NB,

He actually didn't quit - he was laid off, and remained unemployed for two and a half years, during some of which time the unemployment rate in his field was close to zero. It was obvious something was really wrong when he insisted that he was not qualified to do anything that paid more than minimum wage, which was certainly not the case, since he has a college degree and numerous graduate credits, not to mention years of experience and talents in several areas. No, I don't see any sign of the man I once knew - if anything, I think he has gotten worse over the years. His relationship with the children has deteriorated considerably. I think he is very unhappy about that, but it is easier just to ignore the children than to think about it. When I was worried about something when we were together, he used to tell me, "Just don't think about it," and apparently he has no trouble doing just that.

Hi TR, Hi Nellie,

Thank you both for your responses...

TR,

I don't know what to say to what you've written. I know that every situation is unique, and that we all struggle with varying difficulties... children with problems is especially heartwrenching, and I speak from experience on that one.

Especially in the beginning of the marriage, it's (unfortunately) trying out different fits to see which works best... and in the case of a second marriage in particular, it's all new ground to cover. I remember wondering these kinds of things:

Do I hug sk's? Should I? Do I ask if I can hug? (By the way, I believe you NEVER touch a child without permission)

What do they call me? (My name, of course! LOL)

Do I say they're my sk's or that they're my H's children? Does it matter?

Do I offer to do things Mom would do -- cut hair, put hair in braids, mend hole in jammies?

Do I help with homework? What if I'm wrong (which in math, is sure to happen!)?

Am I on the emergency card for schools? When the school calls, which they have occasionally, do I talk with sk's and see if they're okay? Do I forward message to dad at work? Do I let Mom handle it?

And not relating to the children, I had something interesting happen yesterday that fits nicely here... a family gathering with H's family... met one great-uncle who hadn't seen my H for over 10 years... said he'd been at our wedding. Of course he meant my H and his first W's wedding. Was I uncomfortable? A tad. But that's the kind of thing you don't think about... until it happens.

Lots of questions... things I only learned about AFTER I became a second wife.

Nellie,

Okay, thanks for explaining.

I understand denial. I call it my box. I put it under the bed, metaphorically, when I can't deal. I think that's pretty common, though very unhealthy and unhelpful.

I'm sorry things aren't getting better.

Here is what I do-

I called all of my children- sk's included "my children" in conversation. At times I may reference to my husband, "My two" when I'm talking about who goes where when.

I let him deal with his exwife- who is always nice to my face when he's around but can't stand me if he's not around (she left him so it doesn't make sense)

I deal with my exhusband when it comes to issues with the kids.

I prefer to be the one that does dr's appts, haircuts etc. If I can't do it then I prefer my exhusband does it and doesn't leave it to the gf.

I think about how I want to be treated as the bio mom and I try to treat his exwife like that. I even served her birthday cake and ice cream at his birthday party because she has two smaller kids and her hands were full.

If my SS is uncomfortable giving me a hug or talking to me on the phone, I don't push it.

I encourage my kids to like their dad's gf. As long as she is good to them there will be no issues with me, providing she doesn't overstep her bounds. A couple of weeks ago she had too much trimmed off my daughter's hair and I called their dad and explained that was not her role. I made myself pretty clear I think.

I have no problem with him bringing his GF to recitals, games etc and I feel free to bring my husband to those things.

As far as finances- we have joint accounts. His house became my house when we married, just like his debts became mine. That's part of being married to me. He carries life insurance on him for his son, I carry some on me for my children, and we both carry some on each other for the other spouse.

coachswife,

You sound like you have your head on straight, that you have handled things maturely and with grace. Good for you!

So, what do you attribute this to? Do you think it was something inside you all along? Did you make an effort towards harmony?

Great post, and thank you for sharing!

Well, I'd like to take the credit for being naturally levelheaded but since I was the one who wanted the divorce all of that comes much easier to me than it would to someone whose spouse has left them for the OW!

I wanted to do the best thing for my children. Period. To me that means I separate what a jerk he was to me and focus only on the fact that he is a good father. I offered up joint custody, even though since then I've come to regret it once or twice. The other day my son said, "I know why you and dad got a divorce" and I said, "Why?" He said, "Because he's mean and yells alot" So, even though alot of people would have taken the chance to leave that mark in his mind- especially concerning how he's said he is going to talk about me to them when they are older, I explained that neither of us were perfect, we both made mistakes and that was not the reason we divorced. I also told him that when he was older and had adult relationships he would see just how hard they are to maintain over a long period of time.

