Believer....you wrote

"Also Plan A usually doesn't bring them back. Plan A does." You said Plan A in both places......Which one is supposed to be B??

-Caren

Arrrrgh someone talk to me...........I'm having a crazy hard time this evening.

Mark hasn't called back....thankfully. I know that this is all a good sign that Plan B is working just as I want it to, but I just can't believe he asked me out to dinner, I'm floored....really didn't expect that.

-Caren

wish I could help you the way you are trying to help me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

All I can say is hang in there.

Thank you Fighting, I appreciate it.

I wish I could help you more than I can......I know what I'm doing, actually, I've been here before, and I know this means it's working the way it should, but it's still very hard because I love him with all my heart, so it tugs at the old heart strings, but I know I can't cave....not this time, I can't do it.

It's just weird that this hit me so hard. It's good that he hasn't talked to me because I really don't know how I'd disguise this. I'm walking around in a daze trying to regain my grip. I was fine until the dinner invitation...it's so easy for your heart to scream...."See he loves you he wants to take you to dinner" But my heads saying "CAREN........NO" So I'm a little conflicted at the moment, and I have a rag shoved in my hearts mouth and I'm threatening to get out the chloroform LOL!!!!!!!

It just helps to talk it through here....to vent, I'm not sure why, but it makes it a whole lot better.

I'm having trouble concentrating on the house stuff I wanted to get done, I'm slowly (VERY SLOWLY)getting my kitchen together.

Okay gotta run and get DD14 (otherwise known as Lauren) from Youth Group, I'll be back in a few.

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren,

I don't know if it helps, but I have been reading your postings and I am amazed and impressed with your strength.

Hang in there!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

me

Happy birthday, Caren, and WHOA! That's kryptonite all right! Your WH is NOT liking this! You kinda want to say, "Which part of the 'no contact until the OW is out of the picture don't you understand'?"

Not just that, though. Tom Joad is right about Plan B protecting you from the fake behavior, and it is also highly likely that the invite to dinner was his guilt being made manifest. Probably even thought he was doing you a favor! Poor little ole you, with no life of your own now that he's not in it and an assured cruddy birthday without him around! *snort* Yeah. Whatever.

Caren -

Hi there - about a month ago, my WH was "feeling lonely" and wanted me to go on a date with him. Of course, he also wanted me to talk about refinancing the house too so I'm don't think his motives were very honorable!!

I turned him down. I was excited that he asked, but he was not able to product a NC letter. Oh well.

I am having a tough night too. We can get through this though.

Kim

Caren - did your plan b letter state clearly that you were not interested in re-marriage, but only in preserving the marriage you have right now, or nothing at all?

I think your husband has this romantic (sic-not!) notion of starting over after the divorce, and you need to somehow clearly convey that all bets are off, that you will not be interested in dating someone who can't be happy with what he has right now.

I'm not saying come out of Plan B - but at some point, you need to communicate that Plan B is to save what love there is left in the event that your H overpowers the WH - but that you will have no love left to "try again" if he proceeds with his do-over plan.

No, actually my letter didn't get all that specific, it was a little different because he wasn't actually *seeing* the OW.

I don't know. It didn't give a list of stuff that he had to do like the last one....of course, I'm thinking of all kinds of things now that he'd have to do.

The plan is working fine, I mean it's doing what it's supposed to, this happened last time too, and Mortarman told me over and over....this is good, it means it's working. So I know that it is working, and I also know that Mark is a lot more husband than WH these days (even before plan B) but not completely, and still insisting on divorce.

He has had this do-over mentality for a while now.

Okay.....he just called again (still on the cell, I don't know if he forgot about my home number or what). What the ($&$#($& does he want?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Good Lord.

Well....at least we know he's thinking about me, right?I mean he called Brooklyn like an hour ago and told her goodnight because he was going to bed.....can't he sleep 'cause he's thinking about me, Wow I have NEVER done that before....wonder how it feels.

