When you say going home, where is that?

Have you asked your wife while she feels the way she does? There is a reason for her to pull away, not be affectionate and all the above. Try asking, you may be shocked to hear the real answers.

SM

Home = House + DS11 + Roommate

Tried that one already. I get the now famous "I don't know." I have specifically asked if I am disgusting to her and she says no. But, she still cannot explain.

C-

Hey, G2,

You've learned a great deal since I last smacked ya, huh?

You understand that there is something not being revealed to you...did you get her the SAA book? Have you read it? It is as essential as the HNHN because it shows how affairs happen..in case she's planning on one. (Bad humor, I know)

You've learned that if you count up all of what you're not getting, your lovebank spirals out of control. Yes, you are missing love deposits, but you are aiding in feel drained, unloved and unwanted.

You get this and you lose it. Totally normal. You are in a rough situation...and you looked around the board and saw much worse, virtually without hope...and you were grateful with what you are dealing with--she's there, she's not saying how much she hates you and wishes you would let her go to be AP, abandoning family, telling off relatives.

Nope. You got a confused, depressed, obsessed wife...and you were looking for LPCs and committing to getting through this because you BELIEVE in the lovebank...totally get it and understand that your feelings can return, even in greater amounts...

Wait...did I say your feelings? Didn't I mean your wife's? Oh, wait...the lovebank belief is in you for her. Does that mean because she doesn't believe it yet, that you shouldn't? Does that mean that you acknowledge that your ENs aren't being met, but you believe they can and will be? Or does that depend on her? A time limit.

See, going from Plan A to Plan B is an option...after say six months of a conscientious Plan A...because in your situation, you guys still don't communicate well, aren't getting outside help, are still dealing with only now beginning the 15 hours and dating her...recognizing what this move has cost to her lovebank (not your fault, hers to deal with), and how if she continues to only see negative...then she won't feel love anymore, right?

You are both in this...both feeling the effects of not meeting ENs...and she's blocking your deposits to a certain extent...and allowing a lot of them to be met elsewhere (online). Now, that's her doing, but...

You got her away from the computer...you accidentally break it...oh, no...what will she do? You know how to take it down and ponder over what the heck happened to it...you have wine tastings and foosball (my idea) tournaments to attend...dancing...walks...lots of walks...and spring with DS at the park and sports to enroll in...and all that consumes a marriage and relocation and getting everything going again in your life.

You've got all that. DS11 is worth all you have to get through, looking at each positive...not at all the negatives. In Plan A you don't ask why...you do "I" statements..."I loved how open and honest you were with me. I wish I had known what I know now." You look sad, wistful and walk off.

You tell her "I didn't realize how much your touch meant. Affection is huge for me. Isn't it funny how I didn't know that before? Affection is a big EN for me. One hug and I'm good to go...to the moon, Alice." Big grin. "Do we have peanutbutter?"

Okay, so you might be too young for Honeymooners lingo...Make it your own. O&H is your EN and you have to stick with being honest without LB; informative without manipulation or threat. You are remaking yourself...living to your code and NOT, please, please, NOT doing this to hinge on her reacting, acting or nonacting. You're doing this to be a great father, hubby and man.

Did you miss that part of Plan A? I don't think so. You're already changing. Listen and repeat. I statements. Take the load off of her for previously shouldering all your feelings and thoughts...you did this to each other...and seperating them--yours is yours, hers is hers--is putting respect back in. That means you don't read her mood, her gestures, allowing hope to come and go with each diagnosis, doc.

Because you have to PLan A yourself, too. You don't allow yourself to assume/mindread others...and you don't disrespect yourself in doing so--giving yourself pain that might not be valid. And if you don't want her to base her decisions about your marriage based on what she feels right now, then please don't do so yourself. Balance, see?

You are doing this, C...you are driving yourself a little crazy and you're worth more than that. You're human. You've been in these patterns all your life.

(((((C)))))

LA

We have both. Unfortunately, she does not use them. I am about 1/2 way through SAA. I still need to get LB (on my way home from work as it is a christian bookstore that was closed yesterday).

I have not gotten her off the computer. If I do, she will blame it on me. You see, there is a huge knowledge gap, techwise, between us. By the way, I suspect that something has happened with her new friend. For almost 2 weeks, they were talking on the phone for hours. Now W has not had a call in over a week.

I do know that her friend was on a trip to visit a "friend" for the weekend. W supposedly chatted with her Sat night and said her friend was having "husband" problems. I am beginning to wonder if W had a chat with her friend or had a chat (by accident) with a husband trying to catch his wife in an affair. This could even be the source of the SAA question from her. I tried to explain to her that SAA was about repairing marriages and love. This would be little use to a married lesbian IMHO. Nonetheless, W will not talk with me so I cannot help anymore than I already have. I have no idea what is going on but this is just adding to our problems.

I am putting my time limit for Plan A at 6 months from Feb 5 (my own odd little sort of d-day). I hope that I can last that long.

It is weird how the WS' think they can counsel other potential WS or even a BS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Mine did the same. I looked at him and said so with that logic....a drug dealer w/b the best to teach our children how to say NO to drugs....not X-drug dealer....one who is still practicing..... That shut him up.

Ok, now about your other question...... H & O are your requirements from your W. But from the WS, you can't have H & O. So what r u t/d?

Go finish reading SAA and then read Love must be tough. The later book is by Dr. James Dobson. You will find out how to communicate with your WS vs your W. Another good read is His Needs/Her Needs....that one is by Dr Harley and will show you the general communication differences betwee men and women, then how to deal with the added twist of a WS.

You can't get all your help here. You must invest reading time.

take care,
L.

Got2,

Not a 2x4, but a concerned point about your judgment here:

"This would be little use to a married lesbian IMHO."

We have had WW's have same sex A's and have recovery with their H's. Look it up. It doesn't mean the end...doesn't mean they were in the closet all their life...it still holds to getting the ENs met, even outside their scope, per se, of what they have known. Same Plan A and everything.

You can believe what you want to believe. Please educate yourself on those beliefs, though, unless you have detailed experience with this previously...even then, might be different in this case, too, huh?

LA

Whack! Yes, ma'am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Ahhh, it was a tap, I swear.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Did it help or just hurt?

LA

Okay, now I will take issue with that dang ole 2x4.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What follows is only my opinion of this subject (so no DJs, please <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). This opinion relates to my previous post about the usefulness of SAA and HNHN to a lesbian/male marriage. It has been based upon several weeks of watching and reading about the lesbian lifestyle. This is a bit off topic but since I did this research trying to figure out what was going on with my wife, I will get to typing...

My Definitions:

1. Lesbian: A woman who is emotionally and physically attracted to only other women.
2. Bi-Sexual: A woman who is emotionally and physically attracted to both men and women.

Many so-called lesbians are, in fact, bi-sexual. My previous comments are for those married lesbians (who do not have any physical attraction to men). This was the point that I was trying to make before. If a so called lesbian reconciled a marriage to its full fruition, then I would argue that she was not a lesbian at all (unless it was a marriage devoid of any SF, which I would admit is possible but not probable). I would then argue that she was a bi-sexual. For a bi-sexual woman who is in a PA, then MB is a way of saving her marriage. IN fact, there is nothing that I have read so far that is 100% tied to a heterosexual marriage (to be politically correct, homosexual marriage seems to be around to stay - though I am definately old fashioned on this one). If a bi-sexual woman gives up the OW and does NC, then the marriage should be salvageable.

True lesbians have no desire to be married to a man. I have even noticed a huge amount of resentment and anger toward the male sex organ from the women in this group (oh, by the way, as a part of my investigation, I actually joined all the boards, groups and other sites that my wife had joined. I created false identities, email addresses and login names to represent myself as a lesbian - yes, I felt REALLY WEIRD!!!!!!). This may be semantics but there is a fine line that will go one way or the other.

This is presented as not to be disrespectful of any group(s) or person(s). It is just my understanding of this reality and this lifestyle as it relates to MB.

Please feel free to disagree, you will not hurt my feelings one bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

C-

No disagreement...you're right.

Whoa.

Good research...why didn't I see that coming from such a diligent man? (And no, if you were a woman, I would say the same thing.)

Kerthwoping myself.

You're RIGHT.

I took it wrong. I have a friend from long ago who moved out when he found out his WW had an A with a woman. Didn't research or understand, snoop or expose. Ran. I can understand that, but it colored MY own perception.

I DJ'd.

And you wrote that email so nicely, I didn't even feel a pinch let alone a kerthwop. I think I'm learning from ya.

Thank you. Very much.

LA

By the way, you need to drop the age difference remarks you made a few posts ago. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />I am only a few years younger than you are. I just did not watch the Honeymooners . I was more in Lucy, Gilligan's Island, M.A.S.H., Hogan's Heros and so on and so on....

C-

This evening was interesting. W opened and literally cried and cried. She says that she does not know what or who she is. Anxiety, Depression and anger are all she is aware of right now. I explained to her that if she can find the way out on her own, then she has to have help. I sort of knew that she was out looking for herself. I was afraid of who or what she would find.

I guess that this is a start. Maybe I can get her to talk to me now. We will have to see.

C-

Watch out for those crocodile tears. Women are real good at turning that stuff on and off. Is she watching your reactions? Keep a poker face.

L.

Well, about 20 minutes later, it went real bad. After the crying bit, she went get on the damn computer!!! After a few minutes, I went to her to ask her to come to bed (midnight?) Then, her friend called.

Gone was the upset W and the strange person that laughs and laughs showed up. Still do not know this person. You see Orchid, this is an EA but I cannot find the OP. Is it her new friend? I don't think so. Is it the internet itself? I am too dumb to figure this out. She clearly exhibits many of the WS symptoms. I cannot deny that.

To be honest, she is/was very susceptible to a PA, but really has not interest in any type of SF (her words and I really believe this).

Well, I did not do a good job overall. While she was upset, I was a knight in shining armor. After she spent over an hour on the phone, I felt as if I knew my place in her priorities. I rank well behind getting something to eat if you go by the amount of time I am allotted. 15 Hours, heck I am lucky if I get 15 quality minutes. After, we talked alot but I did LB quite a bit. I need to get this book and I keep forgetting.

I did ask her while she was very upset if she thought that she was going to find any answers on L Word discussion boards. I even asked her if this was good for her. The answers are "I don't know" just like a small child. W is having a major identity crisis.

Enough venting for now. I need to get back to Idiotville where I really belong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

C-

Boy was I right about this one! My wife was not chatting with her friend (who is a WW). She was chatting with her friend's husband's IT guy from the office! W has now caused a whole lot of trouble for her friend.

The funny thing is, had W been more open about what she was doing the other night, I could have warned her to stay out of it. However, an A has been uncovered and IMVHO the overall solution will be better than the lies that an A will generate.

C-

Orchid,

Actually, she was not watching me. She had her face in her hands while she was sobbing VERY deeply. I hate to say it, but she is really messed up right now.

We can't really afford couseling, but at this stage, I do not think we afford not to do it. To be honest, I am thinking that she really needs an IC. Once her problems are being worked on, I think we can connect again.

But this is a roller coaster, so who knows anything on any given day? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Well,

I have proved that I can be a true horse a$$. My wife got a call from her friend on her cell phone that is billable at $0.40 a minute. She then proceed to a 30+ minute conversation even though I reminded her that we are over our minutes (first time this has happened - my travel + her hospital trip are to blame).

All she had to do was call her friend back after 8PM but she could not "do" this to a friend. I asked her why she could not simple tell her friend the situation. I mean, we are looking at a $300 cell phone bill this month that, to be honest, I cannot pay for after our move. Two months from now, it will not be such a bad deal. I ranted and raved generally screwed up some more.

Then, we sat down and talked about how much we both have been arguing. It is much more me than her but we both share in the problems.

I still played second (or third) fiddle to the internet/IM/chat deal. But, in the end, she crawled into bed and put her arms around me. Heaven has to be something like this. I have never felt like this before. I am so emotional. I almost cried as she held me. I told her this morning that she could not have done more to make me feel better than this. Her spiraling LB balance jumped dramatically.

Well, so much for the rantings of an almost insane person.

C-

OW btw, I forgot something. I caught the W lurking on MB! She has promised not to read my posts for now. I think that this could be a good positive.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
C-

Today is not good so far. W is mad about our phone situation and cannot get over it. She told me she was cranky as it was that time of the month. Well, I understand. I am sitting here trying to finish SAA. This should be done tonight.

I have LB and if the W does not calm down, I will start that one tonight too. I would think that it is better to read at this point than argue. I really want tonight to be an argument free night.

Thanks for listening folks.

C-

This morning is bad. For reasons that I do not want to put down on a public website, I do not think this is going to work. I know that I think about it too much, but I sincerely doubt W sincerity in this process. I will keep trying but my guard is up and I am quickly losing faith. As I drove to work this morning, I realized that I do not need her in my life like I thought I did. I also realized, that I do not like her very much right now. I am really having a hard time over this. She thinks things are SOOOOO much better and that she is trying. I think things are getting worse and are about to implode.