Well, it turns out she did cut his hair yesterday. This hurts because she won't make him stop coming to the barber shop to get his hair cut. She doesn't work at the shope Thursday through Sunday. I tried to convince her to tell him to only come to the shop on her days off. She insists that he has been trying to find a good barber for a long time.

She says that she has done a lot to cut off contact, but if they see each other once a week, I am not sure we can begin the recovery process.

On another note, she was much more receptive to me by spending time with me and we slept in our bedroom with no fighting. I think I avoided all LB's, but I may have had a selfish demand by asking for SF. She said no, and I accepted the answer, but I did ask several more times. She said no, and I stopped pursuing SF for the time being.

Any Advice?

Yeah, don't ask for sex! Your desperation is practically tattooed on your forehead.

I predict your marriage will fail if they stay in contact. And it will take lots of time, and it will hurrrrrrrrt, much more than anything that's happened so far.

GC

Too late, I already told her I would expose it if she doesn't end it herself. Should I give her time to kill it on her own? She is honest with me and I trust her to tell me if she has contact with him. So far, she has told me everything.

--------------------


Remember, former spouses that are now ws cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

Remember they are addicted, just like a drug addict, they will convincinly lie to cover up their desperate need to fulfeel their addiction to the o/m.

No longer can you take your ws word. Until they have established nc and have gone through the withdrawal and have reached the other side, their word cannot be trusted. Even then, b/s have the right to reassure themselves by following up on what the ws says, does, etc.

Sincerely,
K.D.'s Heartbreak

I will not ask for SF any more. As much as it hurts to do this, I will have to try to spy on her to make sure that NC is being done. I will let her know that I will not allow her to have contact with OM, and will not accept a love triangle as a relationship.

Should I put it this way? If I cheated on you and insisted that the OW's PC had to be cleaned once a week, and that she had been trying to find a good PC Technician, that it would be alright to see her once a week to clean it for her? There's lots of Techs and I can't be the only one, likewise there's lots of barbers and he can find another one.

It's like she wants to hold on to the friendship, but how can I convince her to stop it? She also insists that she can't stop him from coming into the shop. If I knew what he looked like, I would camp out the shop and confront him to find a different barber shop.

Gah, Just when I thought things were starting to get better, it seems like I take two steps forward and three steps backwards.

Advice?

FN, I have to warn you, I don't get asked for advice a lot. But I think mine is sound.


OK


Too complicated. WS don't like puzzles. To "he's been looking for a long time for a barber", I'd have said, "Yeah, it's hard finding a good barber. I hope that works out for him." See, you aren't arguing about it. If she wants to argue, you say, "Your insistence on keeping him as a client hurts me," and you're done. You don't owe an explanation. She has no standing.

More general tip: don't argue with a WS. Don't use logic. It won't work. You need to think in a new way about these issues. You can't reason your way through them. You can't appeal to her sense of fair play.

One one front, you want to make yourself attractive. That means figuring out what she needs from you, emotionally, and meeting those needs when you have the opportunity.

On the other front, you absolutely have to place boundaries and say, "This is my boundary, if you violate it there will be consequences."

"If this man continues to be your client, that does not work for me and you'll have to go."

I know that might seem scary, but it does two things. It protects you from the horrors you'll experience if this affair continues, and it makes you very attractive, probably. You're taking a stand. You're saying, "I can live without you, and I will if I have to, because I'm not going to kiss your butt and let you treat me like second prize."

Do the thing you know you should do, but are afraid to do.

GC

Oh, another thing...

If she asks for SF, do it.

But don't be a clinger.

Got it?

GC

Got it. I think I understand your points.

1. Give her enough space so I don't seem to be needy and desperate.

2. Be there so she feels safe in our relationship. And fullfill EN's whenever I can.

3. Avoid all LB's.

4. Stand firm on my insistence to cut off all contact with O/M at any price.

It's not going to be easy, but it doesn't look too hard at all.

Thanks for your words, they truly do help.

You're not "giving her space". You're just being cool. When she gets mopey and cold, she's bummed out about HIM. You can't do much for her during these times, except keep a wide berth. When she reaches out to you, be there, and be ready. When she cools to you again, back away. Get her a cup of tea and go fix the roof or something.

If being on the computer could be a reminder of the problems between you, DO NOT run to the computer when she cools to you.

When a WS says "give me space" it always, always means "I need to get away from you so I can feel less crappy about my cheating and maybe do a little more of it." ALWAYS.

GC

What do you mean by cools to you again?

If she has strong feelings for OM, she's going to suffer from her separation from him. During those times, she's likely to turn mopey, surly, and lazy, and she won't like you twittering around her.

That withdrawal doesn't feel good. Seeing him and giving him a haircut probably makes her feel better. And she'll be back to the start. Think of her as a heroin addict who needs to kick.

By the way, this guy must be a real dandy! He gets his haircut once a week?

GC

Yes, every Wednesday from what I have learned. I gather from this bit of info that Physical Attraction is one of her EN's. I am an attractive man, but lately my grooming has been so-so. I have shaved and presented myself with fine clothing and showing her that I too am interested in being attractive for her.

