What I meant by that comment of whether you want it to or not, meaning he'll probably take on the challenge of trying to contact you, and pulling it all back to the way it was, (is now). And it would be up to YOU to resist this.

L2S, are you blaming yourself for his A? I can tell you, if you weren't around enough for him, before, and he was feeling lonely, he did not HAVE to handle it by finding someone else, to fill the void. There were many other ways to handle how he was feeling at the time, and that was NOT the answer. It's just an excuse, to shift the blame on you for HIS actions, and to make you feel guilty. That let's him "off the hook", so to speak. If his excuse wouldn't have been that you weren't around enough, then it would of been some other lame excuse. You just "happened" to provide him with something he could use. Otherwise, he would of addressed the "problem", at the time, in a different manner, if he was truly concerned about the marriage.

Again, just my take...you can tell me to kiss off at anytime, and I will <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, but I hope you don't... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

L2S,

I hope I didn't run you off...I truly mean well when I post to you, not to offend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hope all is well with you...

Jennifer

You didn't run me off. Heck, you guys can't get rid of me that easily!!!!!

We actually spent some of the weekend together (outside the time he spent w/her). Yesterday, he went to friends (I guess) out of town and then to SS and SDs till late evening. I left him alone. He called me.

He is expecting me to "come clean" regarding my feelings for OM. I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear to keep this going for now. I want him to tell me about being at her house Friday night but I know he won't. He has no clue that I know. He doesn't know that I have the VMs OW left him while he was out of town.

Saw him earlier. He had MD appt and I went w/to see what MD had to say so I would know what was going on. Anyway, talked about us and how hard it would be to put things together. Said he was willing to go to counselor.

Would it be crazy to make appt for us with the counselling center where OW works? I want to hear his excuses for not wanting to go there when I tell him where it is.

Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know. It really makes me angry that he sits there being Mr. Pompous acting as though he is so above board w/everything. He accuses me of having feelings for the OM that I won't admit to him but then lies to my face by telling me that it has been weeks since he was at OW's home and then just for business related reason.

I want so desperately to tell him what I know, have heard, have seen but, don't think right now is the right time to show my cards.

Advice?

Advice, please.

Do I tell him what I know about what he has done/is doing w/OW or do I keep my mouth shut for now?

Do I sched appt w/MC? If yes, do I sched where OW works to see what his reaction is? At some point the VMs will tell him (if I tell him I heard them) that I knew OW worked there. Will that do more harm than good?

He says he's willing to go to MC together or separate. There's lots to work through but..... who knows.

Would this be a waste of time? I'm really grasping at straws at this point and don't really know which way to turn.

We're not talking about living together again at this point, just counseling to see if we can work through major issues first.

Is this bad or good? He is still in contact w/OW. He doesn't know that I know as much as I do.

Do I tell him what I know?

Anybody out there.........

Need advice.

H was w/OW last night but told me another story. She left a VM that I got to before he did.

Do I tell him that I know what's going on and get everything out in the open or do I keep playing this cat and mouse game and get more proof of what he's doing?

I know most of you have told me to go NC and just leave him alone but, if I do that, it just gives him more time to b/w OW. How does this help?

I'm truly confused about all this and really don't know which direction to take.

If I find him at OWs house again, do I confront him there?

Please advise.

Okay folks.

I thank you all more than you will ever know for the advice you've given me. Have I used all given to me??? No.

Do I need more? Yes.

I really need to know where to go at this crossroads.

Do I move forward with divorce and forget any thought of trying to work on it?

Do I tell him what I know, confront OW w/what I know and go back home and try to make it work?

I do love him and know that there is enough left in me at least to work with.

Thoughts and advice, please.

Don't give up on me yet. I really, really need you guys.

***I know most of you have told me to go NC and just leave him alone but, if I do that, it just gives him more time to b/w OW. How does this help?***

Every BS thinks this way at first. You think you're just handing him to her on silver platter and then graciously stepping out of the way so they can scr*w each other's brains out in peace.

But that's not what happens.

Right now he is getting his Emotional Needs met by two women, and he is very much enjoying this no matter what he says.

If you suddenly drop your end of the load by going to Plan B, the OW is now forced to carry the whole load by herself.

Think she can do that?