It brings to mind to me at times the two women fighting over the baby- and it is said to cut the baby in half and the true mother says, "No, give it to her" If it is going to affect them negatively or hurt them further then I don't want to do it- I have enough guilt over leaving their father period, much less inflicting more damage.

As far as being nice to my husbands exwife? Well, I take pity on her actually. She had it made when she was married to my H- he's a good husband, romantic, loving, selfless. It just boils down to the fact that she didn't love him like she should have. Since I left my first husband, I can relate to how she felt a bit. Don't condone her tactics or the way she tries to manipulate his parents- which could be a whole other topic- but I can understand her a bit. Now she is remarried to the OM- and was pregnant by him before she divorced my H. They have two small children in addition to SS, money is TIGHT, whereas it wasn't when she was married to my H. I think the grass is just not as green as she thought it would be. Also, I was raised by a woman alot like her, so her manipulation tactics and the fact that she really thinks she's smarter than the rest of us makes me laugh inside. For instance, she had my H depositing her child support check for her. Now, why couldn't she go to the bank like everyone else?? If he didn't deposit it, she asked his mother to do it. Can you imagine the gall? So, to prevent all of that I told him that we should mail it and she could go to the bank on her lunch break just like everyone else has to do. I actually laugh at some of the stuff she does, because it doesn't bother me at all. I'm going to be nice to her as SS mom and as long as she's nice to me we'll get along fine.

When we first met, she came to pick up some playground equipment my H had in the yard he said she could have FOR HER NEW KID! We were dating. She ignored me and wasn't going to speak to me. I was like, "I'll be darned if she's going to ignore me in what's going to be my driveway" and I marched up and MADE her speak to me and stuck my hand out until she shook it. She wouldn't make eye contact but I think I got my point across and if nothing she respects me.

It's been very very hard to be nice to my exhusband. Especially in the beginning when I would get all these e mails from him cussing and ranting and raving. He even had the nerve to e mail me before I married my H- who wasn't the reason we split up- and tell me my marriage had a 25% chance of making it! I would get these e mails or he would do something and it would be all I could do not to write back a terrible reply. But, I knew that I could keep all of that and use it in court if we had to go back. I didn't want him to have ANYTHING on me. So, every one of my replies is "We need to try and co parent these children effectively. We are divorced, let's just try to be good parents" you get the picture. Now, I have all these irrational e mails from him- and he has nothing but level headed replies from me!

See, I'm not just another pretty face! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Coachswife,

Thanks for another thoughtful response! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have some thoughts myself about what you've written, but I don't have the time to write them out. I will be back later (tonight or tomorrow morning), okay?

Have a great day!!

Cool! That's great.

I was joking with a friend the other day about my husband's exwife's appearance. When we see her, she is in sweats with her hair all over the place and no makeup. When I see my exhusband and his gf I make it a point to be turned out to the T. I thought it was just a rule. We joked that husband's EXW just didn't know the rules which is "I will always be better turned out than my exhusbands new wife or GF!" HA!

Hi all. I know there are a lot of consistant people here on the forums, so I'd like to introduce myself a little. I'm new to this forum, but not to MB. I started posting back in 2001 on the EN forum when my now XH started his affair. I posted there for a couple of years. The EN forum just became too painful, so I stopped posting. I've come back a few times since that time mostly reading and trying to learn.

I came back today and found this thread very interesting and thought provoking.

I'm guess I'll just start writing what comes to mind hoping it'll relate well to this subject.

I'm not yet a second wife, but my boyfriend and I have been living together for about a year and a half and talk often about marriage. It's very difficult for both of us being the BSs. Me once, him many times. We each have a son from our previous marriages. My son is almost 8, his just turned 13. Blending families has been one of the hardest things I've ever done because I strive to do my best to make it work. To not let his son feel like an outsider because we live in the home I had before I met his dad. That he knows I have his best interests at heart and that I look out for him. He tells me that he loves me and calls my parents nana and grandpa. For the most part, things go really well. The hardest times I have is when he's hard on my son. When he's a bit mean or selfish or critical. My son is very active, hyper, and my SOs son is very mellow. There are a lot of things that I think my SOs exW does very wrong, but I don't ever talk about those things with his son. I'm a very involved mom...cub scouts, ice hockey, school, camping, fishing, bike rides, teaching him to ride a motorcycle, walks, legos, reading, etc. My SOs ex isn't involved at all. It's made his son somewhat learn to isolate himself. I understand that he's really had no choice, so we've done our best to integrate him in the activities we do as a family. My exH is even good to him. I'm sure my story's not unusual, but is very uncommon in a lot of ways.