FN,
You've been given some great advise by people here on MB forum. Know why thier advise is soo good? Because the've been there, done that. Many of us here have already walked in your shoes and learned everything the hard way. Don't repeat out mistakes, but, rather, use the wisdom on this board to reconsile your M the right way.
Let's recap some things so you don't blunder this effort:
1.) Exposure; affairs only survive in secrecy and darkness. If they are exposed to the light of day, to everyone who could possible have an influence on your WW, it will NOT survive. Dr H advocates everything short of taking a billboard out in the center of town, to expose the A. So, make a list of all those that you should expose to. They would include your WW's family, friends, coworkers, and the management at the shop your WW works at. It needs to be done to all at one time. This is so your WW and OM cannot spin you as some crazy jeolous H who is making up horribe accusations that are not true. Your WW and OM will do this to protect themselves and the secrecy of their A. Trust me, we've seen it humderds of times. If you allow them to do this, they will have taken away the biggest weapon in your arsenal to bust this A; exposure! BTW, if possible, expose to OM's family as well. Simply tell all that yor WW is involved in an A and you would respectfully ask all that you would like them to influence WW any way they could to end the A, as you are trying your very hardest to heal your M.
2.) NO CONTACT LETTER: I will simply quote Dr. Harley and you will clearly see the reason for absolutely NC.

I think that pretty much says it all, don't you think?
Keep in mind that you and your WW must write the NC letter or email together and YOU must be the one to deliver it, to be truly sure it was delivered in the first place.
I will quote the good Dr. again;

Ok, so we are clear about this right? What you WW is doing with respect to NC is not acceptable by you.
I don't want to make this any longer right now, b/c I'm sure you are still in shock and suffering PTSD.
Keep posting,
All will walk you through this if, saving your M is your goal.
All Blessings,
Jerry

When you state your boundary, do it once, firmly. Don't harp on it, don't repeat, don't yell. Be calm. And be firm about what you cannot accept. Don't give the 'or else' bit, and don't hint at a 'or else'. Just state your boundary.

Make yourself the more attractive alternative, meet her needs. Really focus on her. Not on yourself or your needs (x/c for your boundaries). Focus on her needs and what you can do to meet them. Then go back and do it again. Focus on her and on her needs. Demonstrate by actions that you care about her and are successfully meeting her needs. If you can do that, it increases the chances that the OM will soon become unimportant to her.

You can do this! But it's work. She's given you a wake-up call, and you need to meet the call.

Okay, progress?

My WW told me that she told one of our closest mutual friends that she had an affair. She is exposing the affair on her own. This is weird to me, but it seems like maybe she's also critically looking at herself in this situation.

We were eating lunch with my DS (Age 6) so I didn't talk any R stuff with her, but she told me this on her own.

I am upbeat, and I realize this may change, but I will use this energy to get me through today.

I will state my boundary. But I first wanted to get the book Surviving an Affair and have her read the Chapter How an affair should end. I know she wants to do the right thing, but the fog is trying to keep the O/M in the loop, and if she reads this, it may open her eyes to what I have been trying to tell her.

On D-Day I exposed the A to my Mother, Step Father, Brother and Sister. It's also been exposed to her Mother, Father and Grand Father. (Her grandmother passed away last year). She exposed it to our friend on her own.

Day is getting better.

Sounds okay. You have to be adamant (and yeah, definitely without getting angry or arguing) about the no more contact of any kind at all.

Any contact has to be unacceptable. Non-negotiable. She can't be friends with him. No way. If she stays friends with him, it's almost guaranteed that this affair will continue.

GC

If she will read the book it's a real gift. Based on what I've read here, it sounds as if many wayward spouses won't, and some resent being asked to read that kind of thing.

Also I've read somewhere that the book 'After the Affair' is written more from the wayward's point of view, and might find a spot in your WS heart as well.

I'm with graycloud, if she doesn't stop all contact, it's pretty much for sure the A will continue. Probably he comes in weekly mainly to see her; that should stop. Maybe she would give him a bad haircut to keep him from coming back?!

Okay, way good progress, and two possible set backs.

We went to our mutual friends house and talked about our situation. Everyone agreed that no contact is to be allowed with her and O/M. She agreed. We got along great, and no LB's were committed on my part. The couple that we talked to are good christian people with good morals. We all agreed that had God been in our lives and I had been there more for her, that the likelyhood of the affair happening would have been greatly diminished. I refused to take responsibility for her decision to cheat on me, though.

When we got home, we had good SF and went to sleep. When it was time to wake up, she wanted me to hold her for a couple of more minutes. This made me and her feel great. I got up and took a shower, and then it donned on me. She may have gotten pregnant or an STD because she had unprotected sex. Her period is supposed to start on Thursday next week.

I am going to be a nervous wreck until she has her period. Is there anything I can do to minimize my anxiety or prepare myself for the real possibility that she may be pregnant? We don't believe in abortion, and if she is pregnant, then I would not ask this of her.

Advice, anyone?

sorry to bump my own thread...

Advice? Well, you can't control whether or not she's pregnant, can you?

Have her get a full STD screening. Don't count on OM's word that he's a clean-living cad.

How are you doing on those old bad habits? Are you ready for the possibility that she might have some times when she feels depressed and surly? Is she ready for it?

GC

Heh, I guess you are right about that. It just makes the affair much more concrete with consequences that we both will have to deal with if she is in fact pregnant.

She says he is clean, and I called a testing place, and they said that if we wait 3 months, we can test for all STD's including AIDS. That's the one I am most afraid of, and it's giving me a lot of anxiety thinking about it.

The old habits are dying a quick and painless death. I am helping a lot more with the kids and spending a lot of time with them and my WW. We are ltting God back into our lives, and I have been praying a lot lately. If you have any prayers to spare, we could use them.

One other twist, I had a vasectomy two years ago, so if she is pregnant, all of my family and friends that don't know about the A will know that the child is most likely not be mine.

If she's pregnant, does that mean the O/M will have to be involved in our lives forever?

I am so confused, anxious and very very nervous right now.