Crystal,

If you want your marriage, at some point you need to DECIDE to meet some EN's wether you feel like it or not. KiwiJ did exactly what my wife did when she committed to the marriage. She had no feelings for me at all but as an act of love and in an effort to repair our shattered marriage, we started having SF again.

If you and TD want to fall in love, you both need to fulfil each others EN's and hence start some love bank deposits. Wether you FEEL like it or not.

Otherwise, you may as well walk now.

KiwiJ,

The A ended MONTHS ago, and we've engaged in SF MANY times since then. But, when I finally made the decision that I wanted to leave TD, it was just too hard to engage anymore. While we were in Cancun, stuck together for an entire week without any kids, jobs, etc. as diversions, I basically drank too much alcohol to want to fool around. And, when it it seemed clear to TD that I WASN'T going to fool around anymore, he TRIED to get me drunk...ordered me SEVERAL shots, plus 2 mixed drinks (after I'd already had a glass of wine w/dinner). He says he wasn't trying to get me drunk, but that's sure what it felt like to me.

Crystal

This does not bode well. With this attitude I wish you good luck.

Crystal, I don't know why I'm so shocked at what you're writing. I shouldn't be. Just about every BS on here has come on and described exactly the same thing from their WSs. And that's when they're told to do a Plan A. I think I'm getting some understanding of how that must seem impossible.

As an FWW, I should REALLY understand what you're saying but I just don't.

I hope the person who said I did nothing to help my own recovery is reading this because I tell you, that really hurt.

And BTW, I really can't improve on what Bigkahuna wrote.

I was going to write something similar but he's said it very well.

You have 2 choices, you leave or you stay and really try to recover your marriage.

There are no other choices.

TD and Crystal -

I'm drawn to your posts for some reason. I guess I can see a little bit of both sides.

When I read TD's posts, I see his side. Then I read Crystal's posts and see her side.

I do give Crystal credit for posting here and telling her truth. There are many, many WS's who could care less, and never post here.

Do you all think it is easy for Crystal to tell her feelings, and get pounded for them?

It would be easy to say that TD is a good husband and father and trying to do the right things. I feel that is true.

But when you hear that a woman doesn't want sex with her husband, what do you do? I'm sure Crystal has no idea what to do. Let's see if we can help her.

Crystal,


Have you read about NC letters? They only appear stupid to WS who are in withdrawl, still in A or in contact w/ OP, or who don't get the pain the A caused to the ENTIRE family. FWS who are sincerely sorry for the pain they caused their family and who want to rebuild their marriage, realize just how important NC letter is to show their intentions.

As far as the content it was sarcastic but you hit the major points. I think you should print it out hand write your signature and give to TD to mail. You have so much to gain here and you are risking it all. For what?

The PA may have ended by you sound as if the A virus is still active in your brain. I have read your thread and ask you, would you want t/b the child or the spouse of someone like yourself?

You and you H go to Cancun, was that suppose t/b a vacation or a kidnapping?

You certainly don't sound like a grateful person. Is that how you have always been?

L.

Thank you all for suggesting that she choose to work on the marriage or walk.

She just left.

Personally, I don't see how we can suggest to Crystal to have SF with TD when she does not feel it.

Why would he want his wife to have SF with him if she does not want to. That IMO is worse than if she just says no. I can see how TD is hurting by the fact that his wife does not want to be intimate. Fact is that there are other underlining issues that need to be resolved first.

Just like TD being upset at his wife for staying in bed till 2pm is not the real reason he is upset. His wife is not connected to him. If she was, he would not care if she stayed in bed till 5pm!

There is something missing for Crystal. I don't see how telling her to feel something will lead her to feel it.

Crystal,
Why do you want your M? Why do you want to stay with your H? Are you in love with your H? Do you think you are in withdrawl from the OM (I know it has been months since last contact, but do you wish to make contact?)......



The way you talk about the NC letter I think shows that you are not 100% committed to recovery. Because, if you were, you would see how important it is for the BS and by being committed to recovery you would want to shows it. The BS needs to feel safe. You can help that! By sending the NC letter. It really does not matter what the OM thinks of it (i.e. whether he wonders why you send it, if he never calls). You are doing it for your H, not for the OM.

Best of luck......others have more experience, so I hope they help you out....

Daisy

I don't think she liked what she was hearing.
I don't think she likes what she is doing.
I don't think she likes what she is feeling.
I don't think she likes herself very much.
I know she doesn't like us much now. I hope she takes time to really think about what she wants. I hope she is honest with herself about what she has done.

Crystal and TD you will be in my prayers tonight.

TD, where has she gone? Did she take any clothes? Where are the children?

I don't want to get involved in the middle of a war but I saw early on some questions about the BS's motivation for SF. My WW and I have had many periods in our marriage where we had to abstain for weeks or even months due to her various medical issues. I have never missed not having SF during those times. Just holding her hand was the same for me. There have been other times during our marriage (albeit brief) where we avoided SF as a weapon against the other. Those were bad times. SF, for me, has always been about intimacy and making a connection. In my current situation, my WW clearly says she is in love with the OM. My feelings for her are not all wonderful at times. I just don't allow myself to use SF as a weapon. To do so is clearly PA. If we avoid SF until everything has all worked out and we are living happily ever after, I won't be around for long.

I won't comment on what I have seen in this thread because there are many wise people here doing that. I will just say that SF, for me, is about communication and intimacy. If I just wanted wild crazy SF, I am the one who would have had the A a long time ago. On the other hand, I have never been attracted to any other woman than my WW since the day we met (even now).

