Seriously, I don't want to kick you when you are down, and I will apologize for perhaps doing this. I fully realize the soul shattering pain and anger and rage and fear you are experiencing. No futher need to beat yourself up.

For the record, the chance of a MALE contracting HIV from a woman is about .5% PER OCCURENCE (so odds are with you any way you slice it), so breath easy and stop beating yourslef up. What ever you do from here on out, you can consider yourself warned. I think that is good enough.

Goodluck. My post to you may have had some displaced anger from previous posts about this here and I apologize for giving you more $hit than you need about this.

Lem

I just stumbled upon this forum as I was checking this website out. It seems to me that all of you are men, speaking from a woman's perspective, NO WAY would I have slept with my cheating husband!, to answer an earlier post from another member. And maybe something has been missed here, but, if your spouse was such an honest person with you, what is it called when she is having an affair? honesty? As far as looking so long for a good barber, that had to be the most lame excuse I have ever heard. The only reason he goes weekly is to see her, not to keep his locks lovely! Either he needs to not go there or she needs to quit, or else it will not end. If you think it can, your fooling yourself. That would be the same as an alcoholic saying he's quiting drinking, yet continue to frequent the bar he always drank at. Put your foot down and take a firm stand, you seem to be too nice for the situation SHE has put you in. Trust me as a woman, she will continue to walk all over you if you don't stand up. Sorry if I am too forward, but...

LOL.....well, you have not seen anything then. That is child's play compared to what other Wayward Spoues have said.

Look around here, and you'll be amazed.

Lem

Well, Jen, being that this is your FIRST post, I challenge you to read alot of the posts regarding this subject here and then come back and tell me if you still believe that this is "men, speaking from a woman's perspective".....LOL.

Lem

Just reading this situation is what I was talking about, speaking as a woman to what appears to be all men posting- on this story alone. Another member had raised the question had it been a woman in the same situation, would she have to react the same way, would she have sex with her cheating husband etc., and would she be expected to give it up when he requested. I was just giving a woman's perspective in response. In fact, I think I would have a hard time treating his "love tool" with love at that point! No, infidelity has not been an issue in our marriage, so I can't speak with experience, but, there are things in life that seem like no brainers, such as continuing to have sex while your spouse is still interacting with another man and a cheating spouse agreeing to end it while still cutting his hair. Yes, the incidence of std's is on a frightening rise, and it is nothing to mess around with. I could pull out my textbooks for actually current stats, and if you weren't familiar with the current numbers, your head would go spinning. By the way Lem, I like your signature.

Whew, Lem, Thanks for showing up.
When I read a few pages back about SF with WW, the hair on the back of neck stood up.
As one who now carries an STD for life, I will be the first to disagree that SF should take place as part of recovery, unless and untill ALL testing is done first.
Lem, we've discussed before that this is the one chink in Dr. H's MB program. It is not talked about or discussed.
My STD (compliments of my fww)was the very thing that led to the revelation of her A. This, after 3 decades of a monogomous M. I guess the only upshot in my case, is that it finally revealed the truth, a truth that would have been kept from me forever.
Lem, you seem to be the likely one to start this campaine on this forum. You have the credentials. I'll be your poster person, if youl'd like <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
All Blessings,
Jerry

Lemmonman, from the few months I've been reading here I agree with you 100% about this statement.


To be as sure as possible, doesn't one have to get tested for HIV 3 months after last sex, and then again 6 months after that?

edited to remove link from other recent thread. Wasn't intended as a 'dredge", more as an extension(or helping hand) of your previous suggestion to poster above to look around and see it's not just "men, speaking from a woman's perspective"

Yep. Their aint no way around it if you want to be sure.

Some Betrayee Spouses unfortunately through their grief and desperation for their marriage won't want to see this and will play the odds. To some, contracting an STD or HIV is worth risking in attracting back their Wayward Spouse. I don't think it is necesary to dredge up the "who" and "where" of this.

If they (BS) make that decision as an adult, then they need to live with the consequences as an ADULT.

Lem

Jerry:

Thanks, but no thanks.

I have fought this fight for a year now here. It culminated in an email to the MB "powers that be" that went unanswered.

I received 2 emails about three weeks ago from very well respected and known members of the messagae board here asking me to please drop this (imploring abstinence for a BS) as it was messing up people's Plan A, and at times going in direct contrast to what was being advised By Willard and Steve Harley for people to do as they worked in Plan A and worked to meet previously unmet needs of their Wayward Spouse.

That was enough for me.....it's kind of like the ship you just jump off of and let sink. That is me now with this issue. I am still passionate about it, but at the moment I don't have the desire nor energy to champion the cause.

I really don't. It is like a broken record. Even I agree.

I have no way to "win" this issue here when the OFFICIAL program remains consistently mute on the subject, and the issue is thrown around a little here and there on the message boards and then suppressed to the bottom again.

It remains the big white elephant in the corner of the room.

It is very saddening to me, but that is something that is my problem......well, in a way not really.

Thank you for the callout nonetheless.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It turns out she is not pregnant (Thank God)! She started her period today.

I am leading her out of the fog, made my stance regarding O/M very clear and firm.

Taking this one day at a time and hoping we can reconcile and recover our M.

I'm not sure what else to say at this point. Some moments I am hopeful and others I am very sad. Some times I don't think it's right that I should change because she cheated on me, it's almost like I am re-inforcing the idea that the A was a legitimate thing. At other times, I realize that I need to change because being how I was can't make her happy.

