This is my very first post. I have been reading for awhile and have not had the time to post my sitch yet. but I wanted to reply to this statement above.

This is exactly what I tell people when they can't believe I'm trying to work it out with my FWH. I tell them that I have two choices... I can go through the pain and healing and keep my family together and learn to trust my H again or I can go through the pain and healing and a divorce, and learn to trust a new man. I choose my FWH, my marriage, my children's father, our friends, our families, our home, our animals, and the life we have already built together. Either way, I am going to have to deal with what has happened with or without him in my life. I choose with him!!!! I learned to trust him once and I know I can again, this time with more wisdom and a little less naivete.

I will be posting my sitch soon and look forward to reading all of the wisdom and support you all have to offer.

InADaze...

First welcome to MB. I'm sure once you post your sitch you'll get greetings from the wiser MBers...but I"m happy you felt compelled to post on this thread.

I'm also very glad to see that you can relate to one of the reasons I posted.....

I found myself staying for different reasons throughout the stages of A and it's aftermath.

That might seem strange but it's true. When the pain hits me the most...I remind myself of the reason you pointed out. I hope you remain steadfast in your reasons to stay and I hope you find yourself in recovery very soon.


Top-Rope and Want2BeStrong -

I think the principles of MB are great reasons to stay in a marriage. I see this site and the people here as the reason I'm still married today. I was lost when I found this site and the people here. I can't imagine that I would've learned all the coping methods I've learned here in any books or by talking to my friends.

You have to find people who have been through this. Otherwise...all you hear is...leave him...what's wrong with you...once a cheater always a cheater...cut your losses...you know the drill.

Oh here's a doozy....in speaking to one of my very best and dearest friends in the world about my situation...she told me..."You better get out of there right now. He'll never change. He'll never walk out of the house without you worrying who he's screwing now. You'll never go to bed without feeling that pain and hurt. It never goes away."

What kind of friend is that?!?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

This is what I heard before I came to MB.

Want to be strong:

For what its worth:
All these conflicting emotions your feeling are par for the course.

MOST have felt this way & thought these types of thoughts at one stage or another.
Just KNOW that although they are disheartening, they too CAN be worked through.

Hang in there, the first year is the Hardest (IMO).
Not that the rest are easy .......but they are Easier in comparison.

**************
IN a Daze:

Just know that the beauty of MBers is that in the process of at least attempting to reconcile your marriage, you'll most likely save yourself.
IMO personal recovery is even MORE Important then the martial type.
(Save the stones people, I KNOW what board this is).

Cause truly all anyone can do is Promise you that these tools will give you the ability to give and Honest ATTEMPT at a recovery.

There are NO guarantees, as we can Never fully estimate what another person (your S) will or will not do.
However,
by at least working the system Given here, you'll at the very Least work through many of your Own Challenges and Issues that have come about in your Marriage.

With that said,
IMO this is your best shot at saving your M as well.
But that means doing more then just reading and posting on the discussion board.

Sure it has its place,
but the other information on the website (and books as well) are even more valuable.

Cause YOU need to get your own Plan going, that YOU can implement and work.
Hence you NEED to get the principles down Cold inside yourself & For Yourself.

These people are great support,
but ultimately its YOU that HAS to do the work.
Its your life, so arm yourself with as much Information as possible.

Come here for support, venting and then advice if your still not getting a concept.
Wishing you only success!

Top Rope is right...as usual...the more information you have the better.

I read every book I coulf find on As and monogamy...and relationships. Here are a few of the books that I read. I know there are others out there. Also, SAA and HNHN are excellent books. You can read about them on the site. I started SAA two days after D-Day. I found this site months later.

The Monogamy Myth

Not Just Friends

Affairs : A Guide to Working Through the Repercussions of Infidelity

Total Forgiveness

If you are in plan A you most certainly want to read this book:
The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate

I hope this helps.

book:

"Torn Asunder" --- by Dave Carder

Probably my single favorite ......although it does take more than one to get the full picture.