Let me find my plan B letter and I'll post it.

God Bless,

-Caren

Here it is, the PBL:

My Dearest Mark,

I want you to know that I love you with all my heart, and I continue to be committed to you, our marriage and our family.

I regret that we have been unable to reach a compromise in our relationship that allows us to move forward together, and that the changes that I've made in myself aren't enough for you to feel that you are in love with me.

I apologize for moving while you were at work, but I simply cannot take another goodbye, it's just too hard.

I also want you to know that I am cannot be a willing participant in the destruction of our marriage, therefore, I will not be able to go through with the dissolution as we discussed.

I know that you wanted us to part friends, but I am afraid that is not something that I am capable of, I want you in my life as my husband, my lover and my best friend, and I am sorry, but I cannot accept anything less. This being said, I am going to need to once again break contact with you. To preserve the love that I have for you, I must remove you from my daily life. I will avoid seeing you and speaking with you on the phone.

I have given Brooklyn my Virgin Mobile cell phone, and I have changed the number to xxx-xxxx. Brooklyn is the only person who will answer this phone, and you are the only person who will have the number. I am doing this so that you may contact each other whenever you wish. I will begin having Brooklyn dropped off at your work Friday evenings @ 6 pm beginning 1-20-2006, and will have her picked up at your work on 1-22-2006 at Noon, and will continue this schedule on an every other weekend basis.




If you need to contact me regarding Brooklyn, or any other matter, you can do so by leaving a voice mail or text message on my cell phone.


Mark, I continue to have the greatest of confidence that we could have a wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. If the time comes when you feel you could commit to trying to build a new life with me, it is something that I would like to discuss with you.

I believe that you know what it would take for me to believe that you want to make a serious attempt to make our marriage work, I know that you say that Shannon hates you, but your contact with her, even in passing is unacceptable to me.

I hope that you will look in your heart and find the love that you once had for me Mark, until that time, I ask you to respect my wish to have no contact with you.

I pray that the Lord keeps you safe during our time apart.

With All My Love,

-Caren




**********************************************************
I don't know if I should've gotten more specific or what, lemme know what you think, I am going to call it a night, I'm beat.

God Bless,

-Caren

So, what'd you guys think of the PBL?? Was it not specific enough. The first one had a list of things he needed to do, of course the only thing he actually did was get 1 of his cars out of the OW's garage, and break up with her. He refused to send a NC letter, and he refused MC.

I don't even know if we could afford MC at this stage of the game......although I do know we need it, neither of us has insurance, so I don't know that I can put that stipulation in there, but there still is the one broken down car in her garage, and NC, I can't be with him without those.

Before I moved out, during our false recovery, he'd want to buy something and if I said anything about it, he would get upset, like "screw her, why do I need her input, I'm divorcing her anyway" (he never said it, it was just that attitude). Before I got my new job, he'd tell me about once a week "You need to get a different job....." Then once I got the job, he switched to "You have to start saving money" (To move out). A few times he even called me with numbers to apartment complexes. If things were going too smoothly, he'd have to bring it up... "How much money have you saved?" stuff like that.

I'm scared to death his attitude would still be the same even if he decides that he does want to save the marriage.

I said somewhere before, I don't know if it was on this thread or not, but I *accidentally* (Yeah, actually on purpose)left a pair of my white lace thongs hanging in the closet, and sprayed my perfume on his pillow, but I forgot to mention that a long time ago, I printed off the EN questionnaire and layed it on the table for him. He just kept moving it someplace else, I ended up putting it on the computer stand, and he got upset one day and threw it all over the floor. I just picked it up and put it on his dresser. I filled out my part of the EN's list, but he never would, he stuck it in a dresser drawer. Well before I left, I got the EN questionnaire out of the drawer, and I placed it in an extra Bible that I had (so you could see the questionnaire sticking out) and I layed it on the bed.

