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#1566882 01/18/06 01:43 PM
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50% blame for the state of the marriage??? Sorry, don’t buy that. I have clearly discussed my needs till I was blue in the face. Not meaning to sound mean…..but that sounds like psycho babble.

I personally disagree with that...it is my opinion you are 100% responsible for your state of YOUR marriage...
and your wife is 100% responsible for the state of HER marriage...

spouses that put 100% of their efforts in to their marriages and spouse have this amazing thing happen...

they end up living happily ever after....


ARK,THANK YOU!

I have been here for over 2 years now and I FINALLY see someone else write what I too have written and feel so strongly about.What a relief.This whole business about creating "environments" and "atmospheres" and taking 50% reponsibility for a marriage gone bad that you may have had NO part in has ALWAYS bothered me so much.How can people say you are 50% responsible.For WHAT? In my case,I was not perfect by any means but we had a darn good marriage,full of love and family and happiness until my WH decided one day that he wanted to be a bachelor again and "see what it's like to have sex with another woman" HIS words.How am I to be blamed for that new life change?? There are many other's here with similar stories who SHOULD NOT be blamed for the changes a WS goes through that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MARRIAGE! It's THEIR issue!

I truly think that part of the total shock is that you think you are going along well and the marriage is secure and you are unaware the WS is going through some change in their life that they keep secret and then the roof caves in.In james's case,he claims to have expressed himself many times to his wife and it may be true and in that case,there were APPROPRIATE wasy to handle his boredom,dissatisfaction,loneliness,anger,depression,whatever,than cheat.But I am sure he won't last long as I can tell he is very defensive and probably still in the A or still affected by it to the point he feels vindicated.

Anyway,I just wanted to mention that since as long as we keep giving credence to excuses like unmet needs or whatever as a "reason" to cheat there will never be change until people start looking *within to problem solve.

Gotta get to work now but thanks for listening.

O


BW(me)40 DDay 10/11/03 Divorcing 'The Reformer'- enneagram type 1 ~Let Higher Minds Prevail~ --------------- ~Life isn't complicated,we make it that way~
Octobergirl #1566883 01/18/06 01:47 PM
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OCTOBERGIRL!!

THANK YOU RIGHT BACK!!!!!!!!!!

I sooo admire your persistance in almost always welcoming every new poster (BS) to this forum

You are always most likely the first one board to throw out the tow rope...

this board is soooooooo blessed with your presence...

have a GREAT day!!!!!!!!!!

ARKie

ark^^ #1566884 01/18/06 02:03 PM
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I'm wondering what the both of you have to say to those of us who REALLY DID HAVE WONDERFUL HUSBANDS who we took for granted,ignored and disrespected?

This certainly is absolutely NO EXCUSE for my H's choice for having an A...

However, OUR MARRIAGE was ABSOLUTELY VULNERABLE because of my disregard of of his needs.. It becomes CLEARER AND CLEARER to me every day how SELFISH I was whereas he is now AS GIVING OR MORE as he used to be. I had to do a lot of changing in order to become a better wife, mother and person.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Last edited by mimi1254; 01/18/06 02:09 PM.

I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1566885 01/18/06 02:09 PM
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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />bad bad bad bad women.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

to whom are you asking mimimimimimi

ark^^ #1566886 01/18/06 02:14 PM
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Arkie;

I was JUST WONDERING what you would say.

You speak so eloquently..so poetically...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1566887 01/18/06 02:25 PM
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I'd say go out and read dr lauras the proper care and feeding of husbands...

I hate women who spend time villifying their spouses...

when I meet those women...yuuuccckkkkkk

can't stand women who complain about the WAY their husbands load the dishwasher.....yuuucckk. I'm happy any time I don't have to do it.....

took me a while to equate my husbands need for admiration tied in to his work ethics in meeting the needs for this family...and how much pride he gets out of providing for us...I used to give him such grief about that stuff...

now I tell him all the time how admirable of an employee he is....