Some of the reasons I like it are:
Gets into the "message" of the A.
(Cause after all if you don't learn anything from it, its more then likely to be repeated, as well as MORE diffucult to heal from).

In addition,
I like the part about *WARNING* Not to Forgive too early.
(I seeee that happen waaaay too often on this board).

Also,
tells you that you HAVE to express your Hurt and Anger to your WS.
And other stuff like that.

How'd I forget that one. My H actually picked that one up at a weekend Marriage conference.

Excellent book.

I like the comments made above about working on yourself. I know this site is based on making Marriages work but you should also focus efforts on becoming a better person...the more content you are with yourself the better off your relationship will be.

I can't help wondering why staying with a lying cheat is considered "the right thing to do" when the bible specifies adultery as the only valid reason for divorce. One can say "it's right for me because...kids...economics...etc." but aside from that, rationale & common sense dictate otherwise. If he's truly a "soulmate" why did he choose to join with another thereby causing his "soulmate" unimaginable pain & heartbreak?

Yes, H says he's sorry for his choices & actions; yes, he wants to stay married (but is it for the sake of convenience & not wanting to lose our beloved house? Part of me believes it is); Yes, he's willingly doing the MB home study courses with me, but will he ever REALLY be trustworthy?

I agree with most of Dr. Harley's concepts, EXCEPT the bit that says infidelity "just happens." I believe that infidelity is a choice. One either chooses to be faithful or not. To say that "infidelity just happens" because "emotional needs were not being met" is a very lame excuse and puts a large part of the responsiblity and/or blame on the FAITHFUL spouse. If the same rationale was applied to criminals on trial it is doubtful the excuse would be as readily accepted as Dr. Harley's infidelity rationale is [supposed to be accepted/believed.]

To be quite honest, if H & I still owned our own individual homes, as we did for the first eight years of our relationship, there is no question in my mind that "we" would be history. Our entire relationship has been built upon a foundation of lies. Early on we discussed his "platonic relationship" (think: emotional affair) with his ex-w, and early on he promised to end it - told me he HAD ended it - but it continued for the duration of our 11 year relationship and would STILL be ongoing if it hadn't been discovered, the latter to which H readily agrees. OUCH!

So, although he's making an outward attempt to make things "right" (ONLY because he was caught being "naughty") I'm not so sure I'll ever really be able to love him as I once did because there is too much hurt in the way.

I soooo wish I still owned my own home because I keep thinking "I want to go home" but "my" home is "our" home and there simply is nowhere else to go.

Someone mentioned the issue of uncertainty in the event of separation/divorce, but isn't there always going to be a level of uncertainty when staying with a lying cheat of a spouse? If he did it before is there REALLY any guarantee that he won't do it again, only perhaps this time being more careful so as not to be caught?

Thank you Heroswife and TopRope for the reading suggestions.
Reading books and message boards is all I do in my spare time. I have read many books and firmly believe that is what has given me the strength and patience to deal with this situation.

I am actually halfway through Not Just Friends right now and will be starting SAA soon. I have also read many MLC books, Divorce Busting, Divorce Remedy, 5 Love Languages, His Needs Her Needs and many others. You both mentioned a couple of books I have not heard of so I will be looking into those also.

We are actually in recovery now, I never had to go to Plan B. I actually had been doing a great Plan A without even knowing thats what I was doing. He went NC with OW on 1/16/06 and has had pretty intense withdrawal on and off for the entire 3 weeks. He seems to be coming out of the fog gradually. I will try to post my entire sitch sometime today or this weekend.

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions.

Anngelica -

I think you are hurting so bad right now you cannot see beyond the pain of it all.

You have faced a terrible injustice and by someone that you trusted - which makes the injustice so much harder to deal with.

I think As happen for different reasons. Some happen out of addiction (sexual) or an addiction to the search for attention. In my situation I think the root of the problem came from a variety of reasons. Things were changing dramatically for our family during that time. I take responsibility for not being there for my H emotionally.