"I received 2 emails about three weeks ago from very well respected and known members of the message board here asking me to please drop this (imploring abstinence for a BS) as it was messing up people's Plan A, and at times going in direct contrast to what was being advised By Willard and Steve Harley for people to do as they worked in Plan A and worked to meet previously unmet needs of their Wayward Spouse."

LM, are you serious about this? I guess the thoughts that immediately come to my mind are...IDIOTIC and IRRESPONSIBLE!

Put down your padded 2x4 my friend. I believe it's time for ME to pick up mine. No padding on mine though...pure seasoned birch! What's the worst that can happen? My wife die of AIDS?

No...wait...that's already happened...April 5th 2005!!!!

**Sorry for the "threadjack", but stupidity like this REALLY pi$$es me off!**

So, it looks like O/M broke N/C, by calling her when she was missing him. She broke N/C by having lunch with him again yesterday. He told her that he doesn't want anything to do with her, unless we are through and I am out of her life. She says that he is so decent (yeah what a nice guy), that he doesn't want to ruin her life. He also freaked out when they saw my brother drive by when they were having lunch together. At around 3:30 she called me at work and told me to pack my things, that she doesn't want things to work out. I frimly stood my ground and told her that if she wants out, she can leave. I didn't want that, but I told her that this is my house, these are my children. If she wants to have a double life, to go ahead without us.

He said that before, he was playing with fire, but now, he is playing with explosives. He knows that her father, me, my brother and my friends will look for his blood if we ever find out his identity. Nearly everyone in her family and mine know about the A, so it's not a secret.

So, now they both are doing the N/C thing, but I am not sure. Her mother and Father and I had a very long discussion with her last night when she came home. I am so glad to have the support of her parents on my side. They are very good christian people, and will not tolerate their daughter doing this to them and their grandchildren. I prayed, my mother prayed, and I think my wife sees how much I still love her.

She is still in the fog, and I am trying to help her find the way out. Plan A is in total effect, and I will be ready to implement Plan B if N/C can't be established.

First of all, I would like to thank MB for giving me the tools and knowledge for taking the steps necessary to recover my marriage.

Over the past couple of weeks I have been in Plan A. I had minimized all LB's and meeting most if not all of her EN's. All of that work seem to have paid off last night.

I had been monitoring her system with a keylogger and she had been truthful to me except in one regard. She was using MySpace to communicate to O/M and I saw all of her sent messages. I confronted her with this and she blew up at me saying that I should not be going her back to snoop on her PC and that I was pushing her away. I explained that she has no right to privacy right now. And that she should have no secrets from me. She said that I was being such a wonderful husband right after that and apologized to me.

Over the past couple of weeks, WW has gone back and forth, sence fitting and cake eating by cutting OM's hair. Last night I firmly put my foot down and told her that any contact with him is inappropriate and that we would never heal our Marriage if she continued to see him on a weekly basis. She said she had no control over O/M coming into the shop for a hair cut. I explained to her that if he disrespected her wishes to have no contact that it could potentially turn into obsession or stalking from him. Of course he would never do that (bleh).

She agreed with me to write a no contact letter and here it is...


It took her about 30 minutes while I sat next to her. After she sent the message, she got really angry with me, and told me that I would just go back to my old ways and she would die a sad old woman. I assured her that the past is the past and I will continually meet her EN's from this day forth.

I also let her know that she needed to do her part in reconciling and no contact is the first step in a long journey of recovery. She agreed and proceeded to delete her MySpace site, AIM and all non family contacts from her IM. She also voluntarily decided to quit her job at the barber shop and take the offer from our friends at a different barber shop.

I am elated... Any clarification on the above needed? Ask, I am too scatter brained to make a comprehensive post right now.

FormerNeglector

Oh, happy news! Just what we love to hear.

Now be sure to keep up your end of the bargain. Don't forget 15 hours a week, doing fun things together.

Now you're on the right track. Good for you FN, NC is paramount to ending the A. Harley states this over and over again, and now you see why.
NC is the starting blocks of this race. Get ready to run the marathon. this is not a sprint.
Good job in enforcing your boundary!
We are here for you when you need the help and advise.
All blessings,
Jerry

We were taking a shower this AM, and she stated that he wasn't attractive at all to her. I explained to her that he probably met her needs of conversation and adoration, so he didn't have to be attractive. We had good SF, and I am planning a fun Valentine evening with her and the kids.

I will probably purchase the book, "His Needs Her Needs" and read it together.

My mother got us the book, "The 7 Love Agreements". I read chapter one out loud last night before we went to bed.

Things are looking up and I actually have a spring to my step this morning. WW said she can tell when I'm happy when I whistle and sing, and I was doing that this AM. Haven't done that in a long time.

Thanks for listening...

I purchased HNHN on audio CD so my wife and I could listen to it together. I recommend planning a road trip with wife with no kids (obviously) so you can both listen and pause the CD at appropriate opportunities for discussion.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

FN, man, you're doing well.

GC

Depression and anger has hit me really hard the past couple of days. My wife has been very supportive and understanding of my pain. I am having great difficulty concentrating at work. Is this normal? I just want to be happy again. When I am depressed, it stresses my wife out.

She has answered every question I have had about the affair. She says that she doesn't know who she was during that time. She feels very remorseful and I know that recovery is the road I want to be on. I just have a hard time hearing the words "I love you". I need to learn some coping strategies for this part of my life. I feel my anger and I hate that part of me. I hate it! I just want to feel "normal" again.

Just ranting here, if anyone has words of encouragement or understanding, I would love to hear them.

Thanks,
FN