Or has she just left in a fit of anger?

I agree with Confused.

She really left before she walked...... best to let her stay out there as she is. She isn't good for the family as she is right now and she knows it. May not want to admit it but she knows it. Still showing signs of that A virus which she needs to work on removing from her soul.

Remember it is your W you want back not someone who wants t/d her own thing at the expense of her family. Respect for individual and family time is important. That is now what I read from her own posts.

You will hurt until you realize the WS in her took her out the door, not the W and mother in her.

She will not find her family out there and it will frustrate her more. Of course she does not want you to know this but you already do....so her plan to make you miserable will fail if you recognize your boundaries and know when she is babbling vs asking for your help.

You have the right to check if she is safe. If you need to do so, call those who may be able to keep an eye on her for your family. That's right, present your stance as your family's stance. It is much harder for a WS attitude to pick on the whole family vs the BS. The WS' like to pick on the BS..... they don't do well attempting to degrade the family.

Use your tools wisely. It doesn't matter even if she does read her..... in fact I hope she does. If she doesn't, you will still receive support. The WS will get very frustrated because WS' are not supported in such a constructive manner.

L.

White Daisy, as a recovered FWW of 2 years I have to say that if someone had told me to paint myself blue and leap off a bridge on a bungy cord, if that's what it took to recover, I'd have done it.

Kiwi,
I agree that she is not 100% committed to the path to recovery.

I don't agree that she should have SF just to do it. Fact is if she was committed to recovery this would not be an issue. She would be able to communicate with her H what her feelings on the subject are and they would be working on it.

The question is why is she not committed to recovery?

Going after her and telling her to 'do it or just walk out' seems a to go against the whole MB approach. It is not that black and white for her.

TD cannot force her to fall in love. The LB concept is a bit unsatifiying on this point. He can try to fill her EN all day long, but if she is not open to it, it will not work. She is the one that has to look deep and see why she is not open to it.

Does that mean she is still a WS? I think if she is not in contact with OM, that that label is a bit harsh. She is not out of the woods yet. It is not black and white. We are talking about feelings, feeling of love for her H. She does not have them, and TD cannot force her to have them. She is the one that needs to figure it out. All he can do, is give her no reason to dislike him! So, he does the Plan A (or whatever it is called the stage he is in) and he does not LB. But there is a reason his W had an A (not excusing it)......

The fact is, that she had it for a reason. And part of that was, not really having strong LOVE feelings for her H at that point. Just because the A ends, does not mean the LOVE is back. It can happen to some WS.....I think those that are in recovery and are willing to do anything for the BS to rebuild the relationship, are those people, they got the LOVE back. But I doubt it happens overnight for everyone.

I don't know how they should go about it, getting the love back (if I knew, I would use it on my H and I would have him home, not gone and on his way towards D)......

I hope that Jennifer can help them out......

I just don't see the point of making her feel bad, for not having certain feelings, for not having SF just to do it, for taking a personal day (especially when she does not do that regularly!).

Daisy

BTW,

I don't know TD's story, but is not one of the requirements when beginning recovery to have NC astablished? Why was this not done months ago? (asking, not judging).

Dang people,
What happened to the CARROT & the stick approach???

Anyone actually remember the couple from SAA? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
It don't just Turn on <snap> Like That!

Many people just ain't goin "there" if they don't FEEL any connection. (And she SURE Don't) at least not at the moment

That's the Point of filling HER love Bank, which apparently was EMPTY,
even BEFORE the A.

So its gonna take even more time to reach that threshold of "love". (which apparently she NEEDS to WANT to engage in SF)


TD,
Stop pressuring her (it ain't Helpin your cause in the Least).

Yea, its TOTALLY Unfair .......but when Recovery is EARLY early on ......the BS Has to carry the Burden (in most cases).
You end up Giving a lot & getting very little.
Just the way it is (especially in a case where the WS is/was ready to walk anyway).

Please stop! Both of you. You have children in the house who you just exposed to a violent scene? You both need to back off and cool off. Scenes like this are traumatizing to the kids and will stay with them forever. You two are supposed to be the adults. Be the grown-ups. Quit blaming each other and just stop and protect your kids. You can address the issues between the two of you in the presence of a counselor, not at home, and certainly not now. Call a truce NOW. Look, my H&I had to do just that and agreed not to raise big issues unless we were with the counselor until we were able to communicate without it blowing up. Quit coming here to try to tell everyone but each other YOUR side of things. There's too much riding on this -- your kids first of all -- to not pull back.

Shellybird

The only reason I stay in my M is for my kids. And, of course, there's always the GUILT TD lays on me, telling me that it's what God wants for us, because He hates divorce. I don't really want to stay with him, especially not after tonight. He'd promised me before that he'd never try to "trap" me again, or hurt me physically again. But, when he didn't get his way...that's exactly what he did. I don't think I'm in withdrawl from OM...he doesn't mean anything to me. He was a fun diversion for a while because he paid attention to me. However, whe I finally realized that OM only paid attention to me when HE needed ME, and not vice versa, my opinion of him changed. The reason I said that the NC letter was "stupid" was because it was really pointless in that the OM isn't going to contact me out of the blue. He didn't even always accept calls from me way back when...only when it was convenient for him.

And, for those of you who want me to print the NC letter, sign it, and mail it to OM...I can't do that. OM lives with his fiancee, who doesn't know about what happened this summer between us (which was definitely more EA than PA), and I'm not going to "out" him to her. That's his call, not mine.

Crystal