I've thought about making appt w/the head of the counseling center where OW works and playing the VMs for him and getting his opinion as to whether this is a joke or not.

Thoughts.

A JOKE? Is he serious? What kind of humor would this be?? Especially for a "Counselor"? Is this one of her professional techniques, that she uses with her clients? That's sick!

Well whether it was a joke or not, the whole thing is just wrong! I'm not sure about the playing it for the head of the center, although, this could also be a problem for her clients, who are innocent, and needing real help. WOW, what a twist!

I'm sorry, L2S, I'm not meaning to react to this so bluntly, I'm just kind of shocked by it.

It sounds like your H answered your question on the MC, and not giving up his twisted little friend. Sounds like they're two peas in a pod...

I'm sorry for your pain, L2S, and I will continue to pray for you. Take care YOU! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

OW isn't a marriage counselor. She is actually a parenting coach. She works in a center that has multiple counseling type services.

I agree that it is a sick joke if that was what it was. I'm not convinced. Per him, OW was helping him by making me think there was OW so I would "wake up" and either get mad and file or try to work on things.

I've considered calling her to see what she would say regarding friendship, etc. but I haven't worked up the courage. He has said I could but it's almost said in a threatening nasty way, not like "I have nothing to hide and if it would make you feel better please call her".

I'm continuing to ask him about MC and about a weekend getaway marriage seminar. So far he hasn't definitely said "no" but not "yes" either. I know a part of the problem is that we've each been at this point before individually but not both willing at the same time and he's hesitant. That I understand.

I am not really sure where to go from here.

He has said that he doesn't think he can handle the fact that I was talking to the OM. I can handle his A, the stuff with the 2nd ex and now this but, Mr. Ego can't handle the fact that I talked to someone else.

Go figure.

Would you call the OW and ask her to back off? Or, what would you say to her if you would call her?

Regarding MC, would you continue to push for counseling? Would it help even if the WS wasn't totally committed? Could something useful get through to them?

Is it worth the effort?

life..

why not go back and read every post you've posted here at MB..I think that might give you a better perspective.

You were ready to leave and I thought justifably so. He and his children have a history of treating you poorly. Now that he's threatening to leave, all of a sudden you're wanting to repair the marriage. I know this is natural because one tends to hit the panic button when faced with losing what was a big part of their life for a very long time. It's so different when it's your decision vs. someone forcing the decision upon you.

I understand the feeling as I've been there as well in the past. The panic of losing something that's unhealthy seems brighter when facing making it on your own. The unknown can be scarier than the familiar misery.

The sad thing is often we blow the unknown to be so frightening that we will stay where it is much worse...without so much as a try.

I'm not making any judgement on your situation and am not encouraging you to do anything one way or the other. I just recognize myself long ago in your posts. Just print off all your posts, compare them and take an objective look.

You and so many others (Ark, Jennifer68, etc) are right and I know that you're right.

I know that getting out of the situation is probably the best thing for me to do. I just have a difficult time of seeing it for what it is.

You're right when you say I am panicking; I am. My life has been so intertwined w/his for so long I'm having a hard time seeing it as just me, not a part of a couple.

I know you're not judging me. Your giving advice. I appreciate that. No one here is telling me what I want to hear. You all are telling me the truth. Sad thing is though that I'm the only one who can act on it and I'm having a hard time doing it.

As for kids, I have to say I've acted poorly as well. I can excuse it all away but, I had a hard time dealing w/them for many reasons and was unrealistic in some of my expectations.

L2S,

So the OW uses this as a way to get "you" off the fence, as if this is HER job? Well, if you do end up speaking to her, it should only to be able to tell her, "He's ALL yours, Sugar! I am now officially "off" the fence, and on to bigger and better trails!" "Oh but hey, thankyou for your services. I can honestly say, I got what I paid for! ($0.00) You're a true PRO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Love ya'!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This really isn't cool, L2S! Just remember, your boots were made for walk'n, and that's just what they should do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I'm away for the weekend and believe H is w/OW. It drives me crazy. H can come up w/all sorts of plausible excuses as to why he didn't answer home phone, why he didn't answer cell phone, why he didn't x and x and x.
I want to catch him redhanded (as if I don't have enough proof of problem so far). He's just so smooth w/the lies but that's exactly what I believe he's doing.
Oh, well. One of these days I will learn.

L2S,

I haven't posted to you before now, but looking at this from an objective outsider's point of view I have several thoughts...First, your WH is an abuser - plain and simple and he's still doing it by trying to "gaslight" you about OW's so-called "counseling technique" to get you off the fence. I am offended for you that he would think you are that gullible and stupid.

Secondly, what the heck does it matter whether he has an OW? She is NOTHING compared to the abuse he keeps heaping on you. You are worrying about the scratch on your arm (OW) while your jugular vein is hemhoraging (sp?) (WH's abuse).

Now, if it were me, instead of calling her (which will get you nowhere, trust me, BTDT) I WOULD call the head of the counseling center and ask him/her about his/her employee's questionable counseling techniques and whether this is something both he and practice in the profession condone. You might also ask him whether he considers your husband abusive and whether trying to repair your marriage is a healthy goal on your part.

Regards,

BB

Ditto...

You have no idea how much I want to expose OW to her boss but, I believe I would be creating a nightmare for myself if I did. My H has threatened me for 2 years w/exposing my teenage past to all who would listen. While I am no longer that person I don't want others to know about some of the stuff I did.

There are some who probably wouldn't give him the time of day if he tried it. There are some who would say "So"? There are some who would help it spread like wildfire. There are things in my past that I wouldn't want my child to know.

He has now told me that although I am willing to forgive and forget and move forward, he isn't sure that he can. He isn't sure that he can forgive me for talking to OM. I can forgive the A, the resumption of relationship w/2nd EXW, the "friendship" with current OW, etc. I can forgive the abuse, the stuff w/stepkids, etc., etc., etc.

But, he can't forgive me for talking to OM. He is convinced that I had an A. If I ever went away w/job for weekend, he's convinced the OM went. If I didn't/don't answer cell when he calls, he's convinced I'm talking w/OM. !00% of this is absolutely false but I can't convince him otherwise.

He has never found a phone number that could be traced to OM. Why? I haven't called him/him called me.

He is always telling me that people used to tell him they saw me talking w/OM. He tells me about conversations I supposedly had with OM. Okay, so if all that's true and people are so willing to run to him about all this stuff, why hasn't anyone ever told him that OM went out of town with me to X or that I was seen at X with OM? Because it never happened. Just can't convince him.

He's now saying that if I have to have an answer today about what he thinks we need to do, I need to move forward w/the divorce. He's willing to wait and see if we can get along but that's all. Doesn't want MC; waste of $ at this point. Doesn't want me to come home; too much to go through again if it doesn't work.

He is bating you. Tell him to give you the names so you can check out his story. Bet he won't cuz he can't.

L.

You can't prove a negative. You can't prove you didn't talk to supposed OM and you can't prove he didn't go on these trips. This is all nonsense and he's jerking you around.

I don't know what you did as a teenager and unless it was mass murder, it's probably the same behavior most teenagers did. Goodness gracious, everyone's stupid when they're a teenager. If he told whatever you did, people will just look at him as if he were an idiot. Who cares?

If you're worried about your child finding out then go ahead and share the information with them. Whatever this is is holding you hostage and he is as well. You can use this situation as a learning tool for your child.

With his attitude about MC and "waiting to see if you get along" which translates to if everything is done to suit me and me alone, what are you hoping that will be different? You want to go back to that same misery? Because you know good and well that's what it will be. Misery.

Write him a Plan B letter spelling out the conditions of repairing the marriage, if he doesn't comply, then it is time to move on with the divorce. Who wants to live with an adulterous man who spews out accusations of your misdeeds of long ago, allows his children to treat you with disrespect, threatens to reveal private conversations between the two of you, and wants everything on his terms without compromise? I certainly wouldn't. Noone in their right mind would either.

L2S...are you still around? Let us know how you're doing.

Jennifer

Jennifer,
I'm still out there somewhere!! I'm in a state of confusion. H says he wants to see if we can get along before we take any steps toward working things out. I don't know exactly what this means but:

doesn't want me to come home
doesn't want us to go to church together at neutral church

We can talk on the phone; do so numerous times per day.
I can go to house and we talk, work on stuff, etc.

No talk about relationship. Says he has no contact w/OW, etc. Don't know that I believe that.

So, I'm still in limbo. Don't have a marriage. Aren't getting a divorce.

I asked him earlier what we're doing. He said he wants to make sure that we can get along and that I am not going to start being nasty again. He says I'm nasty to him when he tries to be nice. Actually, he has cursed me so much that I am always wondering when he's going to change again.

So, I guess I'm doing a Plan A to see what happens. Not sure how long this needs to go on.

I'm sorry you're going thru so much, L2S. I know this has to be sooo frusterating. I just hope the light will start to shine thru which ever door it is you need to step thru. Hang in there and keep us posted. Take Care...Jennifer

I will. I still needs lots of help and advice. I truly do take it to heart. I keep praying for a sign but, I don't think I would get it if God slapped me in the face!!
Thanks for the help and for checking on me.
I'll keep in touch.

Well, L2S, we just need to pray that God will help you SEE the signs, and acknowledge them, and the strength to act on them.

There...I just said a little prayer to myself, for this, and also for guidence in the direction you need to take. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />Amen! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

Bumping back up, you doing ok?

Life..sweetie, I think you see the signs..it's just scary for you to take that step of faith..one way or the other.

Being married to a narcissist, I realized that life got to be all about him and little about me. It's a very difficult life and my fault for allowing it. It's like the old story about the cannibals who put their prey in a big pot of water. The cannibals slowly heat the water and without realizing it, the prey is cooked! Evaluate your life and make sure it isn't just all about him. It's your life as well and make it so.

You've got to find that place within you that I refer to as the "that's crap" flag. I learned to recognize the "crap" he spewed my way to manipulate me. When it didn't work anymore, my life was so much easier.