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The way the taxation system works here, and with the various income sources she'll have now that I'm gone, she will only have to work enough to earn 526 a month to surpass my take home pay.

With the way our debts are divided, equal money means that she comes out way ahead.

Make sure you have your facts straight before passing judgement.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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Pam,

I don't know about there but around here CS is based on a percentage of your income and the number of children involved. There may also be spousal support required to be payed out for a period of time when once spouse makes considerably less than the other.

To agree to anything less would be foolish IMO, no disrespect intended. Slap may have you convinced that he is offering you a good deal when he may well be taking complete advantage of your ignorance and lack of control over the situation.

Don't let threats or warnings of expensive and ugly court proceedings stop you from taking control of your life. You cannot put a price on yours and your childrens lives. They are priceless.

As it stands now, you are only going to get from WH what he feels, in his opinion, is fair and he has made it clear that your opinion doesn't matter.


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I don't know about there but around here CS is based on a percentage of your income and the number of children involved.

Yes, it does. The chart would say that I should pay 475 a month which works out to 5700 per year. Currently, I am paying 5200 per year. The charts also allow that the amount s don't automatically apply when the payer has the children in excess of 40% of the time, which I do.

In other words, although I am paying less than the chart says, I am probably paying more than a court would make me pay.

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There may also be spousal support required to be payed out for a period of time when once spouse makes considerably less than the other.

Like I said, when all is taken into consideration, she brings about as much as I do. When her hours improve at work, she will make more.

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To agree to anything less would be foolish IMO, no disrespect intended.

Well, to spend money on lawyers would be foolish before exploring the option of the cost-free mediation services.

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As it stands now, you are only going to get from WH what he feels, in his opinion, is fair and he has made it clear that your opinion doesn't matter.

I'm perfectly willing to go to a mediator and have him or her decide if our arrangement is fair or not.

I have an issue with letting the courts mandate things such as custody and support issues. I would rather that we retain control over our kids' situations.

A court may say that they are with her full time or with me full time. Neither of us wants that. We can agree on most things. It's only the issue of money that has been a problem recently.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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The way the taxation system works here, and with the various income sources she'll have now that I'm gone, she will only have to work enough to earn 526 a month to surpass my take home pay.

With the way our debts are divided, equal money means that she comes out way ahead.

Pam could win a lottery or earn a million dollars a year and you would still be required to pay CS. The amount of money she earns or takes in does not relieve you of CS unless you have 50/50 shared custody and parental responsibilities.

She may also be entitled to other benefits of the marriage. Personal property, savings, pensions, etc. What about health and life insurance? What about day care? What about uninsured expenses such as braces for the kids? Who gets the car? How much is it worth?

Pam, don't let WH take you down this path. It's HIS path. Carve your own path.

Edited to add: Pam, some of the income sources you may be entitled to are due to the situation that you are now in. This 'additional' income or financial assistance in no way reduces the amount of support WH is required to pay. For instance, if you receive government assistance to help pay for rent or heat. It sounds like WH is trying to get you to believe that that type of income should reduce what he pays you. Don't fall for it.

Last edited by ba109; 02/08/06 12:57 PM.

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Pam could win a lottery or earn a million dollars a year and you would still be required to pay CS. The amount of money she earns or takes in does not relieve you of CS unless you have 50/50 shared custody and parental responsibilities.

Which we do. Or at least as close as is practical. I think the breakdown works out to 55/45 in her favor. Of course, that doesn't count times that I will be taking the kids to their activities on days that are "hers"

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She may also be entitled to other benefits of the marriage. Personal property,
There isn't much

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savings

nope

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pensions

My new pension plan started the week we broke up.

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What about health and life insurance?

As of right now, she is still covered under my plan

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What about day care?

We don't presently use it, but if the need arose we would work it out equitably

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What about uninsured expenses such as braces for the kids?

again, we'd have to cross that bridge when we came to it. My insurance would cover braces, but any uninsurable costs would have to be shared.

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Who gets the car? How much is it worth?

I have it. I owe more for it than it is worth, no equity there at all.

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It sounds like WH is trying to get you to believe that that type of income should reduce what he pays you. Don't fall for it.

No, what should reduce the CS is the fact that we have them about 50/50.

The point that I am making by showing how our incomes will be roughly equal is to demonstrate that it's not as STBX would portray, that I am rolling in money, while she is starving.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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Or at least as close as is practical. I think the breakdown works out to 55/45 in her favor.

Practical to whom?

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My new pension plan started the week we broke up.


Convenient, huh! You timed that just right. What about the RRSR Pam was discussing in her thread earlier?

What appears to be equitable to one (appears) to be with the consideration of how much government help mom can get. Ummmm.... Consider this, the Canadian Government didn't take her to Canada, or Marry her, or Get her pregnant. Ummmm... How then did they become responsible to support her? It seems the question of support might be of more importance if everyone stopped expecting a hand out from the government.

What is portrayed and by whom has always been determined by who's doing the portraying... ba has some good suggestions. Pam needs to make her own plan and stop relying on what has already proven to be unreliable.


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Practical to whom?

Both of us.

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Convenient, huh! You timed that just right.

I had nothing to do with the timing of when they started the pension.

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Consider this, the Canadian Government didn't take her to Canada, or Marry her, or Get her pregnant. Ummmm... How then did they become responsible to support her? It seems the question of support might be of more importance if everyone stopped expecting a hand out from the government.

Well, I'm not talking about social assistance here. I'm talking about money that all parents receive. Money that we were already getting. It will be recalculated now because of the different situation.

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Pam needs to make her own plan and stop relying on what has already proven to be unreliable.

We agreed to an amount of money and to having the kids on certain days. It is early yet, but I have lived up to that agreement 100%

That's not unreliable.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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I think you've mistaken compliance to agreement, Slap. Just because she agreed to your 'rules' does NOT mean
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We agreed to an amount of money and to having the kids on certain days. It is early yet, but I have lived up to that agreement 100%
. It means that her option wasn't up for negotiation. I doubt seriously your divying up time/money was in any way a balance for her desire to make the marriage work.

But... It really isn't my concern.


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...her option wasn't up for negotiation. I doubt seriously your divying up time/money was in any way a balance for her desire to make the marriage work.

Despite what people think, the desire to make the marriage work was always mine.

Nothing I ever asked from her was ever done. It was always "too hard". Driver's License, High School, Citizenship and getting her weight under control. All too hard. After 12 years, I give up.

The only option she was offering was the status quo. I just couldn't deal with that anymore.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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I think your actions after giving up is telling Slaps, yes Pam didn't do all those things that she should have done, some to make her life in another country easier, but and it's a big but the way you left and your actions as of now speaks loudly to all. Sorry not taking sides because the driving and the school thing Pam should have done for the kids, and you, but to leave the house with barely furnishing is shameful, Slaps you know this

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but to leave the house with barely furnishing is shameful, Slaps you know this

I only took 2 pieces of furniture, my dresser, and a kitchen table and chairs. Everything else belonged to my Mom. She offered some of it to STBX, but she refused. The table and chairs I didn't want because they are too big for the apartment. I asked her to keep them and use them temporarily while she saved up rather than going into debt to buy a new one.

Instead they sit in storage and STBX is spending money that she doesn't have.

She wouldn't have it.

What I am sorry for is sleeping with my date last weekend. It was not a mature thing to do and I regret doing it.

It's no excuse, but I think I overreacted to lonliness. Not just from the past few days, but from the last several years that I have felt completely alone despite living with W.

So I admit that I haven't handled everything very well since I left. However, I'm not the villian that I am portrayed to be, either.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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You do have the power to do right from this moment on Slaps, and no that does not mean going back but just please put your kids first, before any stranger and I mean that for the both you and Pam.

Your kids did not ask to be born into a disfuctional (SP?) marriage, and to learn lessons on how not to fix relatioships, and no that is not dig, but the reasons why we are all on this site, we learn what we see from our parents, let them see how you both can co-parent them, please both take the high road when dealing with each other.

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just please put your kids first, before any stranger and I mean that for the both you and Pam.

I wouldn't put strangers ahead of my kids. I haven't yet, and I wouldn't.

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Your kids did not ask to be born into a disfuctional marriage, and to learn lessons on how not to fix relatioships, and no that is not dig, but the reasons why we are all on this site, we learn what we see from our parents, let them see how you both can co-parent them, please both take the high road when dealing with each other.

We sheltered our kids from our disagreements which may or may not have been a disservice to them because they were caught off guard when they learned that we were splitting up.

My kids are absolutely a huge priority to me, despite what anyone thinks or says.

I am absolutely interested in taking the high road when it comes to the boys. To her credit, as angry as she is with me right now, I do not believe that she has been running me down to the boys. I wouldn't do that to her either.

We've also been cooperating when it comes to scheduling. Last Friday (my day) I didn't realize that they had no school. I had work, so she took them for the day. Yesterday (her day), they were sick and had to stay home, but she had things to do. I took them for the day, bought them medicine, and had them hang out with me so she was free to do her stuff.

It's not all as bad as some think. Not everything is going poorly.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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What I am sorry for is sleeping with my date last weekend. It was not a mature thing to do and I regret doing it.

That's it? What about joining a dating site to begin with. What about even going on a date with someone other than your W? Did you happen to tell your date mates that you are married with children?

Do you have any intention of righting these wrongs or are you going to continue to play bachelorwannabe? If you want to date, get a divorce.


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That's it? What about joining a dating site to begin with. What about even going on a date with someone other than your W? Did you happen to tell your date mates that you are married with children?

It was one person, and I told her that I am separated, but still married, yes.

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Do you have any intention of righting these wrongs or are you going to continue to play bachelorwannabe? If you want to date, get a divorce.

Well, now you're getting into the ethics of whether it's ok to date while separated. I would have no issue if STBX dates now.

There is a 1 yr wait before you can start divorce proceedings. And while the criticism for dating so soon may seem valid, I would not want to wait a whole year+ before I could feel free to date.

So the quick answer to your question is yes, I still intend to date.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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Well, now you're getting into the ethics of whether it's ok to date while separated. I would have no issue if STBX dates now.

There is a 1 yr wait before you can start divorce proceedings. And while the criticism for dating so soon may seem valid, I would not want to wait a whole year+ before I could feel free to date.

So the quick answer to your question is yes, I still intend to date


Sorry Slap but you should take that yr to work on yourself so the next relationship you enter into will be healthy, your reactions and interactions with Pam was not, and to go into another with out that work is just going to set you or your potential partner for a whirl of hurt.

Plus you might say yeah she can date now, but yo might not like it when it comes to pass.


Plus I don't get it why you want out of a marriage so bad but, want to go dating, really doesn't make sense to me.

Look my relationship right now is so toxic, that when I'm able to get on my feet and leave, it will be a long time before I even look at another man..... I need to find out who I'm coming out of a dysfunctional relationship, how to interact with the oppossite sex, it's almost like coming out of a coma and having to relearn everything over again, you are going to have the same neg. reactions with your new partner that you have with Pam.

You should wait for you will have the same probs with different partner.

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So the quick answer to your question is yes, I still intend to date.


Then all the more reason for Pam to get herself an attorney. Is it safe to assume that you are not sterile? The last thing you and Pam need thrown into the mix is an OC.


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Slap - you aren't presenting BOTH sides either. I would expect that Pam's version is skewed to her POV - but you try to represent your version as the only true version. We're not that stupid

Furthermore, you represent that you've been working on your marriage - the only one working on your marriage. As I see it, you've presented a case of selfish demands and love busters to your wife from YOUR POV. You constantly recite her failings as a wife...

Just forget it. I don't think any sensible person would believe a man who had kept his secret email away from his wife for the duration of his marriage to her really dealt with her openly or honestly or gave the marriage a fighting chance - ESPECIALLY when he broke his word on getting rid of his mother from the family dwelling many many times - as many times as Pam promised to lose weight...

Pam will probably find it easy to drop at least 50 pounds once you stop controlling her and allowing your mother free access to Pam's home!!!

Whew! You really tick me off with your illusions of Marriage Builder Granduer!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Sorry Slap but you should take that yr to work on yourself so the next relationship you enter into will be healthy, your reactions and interactions with Pam was not, and to go into another with out that work is just going to set you or your potential partner for a whirl of hurt.

Yes, I agree that there is some validity to what you are saying. I should qualify that I may date or I may not date. I'm not opposed to dating, but I'm rethinking seeking out someone to date for precisely that reason.


On this day I see clearly.
Everything has come to light.
A bitter place and a broken dream,
and we'll leave it all behind.
On this day its so real to me
Everything has come to life
Another chance to chase a dream
Another chance to feel
Chance to feel alive
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Slap, What did you offer her? Did you ever ask her how you were doing as a husband?
Cherished

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