My exH moved in with OW after she left her now exH. They lived together for about 3 months before he moved back out. She has 4 kids from 3 different fathers and the kids are all pretty unruly. This was VERY hard on my son. His dad forgot that in a lot of ways, your kids do have to come first. That we can't get so tangled up that we become so distracted and lose sight of our kid's needs. Thankfully, my exH figured out that he was making some huge mistakes and moved out and my son is now doing very well with most things. The divorce is still hard on him, but he's able to talk to me about how he's feeling. I don't bash his dad to him and fully support their relationship. I've paid for them to do small events together and there are times during the year where his dad will accompany us to events or holidays. There are also times where it is off limits for his dad to be there. Even though my son had a family that encompassed his dad and I, there is a new family forming now that needs to be able to establish what it will look like. Did I just end up rambling. :-)

coachswife,

I am bothered by the fact that you mentioned "laughing" at your H's exwife three times, and pitying her once. I don't know if she "respects" you (I doubt it) but I certainly would have no respect for someone who laughed at me behind my back.

Well… grrr… sometimes I hate computers.

In trying to avoid being on the internet for hours (we have dial up) I copied and pasted (or attempted to do so) your responses (Coachswife, JD and Nellie) onto a Word.doc. For some unknown reason, I’m unable to do it. I’ve crashed my computer, been thrown off AOL (I know – the dino of ISP’s <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) and lost everything I’d done to that point.

In an “everything happens for a reason” way, perhaps I’m meant to simply say the following:

Coachswife, JD13 and Nellie: Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

There were some things I wanted to say about what you’d written specifically. Now I can’t remember what they were (haha – old mind, irked by the computer issues, **poof** thoughts gone! LOL).

However, as a general response to everybody or nobody in particular, I’d like to say this:

You may notice that only women have written on this thread. Why?

Is it because men could care less what a second, first H, or any other man thinks of them? Do they feel concerned (or possibly threatened) in the same ways that women do? Why * isn’t * there a Co-DaDa’s site and/or movement afoot?

When my H meets up with his first W and she has her boyfriend present, my H never worries about what he’ll wear or how he looks. He doesn’t tell me how her bf looks, either. In fact, when I asked him what he looks like, my H said this: “Tall”. (hahaha… men!)

When I met my ex’s prior girlfriend last year, I scoped her out. I can tell you what she was wearing (a oatmeal colored linen cropped-pant suit), what color her hair was (blond, probably Clairol #30-something. I should know!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />), and other sundry items (toenails painted raisin red, nice skin, womanly figure, nervous smile)…

I didn’t look my * best * when I met her, but I did make sure I had on something other than sweats (LOL) and had washed, brushed, and shined myself up a bit. God only knows what she said about me to her friends…. If anything… I mean, I’m pretty sensitive, so sometimes I wonder if it’s just me that notices everything so much.

Just jabbering… and thinking out loud… wondering if it’s more a woman-thing than anything else. I know someone will tell me if I’m off-base… you always do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Nellie2-

To be clear, I don't want to be this woman's friend. I actually don't think she respects the person I am, more of the fact that I don't put up with her crap like everyone else does.

Are you projecting a bit of your anger at your own situation at me for some reason??

I wasn't the reason their marriage ended- he met me a good year after his divorce from her was final. Add that to the fact that she cheated for 18 months before she left him for the other man and was PG by the OM before their divorce was final.

I cannot help but laugh at her actions, because if I didn't they would make me furious. She's manipulated his mother repeatedly for years just because they have a grandchild and has been horrible to them. They have been incredibly generous with her and with the grandson. This was a woman who lied about having a inherited birth defect that she passed on to her own child! The stories of the things she's done would be too numerous to list but trust me, many people here would get a good laugh out of it I'm sure. Sometimes people do things so ridiculous you have to just laugh. To prevent her from causing stress in me, I laugh and let it roll off my back.

I don't know your situation but can you honestly say you've never talked negatively about say the OW if there is one or the exwife or previous GF?? If you can, well, my hat is off to you!

NB,

"Is it because men could care less what a second, first H, or any other man thinks of them? Do they feel concerned (or possibly threatened) in the same ways that women do?"

Ummmmmmm.....I'm glad you brought this topic up NB. I had a very interesting Sunday when EX saw BF for the first time. Boy was it UGLY.

EX showed up at YD's competition 1 hr after it started and saw that BF was sitting next to me, still he proceeded to sit 1 row down from us. My 3 kids were sitting all around Mike and I. YS went to sit by his dad, got bored after 10 minutes and went back to sit by BF. They were playing around and OD was joking around and talking to BF. I could tell EX was not happy to see how his kids were interacting with BF.