So he has my PBL, but all it really says is that if he seriously wants to work on the marriage to talk to me, and that I can't accept him seeing OW even passingly. Should there be an addendum sent? Like okay....here's the list.

I don't even know what my list would have on it if I did do that.

I actually feel a little better today about him calling, because even though it made me feel like poop to not be able to talk to him, I realize in the light of this new day that he is trying to see me without changing a thing, and would most likely revert directly back to divorce talk.

I know he loves me, I've never ever doubted that even for a minute. I am actually a little surprised that he's reacting so typically to Plan B though, I thought this time he may have had enough of me and would be mad at the way I moved out, but accept it because that's what he wanted.

This does not seem to be the case, NC with me is apparently becoming painful for him. He doesn't like it, he misses me. These are good things. It's only been a week, and I gather the withdrawls from me are beginning. (I don't think that I'll have to deal with OW withdrawls, I think he went through that already, but, of course, I'm unsure).

Oh, also, I want to have free access to his cell phone records, that's a must, and I assume he'll want free access to mine. Which is fine with me. I can't think of anyone I've called that I care that he knows about, unless, of course it was regarding the apartment, and that would just be because I didn't want him to know I was moving until I actually did it.

I've talked to my friend (the one that I had pizza with and Mark insisted it was a date), but I talked to him on my land line.....Mark would probably get upset that I'd talked to him, but there is SO nothing there, he's deeply in love with his wife (even though they're divorcing) and I have no romantic interest in him AT ALL.

I feel bad for this guy, and I've tried to direct him here to the divorced/divorcing forum, but I don't think he ever did it. I talk to him about MB concepts, because he sends an e-mail out to his friends and family, giving them updates on what's going on in his divorce, and I can read between the lines, she demonstrates classic WS behavior, and he DEFINITELY fits into the BS catagory....so, when I talk to him, I tell him that. I told him that I realize other people in his life probably tell him that it's great he's divorcing her, and that she's a b***h, but that I wouldn't ever tell him that, so he didn't have to do his hard-a routine with me.

We don't *see* each other, and we only talk on the phone maybe once every 2 months, and I'd definitely stop talking to him if Mark was uncomfortable with it, but I'm not ashamed that I talk to him and the only reason I wouldn't talk to him in front of my husband is that it would upset him to hear how this was all a "Plan", he wouldn't like to think he was part of a plan.

Well, I have to run one DD to school, the little one is ill today, so my Mom is going to pick her up from here about 10:30 before I go to work.

I'll check back in a few.

God Bless,

-Caren

Dreadful, I hoped someone would post to me today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

*bump*

I would stay dark. He knows what he needs to do, but doesn't want to do it.

Continue making a nice life WITHOUT him.

It usually takes several months of Plan B before they realize what life will be like without you.

Okay...you are in Plan B. As the Plan B Czar, I want to ask you something:

If you were giving advice to someone else who was going thru this and just entered Plan B...what would you tell her? How should she handle her WH?

Caren, you know the answers to your questions. You have been thru this twice before. And you did the same thing. Within days, you questioned what you were doing, what he was doing. He barged is way into your NC....

And YOU caved in! And you let him disrespect you. And you have had to live that life of disrespect since then. Wanna go back to that? Worse yet, you wanna be separated/divorced and still be his booty call? for him to keep you hung out there for him, so he can get what he wants when he wants? This the future you want?

Caren, you have done the right thing for yourself. You have etered this well. You know about withdrawal. You know what he is gonna do. You know how you are gonna feel. You will get better if you let the withdrawal take its course.

Come on Caren. You are beginning to do exactly as you did before. Stop questioning yourself. You know the answers. Stick to your guns.

Your PBL is fine. He gets the point, as long as you stick to your points. He understands you dont want things as he has them or is taking them to. He is a grow man, he can figure out the rest.

Stay dark. There is NO good reason to come out of NC until your husband surrenders.