I have been watching the show everyone loves raymond...except that no one loves raymond in my opinion...
they all treat eachother sooo very bad...

they put eachother down.
they physically act out
they use sex as a weapon...

I find myself watching it just to continually solidify my opnion...each episode...fight after fight conflict after conflict...
never any tenderness
never any admiration
never any respect..

two people ordering and demanding of eachother...that show makes me very very uncomfortable...and I have made my hubby watch it with me as well a few times....just to see if he agrees....

wives putting down their husbands\
husbands putting down their wives...however it serves them well in whatever the situation....


what do you say mimi...if you spend years breaking down the one man you should want to build up...where does it get you...or him...

ARK

ark^^ #1566888 01/18/06 02:47 PM
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Of course, you didn't let me down..

Of course, I loved your response...

OMG, I'm making these.....too

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I'd say go out and read dr lauras the proper care and feeding of husbands...


LOL..I've highlighted almost every page of that book..WOW I would be a poster child according to Laura on the "IMPROPER CARE AND STARVATION OF HUSBANDS"...

However, Ark, I love what you say about BOTH partners giving 100%. The more I give to my H now, the more I get, the more he gives, the more he gets...GOING AROUND IN THIS WONDERFUL CIRCLE....

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what do you say mimi...if you spend years breaking down the one man you should want to build up...where does it get you...or him...


Well..everyone here knows where it got US..my H and I...

Sad to say..I can't bear to watch EVERYONE LOVES RAYMOND..Now I clearly know that you truly understand why...

Last edited by mimi1254; 01/18/06 02:48 PM.

I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1566889 01/18/06 03:51 PM
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I have to agree on Everybody Loves Raymond...it used to be a favorite of mine, pre-DDay...Now I just think they are heading for an A...maybe the writers will take it in that direction someday when the public gets tired of listening
to it. I can't watch it anymore...

The problem is I hear people every day complain about their spouses in the same manner...

I will definitely check out Dr. Laura's book...


BW (Me) 39 FWH (41) Married 14 yrs DS 4/2000 DD 12/2002 DD 8/2005 PA 1/05 - 9/12/05 D-Day 10/13/05 Status: Trying to rebuild
MAMAFISH #1566890 01/18/06 10:51 PM
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Mimi, girl, just want to tell you that you have amazed me. Good work on your part there!!

And I'm right there with you girl.

Ark, what say you about a wife that did not like the way her husband chewed his FOOD! yup, that was meeeeee! I was nuts at the time.

I have the most wonderful husband in the world now and boy is it easy. He's out of town at the moment on business. I just got off the phone with him. He had a really nice honor today and I told him how proud I was of him. I can just feel him glowing when I tell him that now!!!

Life is grand. It can't get any better than this!!!

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail. ~ Kinky Friedman
Susan #1566891 01/19/06 09:38 AM
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Life is grand. It can't get any better than this!!!


ME TOO!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1566892 01/19/06 09:49 AM
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Hi Mimi,

Even though we have not seen eye to eye in the past,I will just give you my viewpoint on what you asked. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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I'm wondering what the both of you have to say to those of us who REALLY DID HAVE WONDERFUL HUSBANDS who we took for granted,ignored and disrespected?


Well the most obvious and common sense response for me is to seek out counseling.Yes you may have taken your H for granted,been terrible and ignored him.BUT,that doesn't give him carte blanche to go out and seek *inappropriate ways of resolution to marital and /or personal problems.IMO,we are so hung up on sex in this country(and not in healthy ways) that it's no surprise that many women and men are getting involved in A's as a way to avoid/escape their problems.It feels good at the time but has long lasting and sometimes devastating effects.

What your H should have done if he was feeling poorly,taken advantage of or was not happy in the marriage was to:

A) Talk to you about it
B) seek counseling
C) sought a legal separation or D if there was no resolution after X amount of time.

There are appropriate ways to deal with eachother and issues in marriage and Adultery should NEVER be an option.Your FWH was way wrong to do what he did no matter what *you did or didn't do prior.

It's great that you are seeing what kind of person you were in your marriage and with your FWH and maybe even with friends and family.We all have the capacity for change and to be better people and live a life closer to God.It's a journey.But what has always troubled me about your posts is that you appear to take blame for what he did.You just can't say that someone(WS) is 100% responsible for making the choice to cheat and then turn around and say well,I was 50% responsible for the "state" of my marriage that may heave encouraged/lead/drove my S to an A.That IS taking blame for your H's A.Why else bring up the state issue unless it is to suggest that it had some part in the WS's choice to cheat?

What you suggest is that if you didn't ignore his needs,take him for granted and were not disrespecting him,he MAY not have cheated.You just don't know that.No one does and it's a super high expectation that no one has rights to except the INDIVIDUAL.As many of us here understand,the A is a problem with the WS.Period.It's their way of handling their issues: boredom,insecurities,misguided ideals about marriage,loneliness,depression,inactivity,low self esteem,whatever that is,is the crux of the problem,not that you didn't wear VS lingerie to bed,or talk to him for hours,or make him 5 cups of coffee each day or have sex 8 times a week,etc.A lot of needs people suggest they may have can not only be inapprorpiate for another to try and fill but may also change on the whim of that person.Or if said needs are what that individual wants,they refuse to do without it despite the marital discord it may cause and the S cannot live up to those expectations then again,counseling may help and a D may even be on the horizon.

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However, OUR MARRIAGE was ABSOLUTELY VULNERABLE because of my disregard of of his needs.. It becomes CLEARER AND CLEARER to me every day how SELFISH I was whereas he is now AS GIVING OR MORE as he used to be. I had to do a lot of changing in order to become a better wife, mother and person.


Your M was vulnerable because your H not only failed to protect it( good times and in bad) but he also chose to seek out harmful and selfish ways to feel better outside your marriage.It's great you are working to be a better person.There is not one person on this Earth who couldn't improve themselves one way or another.But no one stays the same and we get bored.Even in the happiest of marriages,we have to be careful how we interact and behave in times of crisis or change.It's having a healthy outlook and **coping mechanisms in place to handle whatever comes your way.

I have had this type of discussion with other's and we always end up going round and round.But it's my view that no state,environment or atmosphere EVER warrants a spouse making the choice to cheat and if we all agree that it's 100% their fault in that respect,then we cannot therefore blame states or anything else but the WS.

**It comes down to PERSONAL VALUES,BELIEFS,MORALS AND INTEGRITY(CHARACTER) of the individual.EVERYONE of us is faced,every day,with challenges that we need to make decisions about,some very simple,other's very serious.HOW you choose to deal with that is what is important and says a lot to me about who that person is.

Thanks for listening.If you care to debate,I'm all for it.

O

P.S. I also wanted to add: I too see a lot of discord and direspect of others,not just in marriage,today.I get rude behavior just when I go to the department store and they treat me like I am a waste of their time when the customer is what keeps the company alive! I don't know if for some,just because they have fallen into a lengthy marriage that they feel it's ok to be disrespctful of your S.To me,the same amount of value and respect and love should always be there for that person you married.Sure every marriage has it's ups and downs but the respect for the person and the sanctity of marriage should always be protected and nurtured.It's never a "done deal" and maybe people forget that.It's perpetual.From the day you say "I do" to 30 years from now.

Last edited by Octobergirl; 01/19/06 09:56 AM.

BW(me)40 DDay 10/11/03 Divorcing 'The Reformer'- enneagram type 1 ~Let Higher Minds Prevail~ --------------- ~Life isn't complicated,we make it that way~
Octobergirl #1566893 01/19/06 10:04 AM
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O Girl:

Thanks for your response.

Right now, on this busy morning for me, I just want to tell you this.

I DO NOT ACCEPT BLAME FOR MY H'S A!!

He doesn't see me as the cause either. Of course, he said this when he was foggy.

If you talked to him today, he would agree with you that he should have made one of those choices that you listed. Didn't happen..you know what happened..

But he is truly sorry...

HE OFTEN TELLS ME HOW SORRY HE IS THAT HE DIDN'T MAKE ONE OF THOSE CHOICES AND HE EVEN SAYS HOW WRONG HE WAS...

He says he can't even face how truly WRONG and BAD he was and that if I really knew the whole story that he doesn't feel that I could love him anymore..so I believe him..I know all that I really need to know right now...

I only accept BLAME for doing a POOR JOB at being his WIFE for several years..

Please know that I am not assuming that every BS here was as awful as I was...

I'm willing to acknowledge MY OWN FAULTS though...

If I don't acknowledge my faults and frailties, how can I continue to grow into becoming a better person?

Later...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
Octobergirl #1566894 01/19/06 01:11 PM
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I have a bit more time now so I will talk back at cha... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You said:

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Yes you may have taken your H for granted,been terrible and ignored him.BUT,that doesn't give him carte blanche to go out and seek *inappropriate ways of resolution to marital and /or personal problems.

As I said in my previous post, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS STATEMENT and SO WOULD MY FWH..today, that is, not while he was a foggy WS...

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IMO,we are so hung up on sex in this country(and not in healthy ways) that it's no surprise that many women and men are getting involved in A's as a way to avoid/escape their problems.It feels good at the time but has long lasting and sometimes devastating effects.


Scratching my head on this one, my H's affair was not about "sex"..he was starved for ADMIRATION AND AFFECTION..I don't think "sex" with the FOW was "all that..." He kept wanting to cake-eat with me for SF...MY EXPERINCE, though...may or may not be the same for others here...I think you and I may have already had the SF discussion..I did what I had to do is the way I look at it now...

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What your H should have done if he was feeling poorly,taken advantage of or was not happy in the marriage was to:

A) Talk to you about it
B) seek counseling
C) sought a legal separation or D if there was no resolution after X amount of time.


I agree with you about this, too.

TALK: He says he talked and I didn't listen. I don't recall this. When I mentioned this to Steve Harley, Steve asked me if my H had to talk about HIS NEEDS when we first began dating. He asked me if I SENSED what he needed. STEVE SAID THAT ROMANTIC LOVE IS LIKE THAT..I really learned from that and do that to this date..I use my intuition a lot to pick up on what he needs..When I do this, it makes him almost purr...I remember his smile when I have his dinner ready when he comes home. That gives me the signal that I need to do that again...He also does the same for me. I usually get coffee from B&N but was busy and didn't get the chance to go today. He asked me before lunch: "Are you going to get your coffee?" I said I didn't have time. I DID NOT SAY: "Since you are out that way, can you pick it up for me?" He came by awhile ago, though, and brought me some coffee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

COUNSELING: We both have done this, individually and together...none has been as helpful as the coaching sessions with STEVE HARLEY..that's why I'm such a fan of his..

LEGAL SEPARATION: My H has lots of excuses for why he didn't do this..I'm not too sure that he ever wanted this..I'm now thinking that he WANTED ME BACK..the ME THAT I WAS BEFORE I BEGAN BEING THE "UNLOVING" WIFE... Remember we've been together 30 years..most of our time together has been GOOD AND HAPPY....

The AFFAIR was a BIG MISTAKE..He got caught up in something that he couldn't get out of..HE GOT HOOKED....Don't ever take that first WHATEVER(SNIFF?) of COCAINE....

Did you see the movie UNFAITHFUL? When the woman looks back in regret over having gone to the OM's apartment..THAT MOMENT IN THE FILM CAPTURES WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY HERE....

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Adultery should NEVER be an option.Your FWH was way wrong to do what he did no matter what *you did or didn't do prior.


I totally agree with this!!

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But what has always troubled me about your posts is that you appear to take blame for what he did.You just can't say that someone(WS) is 100% responsible for making the choice to cheat and then turn around and say well,I was 50% responsible for the "state" of my marriage that may heave encouraged/lead/drove my S to an A.That IS taking blame for your H's A.Why else bring up the state issue unless it is to suggest that it had some part in the WS's choice to cheat?


I don't take blame for what HE did. I think you misinterpret that. I take blame for not living up to my RESPONSIBILITIES AS THE WIFE IN THIS MARRIAGE. I ONLY TAKE BLAME FOR THAT. PERIOD.

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What you suggest is that if you didn't ignore his needs,take him for granted and were not disrespecting him,he MAY not have cheated.You just don't know that.


You are right. I can't know for sure BUT I really don't think that MY HUSBAND would have. He had lived such a MORAL LIFE..was such a GOOD MAN..really, really GOOD AND DECENT..that's what attracted me to him..HE IS THAT MAN AGAIN..the MAN that was involved in that AFFAIR was not MY H...That's just the way it is, O GIRL..It is what it is...

I'm not saying that it was JUST ME to blame but I was part of it. It was many different factors..the fact that the OW worked where she worked..the fact that my H was depressed because of things going on in his own life..his age..the season..MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS..I only can accept MY PART and I am only able to work on and to change MY PART...Again, I ONLY ACCEPT THE BLAME FOR MY OWN CONTRIBUTION..and HE HAS TO ACCEPT THE BLAME FOR HIS...and he does...

And now..as ARK says..we are both giving 100% to OUR MARRIAGE....

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As many of us here understand,the A is a problem with the WS.Period.It's their way of handling their issues: boredom,insecurities,misguided ideals about marriage,loneliness,depression,inactivity,low self esteem,whatever that is


I think you and I may view marriage differently. I see it as TWO WHOLES coming together to make a TEAM.... So if my H is involved in an affair..has depression...boredom...whatever..I have a problem, too. WE FACE LIFE'S STRUGGLES TOGETHER..Why were we so out of touch that I couldn't sense this? That's why today..we try to maintain TRANSPARENCY..OPENNESS AND HONESTY...

You and I agree more than you think...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1566895 01/19/06 01:24 PM
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Hi Mimi,

I too have to get to work in a bit but I will address what you said in brief:

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I DO NOT ACCEPT BLAME FOR MY H'S A!!

GOOD! There always seems to be a "but" with some people though.It should stand alone.

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If you talked to him today, he would agree with you that he should have made one of those choices that you listed. Didn't happen..you know what happened..

But he is truly sorry...



GOOD! If anything,he hopefully *now understands what routes to take should you neglect him again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> and vice versa I might add.

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HE OFTEN TELLS ME HOW SORRY HE IS THAT HE DIDN'T MAKE ONE OF THOSE CHOICES AND HE EVEN SAYS HOW WRONG HE WAS...
GOOD again.I am glad he gets it.


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I only accept BLAME for doing a POOR JOB at being his WIFE for several years..
That's good too.As long as it isn't related to the A.I was not a perfect W either,and I was more than willing to go through all the hoops and MC we needed to save my marriage too but my WH chose to continue on in his A.So I had to make decisions about my life too.But we had more than the usual obstacles to any recovery so it was not really meant to be I think.

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If I don't acknowledge my faults and frailties, how can I continue to grow into becoming a better person?


I'm not saying you shouldn't.We all should .But in the context of being better individuals who come to the marriage as such because that is what we are.Marriage is not a fusing of two people into one so there will always be work to do when you are with someone as much as you are(usually) in a marriage.I find that work fun actually.But again,the choice to cheat stands alone.

Ok,have a good day~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

O

Edited to add: OOPS I just saw you reposted so I will try to get back to you too later on.

Last edited by Octobergirl; 01/19/06 01:25 PM.

BW(me)40 DDay 10/11/03 Divorcing 'The Reformer'- enneagram type 1 ~Let Higher Minds Prevail~ --------------- ~Life isn't complicated,we make it that way~
mimi_here #1566896 01/22/06 07:10 PM
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Hi mimi,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner,had a busy few days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Scratching my head on this one, my H's affair was not about "sex"..he was starved for ADMIRATION AND AFFECTION..I don't think "sex" with the FOW was "all that..." He kept wanting to cake-eat with me for SF...MY EXPERINCE, though...may or may not be the same for others here...I think you and I may have already had the SF discussion..I did what I had to do is the way I look at it now...


I do think it's "part and parcel".If it wasn't then there wouldn't be any sex too.It would all be just emotional.Sometimes it is if there is a distance issue or money factor,etc.To me sex is another way of escaping pressures at home and personal problems.My WH also tried to tell me that it "wasn't about the sex" but then,why was he having it? it finally came out that,since we were eachother's first lovers( I had previous intimacy with boyfriends but not all out intercourse)he wanted to see what it was like to be with another woman.Of course all the secrecy and newness and illicitness of it all made it seem monumental I am sure but in reality if we all had a chance to "start over without guilt and responsibility of pretending we weren't married" sure it would be exciting to some degree.My WH also wanted to have sex with me too after I found out and he wanted to reconcile.He seemed so loving and true, I was really confused.But I was so in love with him and wanted him home with me that I did have sex with him.It didn't last long though before he felt homewrecker pulling his strings again too.


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Did you see the movie UNFAITHFUL? When the woman looks back in regret over having gone to the OM's apartment..THAT MOMENT IN THE FILM CAPTURES WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY HERE....


Yes,I did see it and interestingly,it was somewhat close to the time just before my WH cheated.He wanted to know my thoughts about it since I watched it alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


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I don't take blame for what HE did. I think you misinterpret that. I take blame for not living up to my RESPONSIBILITIES AS THE WIFE IN THIS MARRIAGE. I ONLY TAKE BLAME FOR THAT. PERIOD.


This is where we go round and round.Saying you take blame for not living up to your responsibilities as wife to me is vague.And,even so,it has no bearing on the Infidelity.It just doesn't IMO.You could have been living up to your "responsibilities" but it still could have happened.It was your WH's issues and problem solving behavior that lead him to where he was.Say,for example,one responsibility is making dinner.Some nights you just cannot because you are sick or so tired,does that mean you deserve to be cheated on? I know you would say no but it's that slippery slope of blame.What if another responsibility was to admire your WH(as a need) and you didn't do it as often as he liked but then,he never told you or he may have told you but it turned out that's life's needs interfered with that so you may not have done it as often.Again,is it deserving of being cheated on if you couldn't meet that need as much? NO.

I had many discussions with other's about this: there may be certain people whose "needs" outweigh being with their spouse/GF,BF/SO.And if so then the choice is made to try and compromise and if that can't be done,the person may have to leave the relationship if it turns out to be more important than being with that person(and if counseling doesn't work).I am sure this happens a lot BUT,cheating is not part of the options.If you are married both parties had responsibilites to protect that marriage.My feeling is that you and I see differently on the EN's importance,do you think? I don't put much value in it since there are many of us not only going without "needs" ourselves and not cheating but that we are also being darn good spouses and it didn't prevent our S from cheating anyway.


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You are right. I can't know for sure BUT I really don't think that MY HUSBAND would have. He had lived such a MORAL LIFE..was such a GOOD MAN..really, really GOOD AND DECENT..that's what attracted me to him..HE IS THAT MAN AGAIN..the MAN that was involved in that AFFAIR was not MY H...That's just the way it is, O GIRL..It is what it is...


It may be true mimi that your H would not have cheated IF you had met all needs 100%.Who kows for sure but I always feel in your posts that you refuse to believe the possibility that if you met all his needs then he could have still have cheated.I remember clinging to the idea after our second major false recovery that I was doing so good with my En's filling and that it was working that that was all I had to do to keep him home for now.It wasn't.He was still very torn with so many demons,not just homewrecker.

I think most,if not all,of our spouses were "good" or else we wouldn't have married them right? Our WS's made very poor,selfish and harmful choices.Your H was always there,he was just making very bad decisisons based on his OWN DESIRES AND ISSUES.To DENY,that he was not fully informed and aware when he made the choice to cheat is not acceptance.They ALL know what they are doing when they cross that line,you step off the cliff or step back.As I have said before,unless you have some kind of mental illness or organic brain disease or injury that precludes one from making appropriate choices then the responsibility rests SOLELY with the WS.


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I think you and I may view marriage differently. I see it as TWO WHOLES coming together to make a TEAM.... So if my H is involved in an affair..has depression...boredom...whatever..I have a problem, too. WE FACE LIFE'S STRUGGLES TOGETHER..Why were we so out of touch that I couldn't sense this? That's why today..we try to maintain TRANSPARENCY..OPENNESS AND HONESTY...


No I am not sure we disagree as much but: I also believe in being a "team".I thought my WH and I were too.BUT,your WH(mine too) made a UNILATERAL decision to solve problems in the way they did.That is not teamwork (there is no *I* in team!) It's great that things can be differet NOW and I hope your FWH will confide in YOU more often than withdraw or find some homewrecker or seek counseling/help.I wasn't as fortunate but then maybe it was divine order.I know I couldn't have gone on much longer being unhappy with his traveling(then making the choice to seek out counseling).We were becoming less and less like a married couple with him making career choices that took him away,part of the red flags I saw on my horizon.Anyway.....


I am glad things are going well for you.I hope they stay that way.

O


BW(me)40 DDay 10/11/03 Divorcing 'The Reformer'- enneagram type 1 ~Let Higher Minds Prevail~ --------------- ~Life isn't complicated,we make it that way~
Octobergirl #1566897 01/22/06 08:03 PM
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Saying you take blame for not living up to your responsibilities as wife to me is vague.And,even so,it has no bearing on the Infidelity


I could be specific but that would take a long time. I did not meet my H's ENs. I know the difference. I am doing that now...I just can't agree with you that it has no bearing on Infidelity...Dr. Harley explains this eloquently in all of his books. No need for me to do that here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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It was your WH's issues and problem solving behavior that lead him to where he was.Say,for example,one responsibility is making dinner.Some nights you just cannot because you are sick or so tired,does that mean you deserve to be cheated on? I know you would say no but it's that slippery slope of blame.What if another responsibility was to admire your WH(as a need) and you didn't do it as often as he liked but then,he never told you or he may have told you but it turned out that's life's needs interfered with that so you may not have done it as often.Again,is it deserving of being cheated on if you couldn't meet that need as much? NO.


I repeat. My H was wrong. I did not at all deserve to be CHEATED on. Yes, it was a major problem of HIS to choose to handle our marital problems by being unfaithful. I specifically did not meet the EMOTIONAL NEEDS as well described by Dr. Harley. I don't see "cooking dinner" as meeting an EN per se....Being sensitive to what makes him happy (having dinner ready) is meeting a need or better said is a means of making a LOVE DEPOSIT. I can't say this any clearer. NO I DID NOT DESERVE TO BE CHEATED ON. YES I DID NOT MEET HIS ENs. He may or may not have had an AFFAIR if I had met his needs. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT HE DID AND IT IS NOT AT ALL SURPRISING GIVEN THE NATURE OF OUR MARRIAGE...

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My feeling is that you and I see differently on the EN's importance,do you think? I don't put much value in it since there are many of us not only going without "needs" ourselves and not cheating but that we are also being darn good spouses and it didn't prevent our S from cheating anyway.


I think one's beliefs are based on their experiences. I STRONGLY BELIEVE IN THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ENS because it fits my situation exactly. Focusing on ENS, as counseled by Steve Harley, for sure led to our marital recovery. I'm not questioning your life experience, October Girl. I have not lived it. I am sharing what has definitely been true for ME. Hopefully, someone can use my experience to create happiness in their own lives...if they feel that my life situation and strategies fit for them...

O Girl. I am so happy and so much "in love" with my H. Life is wonderful for me. I pray that you will find the happiness in your life that I have found in mine...regardless of whether we ever agree on this or not..I WISH YOU LOVE...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by mimi1254; 01/22/06 08:04 PM.

I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.

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