During the award ceremony I stood by EX and we both were taking pictures. We spoke briefly about the competition. BF was playing with YS and keeping an eye on all my kids since EX & I were trying to take pictures.

When it was time to leave everyone was walking to my car, the kids wanted to get their things to take to EX's house. BF and OD were walking ahead talking and laughing about a piece of fireball she had taken and he wanted it. Then I heard a voice say, "That's not your job!" I turned around and said, "Excuse me?" EX said, "Disciplining my daughter is not your job, you are not the parent, you're just her (me) current BF!" BF turned around and said, "Do you even know what we are talking about?" EX said, "I heard you telling her (me) that my daughter stole a fireball and you're giving her a hard time about it!" I then said to EX, "You don't know the whole story, both of them were joking around, there is no disciplining going on, perhaps you need to work on your insecurity issues." I don't remember what EX said but I heard OD screaming at him to stop and then she told him how she hates him and that she doesn't even want to go to his house. BF then just walked on ahead, I knew he was angry and did not want to say anything to EX with all the children there.

We got to my car and I unlocked the car for kids to get their things, OD locks herself in the car and refuses to leave. EX told me that it was all my fault because I brainwash the kids about OW and that's why they don't want to go to his house. I told him there was no brainwashing, kids did not like OW because she was my friend and broke up their parent's marriage. I told him that he really needs to focus on his insecurities. EX said why should he be insecure, since I am with an old, ugly bald guy. Hmmmmmm, I was not talking about that insecurity, I was talking about his relationship with his kids. But now, I see that he is jealous of BF.

So in my case, EX is very concerned about BF. But for the most part, I think you are correct with that comment about men.

coachswife,


I know I can't. I wish I *were* bigger than that, but I've been very NOT-compassionate at times. I won't even tell you what my kids have said about my ex's gf's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ... *especially* the one (OW) that ended the marriage. He kept her around for two years and I heard plenty - and listened, and joined in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Not my proudest moment.

Immovingon,

Interesting. I stand corrected!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

One thing about my sitch, is that my ex hasn't met my H. He used to hang up the phone if H answered... and I mean as recently as last year! He wants nothing to do with him. However, in the last six months or so, he's softened a bit. He says he'd shake his hand... which is a good thing since our oldest daughter is getting married this year and I've been scared spitless about the two of them actually meeting.

All that to say, my ex hasn't felt exactly threatened, but he's been angry... because he realized (too late) what he threw away (wonderful me). He's said as much to me. One of the reasons he hasn't married again (it's been five years since the divorce) is because nobody will put up with him. He isn't (wasn't) an easy man to live with...

My situation is very weird....my exH thinks my BF is wonderful. He too realized what he threw away and has finally come to realize that he made a huge mistake. He also can see how wonderful my BF is. He'd be happy as pie to hang out with him, but my BF wants nothing to do with that. My BF is friendly and cordial with my son's dad on occasions where we're together, but it does make my BF uncomfortable in a lot of ways. He's said that there are times where he feels like he's dating someone's GF when we're together. My exH isolated him from everyone when he met OW and now that that's over, he's got no one. It's honestly really sad, but he made his bed. I'm very fortunate in that my BF understands that parents often have to compromise a lot for their kids. I'm the den leader for my son's cub scout den and we have weekly meetings. Both my son's dad and my BF are at the meetings. We have a huge 4th of July celebration in my town and on the years that I have my son, we'll often invite his dad so that he can share it with my S, but we don't interact much. As years pass, it all seems to become so much easier. I don't want to have to struggle with my son's dad on stupid things, so the amicable relationship has definitely had its rewards.

Yes, JD, as the years pass, things get easier, don't they? (Except for in Nellie's case, which I HOPE is unique!)

It's so neat that they can be at scout meetings and things together... just wonderful, for your son, most of all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (And I'm sure, as you've written here, a good thing for you, too!)

As the years have passed in my situation, my ex has realized he made some big mistakes in the things he told his family and our friends. While I worked very hard to keep him included in my family (he was Uncle D for my niece's entire lives, why should those precious girls lose him?)... he cut me out of his familoy with a sharp knife. He regrets it BIG TIME. The last thing his father (my ex-FIL) said to me was: You will always be our daughter. Then I never heard from them again. Lately, my ex's family has been telling my ex and kids that they want my address to write. It remains to be seen if they will, but I appreciate the thought. I would be happy to keep in touch and not have to worry I'll be shunned at my daughter's wedding, for example.