That is still no excuse for him to run around. It was so hard for me to get over my anger. I wanted to know how in the world he could ever move his entire family to his lover's neighborhood in another state. I was fortunate to be able to keep my job and just work from home...but there was a chance that I might not have a job. So he moved us up here...away from all of our friends and family so that he could be with her.

That was his full intent....he came here to work for her...in the same office. He even tried to find us a house on her street. How sick and sadistic is that? But here I am 2 years later....right down the road from this woman...ran into her yesterday as a matter of fact. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I say all of this to let you know that you can overcome the pain you feel now and go on to have an excellent relationship with your H....but you have to decide to do that.

Keep this in mind.....if you stay or go is your decision. No one elses! You have to live with decision. If your reasons for staying are economic or just because it feels safe...it's your choice.

If you leave because you believe he will never change and will go on to hurt you again.......it's your decision.

The people on this board will provide the proof you need to see that the steps here work but you have to decide to want to work it out.

And you'll waiver from wanting to go and wanting to stay...I think that's the nature of the beast. Deciding to stay doesn't mean it doesn't hurt or you won't have outburst and LB.

I know I was the Queen of all Love Busters in the beginning. I was so confused and hurt and depressed and very pissed off. I still get mad.

When I saw OW yesterday I wanted to throw my car in park, jump out and flexi cuff her to my bumper. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> But I didn't...instead of showing a reaction I pretended not to have a reaction...then I cried...then I forgave her once again. I used to start my day with forgiving her, myself and my H. Now I don't have to do that...but I do it when I feel the hurt.

I might be considered crazy by some...but this is what works for me. Hopefully we will be moving soon and I won't have to ever see her again. Until then...if I do have to face her I will be able to hold my head up high and know that I'm doing the right thing...for me, my faith and my H.

BTW - MB teaches that you should move away if you live close to the OP. We've been trying for 2 years to leave this place.

So do you want to stay and try to work it out? Do you love your H enough to try to work through this pain?

One more note:

While it is your decision to stay or leave...you are NOT the only one that has work to do. Your H has to join the team now and work too.

You have to work together. He has to understand that you aren't always going to be the Plan A Queen...you will fudge and LB from time to time....You should try to avoid as much as possible but I think to go into this thinking that you must always remain calm is unrealistic.

If you try and he doesn't...then you have no regrets...you know you've done all you could do.

Your H's treatment of you will often determine your mood in the stage you are currently in.

Talk to him about this...decide on a plan ahead of time...before you run into trigger or have a melt down. I know it seems weird but this is the best thing I could have ever done.

I just told my H...this is going to happen and when it does it will pass but during this time I need you to understand and help me through it....not get mad and scream at me.

The first few times...it didn't work...but after a while he realized that it really would end...much much faster if he would hold me and tell me how sorry he was.

So do you want to stay and try to work it out? Do you love your H enough to try to work through this pain? [/quote]

Sometimes I want to stay, other times I want to be as far away from him as possible.

Our situation is unique (aren't they all) in that as a firefighter he works a 24 hr shift, then has three full days off, working only every forth day, making it extremely easy and convenient for H & OW to contact each other. She called him @ work, he called her cell phone, and, well...

I seem to be developing a pattern of falling into depression when he's at work (Gee, I wonder why?) It's almost as if every time he goes to work I have to wonder if they've contacted each other and picked up where they left off. After all, he lied about their involvement for 11 years. He's been a FF since graduating high school and knows nothing else; his father was a FF, as were his uncles, blah, blah, blah. After 26 years he won't change careers. His ex-W (OW) doesn't live in the same town but is located between our home & the firehouse, and she works just one town over from the firehouse. I don't run into her (thank goodness!) but she's still just a phone call away and much too close for MY comfort level.

[There's supposed to be a quote from your msg here, but I can't figure out how2 insert it! LOL]
I give you a LOT of credit for handling the situation of running into OW. I would have wanted to run her down! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Maybe it's too early for me to make a postive list of "reasons to stay & work on it." Even buying a Valentine's Day card yesterday was difficult. The cards were all so lovey and I simply hate to give a card that says something I don't feel or believe. I ended up with a card that spoke about his good looks, because he IS rather handsome. There's a reason to stay! We are extremely physically attracted to each other! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Chatting via the MB message boards with other like-minded individuals who can understand my pain is helpful beyond words. It would also be helpful to have a network of friends who are familar with the MB concepts. The few who have been made aware of our situation tend to stay away. Do people believe that infidelity is a transmitted disease? LOL

Sorry if this msg doesn't really belong here. Thanks for listening! Replies welcome!

Anngellica -

I think you are in the right frame of mind....I think you are a little confused about how you are 'supposed' to feel right now.

Am I close or waaaaayyyyy off base?!?!

I think what you should understand is that you are on an emotional roller coaster and it is OK to go from one extreme to another...randomly and for no reason at all. I became frustrated with myself when I wasn't able to "let it go" right when I decided to stay.

[color:"red"]I became a MAD WOMAN during this time. [/color] One minute I was happy...the next I was crying...the next I was frisbee'n a cereal bowl at his head (thank God I missed). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Do you see what I'm saying here? There is no script...you will handle the situation differently than others.

The key is...you have to put forth the effort to meet your H's ENs. The fact that you bought him a card is great! You have to take baby steps...and with each step you need to feel a sense of accomplishment!

I saw my baby steps as a show of my strength. I would remind myself...most people quit...most people give up....most people away....most people would be defeated....I can do this...i can make it. Mind you I'd have these conversations in my head while crumpled in a ball on the floor of my bathroom. (yes I was that bad..and I am not proud of that)

I refused to be defeated. I knew my H was truly sorry for the situation. I saw his efforts and I found little things to lift me up.

I'm not sure if you want to...but look at some of my older posts...from 2004...you'll see my dispair...It's humilitating now...for me to see how difficult it was for the people here to convince me to expose...I fought it left and right. I think you'll see that our struggles are similar.

As for the unique side of your situation...you have to look beyond those constraints. Your H will have to be open to you. If you need to get a detailed report of all local calls made to and from your home phone to feel secure...call your local phone company. There will be a charge for this...but you won't need it for long. If you need him to call you hourly....tell him...it can't hurt. What can he do to help you right now? Think about it and tell him. Get him on board. He has to regain your trust.

I asked my H to hold me everynight...regardless of how pissed off I was. I told him 'there will be times when I want to go to bed angry....don't let me...hold me...even when i push you away...hold me.' Believe it or not he did it! It was hard to push him away knowing that I'd told him to do it.

You said there were cell phones involved. Start by changing his number. Call the cell company and have her numbers blocked. I work in the telco industry....and this is very possible. Just call your carrier and tell them what you want. Have her numbers blocked from both your home and his cell phone. Also, get a detailed call report emailed to you...or sign up for online billing and go in and check often. I did this forever...until one day it was just too much effort and I never found one call.

Do you have access to all of his email accounts? If not....get him to give you his passwords....if you need to take the hardrive to work with you when he's not at work...I'll show you have to remove it.

You have to put some thought into this....what do you need to do to feel safe again?

Maybe it's silly...maybe it's extreme for others reading here...but I believe you have control of the situation and you can do a great deal to help yourself.

I hope this helps you. I promise...you can survive this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Heroswife:

Thank you so much. You are soooo right on target! To say I'm on an emotional roller coaster is an understatement and its comforting to know that others understand, even if I don't complete understand it, or like it for that matter.

You've given me some very good advice. I'm pleased to report that I've blocked her number from our home phone. Our phone system won't allow us to block cell phone numbers from our home land line, which totally stinks, but since I'm not sure she called our home that doesn't bother me as much as the fact that staff @ the firehouse is very loyal to H and refuse to inform me if OW calls there. I also tried having numbers blocked on our cell phones but per Cingular it's not a feature they offer, which is difficult to believe in this age of technology.

Luckily for me H is computer illiterate and has no idea that I know his email password. You KNOW I check his email from time to time, and so far, so good. He does not have computer access @ work so there's one less thing to waste time wondering or worrying about - thank goodness! If he decides he wants to own a laptop PC than I'll know to be concerned.

On Sunday, as hard as it was, I shared my work-related depression issue with H. He assured me once again that he will never, ever do that again because of all the hurt it caused, blah, blah, blah, but I seem to need something more than his word, since he didn't keep his word previously. I really don't know what would make me feel more secure while he's @ work, but I must figure something out because being depressed every forth day naturally has a negative effect on me, and then when he's home we need to back-track a bit to get to where we were.

His efforts definitely show, and they're appreciated, and sometimes they're enough, but sometimes I feel I need more. One area in which we lack is Recreational Companionship. We discussed this on Sunday as well. Unfortunately, H has very few interests while I would like to experiment with new things as well as engage in old. I believe the fact that he enjoys himself a great deal @ work makes his need for Recreational Companionship MUCH less than mine. The guys work @ the firehouse, but they also joke, play & laugh an aweful lot, so his need for fun is well taken care of @ work, and I'm not even referring to his former extracurricular activities. (I see growth here! Usually the latter would be the first thing that comes to mind!)

We've completed the Recreational Activities questionnaire and came up with very few things we both enjoy. I surfed the MB Website as well as the internet for several hours last week & came up with a long list of possible activies, but he expressed interest in only one item listed. I wish he'd be more open to doing more things. Since we're supposed to enthusiastically agree to do whatever, I feel I shouldn't try to push him, and he's just not interested in most things. We definitely need help in this area.

More later...
Anngellica

Ok...not much time to post but I HAD to say something now:

You found ONE thing! That's a step....that's one thing you know you can do together. Jump all over it...don't wait another minute...start now. I promise he'll 'catch' your enthusiasm if you show him how much it means to you.

You sound defeated a bit...but you need to see this as a WIN for you and your marriage.

As for the not being able to block numbers with Cingular...I'm calling them out on this. Of course you can block numbers. It's simple.

Have you called them? If so, what did they say? What kind of phone do you have? (I work in the telcom industry...so I have some inside understanding of how this all works.)

If they say that you can't block the number ask what they will do when you send them a copy of the restraining order you have...doesn't matter if it's true or not....they can block numbers. Trust me.

OK...more later. You sound good and I'm glad you are doing so well.

Anngellica -

I hope you are well today. I came back this morning to post more of what I wanted to say yesterday but did not have time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I really think you are looking at this situation in a defeated manner. You can't be like that! You have to be the leader in this situation. It's not fair...but it's the way it has to be for now if you want to save your marriage.

So grab onto that ONE thing with dear life and make it work for you. Maybe you could also try things that neither of you ever really thought you'd like...maybe cooking....or something silly like roller blading...who knows. Just try things until you find something that works.

Also, I did a little research about your cell phone. I think you can block the number. So when you get a chance post to me the answers to the quesitons I posted previously and I'll help you.

Or a more simple solution might be to just change the number! There might be a slight charge but it's eaily done. And it will give your H a chance to show you how much he cares for you...albeit a small chance...but it's still effort. And make sure you have detailed billing. I know Cingular offers online billing so you can just view the bills on the web monthly...they aren't loaded real time. I think Alltel might load records real-time. ????

So tell me how are you doing today? Did you have a good V-Day?

I called Cingular and was told by their customer service rep that call blocking is a service they do not offer. My phone is a Samsung X427. It's two years old, I know only because our two year contract recently expired. Is it really that they can't or is it a limitation of our phones? We both have Samsung X427.

Of course, I may not even be able to find her numbers. H had three numbers for her (home, work, mobile) in his planner/calendar. Her ABBREVIATED surname was listed among his co-workers so as to render it unrecognizable. I hadn't even known her surname until after the fact. Later, when I looked again I realized she WAS listed. After discovery he used red marker to cross out the numbers, but they were still legible if one really wanted to read them...but I left it alone. Then, when he bought a 2006 planner/calendar, instead of copying the list of numbers to the new planner like he does every year, he tore out the page from the 2005 planner and stuck it into the 2006 planner. I assume by doing this he thought he could still have her numbers without actually being accused of purposing writing them in the new planner. Soooo, the loose page mysteriously found it's way to my shredder. However, in my rage at the time of discovery I MAY have written her numbers elsewhere. I have her address, of that I'm certain, so I may have her numbers as well. When I find them I shall call Cingular back & mention the restraining order. If we need to buy new phones that's what we'll do. Going to read your next post...

Anngellica -

I looked up your phone on the web and you cannot do it at the phone level. Something has to be added in the switch. I can't imagine that Cingular can't do this...They can, they just don't want to...for whatever reasons. I'll keep looking around.

Maybe you should just the numbers. Make sure you get call detailed billing so you can monitor the call logs.

You'll only need to do this for a little while to prove to yourself that the calls aren't happening...then maybe spot check from time to time.

I never look at call logs anymore.

Heroswife:

She calls him @ his place of employment; she remembers the numbers from when they were married I'm sure. It's the only job he's had since high school. He called her mobile phone mostly, and sometimes her work. According to H, she doesn't have his mobile phone # and yes, I have checked our Cingular statements, LOTS of them. I found nothing. She obviously called him exclusively @ his work. I confided in the secretary @ the firehouse hoping she'd be willing to help by letting me know if/when females besides myself call him, but she refused. Like I said, firehouse loyalties run deep.

I'm afraid I put a damper on V-Day last night. The gift H ordered for me via mail-order hadn't arrived. The card he gave me yelled "OW!". It's me, I know, but sometimes I can't help it. The card said things like "...only one for me..." and "...only one who shares my deepest thoughts..." and "...only one in my heart...." Naturally my mind went a bit nuts and I said things like "so Joan and I have DIFFERENT private places in your heart?" I shed a few tears and he was actually pretty good about it. Intead of getting huffy like he used to he tried to reassure me that he meant every word the card said, that it took a long time to find the perfect card that said what he wanted it to, etc. I can't the fact that I doubt him but in the end I was able to let it go. What did you guys do to celebrate?

I wish I could view HER mobile phone log; AND the firehouse phone logs. I'm pathetic, aren't I? But all I have is his word, and he lied before, and kept it up for a very long time. Proof would make me feel so much better.

Our V-Day was quiet...we had a nice family dinner and then went out for ice cream.

I'm starting to teach a sculping class at my gym and my H helped me on my routine last night. It was fun to just laugh with each other...I'm nervous about the routine and he gave me some great ideas. We exchanged gifts the night before...we are such children and couldn't wait!

Well the fact that the secretary refused to share info with you does surprise me....she's probably worried about causing a rift in her job. Don't think about it at all!

As for the call logs....if you haven't found anything so far you probably won't find anything moving forward.

I hate to say this but you are going to have to trust your H and give him a chance to prove to you that he can trust you.

Regardless of what you can track and can't track...if he wants to contact her he will...you can't stop him.

That's a hard thing to swallow I know. And by saying you have to trust him...I don't mean you have to deny your gut feelings. I know that doesn't make much sense...I am really at a loss for words on how to explain that.

In my situation my H continue to work with OW...for months and months...in a very small office and there was lots of contact. I called my H about every hour and he called me as well. We traded emails a lot and that's what it took to make me feel better. I hated every minute of that time...he eventually was able to leave that job (we are military so you can't just quit). So now he works on the same post as her but they are far far apart and never have any reason to come into contact. To be honest my H is disgusted by her....and for that I'm glad.

So on the days that you H is at work...establish a pattern of contact with him...tell him you need regular contact. It'll empower him to do something to make you feel better. right now he probably feels powerless over the situation...so help him help you!

That's so Jerry McGuire...but it's true. My H bent over backwards during this time and that's what it took to make me believe him. I often wondered how horrible it would be if he didn't trip over his own feet to prove he was sorry and that he loved me. It wasn't always that way...not until I exposed to her H.

Anyway, enough about me. How are you feeling today? Are you working on you? Are you trying to think of ways to bring you guys closer together?