Safety is # one

If you are not safe ... take care of that priority first.

I normally feel safe around him even when he's acting like a jerk. Yes, he's done some pretty crappy stuff but I don't fear for my life.

He's just a bully for the most part. Yeah, he's gotten a bit physical but mainly he's just a foul-mouthed jerk when he gets mad.

I'm still saying that I don't deserve it but, I have made him pretty mad. Doesn't justify it.

He's just a bully for the most part.

He's a bully for the most part.

He's a bully.

I posted that way so you can see what you do with facts you dislike.

You insert words to minimize a behavior.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

My biggest problem is I don't know how to make a decision and then stick with it.

I think about the fact that he had an A first yr of marriage and I think "why would I put up w/that"? What made me take that and keep going as opposed to some people who would have run to an attorney's office to file?

When he moved my SS in and out a dozen times and allowed his kids to "rule the roost" why did I stay in that? There are probably lots of folks here that would say "Not only no, but h*ll no".

When he moved the SS, wife and baby in, I finally said "no" and I left. But now I have no backbone and I'm doing the waffling thing again. He is now having another A and I'm waffling again.

How are some people able to take and take and continue to stay and some people finally say "no more".

I know that I justify his behavior and you make that easy to see by the way you put emphasis on different parts of the sentence.

I'm just really confused. Some people seem to overlook some pretty crappy stuff that has been done to them. I know that's what I'm doing and I don't have a good way of dealing with this, sorting through the emotion and making a decision.

I know I'm probably driving everyone here crazy and I thank you so much for the continued response. I really need the feedback. I have no one else to share this with (and I can't think of a group of folks better to share w/than those who have been through the fire).

L2S,

I am not as articulate as the others helping you on this site. You should listen to them.

Here are some things I learned from being in an abusive (mostly verbal/emotional) M/relationship:

It doesn't matter what you did/didn't do in the past or to your H, or what you do/don't in the future -- the abuser will continue to abuse you and will continue to find reasons/excuses for the abuse until things change.

Things won't change until you exit the abuse cycle. Your H may or may not change - you cannot control that - but you can control whether or not you subject yourself to more abuse. Setting boundaries and saying - "No more" to name calling, disrespect, etc is the first step in helping yourself, your H and your M.

While you are in the abuse cycle, you will feel: worn out, confused, indecisive (waffling) and low. You've asked why have you put up with these things & why are you indecisive now? I think the answer is that your self-esteem has taken repeated blows over the years to the point that you are put down, kept down, confused, unsure of yourself and struggling to exit the abuse cycle.

I really, really, really wish I could do a better job of articulating this to you. I think I know exactly how you are feeling -- you understand what people are saying to you, you know that the situation is not good, and yet you have trouble taking action that might put a permanent end to the relationship. I understand how hard it is to break out of the cycle, but breaking out is not about giving up on your M and going right to D - you can decide that later. Exiting the cycle is about ending the abuse, so that you can start to think clearly and heal, and that you can give yourself, your H & your M the best chance possible to be healthy. Your H may come to his senses and get help, he may not. Either way, you cannot continue to tolerate disrespect & abuse. Please read the book I recommended. Wish I could help more.

N

Hi, L2S, hope you're doing well, today...I know it's kind of a "one day at a time" thing. Hang in there!!

bump...

Neverthesame, Jennifer 68,
Thanks.

Yeah, it really is a one day at a time kind of thing. I'm glad I've got folks who understand that i can talk to.

I think the hardest part is the roller coaster ride. He's not consistently any one way. His moods change from day to day. It's kind of like the old joke that some parts of the country have about their weather. "If you don't like the weather stick around. It will change momentarily".

He goes from being a nasty, vulgar-mouthed jerk to allowing me to catch a glimpse of the man I fell in love w/and married to a total stranger who acts so nonchalant about everything that I think I have a better relationship with the man that lives three streets over and I don't even know him.

I don't know what he's thinking. I don't know if he has decided that there is no hope. I don't know if he has moved on in his mind. I just don't know.

The biggest thing is I don't know why I care. I keep second-guessing everything. I keep doing the 'what-ifs': you know, what if I've waited too long and lost him, what if we remain together and nothing changes, what if we divorce and I realize too late that I love him and I made a mistake, what if we don't divorce and I realize I've made a mistake, and on and on and on ad nauseum.

I really, really don't like where I am right now but I don't know how to get past it.

You know, this stuff is really so hard and draining on you.

I wish I could be as strong, as focused, as self-willed as so many of you sound. I sound so wishy washy to myself.

Two-three weeks ago I was angry and didn't care if he called or not. Now, something in my poor brain/heart has switched and I'm waiting for the phone to ring.

I don't know what's going on or why. I'm really not sure which way to go.

Hi, L2S. Some of us may "sound" focused and self-willed, but it's easy to sound that way, when using a keyboard to talk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Truth is, we have ALL been in the state you're in, at one time or another. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You will have ups, downs, back and forths, NORTH, SOUTH, EAST and WEST! Honey, it's all part of the process! You're normal! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes, I wish there was a switch to our emotions, or at least a control guage! Could you even imagine how much different our lives would be without emotions? Our decision making would be completely based on what we THINK instead of what we FEEL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (I'm not sure that's good or bad! Probably a little of both.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


I think a little exercise would be interesting, such as writing down all of the decisions we have to make, and then draw a line down the middle of the paper, and label each side, one side is "Heart" and the other side is "Head", and see what the drastic differences would be between the two answers, based on the same decision. It would tell us how in sync our hearts and minds are! And maybe then, we could figure out how to bring the two together (heart & mind) and balance it out a little. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'm off on ANOTHER rambiling session, here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Don't know how this keeps happening! Hang in there, and I'll continue to pray about this! Take Care...

Jennifer

Good afternoon all my "cry-on-your shoulder" friends!!! Thank you for being there for me.

Well, WH couldn't spend time w/me yesterday evening 'cause he had promised SS to go see him in another town. Said he went but SS wasn't where he was supposed to be so he ended up driving around until around 11pm.

Can we all in unison say "liar, liar, pants on fire?!?!?!"

I went to the OWs house. 3 guesses as to who was parked in the driveway. I parked back up the street out of site. I walked down to the house twice to make sure it was our vehicle. Yeah, it was.

I called cell phone probably 20 times, left a text message and a voicemail message. Guess he finally got the hint that he better leave. He never even saw me. I didnt' have a camera w/me. I was tempted to confront by ringing the doorbell but didn't. I think I would have died a little more inside if he had taken up for her in front of me.

He called me as he was pulling out of the driveway and told me where he was, NOT!!!! Made up a lie about how heavy the traffic was on the road he was on.

I met him at our house and stayed the night. Had a couple hours conversation about his suspicions of me and who he thinks is an OM in my life. He sat there and lied over and over again about the OW and their relationship. So, here's the questions:

1) What do I do?
We're supposed to go to dinner this evening. Not sure if he is going to see her before. Would like to go by there and see but that's pretty risky. Will take camera if I do.

2) Do I confront him w/the evidence I do have? He knows that I know about the Nov cell phone bill. He has hidden Dec and reg account on line so I can't access. I have two saved voicemails that he doesn't know I have.

3) Do I take the cell phone bill and voicemails to her boss (she works in counseling center) and ask him his advice? He is a Christian marriage counselor!! If I did anything that made it hard on OW I believe WH would do everything in his power to hurt me by telling about my past, taking things from the house that are mine, etc.

4) Do I take same to church she attends and play for senior pastor?

5) Do I just say "enough is enough" and let go? Let him get on w/his life and try to put mine back together?

6) Do I try to push the marriage counseling issue? If yes, my thought was to sched appt w/counselor OW works for and say what a coincidence; must be God 'cause there's someone there w/OWs name. Would this blow up in my face? Would I somehow be tipping my hand? He is a very analytical and suspicious person.

I'm really confused at this point as to what I need to do.

Month after month he has cursed, threatened, etc. Asked me to do things w/him but I would refuse because of the questioning, arguments, nastiness, etc. Now all of a sudden he has things planned every evening and has no time. I'm sure that's because of OW. He has stuff planned that I cannot easily check on so that makes it really convenient for him to be w/her and me not know it. If he says he's going to SS or SDs, I'm not going to call them and ask if he's there and he knows it.

Has male friend in another town about 30 minutes away that he goes to but this is someone he met after we separated. I don't know him/his wife and I've never been invited so it's easy for him to say he's there but not really be. He can answer the cell from anywhere.

Advice, please.

L2S,

Not trying to BEAT this point into your head, just tapping lightly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...I think I gave you a little suggestion in my post right before you posted...

I know you're hurting, and I think the contact you're having with him now, is only adding to your pain. You're struggling with what to do to wake him up and make him see what he's doing. Honey, it's not happening. And it won't with the way things are, right now. And the fact is, even if you were successful in bringing the 2 of you back together, you have some other serious issues to be more worried about, not just the OW.

I think you have to somehow toughen up a little, and put a serious NC in order, at least for now. Think of it as something you HAVE to do, not WANT to do. Gain some of your self respect back. Once you start respecting YOURSELF, and not allow this type of behavior any where near your vicinity, then the respect of others will follow.

This is just my take, L2S. I truly am not intending to sound like a heartless person, just giving you the outside view point from where I'm standing.

Love yourself FIRST! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I think my head's so thick, it takes more than tapping to get through!!!

I'm not looking for someone to pat me on the hand and say "There, there." I'm looking for a way to fix the mess I find myself in.

When you say "serious NC in order, at least for now" do you mean asking him not to contact her or are you saying that I should not be in contact w/him?

I'm so wrapped up in all this I don't know which way to go!!

Sweetie, I'm talking about your NC with him. We cannot control who he chooses to have contact with. You are reacting to his actions, instead of taking your own action. I'm sure you would be surprised to HIS reaction to YOUR actions, if you took a FIRM stance with your beliefs. Just by standing up and saying, "This is what I believe in, and will stand by to the end, with or without YOU!, TAKE IT, or LEAVE IT!" Then back it up, with your actions. This will show you mean what you say, and NOT to be toyed with!

So, exactly how do I implement what you are suggesting?

Don't call?
Don't go by home?
No contact w/him of any kind?
Don't worry about who he's w/or what he's doing?

DD goes to house every day after school. So, pick her up but don't go in?

What do I do to preface all this? Tell him that I love him and would like a chance to rebuild our marriage and then leave it at that? A step toward that would be that I would have to leave my church or he would have to come to church w/me.

I'm rambling here too. I just don't exactly know how to go about this. Is this considered plan B where I just disappear and see what happens? I haven't even told him that I know something is going on.

Boy am I obviously confused.

Just by cutting off contact. Just politely let him know, "I'm sorry, I think I need a little space right now, to clear my head, I'm sure you understand." Then take the space to do so. I know you would have to rearrange alot of things, in order to do this, but L2S, it would be worth it. And it's not a lie, you DO need space, because you cannot clear your head and think, with the way this has been going.

At first, your intentions of doing this would be to just see what happens, with the hope that it will save your M. But you never know, you might just clear your head enough to realize, you actually LIKE your space and the peace. It is possible to become accustomed to it, by accident!

It happened to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, I've had that, sort of. There has never been a period of any significance of no contact, just 2-3 days here and there. And, those times were peaceful but, apparently, those were the times that he chose to start seeing OW. Wife out of sight, out of mind, I guess. He kept telling me he was lonely but kept being a jerk at the same time and I had no desire to go home. So, here we are now.

I have spent as much time as I could w/him this week; I miss him. Or, it could be that I have been awakened by the fact that he is no longer asking me to come back and it may be b/c of OW. So, now I find myself in a situation where I am trying to minimize the amount of time he has to spend w/OW and it's driving me crazy. It's obviously making him mad. I know why I'm doing what I'm doing but he doesn't know that I know.

Geez, some of this stuff sounds like a soap opera plot.

So, I'm confused now by what to do. I don't like the man he has become. He doesn't like the woman I've become. I know he's having an A, either EA or PA, not sure.

Do I write him a letter (easier than trying to talk and make all my points) and tell him that I love him and would like the opportunity to work on our marriage via MC and see if we can save it?

Do I tell him that I have reason to believe that the relationship with OW is not platonic and that he needs to stop seeing her if we have a chance?

Do I tell him that I will be going to another church until a decision is made about what we are going to do?

Advice, please.

No, L2S, you need to tell him, NC right now. I know that it is painful, but it has to be done. And NOT just those times when he's just in between visits with you and OW. He needs to know you're not available, even when he's NOT taking time for OW. THOSE will be the times he will be forced to notice the changes, when he has nothing to do, or OW isn't available at the moment. So when SHE'S not available, neither should YOU be!

You are trying too hard to control what he's doing. You have to let that part go. Don't try to control HIS actions, or demand anything. That will just cause more anger and resentment. Act like you don't give a rip what he's doing! THAT will effect him more than anything else you've ever tried! Once you appear to NOT care, is when things start happening. (Whether you want it to, or not) Believe me on this one.

If any counseling takes place, it should just be for you, alone, to deal with the co-dependency issues in front of you. You don't want to drag that around with you, whether you stay together, or not.

Bottom line...Let go of control...it will not work. Guarenteed! Take a time out...

Again, just my thoughts on this. This is the advice I have to offer, even though it might not be what you're looking for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I have done this to some extent and I truly believe that that is when he started the A. Basically, I was w/my DD at family member's home and he was left alone. He got lonely. I wasn't there so he turned to someone else.

He kept telling me that he couldn't handle the lonliness and I did nothing about it. Granted, he was being extremely nasty about the church thing but I wouldn't budge. So, he found OW to occupy his time.

Now, I am trying to figure out if the whole thing is just too late.

You said:
Once you appear to NOT care, is when things start happening. (Whether you want it to, or not) Believe me on this one.

What exactly do you mean? Things will start happening whether I want it to or not? Meaning he will start calling me or he will kick the A into high gear?

Actually, we've gone back and forth on all this stuff. When I have distanced myself he would start trying harder. Now though he's just gone and I really have to push for time. I believe he is heavily involved w/OW and my attempt at spending time w/him is cutting into their time. So, if I back off isn't he just going to spend more time w/OW?

I'm so confused as to how all this works.