Divorce just sucks... and everything surrounding it. Even under the best of circumstances (by that I mean: striving for compassion all-around, after the fact). But I strive to make things the best they can be... but then again, I'm a dreamer... and a conflict-avoider (yipes)... I want peace. I don't know that it can be accomplished in all cases... and wonder if it's realistic, anyway.

Thanks for the nice reply NB. The efforts I put forth with my exH is FOR my son. Not for me, not for looks, etc...for my son. We had an awful and ugly divorce. He had an affair, he left, he stole $20K from a line of credit, I paid alimony and still pay child support even though I have my son more than 1/2 time. I pay his child care, scout fees, all clothing, field trips, etc. I have many many reasons to be hateful and ugly to my son's dad, but how does that help my son???? It doesn't. It was difficult when my son would talk about the OW in good ways. He knew I didn't like the OW at all, but I would tell him that I'm glad she's good to him and that he likes her. That it's ok for people not to like each other, but to respect people as individuals. I supportted (to a degree) his relationship with her and it ended up being the best thing I did. I kept my son's trust and he can talk to me about anything.

My BF, son, BF's son and I all went on vacation. My son doesn't get to see his grandparents on his dad's side very often at all. I spoke to my BF about driving a little extra to have them be able to see my son. My BF was comfortable doing this and my son's grandparents were delighted! My exH's parents LOVED my BF. I still keep in contact with my ex FIL via email. I send them links to pictures we take of vacations, scouting events, ice hockey, school events, etc. I know that my ex in laws know their son made a huge mistake too. I'm sorry that you got cut out of thier lives. So many lives are affected by divorce. My parents loved my exH like a son. My dad and exH were best friends. Because of all the ugliness that ensued from the divorce, my parents could no longer love him like they did. They still miss him, but he caused too much hurt to them. Not just because of the A, but the choices he made and the cruelty he became so able to exert. I'm not sure he can repair that relationship, and I know that kills my exH. My family LOVES my BF now. Can you maybe write to them first? Maybe they're not sure how you'll react...I know once I made the first contact, they jumped all over the opportunity to stay in touch. I mostly talk to my ex FIL, but my ex MIL and I never really got along well anyway. It seems like by the statement your FIL made regarding you always being their daughter, he'd like to keep contact but isn't sure how it will go over or how to really initiate contact or even what to say.

I belive all things can eventually find their peace.

I have too went through being removed from my exhusbands family although one of the last things they told me was "We're not taking sides, we love you both" So much for that!

I think my exhusband respects my current husband a bit- he's a teacher, he's good to the kids, his parents are good to the kids. I think for that reason alone he doesn't mind him as much. I was separated when I met my husband but he didn't meet my children until after the divorce was final. Once DD asked to talk to my husband on the phone when she was at her dad's. We were having a party at our house but my husband made a point of going into the bedroom to talk to her on the phone. My exh was furious! Told me I should have lied to her and told her he wasn't there. That is was disrespectful to him. I calmly explained to him that he should be glad that he is good to the kids, it could be much worse and that neither of us should encourage the kids to not like the person in the other person's life. Besides, if I would have done that and she cried then he would have had something negative to say about that too.

All my kids love my H, too... he's a good man, cares and listens... and sadly, they all have issues with their dad and his choices (especially his gf choices) that have bled into their relationship with him. They love him, but they don't respect him.

Not to sound like I think I did everything right (I DID NOT, not even close)... but maybe *because I did not* I worked very hard to maintain their trust and love. My ex didn't.

I have written to my H's parents, JD... about four years ago... and they wrote back, but when I wrote again, they didn't. This year I sent a Christmas card. My ex's sister, who I have not heard from or written to specifically, asked for my address at Christmas this year, so I'm hoping a relationship can be re-established. However,I have always been very cognizent of the truth that blood is (indeed) thicker than water. When I told my (then)IL's that their son was cheating on me (in 1987) with not just one, but 3 OW, they were consoling, but basically said that 'boys will be boys'... it was never mentioned again, although my MIL did ask my (then)H to take me to a party where she knew OW #1 would be. When he refused, she stayed with me. So she was trying to be supportive in the only way she knew how. But she'd never "talk smack" about her son. (To use a phrase my kids use <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.)

It's hard. Leaving my former in laws was probably harder than leaving the marriage. Still makes me sad. I can only hope that over the years as they see that I continue to be a good mom to the kids, they can move past their bitterness towards me.

hehe... I think it's the "Let's discuss" in your subject title. If you had "Help!" or "fix me", they would come running. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />