loom very large.

Thank you cm, belonging and cindy for your responses. Very thoughtful discussion and I appreciate it so much!

Hi TR,

Oh yes, I understand what you're saying.

And, there were about 18 months where we both went there (to his prior marital home) and all of us (me and H, his ex and her then-H) spent holidays, etc. together.

What you're talking about is not putting the children first (by his going to his marital home without you and acting as a 'happy family' as you put it)...

... putting the children first in that case may mean setting boundaries that the children understand... as it sounds like he did.

However, my H and I have had to adjust our boundaries because of circumstances beyond our control and have been successful at it. There have been times when one or the other of us could not attend a function (usually because of travel costs, especially for me seeing my kids in Calif).

He's gone to functions (and/or appointments) with his ex... and I have gone to see my kids alone, and spent time with my ex. So, it's happened, and it isn't the always the most comfortable solution, but we're okay with it.

It really *is* for the kids, and I have to say that hearing my son say how much he appreciates that his dad and me can sit at the same dinner table and be friendly means to him... means the world to me (and his dad). We've worked very hard to maintain a good relationship -- WITHOUT crossing boundaries that would disrespect my marriage (he hasn't remarried, but always has a girlfriend).

Anyone ever hear of the CoMama's? It's an interesting take on co-parenting. Check this out and tell me what you think... do you think it can be done?

CoMama Main Page with description

I've met a couple of women who've tried it... and it *seems* like a nice thing...

Let me know...

Good thread.

Thank you, xpbuttercup! I think so, too...

Has anyone checked out that link?

I remember when I first heard of Co-Mama's... it was around the time of that Julia Roberts/Susan Sarandon movie "Step Mom" (I did NOT like that movie!)... ahem, anyway... the thought that a new wife could be a co-mother with the birth mother (or the other way around if you're the birth mom - with your ex's new wife), while truly lovely and it would seem best for the child, felt IMPOSSIBLE to me. Yeah, I can go to soccer games, yeah, I can do a birthday party... but to be right in the thick of it with the mom... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />... I can't imagine that. Can you? Can you see a scenerio where that could occur in a way that would benefit everyone? I don't know that most of us have the psychological wherewithall (is that one word like that? LOL) to handle it.

And dad's, while there isn't any Co-Dada's that I know of, how you feel if you co-coached your son's hockey team with your ex-w's new H??

Why should the children suffer the consequences? The divorce certainly was not their fault. Children should spend a significant amount of time with their father (or NC mother) without the father's new SO being present. Did the father actually mean that if the kids were not willing to come to his house, he would refuse to see them??? Spending time with his kids is far more important than any ridiculous "rules" about what it supposedly no longer appropriate. I see no problem with his seeing his kids at the marital home - the first wife is NOT an OW, and I think far too many second wives forget that. In many cases, the best thing for the children of divorced parents is the concept of "nesting," where the parents, not the kids, have to do the traveling from one household to the other.

Hi Nellie,

Nesting, eh? I can see the value, especially when kids are little... overnights wouldn't happen, of course, but for day visits (help with homework, hockey practice in the driveway)... yeah... I can see it working very well.

Did anyone check out Co-Mama's? I thought it was RADICAL when I first saw it, and am surprised someone hasn't jumped all over it.

I guess, judging by this thread, that the issue of children in a second marriage is the most difficult (or rewarding, depending on how you look at it)...

Is there anyone who DOESN'T have children, or doesn't have a bf or gf with children, who would like to join in?

Nobody has really delved into the money issues, either... his and hers or joint... mortgages... that kind of thing. What about living together first - yea or nay? Sex seems to be a topic on this forum... so I think I know how most everyone (who's answered LL's thread, for sure) feels about sex before marriage. Is it an issue at all for anyone? Are there things/topics we've missed in this thread? Anyone? Anything?

For a month or so after my H left, he saw the kids a couple of evenings a week, read them bedtime stories, and left after the younger ones were in bed. I would go out for the evening. He also stayed with them on some weekends. The kids were pleased with that arrangement - one of them said that they saw more of their father than when he was home (because he had been gone a lot seeing the OW). Except for the fact that it was kind of expensive for me to leave for the weekend, this worked very well - for everyone but the OW, apparently.

Fast forward six years - although he still takes the younger kids out to dinner, the OW has allowed them to visit their father at her home twice during the last 15 months. They "celebrate" Christmas with the kids at a restaurant - during which the OW spent most of the time berating and lecturing one of the kids, embarrassing them all by not even shutting up when the waitress came to take their order. She is the poster child for what not to do as a second wife.

In their relationship, the OW apparently controls the money. She found my H his job; she tells him how much (other than mandatory child support) he can spend on the children, and how he can spend it; she pays for the lawyer so he can get out of paying anything toward college as specified in the separation agreement.

I understand your disappointment and sadness, Nellie.

I have seen, maybe, two other dad's who completely abandoned their children to the extent that yours has, or worse... and in both cases it was BECAUSE the OW (who became wife) ran the show. In both cases, the men did something legally (i.e. gave up parental rights).

You would think that after the dust settled (I mean: when the whirlwind of emotion and/or chemical imbalance in the brain that comes with infidelity subsided) that your (ex)H would have realized he'd made some mistakes regarding the children and worked to rectify them.

As far as the finances, your situation is (I think - I hope) unique. Your (now-ex)H moved in with OW and quit his job, didn't he? He seems, truly, to have had a breakdown of some sort (which I know you believe happened, and I don't doubt it). Do you see any hint of the man you knew? I would have thought after several years he might have 'returned' to himself...

Nellie2,

It's not that they SHOULD, but they do, we all tend to suffer the consequences of someone elses choices on many occassions.

His comments were geared to their mother that she does not tell him where and when he can see his children. She was trying to control his relationship with them, and She had made previous comments that she could manipulate him and get him to do just what she wanted, and if she had to use the kids to do it she would, he was letting them all know that wasn't going to happen. When he stood his ground she backed down.

NB,

I glanced through the site, and I can see much of what it says concerning the ex-wife as playing a huge part in what we experienced, even more so when his ex-wife wasn't in a relationship.

Though I know I probably overstepped my bounds when I laid into her one day concerning some issues with their daughter
and how she was handling it. The daughter was cutting and getting into some other trouble and her mom would leave her unsupervised for hours on end. My husband had already suggested the kids come over here instead of being left alone, and she refused to do that.

I asked her one day what she's going to do when she comes home and finds her daughter dead because she cut herself to deep and nobody was home to help her? She told me "you'd find me on a bridge some where" I said "Excuse me? but No, I wouldn't, because YOU HAVE ANOTHER CHILD TO CONSIDER, and just because your having problems with one doesn't mean you ignore the other". I told her she's not her daughters friend, she's her mother, and she needs to start being her mom, because that's NOT MY ROLE.

Another time I asked her "If she and my husband were still married would she have a problem leaving the children at home with him?" She said "NO" I asked her then "whats the difference if they are here with him?"

I even explained to her that by her allowing them to come over here it gives her a much needed break so that she can relax and have some time to herself, and she would even be able to date more without worrying about if her kids are okay, because they are with their dad. Their being divorced didn't put him in the status of 'babysitter' he's still their dad, and even if I wasn't in the picture he would still be their dad, even though they happen to be divorced and it's time she accept that.

Since all of the above has transpired, she and I get along reasonably well, sometimes my husband thinks we get along to well, as sometimes she'll call to talk to me about things
(non-child related) but when it's about the kids I let her know she needs to talk to their dad about it and hand him the phone.

I think she's realized I have the best interest of her kids in mind, and even to a point her best interests so that she can learn to have some sort of life away from being mom.

She even bought me a Christmas present with a note attached saying "Thank-you for all you've done to help me this year."

So I guess you could say we co-mama....LOL

NB,

He actually didn't quit - he was laid off, and remained unemployed for two and a half years, during some of which time the unemployment rate in his field was close to zero. It was obvious something was really wrong when he insisted that he was not qualified to do anything that paid more than minimum wage, which was certainly not the case, since he has a college degree and numerous graduate credits, not to mention years of experience and talents in several areas. No, I don't see any sign of the man I once knew - if anything, I think he has gotten worse over the years. His relationship with the children has deteriorated considerably. I think he is very unhappy about that, but it is easier just to ignore the children than to think about it. When I was worried about something when we were together, he used to tell me, "Just don't think about it," and apparently he has no trouble doing just that.

Hi TR, Hi Nellie,

Thank you both for your responses...

TR,

I don't know what to say to what you've written. I know that every situation is unique, and that we all struggle with varying difficulties... children with problems is especially heartwrenching, and I speak from experience on that one.

Especially in the beginning of the marriage, it's (unfortunately) trying out different fits to see which works best... and in the case of a second marriage in particular, it's all new ground to cover. I remember wondering these kinds of things:

Do I hug sk's? Should I? Do I ask if I can hug? (By the way, I believe you NEVER touch a child without permission)

What do they call me? (My name, of course! LOL)

Do I say they're my sk's or that they're my H's children? Does it matter?

Do I offer to do things Mom would do -- cut hair, put hair in braids, mend hole in jammies?

Do I help with homework? What if I'm wrong (which in math, is sure to happen!)?

Am I on the emergency card for schools? When the school calls, which they have occasionally, do I talk with sk's and see if they're okay? Do I forward message to dad at work? Do I let Mom handle it?

And not relating to the children, I had something interesting happen yesterday that fits nicely here... a family gathering with H's family... met one great-uncle who hadn't seen my H for over 10 years... said he'd been at our wedding. Of course he meant my H and his first W's wedding. Was I uncomfortable? A tad. But that's the kind of thing you don't think about... until it happens.

Lots of questions... things I only learned about AFTER I became a second wife.

Nellie,

Okay, thanks for explaining.

I understand denial. I call it my box. I put it under the bed, metaphorically, when I can't deal. I think that's pretty common, though very unhealthy and unhelpful.

I'm sorry things aren't getting better.

Here is what I do-

I called all of my children- sk's included "my children" in conversation. At times I may reference to my husband, "My two" when I'm talking about who goes where when.

I let him deal with his exwife- who is always nice to my face when he's around but can't stand me if he's not around (she left him so it doesn't make sense)

I deal with my exhusband when it comes to issues with the kids.

I prefer to be the one that does dr's appts, haircuts etc. If I can't do it then I prefer my exhusband does it and doesn't leave it to the gf.

I think about how I want to be treated as the bio mom and I try to treat his exwife like that. I even served her birthday cake and ice cream at his birthday party because she has two smaller kids and her hands were full.

If my SS is uncomfortable giving me a hug or talking to me on the phone, I don't push it.

I encourage my kids to like their dad's gf. As long as she is good to them there will be no issues with me, providing she doesn't overstep her bounds. A couple of weeks ago she had too much trimmed off my daughter's hair and I called their dad and explained that was not her role. I made myself pretty clear I think.

I have no problem with him bringing his GF to recitals, games etc and I feel free to bring my husband to those things.

As far as finances- we have joint accounts. His house became my house when we married, just like his debts became mine. That's part of being married to me. He carries life insurance on him for his son, I carry some on me for my children, and we both carry some on each other for the other spouse.

coachswife,

You sound like you have your head on straight, that you have handled things maturely and with grace. Good for you!

So, what do you attribute this to? Do you think it was something inside you all along? Did you make an effort towards harmony?

Great post, and thank you for sharing!

Well, I'd like to take the credit for being naturally levelheaded but since I was the one who wanted the divorce all of that comes much easier to me than it would to someone whose spouse has left them for the OW!

I wanted to do the best thing for my children. Period. To me that means I separate what a jerk he was to me and focus only on the fact that he is a good father. I offered up joint custody, even though since then I've come to regret it once or twice. The other day my son said, "I know why you and dad got a divorce" and I said, "Why?" He said, "Because he's mean and yells alot" So, even though alot of people would have taken the chance to leave that mark in his mind- especially concerning how he's said he is going to talk about me to them when they are older, I explained that neither of us were perfect, we both made mistakes and that was not the reason we divorced. I also told him that when he was older and had adult relationships he would see just how hard they are to maintain over a long period of time.

It brings to mind to me at times the two women fighting over the baby- and it is said to cut the baby in half and the true mother says, "No, give it to her" If it is going to affect them negatively or hurt them further then I don't want to do it- I have enough guilt over leaving their father period, much less inflicting more damage.

As far as being nice to my husbands exwife? Well, I take pity on her actually. She had it made when she was married to my H- he's a good husband, romantic, loving, selfless. It just boils down to the fact that she didn't love him like she should have. Since I left my first husband, I can relate to how she felt a bit. Don't condone her tactics or the way she tries to manipulate his parents- which could be a whole other topic- but I can understand her a bit. Now she is remarried to the OM- and was pregnant by him before she divorced my H. They have two small children in addition to SS, money is TIGHT, whereas it wasn't when she was married to my H. I think the grass is just not as green as she thought it would be. Also, I was raised by a woman alot like her, so her manipulation tactics and the fact that she really thinks she's smarter than the rest of us makes me laugh inside. For instance, she had my H depositing her child support check for her. Now, why couldn't she go to the bank like everyone else?? If he didn't deposit it, she asked his mother to do it. Can you imagine the gall? So, to prevent all of that I told him that we should mail it and she could go to the bank on her lunch break just like everyone else has to do. I actually laugh at some of the stuff she does, because it doesn't bother me at all. I'm going to be nice to her as SS mom and as long as she's nice to me we'll get along fine.

When we first met, she came to pick up some playground equipment my H had in the yard he said she could have FOR HER NEW KID! We were dating. She ignored me and wasn't going to speak to me. I was like, "I'll be darned if she's going to ignore me in what's going to be my driveway" and I marched up and MADE her speak to me and stuck my hand out until she shook it. She wouldn't make eye contact but I think I got my point across and if nothing she respects me.

It's been very very hard to be nice to my exhusband. Especially in the beginning when I would get all these e mails from him cussing and ranting and raving. He even had the nerve to e mail me before I married my H- who wasn't the reason we split up- and tell me my marriage had a 25% chance of making it! I would get these e mails or he would do something and it would be all I could do not to write back a terrible reply. But, I knew that I could keep all of that and use it in court if we had to go back. I didn't want him to have ANYTHING on me. So, every one of my replies is "We need to try and co parent these children effectively. We are divorced, let's just try to be good parents" you get the picture. Now, I have all these irrational e mails from him- and he has nothing but level headed replies from me!

See, I'm not just another pretty face! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Coachswife,

Thanks for another thoughtful response! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have some thoughts myself about what you've written, but I don't have the time to write them out. I will be back later (tonight or tomorrow morning), okay?

Have a great day!!

Cool! That's great.

I was joking with a friend the other day about my husband's exwife's appearance. When we see her, she is in sweats with her hair all over the place and no makeup. When I see my exhusband and his gf I make it a point to be turned out to the T. I thought it was just a rule. We joked that husband's EXW just didn't know the rules which is "I will always be better turned out than my exhusbands new wife or GF!" HA!

Hi all. I know there are a lot of consistant people here on the forums, so I'd like to introduce myself a little. I'm new to this forum, but not to MB. I started posting back in 2001 on the EN forum when my now XH started his affair. I posted there for a couple of years. The EN forum just became too painful, so I stopped posting. I've come back a few times since that time mostly reading and trying to learn.

I came back today and found this thread very interesting and thought provoking.

I'm guess I'll just start writing what comes to mind hoping it'll relate well to this subject.

I'm not yet a second wife, but my boyfriend and I have been living together for about a year and a half and talk often about marriage. It's very difficult for both of us being the BSs. Me once, him many times. We each have a son from our previous marriages. My son is almost 8, his just turned 13. Blending families has been one of the hardest things I've ever done because I strive to do my best to make it work. To not let his son feel like an outsider because we live in the home I had before I met his dad. That he knows I have his best interests at heart and that I look out for him. He tells me that he loves me and calls my parents nana and grandpa. For the most part, things go really well. The hardest times I have is when he's hard on my son. When he's a bit mean or selfish or critical. My son is very active, hyper, and my SOs son is very mellow. There are a lot of things that I think my SOs exW does very wrong, but I don't ever talk about those things with his son. I'm a very involved mom...cub scouts, ice hockey, school, camping, fishing, bike rides, teaching him to ride a motorcycle, walks, legos, reading, etc. My SOs ex isn't involved at all. It's made his son somewhat learn to isolate himself. I understand that he's really had no choice, so we've done our best to integrate him in the activities we do as a family. My exH is even good to him. I'm sure my story's not unusual, but is very uncommon in a lot of ways.

My exH moved in with OW after she left her now exH. They lived together for about 3 months before he moved back out. She has 4 kids from 3 different fathers and the kids are all pretty unruly. This was VERY hard on my son. His dad forgot that in a lot of ways, your kids do have to come first. That we can't get so tangled up that we become so distracted and lose sight of our kid's needs. Thankfully, my exH figured out that he was making some huge mistakes and moved out and my son is now doing very well with most things. The divorce is still hard on him, but he's able to talk to me about how he's feeling. I don't bash his dad to him and fully support their relationship. I've paid for them to do small events together and there are times during the year where his dad will accompany us to events or holidays. There are also times where it is off limits for his dad to be there. Even though my son had a family that encompassed his dad and I, there is a new family forming now that needs to be able to establish what it will look like. Did I just end up rambling. :-)

coachswife,

I am bothered by the fact that you mentioned "laughing" at your H's exwife three times, and pitying her once. I don't know if she "respects" you (I doubt it) but I certainly would have no respect for someone who laughed at me behind my back.

Well… grrr… sometimes I hate computers.

In trying to avoid being on the internet for hours (we have dial up) I copied and pasted (or attempted to do so) your responses (Coachswife, JD and Nellie) onto a Word.doc. For some unknown reason, I’m unable to do it. I’ve crashed my computer, been thrown off AOL (I know – the dino of ISP’s <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) and lost everything I’d done to that point.

In an “everything happens for a reason” way, perhaps I’m meant to simply say the following:

Coachswife, JD13 and Nellie: Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

There were some things I wanted to say about what you’d written specifically. Now I can’t remember what they were (haha – old mind, irked by the computer issues, **poof** thoughts gone! LOL).

However, as a general response to everybody or nobody in particular, I’d like to say this:

You may notice that only women have written on this thread. Why?

Is it because men could care less what a second, first H, or any other man thinks of them? Do they feel concerned (or possibly threatened) in the same ways that women do? Why * isn’t * there a Co-DaDa’s site and/or movement afoot?

When my H meets up with his first W and she has her boyfriend present, my H never worries about what he’ll wear or how he looks. He doesn’t tell me how her bf looks, either. In fact, when I asked him what he looks like, my H said this: “Tall”. (hahaha… men!)

When I met my ex’s prior girlfriend last year, I scoped her out. I can tell you what she was wearing (a oatmeal colored linen cropped-pant suit), what color her hair was (blond, probably Clairol #30-something. I should know!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />), and other sundry items (toenails painted raisin red, nice skin, womanly figure, nervous smile)…

I didn’t look my * best * when I met her, but I did make sure I had on something other than sweats (LOL) and had washed, brushed, and shined myself up a bit. God only knows what she said about me to her friends…. If anything… I mean, I’m pretty sensitive, so sometimes I wonder if it’s just me that notices everything so much.

Just jabbering… and thinking out loud… wondering if it’s more a woman-thing than anything else. I know someone will tell me if I’m off-base… you always do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Nellie2-

To be clear, I don't want to be this woman's friend. I actually don't think she respects the person I am, more of the fact that I don't put up with her crap like everyone else does.

Are you projecting a bit of your anger at your own situation at me for some reason??

I wasn't the reason their marriage ended- he met me a good year after his divorce from her was final. Add that to the fact that she cheated for 18 months before she left him for the other man and was PG by the OM before their divorce was final.

I cannot help but laugh at her actions, because if I didn't they would make me furious. She's manipulated his mother repeatedly for years just because they have a grandchild and has been horrible to them. They have been incredibly generous with her and with the grandson. This was a woman who lied about having a inherited birth defect that she passed on to her own child! The stories of the things she's done would be too numerous to list but trust me, many people here would get a good laugh out of it I'm sure. Sometimes people do things so ridiculous you have to just laugh. To prevent her from causing stress in me, I laugh and let it roll off my back.

I don't know your situation but can you honestly say you've never talked negatively about say the OW if there is one or the exwife or previous GF?? If you can, well, my hat is off to you!

NB,

"Is it because men could care less what a second, first H, or any other man thinks of them? Do they feel concerned (or possibly threatened) in the same ways that women do?"

Ummmmmmm.....I'm glad you brought this topic up NB. I had a very interesting Sunday when EX saw BF for the first time. Boy was it UGLY.

EX showed up at YD's competition 1 hr after it started and saw that BF was sitting next to me, still he proceeded to sit 1 row down from us. My 3 kids were sitting all around Mike and I. YS went to sit by his dad, got bored after 10 minutes and went back to sit by BF. They were playing around and OD was joking around and talking to BF. I could tell EX was not happy to see how his kids were interacting with BF.

During the award ceremony I stood by EX and we both were taking pictures. We spoke briefly about the competition. BF was playing with YS and keeping an eye on all my kids since EX & I were trying to take pictures.

When it was time to leave everyone was walking to my car, the kids wanted to get their things to take to EX's house. BF and OD were walking ahead talking and laughing about a piece of fireball she had taken and he wanted it. Then I heard a voice say, "That's not your job!" I turned around and said, "Excuse me?" EX said, "Disciplining my daughter is not your job, you are not the parent, you're just her (me) current BF!" BF turned around and said, "Do you even know what we are talking about?" EX said, "I heard you telling her (me) that my daughter stole a fireball and you're giving her a hard time about it!" I then said to EX, "You don't know the whole story, both of them were joking around, there is no disciplining going on, perhaps you need to work on your insecurity issues." I don't remember what EX said but I heard OD screaming at him to stop and then she told him how she hates him and that she doesn't even want to go to his house. BF then just walked on ahead, I knew he was angry and did not want to say anything to EX with all the children there.

We got to my car and I unlocked the car for kids to get their things, OD locks herself in the car and refuses to leave. EX told me that it was all my fault because I brainwash the kids about OW and that's why they don't want to go to his house. I told him there was no brainwashing, kids did not like OW because she was my friend and broke up their parent's marriage. I told him that he really needs to focus on his insecurities. EX said why should he be insecure, since I am with an old, ugly bald guy. Hmmmmmm, I was not talking about that insecurity, I was talking about his relationship with his kids. But now, I see that he is jealous of BF.

So in my case, EX is very concerned about BF. But for the most part, I think you are correct with that comment about men.

coachswife,


I know I can't. I wish I *were* bigger than that, but I've been very NOT-compassionate at times. I won't even tell you what my kids have said about my ex's gf's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ... *especially* the one (OW) that ended the marriage. He kept her around for two years and I heard plenty - and listened, and joined in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Not my proudest moment.

Immovingon,

Interesting. I stand corrected!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

One thing about my sitch, is that my ex hasn't met my H. He used to hang up the phone if H answered... and I mean as recently as last year! He wants nothing to do with him. However, in the last six months or so, he's softened a bit. He says he'd shake his hand... which is a good thing since our oldest daughter is getting married this year and I've been scared spitless about the two of them actually meeting.

All that to say, my ex hasn't felt exactly threatened, but he's been angry... because he realized (too late) what he threw away (wonderful me). He's said as much to me. One of the reasons he hasn't married again (it's been five years since the divorce) is because nobody will put up with him. He isn't (wasn't) an easy man to live with...

My situation is very weird....my exH thinks my BF is wonderful. He too realized what he threw away and has finally come to realize that he made a huge mistake. He also can see how wonderful my BF is. He'd be happy as pie to hang out with him, but my BF wants nothing to do with that. My BF is friendly and cordial with my son's dad on occasions where we're together, but it does make my BF uncomfortable in a lot of ways. He's said that there are times where he feels like he's dating someone's GF when we're together. My exH isolated him from everyone when he met OW and now that that's over, he's got no one. It's honestly really sad, but he made his bed. I'm very fortunate in that my BF understands that parents often have to compromise a lot for their kids. I'm the den leader for my son's cub scout den and we have weekly meetings. Both my son's dad and my BF are at the meetings. We have a huge 4th of July celebration in my town and on the years that I have my son, we'll often invite his dad so that he can share it with my S, but we don't interact much. As years pass, it all seems to become so much easier. I don't want to have to struggle with my son's dad on stupid things, so the amicable relationship has definitely had its rewards.

Yes, JD, as the years pass, things get easier, don't they? (Except for in Nellie's case, which I HOPE is unique!)

It's so neat that they can be at scout meetings and things together... just wonderful, for your son, most of all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (And I'm sure, as you've written here, a good thing for you, too!)

As the years have passed in my situation, my ex has realized he made some big mistakes in the things he told his family and our friends. While I worked very hard to keep him included in my family (he was Uncle D for my niece's entire lives, why should those precious girls lose him?)... he cut me out of his familoy with a sharp knife. He regrets it BIG TIME. The last thing his father (my ex-FIL) said to me was: You will always be our daughter. Then I never heard from them again. Lately, my ex's family has been telling my ex and kids that they want my address to write. It remains to be seen if they will, but I appreciate the thought. I would be happy to keep in touch and not have to worry I'll be shunned at my daughter's wedding, for example.

Divorce just sucks... and everything surrounding it. Even under the best of circumstances (by that I mean: striving for compassion all-around, after the fact). But I strive to make things the best they can be... but then again, I'm a dreamer... and a conflict-avoider (yipes)... I want peace. I don't know that it can be accomplished in all cases... and wonder if it's realistic, anyway.

Thanks for the nice reply NB. The efforts I put forth with my exH is FOR my son. Not for me, not for looks, etc...for my son. We had an awful and ugly divorce. He had an affair, he left, he stole $20K from a line of credit, I paid alimony and still pay child support even though I have my son more than 1/2 time. I pay his child care, scout fees, all clothing, field trips, etc. I have many many reasons to be hateful and ugly to my son's dad, but how does that help my son???? It doesn't. It was difficult when my son would talk about the OW in good ways. He knew I didn't like the OW at all, but I would tell him that I'm glad she's good to him and that he likes her. That it's ok for people not to like each other, but to respect people as individuals. I supportted (to a degree) his relationship with her and it ended up being the best thing I did. I kept my son's trust and he can talk to me about anything.

My BF, son, BF's son and I all went on vacation. My son doesn't get to see his grandparents on his dad's side very often at all. I spoke to my BF about driving a little extra to have them be able to see my son. My BF was comfortable doing this and my son's grandparents were delighted! My exH's parents LOVED my BF. I still keep in contact with my ex FIL via email. I send them links to pictures we take of vacations, scouting events, ice hockey, school events, etc. I know that my ex in laws know their son made a huge mistake too. I'm sorry that you got cut out of thier lives. So many lives are affected by divorce. My parents loved my exH like a son. My dad and exH were best friends. Because of all the ugliness that ensued from the divorce, my parents could no longer love him like they did. They still miss him, but he caused too much hurt to them. Not just because of the A, but the choices he made and the cruelty he became so able to exert. I'm not sure he can repair that relationship, and I know that kills my exH. My family LOVES my BF now. Can you maybe write to them first? Maybe they're not sure how you'll react...I know once I made the first contact, they jumped all over the opportunity to stay in touch. I mostly talk to my ex FIL, but my ex MIL and I never really got along well anyway. It seems like by the statement your FIL made regarding you always being their daughter, he'd like to keep contact but isn't sure how it will go over or how to really initiate contact or even what to say.

I belive all things can eventually find their peace.

I have too went through being removed from my exhusbands family although one of the last things they told me was "We're not taking sides, we love you both" So much for that!

I think my exhusband respects my current husband a bit- he's a teacher, he's good to the kids, his parents are good to the kids. I think for that reason alone he doesn't mind him as much. I was separated when I met my husband but he didn't meet my children until after the divorce was final. Once DD asked to talk to my husband on the phone when she was at her dad's. We were having a party at our house but my husband made a point of going into the bedroom to talk to her on the phone. My exh was furious! Told me I should have lied to her and told her he wasn't there. That is was disrespectful to him. I calmly explained to him that he should be glad that he is good to the kids, it could be much worse and that neither of us should encourage the kids to not like the person in the other person's life. Besides, if I would have done that and she cried then he would have had something negative to say about that too.

All my kids love my H, too... he's a good man, cares and listens... and sadly, they all have issues with their dad and his choices (especially his gf choices) that have bled into their relationship with him. They love him, but they don't respect him.

Not to sound like I think I did everything right (I DID NOT, not even close)... but maybe *because I did not* I worked very hard to maintain their trust and love. My ex didn't.

I have written to my H's parents, JD... about four years ago... and they wrote back, but when I wrote again, they didn't. This year I sent a Christmas card. My ex's sister, who I have not heard from or written to specifically, asked for my address at Christmas this year, so I'm hoping a relationship can be re-established. However,I have always been very cognizent of the truth that blood is (indeed) thicker than water. When I told my (then)IL's that their son was cheating on me (in 1987) with not just one, but 3 OW, they were consoling, but basically said that 'boys will be boys'... it was never mentioned again, although my MIL did ask my (then)H to take me to a party where she knew OW #1 would be. When he refused, she stayed with me. So she was trying to be supportive in the only way she knew how. But she'd never "talk smack" about her son. (To use a phrase my kids use <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.)

It's hard. Leaving my former in laws was probably harder than leaving the marriage. Still makes me sad. I can only hope that over the years as they see that I continue to be a good mom to the kids, they can move past their bitterness towards me.

hehe... I think it's the "Let's discuss" in your subject title. If you had "Help!" or "fix me", they would come running. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Faith,

Oh yeah, you're probably right! LOL I didn't even realize... hahahahaha... thanks for setting me straight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

*snort* good one Faith <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

DW

LMAO!

I can relate to alot of what your bf is saying here, especially when ex-spouses make it a point to spend holidays and b-days and so forth together, even when they think it's best for the kids.

But is it really best for the kids? Does it give them a 'false hope' that mom and dad could get back together if bf or gf wasn't in the picture at all?

I'm sure it makes your bf wonder why the two of you got divorced, and it might make him feel that if he wasn't in the picture maybe the two of you really could work things out and save your marriage/family.

From what your saying, I take it your bf doesn't have kids?

If not, imagine for a moment how it would make you feel if he did and most all his childrens b-day's and holidays were spent with his ex-wife there so that the kids can have both parents there.

And you sat back and watched him and his ex-wife laughing and joking around together with their kids looking like the happy family celebrating. So yeah, I can see how he feels as if he is some how intruding in another relationship (marriage).

Maybe ask yourself, are you emotionally divorced from your ex-husband? You might think so, but it might not come across that way by your actions.

LMAO... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I would be happy to post on this thread (oops, I just did), but I have no experience in this matter. All I know is that my ex and her H went about it all wrong, so I know what not to do. A couple of noteworthy moments on their part included: making out on the couch every night while the kids were relegated to watching TV, leading to the kids bitterly complaining to me; ex's H being "upset" that I exist in the kids' life (all together now - Duh...); and, weirder than all, ex and her H trying to tell my kids that they should love H (the stepdad) no less than they love me.. whatever.

All I know is that G appears to be very delicate in not making too many waves at this point, so I think we'll do fine. I do, however, sense some weirdness in my ex already, I think she feels threatened by the fact that the kids like G. I realize that it's mostly her issue, but any issue of hers affects me as well since it affects the kids. We'll see.

Anyway, good news is that you now have a guy posting on this thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

such a Good Guy.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A BOY, A BOY!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yea!!!! ::::cheer:::

AGG, Thank you for venturing into chick territory and sharing your perspective!!

What your ex did CERTAINLY sounds like some "What NOT to do" material. I never, ever, ever expected my H's kids to think I'm a replacement mom. And I never expected to hear, "I love you"... and have from his daughter, but not his son. However, but I have heard "I like you" and "I respect you" and "Sit with me" and "I thought about you when I saw _________"... which translate into... "You are a part of our lives and it's not too bad"...

And we have NEVER "made out" or forced any of our kids into an icky or embarrassing situation like that. We do say we love each other, that our marriage is important, and that their feelings are important. We've hugged in front of them sometimes, or held hands, even a quick peck as we passed each other to the kitchen, but by now it's been years and we feel it's pretty safe territory.

TR,

I *do* understand what you're saying!

I agree that 'attachment' may be there (not necessarily in the situation you quoted, but said generally) and may be sending a wrong message to kids, especially young ones who don't understand the permanency of divorce. Even older kids might be confused. With my kids, because of their age and also because I *am* re-married (not just dating my H - said not in judgement of anyone who is, just saying that my H and I are legally bound)... anyway... with my kids... they have told me how much they appreciate that their dad and I get along (all say "better than we you were married"). That is not to say that one or more of them might not harbor a secret desire that we get back together, because I'm realistic enough to know that most kids really do want Mom and Dad together no matter what.

When my parents separated (about ten years ago now - they reconciled)... I was in my 30's... and I swear, I went right to that 8-year-old little-girl place that wanted Mommy and Daddy together. I wondered how we'd handle holidays... would Dad, and old-fashioned man, be able to take care of himself? ... What would them being divorced "look like"?? I was happy when they got back together. Even though, in my memory, my parents have fought for their entire marriage. Even though my mom can be a real pill (poor Dad!). Even though Dad could find someone who would be faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more respectful of his feelings. None of that mattered.

I also understand the discomfort for a new spouse when the ex's are friendly, trip down memory lane, laugh together at jokes you don't understand... or even glance at each other in a knowing way. BTDT, on both sides, as a guest and participant. You don't just ERASE umpteen (or 20-30-plus) years of marriage experience. You just DON'T. Better to accept that, embrace the reality, and breathe.

Belonging, Allure, Devistated and Faith, THANK YOU for dropping by! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gosh, I was reminded of this thread last night when I had ex issues!

When I got remarried I moved over the state line- which was allowed in my divorce/custody papers. We share custody 50/50. I'm not too far for him to drive but it is a commute. My kids go to school in my former state.

When I have them I get up at 4:45 to drive an hour and half back to work. I told my ex when I moved I would do this for the first year but that I wanted to move towards a compromise in schooling. Because my husband is a teacher I can put them into school in the middle. Exactly the same distance from his house to school as from my house to school. He refuses to discuss doing it. It's just like it's his decision only. He doesn't care about how hard it is on the kids to make the commute every other week.

He told me last night that I was the one who moved so I could get my "*SS" in the car and make the drive. I feel that I'm only asking for what's fair. I didn't ask that he make the full drive out to my house.

Now, I'm going to have to take him back to court. I'm very uncomfortable about the whole thing- I have an appt Monday. I keep telling him that this will not turn out the way he thinks it will. I'm not sure why he thinks I will lose.

I don't want to take them away from him but I may have no choice but to make it where they spend the weeks during school with me- and the summers with him. I have tons of emails where he is being irrational and uncompromising not to mention documented times where he has forgotten their lunch money, not picked up their medicine when they are sick and with him, and not had my daughter in her car seat.

Here I am bragging about how good it's been lately and look where I am now..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

coachswife,

I'm so sorry you're going through that right now. Sounds like it may be just beginning... (((coachswife))). I don't have any advice, per se, but can only imagine the stress of a court battle... and battles about children are NEVER good!

You are welcome, it's my pleasure to learn from you all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


My kids are younger, so they are probably more apt to accept new people in their lives and to learn to "love" them. And they have constantly expressed that to their stepdad, which is totally fine by me. The weird thing is that he does very little to truly focus on them - he basically acts as the mom's husband. But heck, if you act like the mom's husband rather than the stepdad, why would you expect to be viewed as an equal to a super-involved dad like myself? That is the part I don't get - he gets the "ILY's" from the kids, he gets the respect, but he is "uncomfortable" with me or the fact that the kids love me more than him. Weird.

I had a chat with my 10yo about this, and she said that she told him that she loves us both the same, to assuage his "issues". I tried to tell her that it's OK for her to feel differently towards him and me, but she got upset, which tells me that she is feeling pressure in that household to love him as much as me.

Like I said, I am not planning to get tangled up in that, it just seems that the more mature people in that household are my kids, rather than my ex and H. For instance, my 10yo told me later that when G and I bumped into them at the restaurant last weekend, my ex did not want to go to the bathroom because she didn't want me and G to see her go.. WTF?? So my 10yo volunteered to go with her, so it'd look like she needed to go rather than my ex. Bizarre stuff...

AGG

Thorned Rose:

There are only a couple of holidays we spend together and it's never at one or the other's house. Halloween, we'll walk separately, but my son gets to share that holiday with both of us....On the 4th of July, my BF and I are with our friends and my son's dad is just there. I'm often surprised my son's dad doesn't feel weird becuase he doesn't really know anyone there and I don't interact with him very much at all. Things are kept on a very business like and cordial level. I can understand your point, but it's not an all warm and family type situation.


I've had many conversations with my son that even if my BF wasn't in the picture, that I'd not be with his dad, but that in no way changes how I feel about my son. Again, in the way we are with each other isn't at all warm, but cordial. When we do attend cub scout activities or a school plays, etc. I don't sit near my son's dad. I'm not presenting a combined front with my son's dad, but exhibit very clearly that my BF is who I'm with and who I love and that I am no longer with nor will I ever be with my son's dad again. My BF is incredibly good to my son and my son's dad respects and appreciates that and has told my BF that.


It's pretty clear why we're divorced. I'd not go back to him for a multitude of reasons. Tons of reasons that even have nothing to do with being in a relationship with someone else. I was divorced for 3 years before I met my BF. My exH had an affair, stole money so he could leave, I had to pay his attorney and I paid alimony for 18 months and continue to pay child support even though I have my son more than 50% of the time. I'd be alone before I'd be married to him again. If you knew more of my situation and my actions, I think you'd have no problem agreeing with that.


Actually he does. He's got a 13 year old son that I treasure and treat very well.


Again, this is SO how it's not.


Very much so...regardless, I am the grownup. My son didn't choose this divorce, so I do my best to let him know he doesn't have to choose. That we both love him even if we don't love each other.

Is that a bit more clear now. I'm sorry if I presented a not so clear picture. I understand wanting/needing more clarification. :-)

Pfft, what a piece of work, those two <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Do you get along w/ your ex? Is her H the OM? Sorry, but her H sounds like a turd...oops did I just say that out loud? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, I think this is fairly common at first AGG. Mama bear doesn't want some other chickie gettin' to close to her cubs. She WILL be vigilant, but hopefully, in time, she'll get over it. When exWH had a girlfriend (not OW) recently, DD really liked her (well, she was only like 15 yrs older than DD <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, but I digress.....hiss, meow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />), she seemed like a really nice person, but there was this part of me that was quite territorial about my baby, not that I would EVER admit it to exWH or DD. Ultimately, as long as she was good to DD, I was hunky dory, but the ever watchful eagle-eye was present. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ExWH felt the same at times about my exBF. That Papa Bear came out in him too. I remember having to soothe and console him one day b/c DD chose to spend the afternoon w/ us (exBF and his kids) instead of heading out to her dads until later that night. I acknowledged his feelings, and assured him he'll always be #1 in her book (and he knows this, he just was having a nice pout). He got over it.

It'll be hinky in the beginning, but sheesh you know this! Forgot, you've been out there longer than me. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Someone posted a web-site about Co-Mama's and it explained the dynamic/feelings of what ex wives and current wives go thru raising *mutual* kids.

I need to google that and bookmark it for future reference....

DW

NewBeg, you sound like you really got it going on! Kudos to you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, AGG, I just read your other post, and, yup weird. WTF indeed. Sounds like more issues that just the old Mama bear stuff.Did your ex have self-esteem issues?

Thorned, you brought up something that I think about quite frequently...that fact the my exWH and I getting along really well sending DD mixed signals. She's brought it up a few times and I've addressed it and have told her that the friendship part in our marriage survived, that we did our best, worked our hardest to keep her family whole, but that we will always love her, no matter what. She does not know about her father's infidelity or all the other issues that caused the break down in our marriage.

Anyhoo, I'm off topic again. I am learning alot here and thank you for bringing this up New Beg!

No, thank you, DevWife, and everyone else who so generously shared your thoughts, ideas and experiences with us! This thread is EVERYTHING I had hoped, and more. We certainly got a cross-section of people included (tho, poor ol' AGG was inundated with estrogen! A few more good men would have been a good thing, too!).

If anyone has anything to add, please feel FREE to do so... this conversation won't be officially over until it drops from the page. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If now is the time, though... I am very thankful to those of you who helped to make it what it is!

NB,

I couldn't agree more - yet that is precisely what many second wives seem to want to do.

Coachswife,

Aside from the fact that you can not lump ex-wives in with OW's, because the former have not done anything to YOU, while the latter most certainly have committed a crime against you (yes adultery is a crime in my state), I do not laugh at my H's OW. She is hardly a laughing matter. Twelve year old girls laugh at others, unfortunately. It is not appropriate adult behavior, no matter how awful the subject of the joke. It is especially inconsiderate to laugh at a person who is loved by your husband's child. If you have something negative to say about her, that is at least honest and not passive-agressive. And no, I never said anything disrespectful about my H's first wife, to my H or to anyone else.

Am I missing something? Wouldn't they have a longer commute than they do now, during the weeks they are with him?

No, the school that I want to send them to is in the middle inbetween his house and mine. 20 minutes from my house and 20 minutes from his. When I make the full trip it takes 40 minutes for me to get to their school and the rest of the time to drive back to my work- which is near where they would go to school.

Understood. This is where her own words will get her in trouble - if she told our daughter that she should love her stepdad as much as she loves me, then does it not follow that our daughter should also love G (if she ever becomes the stepmom) as much as she loves my ex? How silly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Anyway, I am being very careful here, because I do very much expect Mama BEar to flex her muscle, and given how weird her behavior has been, I expect nothing but more of the same. Good thing G and I are sane and stable, sheesh.

AGG

Tons!! Her entire sense of self worth depends on how much others love her, ugh.

This has been my reality, too, for a long, long time. A very, very long time.

Okay, forever.

I had a life-changing thing happen over the last three months. I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say that my entire life, my philosophy of life, and my "being" felt in question... and then...

*poof*

It wasn't.

At the end of the tunnel, there was light. I haven't seen light this bright for years. Maybe since I was a child.

I simply don't care (in the same mind-numbingly, unhealthy ways I did before) what people think.

I care what my children think of me as a mother. I care what my H thinks of me as a wife. I care what my friends think of me as a friend. (You're getting the drift, right?)

I don't want to go through anything again like I did over the last several months. Heck, the last YEAR has been very hard on me (my beloved grandmother/closest friend/champion passed away last February). I could go on and on about things I found out about myself over this time. It's been an amazing experience. A growing time. But most of all, I'm finding out who I am at my core.

Anyway, AGG... hopefully your ex will find what she needs and quit trying to control everything -- which, let's be real, she never had control of in the first place.

Life... what is it John Lennon said: Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans.

Gotta love it.

I do too... The reality of it, though, is that from what I see, she is not even heading in the right direction. Afraid to go to the bathroom because G and I will "see her"??? How weird.

Moreover, I see the same passive aggressive and totally dishonest behavior that I saw for 12 years of marriage. After G and I came by to say "hi" to her and H and our kids (and she was very friendly and sweet), she e-mailed me saying how nice it was. Then come to find out from the kids that it made them "uncomfortable". Whatever. Let's face it, had I not come over, I would have been accused of being "distant" - I can't win those games, nor do I want to try.

The nice thing is that G and I had a discussion about this, to let her gain some insight into what she might be seeing down the line. And oh what a relief it was to talk about this to a sane person, who saw the same events as I did, and who also cannot believe that my ex should have felt threatened in any way.

AGG

Hmmmmm, this fits right into her self-esteem issues. Does your ex-wife struggle w/ weight issues? I only ask, b/c you've mentioned how very attractive G is physically, and if your ex-wife doesn't feel that she is attractive, she may have immediately compared herself to G, found herself wanting, and wasn't about to expose herself to scrutiny when she feels bad about herself. Am I making any sense? Lets face it, women derive ALOT of self esteem thru how they look. One of the many pitfalls of our society. I'll admit it, it's important to me, but I do know that there is a WHOLE lot more to me than how I look (not that I'm some glamour puss, but you get my drift).I dunno, it just seems really odd to me that a grown woman wouldn't go to the bathroom by herself. I know us girls like to go in pairs, but c'mon! Maybe she feared running into G in the bathroom by herself? Like G would do that anyway. She sounds way to level headed to put your ex, let alone herself, in a potentially uncomfortable position.

Your ex IS very passive-aggressive all in the name of "looking good", a people pleaser, trying to achieve that love, in order to fill her void.

Doesn't surprise me at all that your ex felt threatened, not b/c or you or G, but b/c of herself.

DW

Bingo. I suspected that this was the issue, despite it being totally silly - my ex is extremely attractive and quite trim - but she did tell our daughter that she (ex) needs to lose weight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Still, even if that is what was burning her up, she could have gone around us instead of in front of us...


It's a toss-up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. G is taller and thinner, and, IMO, much prettier - but like I said, my ex is no slouch either and has no trouble turning heads. The real issue is my ex's insecurity, no one can help her with that.


Yes, and to get to the point of our daughter having to walk her there??? Nuts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.


Very well said, DW, and I am so happy to observe this from the outside (especially with the sane and normal G by my side), than remembering how it was living with that (and now wondering how things must be for her new H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />).

AGG

I understand what devwife is saying, and you too, AGG, because a woman's worth seems so tied with the society standard for beauty.

One thing about me, and this flies in the face of all my problems with self-worth... I've always appreciated a beautiful person (male or female).

However, I do remember feeling very threatened when my ex-H had a skinny, tan, blond OW... especially on the heels of my having three babies in four years. My youngest wasn't even a year old when he first began messing around in ernest. I thought I couldn't compete with her beauty. I still remember her pretty ankles (she wore a puka shell anklet - can you say "1987"?). I have thick ankles. She had a tan. I'm fair. You know, that kind of thing. But she was the OW. How can you not feel threatened?

But G isn't an OW, and your ex is remarried. What's to feel threatened about?

It's a head-scratcher.

NB,

I think it's baffling when the WS gets so insecure when they see us with SO.

In *some* cases, like with my ex, it was okey-dokey if he cheated (boys will be boys) but when I did, it was not. Maybe some of that rubs off and comes along for the ride after the marriage ends. I don't know.

(And so that I'm crystal clear - it was NOT okay, right, understandable, or explain-away-able when I cheated. I always feel compelled to say that because once, a few years ago, someone who didn't know me - or *of* me - and my many thousand posts where I spoke of wanting to die after my affair- thought I was minimizing my affair. I never have.)

That's right... My ex was the WS, and G has nothing to do with anything that way (besides, ex and I have been divorced for five years). Go figure...

AGG

Nellie,



I never read before that your ex-h was married prior to you. What is the history of that marriage? Are there children?

NB,



I'm so sorry for your loss!



She is and forever will be with you and it's showing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Ragamuffin!!

What a touching, lovely thing to say!

She passed on February 2nd last year, so these weeks coming up to the anniversary seem especially poignant. However, I agree with you... she *is* with me...

And... I have her brown eyes... nobody else in our family has (or had) brown eyes... just us... I see her there.

Ah, <sigh>... I just miss her. Thank you for allowing me to say so.

Ragamuffin,

My H was married briefly several years before I met him. His wife left him - no kids. In retrospect, I don't think he ever got over it.

I think it depends, to a certain extent, on the maturity and self-esteem of the parties involved.

My ex-husband and I parted with all our affairs resolved. No could've/would've/should've failed to be dealt with. We were done, and didn't have issues with moving on. I've remarried, and while things have settled down now, in the beginning, my husband's ex had issues.

I think A Good Guy's ex might be like my husband's ex-wife. She left him in search of I don't know what. When he asked to finalize the divorce, she didn't quarrel. But when he married me, 2 years after she left him -- she went a little nuts. She apparently thought he'd never move on and make a new life. Perhaps if her boyfriend and she had married, her perspective would have been better. But they didn't, and apparently her ego was bruised by our marriage.

We've been married about a year now, and the last 6 months or so have been quiet. Maybe she's found some measure of peace.

Regarding the initial question, I think I agree with earlier posters who felt it is inappropriate and confusing to go to the ex-spouse's home for visitation. The home of the ex-spouse is not "the marital home" -- and in our case, ex-wife's new home was never a home my husband was in. The "marital home" is with the new spouse -- whether that be second husband or second wife. The children should know they have two homes where they are wanted and safe. And their stepparents should be part of that.

I think it should be noted that not all stepmothers want to be "mom" to their stepchildren, nor do we deride their mothers. Furthermore, I think it's unfair to lump second husbands and wifes in with Other Women/Other Men. Most of us aren't.

I'd like to see stepparents/second husbands and wifes -- be treated with some measure of respect and acceptance.

Hi Belle, and thank you for your response!

I agree about the maturity level of both partners. It's great that you and your ex had no issues to resolve. How I wish it had been true in my (and my H's) cases. Maturity might involve knowing not to get involved with someone else too quickly after the divorce (or during separation). Age possibly has something to do with it, too, as well as life experiences. My life has never been what anyone would call "easy" and I wasn't expecting an easy transition through my divorce and remarriage either. Good or bad? I don't know... it just is.

And I also agree that step-mum's are given a bum rap sometimes (thanks Grimm and Disney! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

And as far as respect: I try to treat ALL people with respect, even when I don't agree with their choices. I do, occasionally, fall into a blame trap. I don't like me when I'm like that.

I have said before that I am becoming more and more convinced that the best thing for children would be for both their parents not to remarry (or live with a SO), at least until the children are adults. I realize that to legislate this would probably backfire, since there are some people out there who wouldn't hesitate to murder their children in order to be with their SO. However, I would bet that many WS's would think twice before abandoning their families if they knew they could never live with the OP. Even in cases where the second spouse is not an OP, from what I have seen and from what I had read on this board over the last seven years, at best there are numerous difficulties in blending families, and more often having one's parent remarry is an overwhelmingly negative and occasionally fatal experience for the children.

Nellie,

The best thing would be to never divorce. And yes, I'm serious. I know I'm a day late and a million dollars short (since I not only divorced but remarried)... but for the children, especially young ones, the best thing of all is to remain intact.

That said, once the couple is divorced, if you have a choice between getting married again or "trying out" a revolving door of "replacement mom's or dad's"... my money's on getting married again.

In a perfect world (which I doubt has ever existed) couples would marry for life, not cheat on their spouses, and be good parents to their children.

Since it doesn't seem likely to happen, and infidelity is on the rise (especially among women) and divorce has been 50% or over since I can remember, and children are falling through the cracks in intact and broken families... then the next best choice may be to never have children. That way, when the inevitable happens, no children are harmed.

All of this is just... musing out loud... because the reality is that second/third/fourth marriages do occur, and with a kind of regularity that I still find shocking (I'm old-fashioned at heart). So, what can we do to make things better with that reality? We can do our best. Nothing more.

I just pray that our best is good enough in the long run. 'Cause as far as I can tell, we've got some pretty significant problems (with our children) on our hands. I take responsibility for my small part... as I suspect most of us do.

You're right... we see enough here to scare the snot out of us. And I suspect that the REALLY BIG ISSUES are never discussed openly - or rarely.

NB,

I agree completely that the best thing is not to ever divorce.I would never have divorced my H - not only do I not believe in divorce, but even in the midst of his affair he was still a better father than he is now. I certainly would not recommend a revolving door of potential replacements, but of course that is not the only alternative to remarriage. Staying single is a very viable option. Actually I have no idea how single parents even find time to date and still have time for their children. I go out to dinner or somewhere with my co-workers perhaps once a month, and even finding the time to do that is difficult. I suppose not having children is an option, but it wouldn't do much for the long-term survival of the species.

"Actually I have no idea how single parents even find time to date and still have time for their children."


When I started dating BF, I only saw him when the kids were with EX, that was every other weekend. Rarely did we ever meet for lunch, when we did it was during the weekdays when the children were in school.

We talked on the phone every night, but only after the kids were in bed. BF usually call around 9:30PM and my kids were in bed by 8:30PM.

We had this schedule for 11 months. After I introduced the children to BF, our schedule still remains the same, except I see him every weekend.

I think this works for us because I was very honest from the beginning. I explained that I have children and they come first. BF have the same morals, values and beliefs, so he was very accepting of my choices and was in agreement from day one, which makes a huge difference.

Of course, Nellie, staying single is a very viable option. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Most of us, however, don't. You're rare, I think...

I wonder if MB is really more like an enclave, and not representative of the greater whole? In which case, maybe more people do remain single after divorce.

<shrug>

Like I've said, I don't stand in judgement of those who make different choices than I do. And I no longer choose to beat myself up for some of my poorer choices. Which, believe me, is a VERY good thing. I was miserable for a really long time.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have done some things differently. For me, it is because of my son. Because of his special needs, he will (most likely, but I'm not counting him out just yet!) live at home forever. I just wish I could provide that safe haven (home) for him because his situation is anything but stable right now (long story involving his dad). He's not in danger, unless it's death by boredom and/or his father denying his disabilities. I worry about him.

I know that staying with my ex would NOT have been the best for ME- or for him. But for our son, I have no doubt-- it would have been for the best. My ex had (still has) the money to provide for him, I had the understanding, energy, time and effort to get him what he needed (needs).

So the question might become: How long do you sacrifice for your children? Forever?

Just something to think about, I guess.

All I know is that I never expected things to be easy in my second marriage. I had enough doubt and shame to taint it from the get-go...

... but a funny thing (or two) happened: I became friends with my ex-H. My children adore(d) me in spite of my choices. My H's kids learned to respect me and know that I have their best interests at heart.

And, I am married to a dear man who I trust to hold my heart in his hands. I couldn't say that about my ex-H, which is sad.

Most of all, I know how blessed I am. Amidst some really crummy circumstances in my life, I am loved. I love. Call me a new-age-mushball, but in the end, I think that love is kinda/sorta important. And I do have that. When all else feels like it's falling down around my ears, I have love. Yep. <sigh>

PS: In re-reading, I see that I sound a little like lovesick teenager. All that love talk, eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The reality for me is that I *am* remarried, and that I *do* have a good H. And we love each other.

To go back now would be lunacy.

I did do the best I could at the time. I know that so deeply in my soul... in my bones...

In hindsight (where all the best thinking is done, no?)... I can see that for our son, especially, a restored family would have been best.

However, I don't think that 'making things right' would now involve a restored marriage to my ex. Talk about confusing the kids. Yipes.

If there was a true desire to go that direction for any parents who are divorced... they would need a ton of counseling, and a whole lot of other things (including OBVIOUSLY a divorce from the the current spouse ).

It's been done, of course, with varying results. If Dr. Phil is right, he says that remarriage to a former spouse rarely works unless the problems that ripped the marriage apart in the first place are STRONGLY dealt with (healed). I can imagine that to be true, BIG TIME.

(Insanity: doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.)

Well, this thread took quite an interesting turn, didn't it?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I am sorry to hear that your son will probably be living at home forever. That must be very difficult for him.


Yeah, I don't think forever is unreasonable. To varying degrees many parents do just that, whether financially, or by taking care of their grandchildren so that their children can work, etc. Generally what I do for my kids doesn't feel like a sacrifice - my kids are my life, and they used to be my husband's life as well. That doesn't mean that child-related activities consume/consumed my/our entire life - I have a career I enjoy and way too many animals - but when you have as many kids as I do, childraising in not a mere two decade interlude. By the time my youngest finishes college and perhaps returns home for a year or two afterwards, I will be getting close to 70.

In my case, everyone is worse off because of the divorce - our kids, myself, and my husband, who has essentially lost the family that used to be so important to him. If he is happier now, he certainly does a good job of hiding it.

I know, Nellie, and as always, I'm sorry you are still suffering so much. It can't be good for anyone. (((Nellie)))

As far as my son: This is another issue that (as a mother) I worry about, because my ex is one who has a revolving door of (his words) stbx-girlfriends.

My son (and in fact, all my adult children) have been a thorn in the side of almost all of my ex's relationships. I won't even go into how he picks these women, because none of them seem to be interested in much other than his money and what he can give them. Our kids see this, and have no respect for the women (not one has had a stamp of approval from the kids). Respect for their dad is at an all-time low, also.

I worry that his current flame will get tired of them (she and my ex) not living together and force my ex to push our son out on his own. There's been issues surrounding this already.

So see, I am not only a second wife, but a first one, and a mother. My son (who is 21 but more like a 16 year old) is getting some very mixed, confusing, and hurtful messages from Dad.

Yet, he adores his dad (of COURSE, I'd want it no other way). He *wants* to stay there. I always thought it was best that he did, but now I wonder.

It doesn't have to be suffering to think this way (as Nellie2)...
I'm very close to that too... and I understand why she thinks so... I'm with one child (4), and I can just imagine if I had 6...

Re: if there are more divorced who never remarry...
I don't think so...
Many (most?) women cannot have 'fulfilled' life with no 'their man' in it... (The same as with men... Btw, I see less and less differences between men and women... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />)

A very good friend of mine divorced 14 years ago... has a daughter (now 19), not that she didn't remarry, she never had a lover...
I asked her why... She said - all those compromises, fear of what she might bring into life of her daughter too, how her daughter will accept the gay... she said - it's not worth it putting so much effort to have - what?... She likes their life, peace above all...

I'm a bit different though...
I don't want to give up romance, friendship, sex (all together, with one man, if possible <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)... but I don't think I'd live with any man for a long long time... till my son leaves my/our home, I think...
The more time passes by, the more I think it'll be so...

And I'm fine with that... Even now, I have no man in my life, but I'm just the happiest person as I could ever be (most of times <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).
I do enjoy life with my son so much; I compensate him all I missed when was married during his first 2 years of his young life, when I was in sorrow, devastated, depressed...
NOW my son really has me, all mom's love and attention he needs.
The man I could fell in love with should be very very special to make for him some space in my life too, to 'move' even a bit, my son from the place he's now in my heart and in my life, to 'adjust priorities'... and I don't think he exists at all... Not SO much worthy, anyway...

And, no, it is not my dissapointment in men...
It's just my knowledge about them, living with them (from my own experience and from experiences of the others), i.e. about myself... now...

Belonging to Myself (I love your name!)... gosh... to have made that decision BEFORE rushing forward (as Nellie did, too) is so wise. I really wish I'd given myself the time to do that. I might have found out some really interesting things about myself.

One decision, just the one, set in motion a chain of events that I wasn't expecting... didn't foresee... though I know now that I had the wisdom inside of me all the time (I sound like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

Life is about doing the best we can with what we have NOW. That's really why I began this thread in the first place. Yeah, I made some choices that, in hindsight, weren't the best. Still, I am *this person* now. Today. I have to work with that. And maybe I can share a few do's and don't's for others behind/beside me. And others can share their own journeys... which is exactly what happened here.

We've got someone who rebounded into marriage (me) and someone who has chosen to remain single until her children are grown (Nellie) and some souls in-between. Nobody can say that we haven't seen all sides represented here (or darned close to it).

This has been a great thread, and I thank each and every one of you (once again) for your contributions.

Thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
(It has even more value considering it as replacement of my original one (when first started coming here)... (ex and never again and late)-Belonging to Nowhere <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)



Well, you lost something and gained something else... the same as us...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As with whatever we choose...
Feeling that by making a choice we gained more than we lost makes all difference...

New-

I too rebounded into a new marriage. It wasn't perhaps the smartest decision for me emotionally because I was still healing but I do not regret it.

My love is incredible with my H. I have never ever had a relationship like I have with him. Just to go to sleep with him every night and know I will wake up with his arms around me is such a blessing!

Well, if this helps, this is exactly how I felt until about two months ago. And then when G, aka Ms. Right, popped into my life, it all changed. So, it's good to feel happy and content on your own, but just realize that you should never say never - just when you feel you'll always be alone, the right guy might pop into your life and make you eat your words <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Uh-oh, I forgot to write that I do 'never say never'... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Really, I'm aware of that... you never know... (and, for my initial is also G, moreover is twice G, might be lucky too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)
And if you think That Mr. One I (now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) think doesn't exist to change my mind pops into my life... well... I guess eating my own words would be with a great apetite. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, hey, hey!! You guys keeping our thread alive, or what? I love it!

coachswife,

You know, I regret some things about the beginning of our relationship A LOT. I don't regret marrying him, but I regret the decisions I made to get to him. I have done my very best to make amends with those I harmed, and as I've said until you all wanna bop me -- I am blessed.

AGG and Miss-Belonging,

You guys continue your dialogue... I'm enjoying just being along for the ride.

And AGG (((AGG))) - platonical hugs to you, buddy, for bringing the testosterone into an estrogen-heavy thread! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As a second wife, married my first time, both of us with children (his 8 and 2 when we began, mine 7), we have been married for almost 8 years now, have had 2 more children. We have had custody from the start. Had I not have married him, his kids would have missed out on a mom who was stable, reliable, and always there to raise them and care for them. No, I can't "replace" their "real" mom, but, at least I fill a role as needed. We have had struggles, as all families do at times, but, we have survived, and live as normally as most. I have a marriage that has not seemed to leave the honeymoon phase yet. Even first time marriages usually can't say that after 8 years. What I am now encountering is my son who just turned 15 has begun to resent my husband verbally repremanding him, infact claims to hate him, with a passion. My husband has an overbearing way of dealing with the kids when they have done something wrong or to make him mad. He has a way or a tone to his voice that makes the kids shrink. I can't explain it. The kids can't stand up for themselves or argue or defend themselves or their actions when he comes down on them. I don't know what to do. Life has been so sweet with our marriage, now the issues have begun. Both other parents are involved, including my husband's x's x-husband. We all get along pretty well. Our kids are the main concern, even though our marriage is our top priority. Can someone tell me where I can look up all the abbreviations that are used on this site?

I'm the second wife and I don't see any problems. My husband has wonderful relationships with his first wife and I really love his son and he loves me.

Jen,

Welcome to MB! I hope this will help you.

Most Common MB Acronyms:

MB = Marriage Builders

WS = Wayward Spouse ("betrayer")
FS = Faithful Spouse ("betrayed") some use BS = Betrayed Spouse
WAW = Walk Away Wife

OW = Other Woman
OM = Other Man
OP = Other Person
OWH = Other Woman's Husband
OMW = Other Man's Wife
OPS = Other Persons's Spouse
OC = Other Child (S's and OP's)

S = Spouse
SO = Significant Other
W = Wife
H = Husband
DW = Divorced Wife or Dear Wife
DH = Divorced Husband or Darling Husband
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad

D-Day = Discovery Day
DV-Day = Divorce Day
A = Affair
EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
EMA = Extra-marital Affair
MLC = Mid-life Crisis
MM = Married Man
MW = Married Woman
SF = Sexual Fulfillment (in context)
EN = Emotional Needs
LB = Love Bust(er)
POJA = The Policy of Joint Agreement
SAA = "Surviving An Affair"
HNHN = "His Needs, Her Needs"
G&T = "Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"

Relationship Acronyms:
DD = Darling Daughter
DS = Darling Son
MIL = Mother In Law
SIL = Sister In Law
FIL = Father In Law
BIL = Brother In Law
GP = Grand Parent(s)
SM = Step Mother
SD = Step Daughter
SF = Step Father (in context)
SS = Step Son
BF = Biological Father/Boyfriend
BM = Biological Mother
GF = Girlfriend
STBX = Soon To Be Ex

MB specific Acronyms (CB MB forum members)
CB = Coined By
PTC = Patience, Time and Consistency (CB & NSR... for Plan A to work!)
P.U.S.H. = Pray Until Something Happens (CB & NSR... see Inspire (20))
TDNT = That Do Nothing Thing (CB & NSR/RMA)

Generally accepted Acronyms:
BTW = By The Way
IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
IMVHO = In My Very Humble Opinion
LMAO - Laughing My *Rump* Off
LOL = Laughing Out Loud
ROTFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor Laughing My *Rump* Off
EOM = End Of Message

Many others can be found at Alphabet Soup Explained
Please note:? usage of some of the Alphabet Soup acronyms are frowned upon due to lack of proper decorum?

Divorce/Custody Acronyms:
CS = Child Support
CP = Custodial Parent
CPS = Child Protective Services
CSE = Child Support Enforcement
DCW = Dept. of Child Welfare
GAL = Guardian Ad Litem
FOC = Friend Of the Court
MSOL = Marital Standard Of Living
NCP = Non Custodial Parent
PAS = Parental Alienation Syndrome

-Alphabetical Order-------------

A = Affair
BF = Biological Father/Boyfriend (based on "context")
BIL = Brother In Law
BM = Biological Mother
BS = Betrayed Spouse... some use FS = Faithful Spouse
BTW = By The Way
CB = Coined By
CP = Custodial Parent
CPS = Child Protective Services
CS = Child Support
CSE = Child Support Enforcement
D-Day = Discovery Day
DCW = Dept. of Child Welfare
DD = Darling Daughter
DH = Divorced Husband or Darling Husband
DS = Darling Son
DV-Day = Divorce Day
DW = Divorced Wife or Dear Wife
EA = Emotional Affair
EMA = Extra-marital Affair
EN = Emotional Needs
EOM = End Of Message
FIL = Father In Law
FOC = Friend Of the Court
FS = Faithful Spouse ("betrayed") some use BS = Betrayed Spouse
G&T = "Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"
GAL = Guardian Ad Litem
GF = Girlfriend
GP = Grand Parent(s)
H = Husband
HNHN = "His Needs, Her Needs"
IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
IMVHO = In My Very Humble Opinion
LB = Love Bust(er)
LMAO - Laughing My *Rump* Off
LOL = Laughing Out Loud
MB = Marriage Builders
MIL = Mother In Law
MLC = Mid-life Crisis
MM = Married Man
MSOL = Marital Standard Of Living
MW = Married Woman
NCP = Non Custodial Parent
OC = Other Child (S's and OP's)
OM = Other Man
OMW = Other Man's Wife
OP = Other Person
OPS = Other Persons's Spouse
OW = Other Woman
OWH = Other Woman's Husband
PA = Physical Affair
PAS = Parental Alienation Syndrome
POJA = The Policy of Joint Agreement
PTC = Patience, Time and Consistency (CB & NSR... for Plan A to work!)
P.U.S.H. = Pray Until Something Happens (CB & NSR... see Inspire (20))
ROTFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor Laughing My *Rump* Off
S = Spouse
SAA = "Surviving An Affair"
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SD = Step Daughter
SIL = Sister In Law
SF = Sexual Fulfillment (in context)
SF = Step Father (in context)
SM = Step Mother
SO = Significant Other
SS = Step Son
STBX = Soon To Be Ex
TDNT = That Do Nothing Thing (CB & NSR/RMA)
W = Wife
WAW = Walk Away Wife
WS = Wayward Spouse ("betrayer")

I too am enjoying and LEARNING alot from this thread...I just don't have much to contribute as I'm not remarried nor even in a relationship right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anyhoo, just had a quick question for NBII....are you now married to your OM? I ask for no other reason than pure curiousity.....feel free to tell me to buzz off <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

DW

DW,

I met my (now)H after the divorce was filed but before the divorce was final -- so -- some would say it was my second affair. Legally, it was, since I wasn't yet free to date... and morally, I suppose it depends on your morals.

The OM mentioned in my sig line was a one-time hop-in-the-sack (I will never say we made love) TERRIBLE CHOICE and my (then)H would not (could not) forgive me. He began another series of affairs (he'd had several during the marriage) and our marriage ended.

We both (my ex and I) see the harm we caused the marriage, the children, and each other. Had I not left him (which in the end, I did) I don't know that he ever would have realized... he has since admitted to more wrong-doing than I ever even knew about in our marriage.

It's interesting to note that my H does NOT think that we began as an affair, no matter how you look at it. Both our exes had moved on (or had someone moved in) and to him it was just a matter of legalities and time.

I, OTOH, have felt great guilt and shame over the years. This is why I say "Do what I say, not what I do"... And rebounding into another relationship so soon was not a wise choice.

Immovingon,

Thanks for all the hard work on the acronyms!!! Very cool.

Hello and welcome to MB, jenstermor and bryeek!

jen,

Problems with teens... yuck. Everyone has them. It's a hard time of life for the kids and the parents, to be sure!

Do you feel that your H is too tough on your son? When you say "the kids shrink" away from him, what does that mean?

Just kidding a bit... to refresh the day, or bump up your thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Refer your H to anger management classes.
ASAP!

And, some other ones, related to dealing with teenagers... reading some books about it too...

(Please do not tollerate that.)

Hi everyone,

Just a short note to let you know that (after Tuesday) I will probably be off the internet for awhile, or longer... but will be back as soon as we're able. If all goes well, we won't have a break in our service at all...

...but, frankly... lately, things haven't been going too well... so I'm being pre-emptive. Just in case...

I want to thank each and every one of you for your candor, care and humor throughout this thread. It has been a wonderful MB-experience for me, and I hope to all who read it, as well.

Bless you all...