In His arms.

Thank you Mortar. Actually there is a critical difference this time...I've been doing it twice as long as the 1st two attempts already LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (They were 3 days and 2 days respectively) How lame...LOL!!! I've made it to 7 days without contact.

I'm not caving this time, this time I'm listening to you guys, I'm staying dark, I guess I get unsure, and just need you guys to smack me around a little bit. I don't know why on earth I need constant reassurance that I'm doing okay. I already know I'm doing the right thing.

You are the plan B czar Mortar, and I respect your opinion very much. Thank you for your input. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am doing more things for myself. I actually went out and got hair color last night and did my hair, I'm going to get it cut this week, and tonight I am making myself a spinach salad with dijon mustard-tarragon dressing (Something WH and kids would NEVER eat, so I'm making it special for me).

Thanks again and God Bless,

-Caren

Caren,

You're WH has found an indirect avenue by which to communicate with you, your children. I really don't know much about plan B, but I am concerned about how easily he can disrupt you via phone calls to your children.

I hope you find the strength to carry on, you are near the point where the withdrawal will lessen for you. You'll feel better soon! Just keep it up.

Don't be satisfied with his crumbs (invitations for dinner, talk on phone). You are his wife, you deserve the whole meal (plan B terms acceptance). He's not going to give you what you really want unless he sees that anything less is unacceptable!

Edit for clarification: He SHOULD have every right to call your children, I'm just saying it appears he is abusing that right to send message to you. Perhaps there is a way to clarify your boundaries set forth in the plan B letter.

He *tries* to communicate through my daughter, but it's sort of a 1 way communication, I don't answer him. (With the exception of turning down the dinner invite).

I am not caving in for a dinner invitation, I want the whole ball of wax, I want my marriage back, or nothing.

Today has been better...but that may be because my cell ran out of minutes LMAO, I guess in this instance it could be a good thing.

I dunno, I am taking his reaction as a good sign, he was mad at first, then he seemed to be in some kind of acceptance phase for a few days, then on my birthday all h-e-double hockey sticks broke out. Today it's been quiet, haven't heard from Mark at all.

I don't know about absence making the heart grow fonder for the WS, but it sure is making my heart grow fonder, it's goofy. I think it's probably working the same way for him, I am apparently consuming more of his thoughts as the days go by.

I was telling my Mom a month or so ago, that I can't find any fault with him physically, I think he's absolutely beautiful, I don't see his imperfections, I don't see the lines on his face, or that he's overweight, I just see (well not right now) his beautiful blue eyes, and those strong shoulders. I always have thought he was way hot....Lord, I think I'm just oversexed..LOL, I can't believe I miss that so much already, must be my age, eh?

I'm sure I'll probably get 2x4's for taking the above little side trip, but what can I say?? I have said it before, and I'll say it again, I post exactly what I'm thinking at the time. I may not feel this way 5 minutes from now. I'm okay, I'm still holding firm, I'm keeping myself busy to the best of my ability, I'm not going to cave.

I still have no idea what Mark is doing, I still don't want to know, it just upsets me. I know that when we got back together this last time, I questioned everything new that he had since I moved out. Every dish, every knick knack....everything. I didn't want anything around me that he aquired during his *A*, no matter where it came from.

Oh well, just mental diarrhea on my part <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

Just stopped by to say hi and keep up the good work.



no 2x4's sounds like you are keeping a positive image of H which is protecting your love bank... essential to plan B....IMHO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks confused.

Mark just called Brooklyn to say goodnight, and he asked her to ask me if I would talk to him for a minute, he needed to ask me a question. I said "No." She told him, then she said "He said please, he needs to ask you something" I said "No."

Why can't he communicate in the approved way? I mean he actually can't right this second, cuz the cell is off...but I have voicemail on my regular telephone (which DD gave him the number to).

Arrrgh, I'm going to bed.

Good night and God Bless,

-Caren