Your sudden vanishing will throw a monkey wrench into Fantasyland because now it's just two proven liars and cheaters trying to meet each other's ENs. All you have to do is sit back and wait for the crash.

***Do I move forward with divorce and forget any thought of trying to work on it?***

If you don't want a divorce, then don't get one. If your husband thinks he wants one, then force him to do all the work. Don't lift a finger. You are under no obligation to help him dismantle your family.

***I do love him and know that there is enough left in me at least to work with.***

There is now, but there won't be any love left for him if you remain in this unholy threesome much longer. Plan B is to protect your feelings for the WS so that he's not able to destroy them completely.

Please look into Plan B. There is a lot of info on this site. Look up at the top under "Articles."

Good luck.
Mulan

**** If you suddenly drop your end of the load by going to Plan B, the OW is now forced to carry the whole load by herself.
Think she can do that?******

I'm not sure. He and I are separated x almost 2 years. That time has been incredibly rocky. I'm not sure what she can/is willing to actually do for him other than give him a warm, inviting atmosphere to land in.

I help w/alot of stuff around the house and with business paperwork. Don't know if she could/would do that but there are others who might step in.

Financially, we've left everything the same as it was the day I left. So, I pay all the bills and help with all financial upkeep of the home.

So, if I did Plan B should I tell him first that I am willing to work on the marriage which would mean no contact with OW, counseling, a higher level of accountability than what is current, etc. Do I tell him that if he is not in agreement with the above then I will take steps to hand all financial stuff over to him, and help only w/mortgage since I expect 1/2 equity?

Basically, do I give him an ultimatum? We work on it or I'm out of the picture in every way until he makes his mind up?

I really need the advice of someone who has been where my WH is now.

We've been separated x 2 years. He believes I had A w/guy at church. Did not but did have some talks w/this person which were construed as such.

My WH has tried to get me to come home but each time it was with a "if you come home I'll change" kind of promise. Never, "I've changed x and x and x and I'm ready for you to come home".

So, we've had a battle of the wills and neither of us have budged.

Now enter OW. Person he met through our business. Started in Nov. Suddenly hiding cell phone bills, etc. I've found out enough to know that he is at least spending way too much time w/her for her to be "friend" he says she is.

I've told him recently that I want to work on M; want to go to MC. He has agreed to MC but no longer is agreeable to me coming home right now. That is probably 'cause it would cut into his OW time.

When we separated (I left) everything financially stayed the same. My $ still goes into account. I pay all the bills. I help w/some laundry, groceries, our business paperwork, etc.

So, guys, what do I need to do?

Do I need to give him an ultimatum that we are going to work on it, NC with OW, we go to another church together or I go "away", take my $ and start separate account and he can handle everything until he decides what he wants to do?

I've already been to an attorney and have draft papers but haven't moved forward with anything. WH isn't pushing the issue.

A big part of me feels like an incredible fool for even considering a reconciliation w/WH. WH had A in first year of marriage and we have lots of other issues like stepkids but I do love him and believe we could work things out if (and this is a big if) we both were giving it 100% at the same time.

Need advise, please. What now?

First have you exposed to everyone you and he knows and who might be able to help? Inlaws, OWs significant other etc...
Plan A then Plan B, Call the Harleys for counseling and guidance and help with a plan.

Hopefully the pros will kick in here soon. They are great people who know what they are talking about, however you must pay attention to what they say and then implement it, unles the Harleys have told you to do something else.

I haven't exposed to anyone including my WH. He doesn't know that I am aware of a lot of the stuff that's going on. I don't know if I need to:

confront him at OWs home if I find him there
just tell him what I'm aware of and see what happens

As for exposing to inlaws they would not care at all. This type thing is common in that family.

I could expose to OWs workplace but I think my WH would kill me.

I haven't talked to Harleys. Not sure if I should contact them or try for local MC.

Your H is an abusive bully and liar. People like him do not change easily.

I doubt you will find any FWH here who was like your H. People like your H don't suddenly come on marriage building forums and offer to help others.

You've been advised by many here. If you choose to remain in a relationship with this man, you already know what your life is going to be like.

Is that the life you want?

Why all this worry about an other woman? That's the least of your worries. You know if you stay with him there will always be "another woman" somewhere. Might as well get used to it.

I find your H's behavior repulsive. He is not a man in my book.

Low

No, it's not the life I want. I do love him and believe there is a chance if we get counseling, church together, etc. It won't be easy but it is possible.

There are many good qualities about WH.

I know it sounds like I'm taking up for him and maybe I am. I know that the verbal abuse, etc. started after he believes I had A w/OM at church we both attended together.

This in no way excuses the behavior but, the above is why it happened.

Yeah, there are many problems not just another A.

When you say there will always be OW is that because of the multiple affairs already? I see many posting here who have done so but seem to be putting their marriages back together and moving forward.

I asked for your opinions/advice and I'm not trying to refute it because somewhere deep in my "gut" I'm afraid you are right about everything.

I guess what I am really asking is what do I do to bring all this to a head so that I can truly see what I'm dealing with and which step to take next.

Please keep advising.

For long periods of time my H acted totally different. I have to be honest in saying that I have done things to anger him. I didn't try to make him angry but my actions did make him lash out. Examples are:

1) I have lied to him about things big and small. Now, the reason I lied is because of how I knew he would react but, nonetheless, I did lie and that's a huge problem that I need to fix regardless of my marital state. I own that problem.

2) I talked to OM at our church. I never had any contact of any kind w/OM outside church but, in reading many posts on this site I was wrong and acted inappropriately.

3) My H and I have been separated x almost 2 years. He has begged me to come home and I have always put up roadblocks. The roadblocks are reasons why I left in the first place and things that were still going on but still he asked me to come home multiple times and I refused.

The nastiness and anger and abuse were a result of 1-3 above. I never felt like I could go home and have a chance of repairing things with stuff still like it was when I left.

Now, there's a second A and he has told me that it is my fault because he kept telling me he was lonely and that he did not intend to remain by himself. He blames me for this and says if I had been the wife I should have been this would not have happened. He hasn't admitted to A but says OW is a friend he can talk to.

I am 99.9% sure he is lying.

I'm still unsure if I should confront him w/knowledge and tell him we will go to MC and he is to have NC w/OW or we move to divorce.

Help, please.

L2S,

You cannot control his actions or tell him to do anything. All of the things you have listed above as was claimed to be your fault, are "free" excuses for him to use against you to make you feel guilty and take the blame, so he doesn't have to "own" it.

I really think you should be putting all of this effort into a NC plan, between you and him. Quit obsessing about the OW and this marriage. You already know he is lying to you, and even if you chose to confront him with his lies, he will just use one of his free excuses to turn it around on you. I doubt very highly, from the way he sounds, that he will respond to you by saying, "Honey, you're right, I've been untruthful and abusive to you. Let's get help". I don't see this happening, L2S. I fear not only for your emotional state, but I fear mostly for your physical safety.

I'm sorry, L2S, if this hurts you, but I really think it's time to look at this situation for what it is, instead of trying so hard to change it.

Please take care...

Jennifer

Need advice. I know I drive you guys crazy asking constantly for advice but, I have absolutely no one else to talk to about all this. No one else knows about A and I don't have anyone close outside family that I can talk to. I don't want to involve my family any more at this point so I really need you guys. Please bear with me.

Last night WH fabricated story in order to go to OWs.

Fabricating stories tonight, too to keep me from coming to house. I want to go to OWs and see if he's there. If I do should I confront him w/her there. She apparently thinks he's this great guy and he may have told her our marriage is over, etc. He also is telling me they're just friends and she's someone he can talk to. I know, classic WH story.

Should I go to door if he's there?

and what would that accomplish?

Do you think he would say, "Oh life, you're so right. I don't know what I'm doing here. I love and adore you. She forced me here and I'll never speak to her again. I'll follow you home." and the ow say, "You're married? Get out of here you cad. I'm so sorry life, I didn't know he was married. Please, please forgive me."

Unless you're interested making new friends by meeting police officers, I'd stay off her property if I were you...

L2S,

Did you see my post above?

I see your point although I don't think OW would call police. The area is quite ritzy and I don't think she would want to call attention to herself in that manner.

So, what do I do?

Should I go there and see if he is there? Should I go to the entrance of the area (gated community) and see if he goes there or comes out of there?

I know you are right about your scenario. I can't believe I'm in this situation and I don't know where to go from here.

So, if you don't think confronting is good idea, do I simply tell him what I know and ask him what he intends to do about it.